Serious ? To OW/OM

[13Hearts]

I'm not fully NC; just limited contact. We text about mundane things every once in a while and he helps me with some business things, or if I need some business type advice. I cut him off long ago, just a few months into the relationship, when he didn't leave his BW as he had said he would. I've known him a very long time, a few years ago he pursued me, hard, for about three months, during which time he was adamant that his marriage was over, we were going to have a life together, blah blah blah, all the usual BS you read on here. I was intimate and heavily involved with him for about four months, until I realized he was making excuses and not serious, in complete denial of the truth (which I could plainly see), and blames everyone but himself for not living in concert with what comes out of his mouth. He pursued me hard for years afterward, and spent a lot of money on me. Money he could have been spending on his wife, but doesn't care to. I think she is like his mother; that's the sense I get, and that he is acting out against her because that's the way he sees her. It's weird.

 

It still hurts, yes, but not because he's a great catch and I'm in love with him. It hurts for the same reason every break-up I've ever had hurt: Because they lie, they misrepresent themselves and their intentions, and they do the most hurtful things that make me realize just how selfish and self-centered they are. It really is not worth it, and no, I don't trust them, for all the reasons stated on this and all the other threads here. I think they use image and the crap that comes out of their mouths as SMOKESCREENS, hiding the truth, denying the truth, and scapegoating everyone they can so that they NEVER have to look at themselves and mature, evolve, or change themselves. Why bother bettering yourself when you can just use others to your own enjoyment and benefit?

 

Anyway, I don't feel like I've "lost out," or that he chose someone else over me, or that I'm missing out on anything. The more I do continue to speak with him or text him, the more negative and toxic I realize he is. The "man" uses money and his standing in his profession to attract other women and try to hook them into the sick game he calls his life. I pride myself on the fact that although my heart fell for all the lies, my brain didn't, and it didn't let him convince me I am crazy, at fault, or paranoid.

 

Men who cheat on their wives are a55e5. Affairs with MM are such a waste of time. An affair of four months gobbled up a good three years of my life. And for what?? Mornings, nights, entire days, and weekends TEXTING. Letting him take over my life so that I can meet his needs.

 

Throw me bone.

Edited May 30, 2016 by 13Hearts

[lilacwine]

I'm not fully NC; just limited contact. We text about mundane things every once in a while and he helps me with some business things, or if I need some business type advice. I cut him off long ago, just a few months into the relationship, when he didn't leave his BW as he had said he would. I've known him a very long time, a few years ago he pursued me, hard, for about three months, during which time he was adamant that his marriage was over, we were going to have a life together, blah blah blah, all the usual BS you read on here. I was intimate and heavily involved with him for about four months, until I realized he was making excuses and not serious, in complete denial of the truth (which I could plainly see), and blames everyone but himself for not living in concert with what comes out of his mouth. He pursued me hard for years afterward, and spent a lot of money on me. Money he could have been spending on his wife, but doesn't care to. I think she is like his mother; that's the sense I get, and that he is acting out against her because that's the way he sees her. It's weird.

 

It still hurts, yes, but not because he's a great catch and I'm in love with him. It hurts for the same reason every break-up I've ever had hurt: Because they lie, they misrepresent themselves and their intentions, and they do the most hurtful things that make me realize just how selfish and self-centered they are. It really is not worth it, and no, I don't trust them, for all the reasons stated on this and all the other threads here. I think they use image and the crap that comes out of their mouths as SMOKESCREENS, hiding the truth, denying the truth, and scapegoating everyone they can so that they NEVER have to look at themselves and mature, evolve, or change themselves. Why bother bettering yourself when you can just use others to your own enjoyment and benefit?

 

Anyway, I don't feel like I've "lost out," or that he chose someone else over me, or that I'm missing out on anything. The more I do continue to speak with him or text him, the more negative and toxic I realize he is. The "man" uses money and his standing in his profession to attract other women and try to hook them into the sick game he calls his life. I pride myself on the fact that although my heart fell for all the lies, my brain didn't, and it didn't let him convince me I am crazy, at fault, or paranoid.

 

Men who cheat on their wives are a55e5. Affairs with MM are such a waste of time. An affair of four months gobbled up a good three years of my life. And for what?? Mornings, nights, entire days, and weekends TEXTING. Letting him take over my life so that I can meet his needs.

 

Throw me bone.

 

How did he spend "a lot" of money on you?? Buying your expensive gifts?

[OneLov]

When dealing with ambiguous loss and disenfranchised grief, I don't believe the focus should be seeking a resolution for a person to heal. Most experts suggest the focus should be building resilience as a way to cope with the loss and unresolved grief.

[PinkSunset]

I am LC right now but he recently moved out of their house and into his own place so I have hope. Events over the weekend have brought more contact between us but I am trying to stay strong and stay LC until his separation agreement is complete.

[NewLeaf512]

When dealing with ambiguous loss and disenfranchised grief, I don't believe the focus should be seeking a resolution for a person to heal. Most experts suggest the focus should be building resilience as a way to cope with the loss and unresolved grief.

 

Part of my healing is about some repair of my professional reputation.

[OneLov]

Part of my healing is about some repair of my professional reputation.

 

I believe that a loss of professional reputation is an ambiguous loss because you cannot easily quantify the perceived loss of it. Thus, a solution is not easily identifiable. The best thing you can do is accept you cannot change what happened and move forward. You must invest in the belief that if you do that, your professional reputation will be restored. Look at the judiciary appointment and recent offer as demonstrative evidence.

[13Hearts]

How did he spend "a lot" of money on you?? Buying your expensive gifts?

 

Yes. Gifts, furniture and things for my house, televisions, appliances, some jewelry, stuff like that. I think it was his way of trying to convince me that he was serious about his claims that we were going to have this wonderful life together, that he was in it for the long haul. Nevermind that I didn't need him to PAY FOR things (although it was nice to have the help), and really just want a partner to do things with after long days at work and on weekends and holidays.

 

I've found that most men are this way. They give you what they decide will get them what THEY want, not what you tell them you want or need. After having been in so many romantic relationships, I realized that's what it is for men: "What do I need to do in order to get what I want?" You have to be willing and able to stand your ground with them and insist on them putting your needs first. Then once they've done that, you have to be willing to accept that he will continue to seek out and apply his energy and resources to getting what he wants. If that includes other women, well, that's what he'll go after. Sad, maybe cynical, but that's been my experience. I've learned I have to get my needs met outside of romantic relationships, which means I take care of my own needs and do not expect a man to do so, because I am going to be disappointed and hurt if I expect to get my needs met from a relationship.

[Onlywhenitrains]

I ended the affair mid-March, but ran into him about a month later at the store parking lot, and he came by my place that evening. We talked and he tried to convince me to continue with A. I said that we were finished. It's been NC since.

 

It's still too early, and I can see that healing will take time. I do not feel that I lost faith in men and relationships in general. I really hope I'll meet someone who will love me and be with me, not as dirty secret but in an open and loving relationship. I'm not ready for that now, and I know it. But, hope to get there sooner rather than later.

[m4p]

Its been 15 months for me. Yay.

 

I had a very hard time up till around the 6-8 months mark. It was really a very painful process physically and mentally it took a toll on me. To give up on him and to come to terms with the end of everything. I was left a shadow of myself.

 

After that however- is an evolving story. It's refreshing to now reach a stage of mostly detachment and neutrality WRT xmm. It's not about closure or seeing the affair for what it is or even hating him etc; to me all those still requires some form of strong emotions. I just simply do not care anymore.

 

That happened around the 9-12 months mark. I was slowly rebuilding my life, a life that's less consumed by the thoughts of him and us.

 

I haven't update much here because there is nothing to update. I lurk though, reading all the new threads and feeling like I've survived the worst and so can "you".

 

One thing I thought I should mention though, at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, is that I am in very LC with xmm. Just random short phone calls here and there (maybe once a month?), gossiping about our mutual ex colleagues, updates about lives etc. Rather superficial but quite cheerful and funny, just like how I talk to most of my acquaintances/friends. I have ZERO intention or interest to go back to something- anything- no doubt about that. Im permanently scarred and the PTSD of the A makes me recoil. Neither does he that im pretty sure too. As laughable as it sounds, it feels platonic, so being "friends" is not entirely impossible despite what I thought? Having said that I'm not pursuing any friendship or whatever, that takes efforts and I don't have any time or energy to spare for that.

 

Okay I'm NOT gonna start up a debate on this friendship after A thing. I still think that it's a recipe for disaster though for most if not handled properly. I think in my instance, it's probably just gonna fade away like many of my half hearted friendships over the years.

 

I'm not 100% healed, doubt I'll ever be, but now I know what I want and don't want in my life. I'm hopeful, in a good place in my career and kinda just enjoying life as it goes along... Lots of travelling, I had 5 vacations this year so far.

 

All in all, not too bad for someone that was a pathetic sniveling mess 1 year ago.

[NewLeaf512]

I believe that a loss of professional reputation is an ambiguous loss because you cannot easily quantify the perceived loss of it. Thus, a solution is not easily identifiable. The best thing you can do is accept you cannot change what happened and move forward. You must invest in the belief that if you do that, your professional reputation will be restored. Look at the judiciary appointment and recent offer as demonstrative evidence.

 

I could write an algo to prove it, but here's some imperial evidence

 

I was the senior in one of the most famous chambers in the world. I walked in and rendered a resignation with immediate affect due to "pressing personal reasons" had to do the case handover from home, and I had a 6 month notice period which I had to cover out of pocket. Since no one with any reputation would do such a thing without being under extreme duress it was assumed and considered that I'd had a nervous breakdown. I was unable to find a job anywhere which is preposterous for someone of my capabilities and reputation and it was only because a former Justice that had been my lecturer at one time reached his mandatory retirement and pulled every string he could to get a majority vote to get me appointed that I am in employment today.

 

If I seen a bit steamed up it is because as an attorney yourself that integrity, conduct and reputation make up a substantial factor in the faith of your ability as well as your trial record. So I feel your post is meant to be inflammatory. Can you clarify?

[Popsicle]

Newleaf hi!!!!!! So good to see you!!! I saw your name on the home page and couldn't resist coming here to chat with you. I see that you are managing okay but wondering what gives.

 

To answer your question, I was far, far, far from over him at the one year mark. xMM and I first met in March of 2012. Of course it was doomed from the start (which I knew but denied) but I had moments of great hope and the extreme highs and lows lasted for the first year. The rest of that time afterwards was just hanging on to the memories, I guess. All I thought about was him everyday all the way up until I met someone else. I would have thought about him for longer too had I not met someone else yet. Maybe I would have thought about him for years and years! I had to get to the point where I was ready to meet someone else and to replace him though. Yes, replace him. Now I don't think about xMM at all unless a song comes on that reminds me of him, which actually happened a couple of weeks ago, and it made me cry, but not because I missed him but because it brought back all the sad memories I had of how I felt so second class and unimportant and just pathetic. I hate that I went through that and will never put myself through that again. Live and learn, I guess.

 

Anyway, I'm just glad to see you staying strong, NL, and please know that it will get better. <3

[Popsicle]

Im permanently scarred and the PTSD of the A makes me recoil.

 

OMG that is so true!

But I only feel that way towards married/taken men, not towards single men.

[OneLov]

I could write an algo to prove it, but here's some imperial evidence

 

I was the senior in one of the most famous chambers in the world. I walked in and rendered a resignation with immediate affect due to "pressing personal reasons" had to do the case handover from home, and I had a 6 month notice period which I had to cover out of pocket. Since no one with any reputation would do such a thing without being under extreme duress it was assumed and considered that I'd had a nervous breakdown. I was unable to find a job anywhere which is preposterous for someone of my capabilities and reputation and it was only because a former Justice that had been my lecturer at one time reached his mandatory retirement and pulled every string he could to get a majority vote to get me appointed that I am in employment today.

 

If I seen a bit steamed up it is because as an attorney yourself that integrity, conduct and reputation make up a substantial factor in the faith of your ability as well as your trial record. So I feel your post is meant to be inflammatory. Can you clarify?

 

Not sure why you feel that way; I was trying to be supportive. I'm not making light of the situation or suggest you pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I was giving practical advice on how to deal with ambiguous loss and the unresolved grief that is a result thereof.

 

The psychology for healing from an ambiguous loss is much different than ordinary loss. It's a very difficult process. But the focus is not on the person "getting over it." How can you get over something or someone where you have no closure or tangible loss to grieve? So the focus becomes on surviving the loss and building resiliency so you do not become consumed by it.

 

I'm not trivializing your pain. I understand how awful the situation is for you on both a personal and professional level. I can relate to the feelings of hopelessness and uncertainty.

 

Ambiguous Loss

[Poppy47]

Not sure why you feel that way; I was trying to be supportive. I'm not making light of the situation or suggest you pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I was giving practical advice on how to deal with ambiguous loss and the unresolved grief that is a result thereof.

 

The psychology for healing from an ambiguous loss is much different than ordinary loss. It's a very difficult process. But the focus is not on the person "getting over it." How can you get over something or someone where you have no closure or tangible loss to grieve? So the focus becomes on surviving the loss and building resiliency so you do not become consumed by it.

 

I'm not trivializing your pain. I understand how awful the situation is for you on both a personal and professional level. I can relate to the feelings of hopelessness and uncertainty.

 

 

Ambiguous Loss

Thank you so much for the information about ambiguous loss.

 

It clarified a lot for me. You are correct... how do you grieve for a love which in reality was never there ? There can be no family or public grieving over the end of an affair because nobody else knows.

 

Being NC has played tricks on my mind... I feel I have never known xMM. I sometimes wonder if I imagined what happened for 7 years. It is all surreal.

 

Since going completely NC after such a long time, I have had lapses of memory, and considerable loss of identity.

 

I know I need to become stronger, seek other interests to fill my mind and find my way back to some kind of truth about my life.

 

Poppy.

[lilacwine]

 

Being NC has played tricks on my mind... I feel I have never known xMM. I sometimes wonder if I imagined what happened for 7 years. It is all surreal.

 

.

 

Wow, i feel the exact same way about him now. We were together for a year and a half. I feel like I don't know who he is anymore. Thinking of him now brings utmost confusion and doubt. As if the person I loved had never existed. I feel it was a sweet dream combined with nightmare conjured by my imagination. Seems very very unreal. Such distinct difference when I look back at it as compared to other "normal" past relationships. Affair is such a hideous demon. No wonder it's one of the greatest sins. Now I feel like I'm being punished for my sin.

Edited June 1, 2016 by lilacwine

[SweetiePi]

My EA had fizzled out about a month ago (IMO). I sense he has pulled back on me emotionally, but he insists the only wedge between him and I has been his crazy (2 full time jobs) work schedule. We have settled into a good friendship and no more flirting etc. We are not NC as we are obligated to see each other once a month as well each week for a sport we joined together. When I have backed off with him and said I would not show one week cause I needed some space, he took it as I wanted to end the friendship. The chemistry is still there (limerence?) and often times I feel anxiety with him -knots in my stomach, can't eat. Wishing I had avoided him longer than the year I did... first time meeting him I knew there was something there; so did he. He is a genuine, kind, understanding man - has never future faked, made promises or lied to me. Maybe as years pass we will not have such a close friendship. If he were an a$$, I could move on and not think much about him, but at this point I am not over him. I still love him and he occupies my thoughts. Does this get any easier?

 

 

If your A ended (any reason) and you are NC, how long has it been and are you over AP?

[elaine567]

If he were an a$$, I could move on and not think much about him, but at this point I am not over him. I still love him and he occupies my thoughts. Does this get any easier?

 

Not as long as you continue the EA under the guise of "friendship".

[SweetiePi]

I'm not continuing the EA. We both genuinely care for each other as friends and want the best for each other. My future is with my H. There is no possible present or future for him and I. We are both intelligent enough to know and accept that.

 

 

Not as long as you continue the EA under the guise of "friendship".

[lemondrop21]

Newleaf hi!!!!!! So good to see you!!! I saw your name on the home page and couldn't resist coming here to chat with you. I see that you are managing okay but wondering what gives.

 

To answer your question, I was far, far, far from over him at the one year mark. xMM and I first met in March of 2012. Of course it was doomed from the start (which I knew but denied) but I had moments of great hope and the extreme highs and lows lasted for the first year. The rest of that time afterwards was just hanging on to the memories, I guess. All I thought about was him everyday all the way up until I met someone else. I would have thought about him for longer too had I not met someone else yet. Maybe I would have thought about him for years and years! I had to get to the point where I was ready to meet someone else and to replace him though. Yes, replace him. Now I don't think about xMM at all unless a song comes on that reminds me of him, which actually happened a couple of weeks ago, and it made me cry, but not because I missed him but because it brought back all the sad memories I had of how I felt so second class and unimportant and just pathetic. I hate that I went through that and will never put myself through that again. Live and learn, I guess.

 

Anyway, I'm just glad to see you staying strong, NL, and please know that it will get better. <3

 

Popsicle - when you "replaced him" as you say, were you totally out of the A at that time? Just curious, I like reading about how different people manage to finally end these things for good..

[lemondrop21]

I'm not continuing the EA. We both genuinely care for each other as friends and want the best for each other. My future is with my H. There is no possible present or future for him and I. We are both intelligent enough to know and accept that.

I'm just confused about what part of what you posted does NOT constitute an EA... if your husband knew about your continued friendship with this man, would he be uncomfortable? If so, then it's an EA I'm sorry to say...

 

And no judgment here, I get how hard it is... I am still in communication with MM and some days we are friendly, and I know on those days it counts as an EA. I don't like admitting that, but I'm willing to call a spade a spade.

[SweetiePi]

I don't feel judged by you lemon. I appreciate you calling a spade a spade.

 

 

We don't cross certain boundaries like we used to (flirting, talking dirty, intimate long conversations). We never spend time completely alone. We have to work together occasionally; and I want that to go smooth. Now we just share our common interests together in groups of mutual friends. My H knows him and knows about this friendship and is fine with it. I guess the only thing I feel is inappropriate about this friendship is that him and I both have feelings for each other which we don't act upon. That just doesn't go away overnight for me.

 

 

I'm just confused about what part of what you posted does NOT constitute an EA... if your husband knew about your continued friendship with this man, would he be uncomfortable? If so, then it's an EA I'm sorry to say...

 

And no judgment here, I get how hard it is... I am still in communication with MM and some days we are friendly, and I know on those days it counts as an EA. I don't like admitting that, but I'm willing to call a spade a spade.

[lemondrop21]

I don't feel judged by you lemon. I appreciate you calling a spade a spade.

 

 

We don't cross certain boundaries like we used to (flirting, talking dirty, intimate long conversations). We never spend time completely alone. We have to work together occasionally; and I want that to go smooth. Now we just share our common interests together in groups of mutual friends. My H knows him and knows about this friendship and is fine with it. I guess the only thing I feel is inappropriate about this friendship is that him and I both have feelings for each other which we don't act upon. That just doesn't go away overnight for me.

Good luck as you move forward on this journey, SweetiePi. I don't know that this kind of contact will allow you to heal or for the relationship to normalize, but I'm in no place to offer great advice on post-affair relationships. I guess one thing that stands out to me is the sports activity that you both attend, in a group - it seems to me like that could get nixed, and that you could limit your contact to work hours.

 

I'm assuming your husband doesn't know about the A? Sorry, I haven't read your backstory (or I'm forgetting, as happens to me often on LS).

 

Best wishes,

Lemon

[SweetiePi]

Thanks lemon. I've followed your thread, but remain fairly quiet. I've not shared much on here as there is a lot of judgement sometimes. There is always a debate when it comes to the polyamourous people. My H is aware of this and loves me the same. Some of us are capable of loving 2 people at once. That doesn't mean I choose to act upon that as I have buckled down to accept a monogamous relationship.

 

Yes, I agree that our sports activity could get dropped. There are only 3 more sessions this month. It closes for the summer and picks back up on September. I might have to find another group or hope he is too busy to sign up. Will have a break from him for 2 months minus having to see him only once in July and once in August: both of which I have no choice but to attend. He was right when he stated that our relationship was a whirlwind.

 

Yes, my H knows about the inappropriate parts of this friendship. I came clean a couple weeks ago and apologized. It has led to him and I discussing what was malfunctioning on our marriage and how we need to be a team again. We both got lazy and were not working well together and meeting each other's needs. It has led to changes and a renewed love for each other.

 

It is still hard when the feelings won't dissipate. Hopefully as the summer approaches and less contact will help that process.

 

Good luck as you move forward on this journey, SweetiePi. I don't know that this kind of contact will allow you to heal or for the relationship to normalize, but I'm in no place to offer great advice on post-affair relationships. I guess one thing that stands out to me is the sports activity that you both attend, in a group - it seems to me like that could get nixed, and that you could limit your contact to work hours.

 

I'm assuming your husband doesn't know about the A? Sorry, I haven't read your backstory (or I'm forgetting, as happens to me often on LS).

 

Best wishes,

Lemon

[13Hearts]

I'm conflicted. He is such a SH-t he couldn't send a one word text saying sorry?

 

I might want to kick him

 

I've read that some of these men do not realize how very much their BWs will be hurt by the affair, or by them leaving the marriage. And that when they see such an emotional reaction, and realize how much pain they have caused, it wakes them up and they will do anything to appease their BW (rightfully so).

 

I wouldn't take it personally. Hell, I rarely take anything personally. People do $hitty things every minute of every day, and it's nothing to do with me. It's just the way it is. A man lies, cheats on his wife, pretends to be someone he's not, all so he can get what he wants at any given moment? Pure selfishness. If that's the way someone wants to live his life, that's their problem, not mine. Someday he will have to answer for it, but not to me.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm a bs. I was beyond devastated by my H's affairs. Come d-day I fell into shock. I didn't know which way was up. I was uncontrollably shaking, vomiting, panic attacks, crying. It was a truly terrible time for me. I didn't eat or sleep for days on end & sleep deprivation truly messes with your brain.

 

Regardless of all that I was horrified by the notion that my H planned to just ghost her...never even explaining what had happened, her not knowing if he had a terrible accident or even if he was alive?!? That's so incredibly cowardly. You do NOT treat a human being that way.

 

For whatever motivation most BS's WANT their husbands to write an 'it's over' or NC as they call it, letter. For a MM to go THAT far & never even say "Sorry! Changed my mind" is beyond pathetic.

 

These forums make so many excuses for MM. They're (supposedly) grown adults. We all make choices in life. Sometimes they're really horrible ones. The measure of a man (or woman) is how they deal with the results of their choices. Isn't how we treat the people in our lives a fundamental measure of basic character?

 

Sometimes it upsets me that I don't see more anger on this forum. Sorry, venting!