Cell phone question [updated]

[S2B]

The voice activated recorder in his car is a good idea considering his lies and unusual behavior for him.

 

He doing something he's covering up - may as well find out what that is.

[dichotomy]

You never ask permission to check phone or emails or spy if you got a strong suspicion or gut feeling of cheating - you just do it.

 

There are many ways and avenues to check up on someone.

[cc_zero]

The complete inability to ever see the phone out of my wife's sight was one of the first and most obvious signs of her affair.

 

People having affairs guard their phone like it's ****ing Ft. Knox.

[cc_zero]

May I suggest that as an adult regardless of the marriage vows, start to show a bit of privacy regard. The moment the digging up dirt and plotting occurs the foundation is cracking.

 

Have some dignity for yourself. Seek counseling. I hate to see you wasting time on finding faults when some deeper concerns are really at the forefront.

 

I completely disagree.

 

Cheaters Lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie. They'll swear on the childrens life and to god and lie.

 

Often, digging into your spouses privacy is the only way to break through the lie's and find out the truth they were never going to tell you.

 

Super phone protection/hiding is IMO one of the surest signs of cheating. Especially after admitting to deleting stuff.

 

My wife used WhatsApp and had it set so that it deleted all conversations immediately after finishing them.

 

My suggestion is to get on google and read up on how to recover deleted text messages and then get ahold of the phone again.

 

My wife was quite good at hiding it all. I found out pieces because she didn't know that WhatsApp kept sent/recieved images in the data folder on the phone even though it was automatically deleting texts. I found out the full story when she changed jobs and had copied everything from her work computer to a USB stick she put in her drawer at home and she had inadvertently copied letters to her AP which I found.

 

Had I not snooped big time, I would have never known.

[VeveCakes]

I agree the voice recorder needs to happen.

[Lobe]

I agree the voice recorder needs to happen.

 

What you need is peace of mind. and Veve is 100% correct

 

CC is also 100% correct - people having affairs guard their phone like it's ****ing Ft. Knox. If you honestly, deep in your heart, believed it was just porn he was hiding and your marriage and sex life is really as perfect as you say, you wouldn't be here asking.

 

Have you heard the term "gaslighting?" It's where your cheating spouse gives you what he thinks are plausible, logical answers in an attempt to make you feel stupid or crazy, make you feel like the suspicion and jealousy is all in your head. I ignored that gut feeling and paid for it royally - had I paid attention the first time I something didn't pass the sniff test, the affair would have been outed after a couple of weeks, not left to fester and grow for 6 months.

 

While there's a *remote* possibility that your hubby suddenly developed a car-cleaning fetish, that he values trust so much he'd be willing to leave you for asking to look at his phone, and is completely platonic with the woman he forgot to mention he carpools and trains with at 5:30am, invites to lunch alone, and sends personal emails to, don't you think that if work was checking phones they would be as suspicious of a clean log every bit as much as you? Not buying it. Not for a wooden nickel. Whether it's an EA or PA is irrelevant - he's hiding it because he's knows it's wrong.

 

If his phone logs were empty, his employer could just look at his bill and bust him, but you don't have that luxury (unless you know someone at his work who could check for you?) Regardless, now that he knows you're onto him, he's going to be more careful. He might install words with friends or one of the affair chat apps that looks like a fishing app - next time you have his phone you can try poking around that way but that's time consuming since he's going to be vigilant in making sure his call and text logs are clean before he comes home so when you ask he can hand it over. Perhaps he will just get a private phone you don't know about, also a common technique. "Hey, platonic coworker - how about you call me on my personal cell XXOO your gym buddy."

 

While there are people saying, go ahead and just leave, don't waste your time, even if there is no chance of R, this information can be important during the divorce negotiations and settlement depending on which jurisdiction you live in.

 

So. Consider this an exercise in peace of mind.

 

You need to go sleuth and get the VAR in his vehicle. Best Buy and Amazon both sell versions for under $50 (or you can get one for under $10 on eBay but it'll probably take a month to arrive from China, and I don't believe you can afford to wait that long.) I know exactly how much fear and anxiety you have right now. If nothing, the VAR will give you peace of mind that hubby is 100% faithful and you can go get some IC to deal with your inexplicable feelings. Or, you'll get peace of mind knowing that you aren't crazy. The tricky part is, do you really want to know yet?

[yepsurething]

Im getting the recorder today, so I'll put it in the car for tomorrow. Any suggestions where to hide it?

[Lois_Griffin]

oh another thing...after I found the email about carpooling and talked to him about it first he was furious, then he became very affectionate and loving like he hasn't in a very long time wanting to make love every night. maybe he was trying to connect or maybe he was feeling guilty and trying to make it up to me. he couldn't stop telling me how beautiful I was and how much he loved me. until i approached him about the lunch emails I found, he became angry at me again.

 

and I asked in a nice way btw.

Oh jeez. Don't you recognize manipulation when you see it?

 

Oldest trick in the book. If you can't get them to believe your lies, dazzle them with bullsh*t.

[yepsurething]

I guess I don't recognize it. =( thats why Im asking

 

My husband is by most impressions a VERY clean cut, moral, rule following guy.

 

it's always been hard for me to believe if I catch him in a lie because he is such a decent guy in so many ways I can't believe when he lies.

 

and it's still hard now to believe he would lie. I still wonder if I am seeing or feeling things that aren't there.

 

my first marriage was to a guy who was a ladies man cheater type. it was obvious. When I met my now husband he was a 100 percent switch. in college when we met, driven to succeed, wanted a wife and family.

 

he says I'm hormonal and basically crazy, so if after recording for a while I find there is nothing going on, I will seek counseling cause I must need the help.

[elaine567]

 

oh another thing...after I found the email about carpooling and talked to him about it first he was furious, then he became very affectionate and loving like he hasn't in a very long time wanting to make love every night.

Sorry to say but WS often get very "sexed up" when they are in an affair, the BS is then even more blindsided thinking their marriage has never been better, but all the stimulation is in fact coming from the OM/OW.

 

...maybe he was trying to connect or maybe he was feeling guilty and trying to make it up to me. he couldn't stop telling me how beautiful I was and how much he loved me. until i approached him about the lunch emails I found, he became angry at me again.

I guess here he ramped up the sex and compliments to cover up what he is hiding here.

"How could you think that *I* would ever cheat on you, you are beautiful and turn me on.. you are just being silly." Hmmm.

[yepsurething]

Sorry to say but WS often get very "sexed up" when they are in an affair, the BS is then even more blindsided thinking their marriage has never been better, but all the stimulation is in fact coming from the OM/OW.

 

 

I guess here he ramped up the sex and compliments to cover up what he is hiding here.

"How could you think that *I* would ever cheat on you, you are beautiful and turn me on.. you are just being silly." Hmmm.

 

He's always told me I'm beautiful and we have a good sex life, that suddenly became nothing after an argument about 2 months ago...and that has never happened before. we've gone without sex because of being busy but never because of an argument.

 

he told me last night that he hasn't been with any one physically since we met.

 

I hope that's true.

[yepsurething]

I'm actually getting quite sick to my stomach about what I might find out.

 

I hope I am just paranoid and I've found out about an EA before is has become physical, but either way it's hurtful and hard to believe.

[Lobe]

I'm actually getting quite sick to my stomach about what I might find out.

 

I hope I am just paranoid and I've found out about an EA before is has become physical, but either way it's hurtful and hard to believe.

 

I remember that feeling only too well.

 

Stay strong. Here's hoping we are all paranoid freaks and you find nothing.

[cc_zero]

I guess I don't recognize it. =( thats why Im asking

 

My husband is by most impressions a VERY clean cut, moral, rule following guy.

 

it's always been hard for me to believe if I catch him in a lie because he is such a decent guy in so many ways I can't believe when he lies.

 

and it's still hard now to believe he would lie. I still wonder if I am seeing or feeling things that aren't there.

 

my first marriage was to a guy who was a ladies man cheater type. it was obvious. When I met my now husband he was a 100 percent switch. in college when we met, driven to succeed, wanted a wife and family.

 

he says I'm hormonal and basically crazy, so if after recording for a while I find there is nothing going on, I will seek counseling cause I must need the help.

 

I would have never thought my wife capable of doing what she did. Especially how quickly it went straight to a PA.

 

I think anyone is capable of it. Including me or you.

 

Marriage is work. It takes a lot of effort and thought to keep the love alive and the relationship strong. When that effort slips at some point and one spouse happens to fall in love with someone else who shows interest in them, it's like heroine. Once you take a hit, good luck getting back off the train.

 

Before I had hard proof, any time I questioned my wife's relationship with her "friend", she would become furious and claim I didn't trust her and my inability to do so was pushing her away. It would turn into a screaming match every time I questioned anything having to do with the friend. Lie after lie after lie after lie after lie. In the end, it's hard to fathom how many times you were lied to and that your spouse was capable of such deception for so long.

 

Funny though... once you have hard proof, they instantly break down, and then they'll do anything to "fix" it.

[yepsurething]

I would have never thought my wife capable of doing what she did. Especially how quickly it went straight to a PA.

 

I think anyone is capable of it. Including me or you.

 

Marriage is work. It takes a lot of effort and thought to keep the love alive and the relationship strong. When that effort slips at some point and one spouse happens to fall in love with someone else who shows interest in them, it's like heroine. Once you take a hit, good luck getting back off the train.

 

Before I had hard proof, any time I questioned my wife's relationship with her "friend", she would become furious and claim I didn't trust her and my inability to do so was pushing her away. It would turn into a screaming match every time I questioned anything having to do with the friend. Lie after lie after lie after lie after lie. In the end, it's hard to fathom how many times you were lied to and that your spouse was capable of such deception for so long.

 

Funny though... once you have hard proof, they instantly break down, and then they'll do anything to "fix" it.

 

may I ask what made you have suspicions? What was she doing that was off? and how long were they in an EA before it went to PA?

[Cinnamonstix]

I guess I don't recognize it. =( thats why Im asking

 

My husband is by most impressions a VERY clean cut, moral, rule following guy.

 

it's always been hard for me to believe if I catch him in a lie because he is such a decent guy in so many ways I can't believe when he lies.

 

and it's still hard now to believe he would lie. I still wonder if I am seeing or feeling things that aren't there.

 

my first marriage was to a guy who was a ladies man cheater type. it was obvious. When I met my now husband he was a 100 percent switch. in college when we met, driven to succeed, wanted a wife and family.

 

he says I'm hormonal and basically crazy, so if after recording for a while I find there is nothing going on, I will seek counselling cause I must need the help.

 

I wouldn't assume that because you find that nothing is happening/being said in the car that nothing is going on and you are crazy. He still might be in the stages of fantasising over this woman and nothing physical is happening yet.

 

Usually the ones that call you crazy are the ones that are guilty.

[Lobe]

may I ask what made you have suspicions? What was she doing that was off? and how long were they in an EA before it went to PA?

 

I know this isn't directed to me but I'm pretty sure any one of the BSs here could answer an our stories would be startlingly similar...

 

*edited to add* Their affair was 2 weeks friends, went to PA/FWB, and the lovey mushy EA stuff showed up in their emails about 3 months after the PA started. Total length of the affair from lunch dates to d-day was about 6 months.

 

My WH was already making "lifestyle changes" (midlife crisis) so the affair took me a long time to figure out. After taking up yoga, getting heavily into astrology, and going vegan, my WH was acting strangely, but in a good sort of "I'm checking new things out" strange. We still talked, we cuddled at bedtime, we still did things as a family. Then, several months later, he suddenly got very busy at work, taking lots of overtime. At first he was just ignoring me at lunch, but then he started going in at 6am and staying until 6pm. He spent a lot of time in the bathroom on his phone or talking quietly, always in another room. For about a month I thought nothing of it, but then he started sleeping under a separate blanket as far away from me as physically possible, skipping out on us to run errands (4 hours to pick up drycleaning and grab tomatoes?), going to bed early (so he could work early) but I'd always bust him on his phone when I'd come in an hour or two later.

 

When I started poking around he gaslighted me. "I don't watch the clock when you're running errands - maybe I stopped for a coffee." "Yeah, I don't know why my cheque isn't showing the overtime I worked - I'll check with the secretaries tomorrow but it's probably just the extra taxes they're taking off." "Oh yeah I wasn't at the 6am yoga class at that studio, I went to the other one because the instructor is better."

 

What really tipped me off is that he's usually a very passive and laid back guy, but once the PA went to an EA, he began snapping at me, slamming doors in my face, and hurling insults at me. In two decades years of knowing him, I had NEVER seen him act that way, not towards me, not towards anyone. By the time I had made my mind up to stop asking and just dig, it took less than 2 hours to blow it wide open - their letters, their phone calls/texts on the cell bill... I was sick to my stomach, filled with a rage so deep and hot it was like nothing I had never known. I was wound up so tight I thought I would implode and confronting him, the more he lied, the harder he tried to talk his way out of it, the angrier I got. I just wanted the truth.

 

And then began the long journey towards today, where I am learning to trust him again but mourn the loss of security I once felt.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Lobe

[anika99]

I'm actually getting quite sick to my stomach about what I might find out.

 

I hope I am just paranoid and I've found out about an EA before is has become physical, but either way it's hurtful and hard to believe.

 

I'm sorry but I do think your husband is up to something no good. Put the VAR in his vehicle and then be patient. Don't run to him with the first questionable thing you hear because he will just lie to you and you will give yourself away. You have to wait for proof, something he can't lie his way out of. So far you have been running to him with every little thing you find and all that is accomplishing is to make him better at lying and hiding things. Don't confront until you have solid evidence. For now don't even ask him anymore questions. Make him think your suspicions are a thing of the past and everything is all good now. You want him to relax and get careless with his secrets.

[Lobe]

I'm sorry but I do think your husband is up to something no good. Put the VAR in his vehicle and then be patient. Don't run to him with the first questionable thing you hear because he will just lie to you and you will give yourself away. You have to wait for proof, something he can't lie his way out of. So far you have been running to him with every little thing you find and all that is accomplishing is to make him better at lying and hiding things. Don't confront until you have solid evidence. For now don't even ask him anymore questions. Make him think your suspicions are a thing of the past and everything is all good now. You want him to relax and get careless with his secrets.

 

Yes, you absolutely need to give him enough rope to hang himself - if he knows you're watching, looking, checking, asking, he's going to be on his toes ready to gaslight you the point of insanity.

 

And if he stopped having sex with you and you were regularly sexually active before, it's because he's probably getting it somewhere else.

[cc_zero]

may I ask what made you have suspicions? What was she doing that was off? and how long were they in an EA before it went to PA?

 

My situation was not the norm, as my wife was having an affair with another woman who is a lesbian. (long story posted in here)

 

But that said..

 

1) Extreme phone hiding / extremely protective of phone, never left her sight

 

2) Used apps other than the normal default message app to talk to her "friend" which was set to delete all finished conversations. Excuse was that lots of texts made her phone slow. Although they were deleted, WhatsApp still showed that 4000 text messages had gone back and forth in 3 months

 

3) Changes in our normal sex life habits

 

4) We started fighting, .. previously we had very few fights over anything

 

5) Her "friend" gave her what I considered to be over the top gifts for birthdays and christmas

 

6) They went on happy hours and other outings where it was just them rather than a group of girls... a correlation here would be she started being away from the home more often, leaving me to take care of the kids

 

7) She changed her grooming habits, suddenly was more into make up and such. Have you noticed he started using a new cologne or bought new clothes randomly which he wouldn't have done before?

 

8) Questioning any of these things resulted in extreme defensiveness and fights

 

9) Our connection became very surface, a lot of intimacy within the marriage disappeared. I felt like I was doing something wrong or was being a bad husband in some way.

 

People in affairs are basically leading 2 lives.. it's impossible to keep the first life at the same level of interaction and intimacy it was before trying to lead 2 lives, so lots of little things change and it will feel like your marriage is crumbling and you're not really sure why.

 

And pay attention to what Anika said, only confront him once you have concrete proof. Anything less will be met only with excuses and more lies and send him and the affair further underground and harder to catch. For example, if you hear something that kinda sounds like something is going on recorded on the VAR, you'll have to admit to using the VAR to confront him, he'll make excuses and lie and you won't be satisfied and now he'll know you were recording him and make sure his conversations are now at the office or outside or go get a pre paid phone to do it on cause he knows you're watching.

Edited June 8, 2016 by cc_zero

[Cinnamonstix]

I have a question....

 

First, I fully understand wanting to get to the bottom of things and have answers. It's only human.

 

But what I want to know is....Even if your husband weren't having an affair (which I think he is or is about to), would you still be happy with the way he is treating you and the quality of your relationship as it is now? Could you be happy like this the rest of your life?

 

This really goes for anyone who has seen their partner change. Why put up with a hostile, secretive partner who doesn't like to be intimate or spend time with you anymore, etc. regardless of the reason? Why not say that their behaviour isn't okay, you're not happy anymore and you want out?

[Lobe]

I have a question....

 

This really goes for anyone who has seen their partner change. Why put up with a hostile, secretive partner who doesn't like to be intimate or spend time with you anymore, etc. regardless of the reason? Why not say that their behaviour isn't okay, you're not happy anymore and you want out?

 

My hunting quadding husband went vegan yogi on me, but he wasn't hostile and secretive about that. Maybe a bit flaky, but - I was willing to support him. After about 9 months of him cheerfully bringing home organic soya fillets and laughing about the person who farted in hot yoga and made him gag (usually himself) he met his xOW and turned into this hostile secretive person I didn't know.

 

If the hostility, frigidity, and secretiveness did not originate in an affair, perhaps the reason for the hostility, frigidity, and secretiveness was mental illness - do you just walk out on someone with anxiety or depression because it's inconvenient to your happiness?

 

I guess maybe sometimes a spouse just turns into a complete jerk overnight for no apparent reason and you can just stop loving them and tap out like *bam* but generally, non-narcissitic humans who love and care about each other aren't quite that callous.

[Lobe]

But what I want to know is....Even if your husband weren't having an affair (which I think he is or is about to), would you still be happy with the way he is treating you and the quality of your relationship as it is now? Could you be happy like this the rest of your life?

 

According to OP, they were pretty solid when the suspicions began. If the treatment were to continue and there was no affair or underlying mental illness, then the question would be, will you be happy like this forever.

[underpants]

I have a question....

 

First, I fully understand wanting to get to the bottom of things and have answers. It's only human.

 

But what I want to know is....Even if your husband weren't having an affair (which I think he is or is about to), would you still be happy with the way he is treating you and the quality of your relationship as it is now? Could you be happy like this the rest of your life?

 

This really goes for anyone who has seen their partner change. Why put up with a hostile, secretive partner who doesn't like to be intimate or spend time with you anymore, etc. regardless of the reason? Why not say that their behaviour isn't okay, you're not happy anymore and you want out?

 

 

I think its a question of cycles. Usually cheaters will fake remorse or blame shift their cheating on (anything that will stick) including some weird temporary mental illness, and spouses desperate to believe will cling to a reason to.

 

It is an abuse cycle, but some betrayed want so badly to believe in whatever that they will stay through numerous ddays or just crappy treatment because being 'married' or 'in a relationship' gives some sort of status, feeling of belonging or fear of abandonment issues . Personally I find it fascinating and am sure that mind set is in of it self a bit mental.

 

Really, the only way to stop someone from this behavior is to simply not tolerate it. Leave, divorce, break up, and show them that sometimes they don't get a first, second, third, 40th chance. I do think 'society' is moving in this direction, but change is slow.

 

Change is scary for some, even if breaking up would be beneficial for both parties. One to be free from abuse and the other to actually learn that their poor decisions, choices and actions resulted in loss, not reward.

 

my .02

[yepsurething]

any suggestions on where to hide the recorder?

 

I taped in to the underside of the back seat drink cup holder in the center console. I"m worried he'll close it for some reason and the recorder will dislodge and he'll find it.

 

 

and to the person who wonders why I would put up with this and not just leave, like the other poster said, we have many happy years together and I'm hoping he hasn't cheated, but if he has I love him and want to make it work. He's going through a hard time in life and this could be the biggest mistake he's ever made.