Emotional Affair

[PinkSunset]

For the life of me, I don't understand why he wants to rush things so much. His focus at this time should be on sorting out the crisis in his marriage- whether he chooses to leave or stay.

 

It's the worst timing for a weekend getaway! What is he thinking?

 

I hate to think of you being dragged in at this stage- possibly the ugliest. Not just she but HE should never be able to blame you for the decision to leave his M. Especially with a 7 year old kid in the picture, he is bound to second-guess himself and yo yo back and forth- even if he leaves once and for all. Any future relationship you could have with him will start on a terrible note if you are entangled with his divorce in any way- even if it's only in his mind. He needs to get out of the marriage on his own, NOT use you as a crutch!

 

Did you see your therapist today? How did it go?

 

His behavior in the past shows he is very quick to blame others for his choices and his situation. I really think it's a terrible idea for you to go away with him now of all times. Sorry, Pink

 

He is being very impulsive right now I agree!

 

He said he feels like he is losing me. I think this is why he is trying to rush everything. I need to explain that rushing it and making mistakes isn't going to help anyone here.

[PinkSunset]

I strongly agree with StillTrying

 

You really should extract yourself from this situation. Allow him for the sake of his son and 12 yr marraige the proper opportunity to work on the marriage without you lurking just behind Jamie with open arms.

 

There is no way to remain "friends" (secret) through this. You have to just exit stage left.

 

If he still divorces then fine. You can rekindle your love

 

So did he sleep in the bed with her last night? If she throws himself at her do you really think he would resist? With his own wife?

 

Ugh. This is a bad situation to be in Im afraid. And it will continue to be extremely hard and painful if you remain in it. The good thing is you havent taken things to the full on sexual level so extracting will be less painful.

 

It's hard to just leave him be...Knowing that he will be alone in this. I will try to discuss this in therapy

 

I didn't ask if he slept in her bed. I would assume that NO, he didn't. I guess I should ask that question?! I can't see him doing it. He isn't attracted to her anymore he told me... But who knows! The only sexual contact he's had in the last two years have been with me, so he says... And we haven't even done it! My mind is all over the place right now.

[elaine567]

Well except for the fact he has lied to his wife every day for the past year very successfully.

 

You know he certainly is not above lying, has the capacity to lie, and is quite good at.

He just lied to his wife through his teeth today

"She thinks he has someone else otherwise there would be no reason for him to leave! He denied this he said, he told her that he was sick of being unhappy."

[Grapesofwrath]

I guess I just don't understand how after two years of sleeping in separate rooms and basically having no intimacy or real relationship, you can just say hey! Okay now that you're fed up lets work on this?!! If it wasn't for him saying he wants out and meaning it this time, she would continue on like that! Did she intend to live that way forever? It can't be any better for her either, right?!!!

 

I know it's going to be a long and complicated and stressful road and that none of this is easy. I just don't know what my role should be here in regards to him. He wants me there for him for to know someone is going to be there. It's hard to say nope, sorry! You're on your own! It's not right IMO.

 

Are you 100% certain they have been sleeping in separate rooms? Has she corroborated this for you? If not, then you can't be sure it's true. Even if it is true, it doesn't change my first response: It makes complete sense for them to try to be intimate again. They are married. They are going to try to stay married. Staying married is MUCH easier than getting divorced. Even if they have issues. Even if, from your POV, she mistreats him. Staying married is easier, especially if your family "doesn't believe in divorce."

 

What you are seeing is very typical. It's a crisis, so she is responding by trying with renewed effort to work on the marriage.

 

I will share a memory as an example: My parents divorced when I was about 11 years old. One of my final memories of them as a couple is the two of them snuggling on the couch in our family room. Just weeks before my father moved out. They were on the verge of divorce, yet they were trying to fight it. Trying to make it work. Trying to rekindle something somehow to prevent splitting up our family. People do that.

 

Best thing you can do is get out of the picture and let him handle his business.

 

And I agree that this is not the right time for a weekend getaway. Unless you want a D-Day and for the $hit to really hit the fan.

[JulieEverette]

I

I guess I just don't understand how after two years of sleeping in separate rooms and basically having no intimacy or real relationship, you can just say hey! Okay now that you're fed up lets work on this?!! If it wasn't for him saying he wants out and meaning it this time, she would continue on like that! Did she intend to live that way forever? It can't be any better for her either, right?!!!

 

This was likely never an accurate picture of their marriage anyway. All MM say they are "roommates". It is very likely there was still something there between them physically at times and emotionally. At least off and on or occasionnally, maybe even more. Which then of course explains why she wants to save things.

 

Judge Judy says if it deosnt make sense it isnt true. Your gut is screaming to you this doesnt make sense. But its not bc BS is absurd. Its more likely bc things were never exactly how they were portrayed to you.

[elaine567]

I didn't ask if he slept in her bed. I would assume that NO, he didn't. I guess I should ask that question?! I can't see him doing it. He isn't attracted to her anymore he told me... But who knows! The only sexual contact he's had in the last two years have been with me, so he says... And we haven't even done it! My mind is all over the place right now.

 

OK so this man despite being in close contact with two women, one being his wife who he lives with, is getting no real sex whatsoever for 2 years? and you believe him?

 

Affairs and The "Other Woman": Lies Mistresses Tell Themselves - Straight Talk 4 Women-OLD

[JulieEverette]

He isn't attracted to her anymore he told me... But who knows! The only sexual contact he's had in the last two years have been with me, so he says... And we haven't even done it.

 

Oh dear lord. And you believe this?

 

I mean yes it is possible. But very very unlikely based on the other information you have given.

[Lady Hamilton]

She now wants to work on their marriage?! and have him move back into her bedroom! Is this a joke??

 

Nothing resuscitates a marriage where people are taken for granted like the idea it will end.

 

She thinks he has someone else otherwise there would be no reason for him to leave! He denied this he said, he told her that he was sick of being unhappy.

 

Which was astute because her instinct is right, of course.

 

She told him she nor her family believe in divorce and that she wouldn't give him one!

 

Divorce is not a unicorn. It exists. Her not participating in it doesn't negate its existence and is not an excuse by him to not get one. In fact, if she doesn't participate in the process, the divorce will take longer but will be far easier to obtain.

 

He told her he is going to start looking for a place to live right away. I guess she accused him of abandoning their son.

 

Legally she may have a point. He'd better talk to the lawyer before leaving. He may need to file paperwork before leaving to negate the abandonment claim. Our state nukes you on both custody and property if you leave and then file as opposed to filing then leaving.

 

He told me that it didn't matter, he is going to go through with meeting the lawyer again next week and putting a retainer. He is hoping she will come around by then but he said it's not likely. He is worried about his son already.

 

And today you will remember as one of the easy days, before everything got hard and complicated.

 

He asked if we could get away for the weekend. I really would love to. I am just afraid that she has him under a microscope now and might figure something out.

 

Before you leave, call and tell her you're going. Because if you go out of town with him right now, that's basically what you're doing.

 

I know I should be staying away right now but I am struggling.

 

Lots of talk about what you want, what you feel, how you are reacting... Not so much about anything else, except for how it relates to you. Interesting.

 

If I were you I'd focus on the long game as opposed to your short game. You're so focused on what you think, want, feel, and lament now but I don't think you've thought at all about anything beyond the immediate. I think you've thought even less about anybody beyond you, except for a tiny bit about him.

[PinkSunset]

OK so this man despite being in close contact with two women, one being his wife who he lives with, is getting no real sex whatsoever for 2 years? and you believe him?

 

Affairs and The "Other Woman": Lies Mistresses Tell Themselves - Straight Talk 4 Women-OLD

 

Oh dear lord. And you believe this?

 

I mean yes it is possible. But very very unlikely based on the other information you have given.

 

I realize how ridiculous it sounds. At least I know for sure since we've been more intimate he definitely hasn't done anything with her. I won't get into details about how much time he has previously spent "alone".

 

Nothing resuscitates a marriage where people are taken for granted like the idea it will end.

 

 

 

Which was astute because her instinct is right, of course.

 

 

 

Divorce is not a unicorn. It exists. Her not participating in it doesn't negate its existence and is not an excuse by him to not get one. In fact, if she doesn't participate in the process, the divorce will take longer but will be far easier to obtain.

 

 

 

Legally she may have a point. He'd better talk to the lawyer before leaving. He may need to file paperwork before leaving to negate the abandonment claim. Our state nukes you on both custody and property if you leave and then file as opposed to filing then leaving.

 

 

 

And today you will remember as one of the easy days, before everything got hard and complicated.

 

 

 

Before you leave, call and tell her you're going. Because if you go out of town with him right now, that's basically what you're doing.

 

 

 

Lots of talk about what you want, what you feel, how you are reacting... Not so much about anything else, except for how it relates to you. Interesting.

 

If I were you I'd focus on the long game as opposed to your short game. You're so focused on what you think, want, feel, and lament now but I don't think you've thought at all about anything beyond the immediate. I think you've thought even less about anybody beyond you, except for a tiny bit about him.

 

Well, I am here for me, am I not?

I can only judge and say how Jamie feels to a certain extent and when I have done this everyone on here tells me he is probably lying. I did post a couple of Jamie's emails earlier in the thread which seemingly turned everyone against him. He has since apologized for the way he was...

 

If she figures out we have been having an A I think it will make his life that much harder and that is why he does not just tell her. YES, he is lying to her. YES he has been lying to her.

 

He doesn't want me in the middle of anything and frankly I don't want to be. Him and I taking off for the weekend is bad news. I just told him it's not a good idea and he should spend the weekend looking for a place to live, and not to move until he is sure it won't effect anything with their child. He said he is staying in a hotel for the weekend.

[ChickiePops]

I realize how ridiculous it sounds. At least I know for sure since we've been more intimate he definitely hasn't done anything with her. I won't get into details about how much time he has previously spent "alone".

 

 

 

Well, I am here for me, am I not?

I can only judge and say how Jamie feels to a certain extent and when I have done this everyone on here tells me he is probably lying. I did post a couple of Jamie's emails earlier in the thread which seemingly turned everyone against him. He has since apologized for the way he was...

 

If she figures out we have been having an A I think it will make his life that much harder and that is why he does not just tell her. YES, he is lying to her. YES he has been lying to her.

 

He doesn't want me in the middle of anything and frankly I don't want to be. Him and I taking off for the weekend is bad news. I just told him it's not a good idea and he should spend the weekend looking for a place to live, and not to move until he is sure it won't effect anything with their child. He said he is staying in a hotel for the weekend.

 

I believe that you're doing the best you can.

 

But stay strong and don't give in. For your own sake. Don't give him anything until he shows you divorce papers.

[elaine567]

I realize how ridiculous it sounds. At least I know for sure since we've been more intimate he definitely hasn't done anything with her. I won't get into details about how much time he has previously spent "alone".

 

This is nonsense, how do you know "for sure" he hasn't been intimate with her?

Because he tells you...

[onemanband]

sorry to say but he could tell you anything and you would believe him, about the sex thing all i will say is you cant tell from that, why do you think he wouldnt lie to you ?

[JulieEverette]

What Elaine said.

 

Is it so hard to imagine that night after night, there might have been a break in the tension. They obviously bond over their son and do things together as a family. Im sure they watch movies, and generally have good dispositions around the child. You cant imagine a scenario where child falls asleep....MM or BS is feeling a little randy, and they partake in their spouse of 12 years?

 

I think its very well possible they could have even last night.

 

Question-- if Jamie doesnt want you in the middle of things, then why is he still in contact and asking you to stay by his side. (Not to mention stay at a hotel with him)

 

If you want you do the right thing and not be an OW then why are you still in contact with him?

 

Either be an OW or dont. But dont be one but try to call it something elsel or deny that its what it is.

Edited May 12, 2016 by JulieEverette

[SoulCat]

I find it curious that you haven't mentioned anything about your therapy session today, even though posters have asked how it went.

 

 

Were you maybe told some things you didn't want to hear?

[ChickiePops]

This is nonsense, how do you know "for sure" he hasn't been intimate with her?

Because he tells you...

 

Oof I missed this. Yeah you have no reason to believe anything he says. He is a known liar.

 

This guy really does sound like scum..and if he's truly not sleeping with his wife then I'm sure he's sleeping with someone else.

[Grapesofwrath]

Oh, brother. Staying at a hotel is a bad idea, if that is really what he's doing. Again, this makes no sense.

 

Listen to Judge Judy. She's a smart lady. She also says, "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining."

[Lady Hamilton]

Well, I am here for me, am I not?

 

 

One would assume you're here for your relationship, which includes you, MM, and since you're planning for a life as his significant other, will now also include his child and his ex-wife.

 

 

We're hearing a lot about what you want, what you need, the vacations you want to take, how to help you get to where you want to be with the people you want to be with, but not much beyond that.

 

 

If you're planning a post-affair relationship with the guy, you'd best start thinking long-term, and folding into those thoughts stuff that doesn't center on you. Right now it seems to be all about you and the now. However, you've got to now start thinking about him, the child, and his wife/presumably soon-to-be-ex and your forever.

 

 

I can only judge and say how Jamie feels to a certain extent and when I have done this everyone on here tells me he is probably lying. I did post a couple of Jamie's emails earlier in the thread which seemingly turned everyone against him. He has since apologized for the way he was...

 

 

I can say that the number of people on here who will think of him as anything other than an awful person are going to be few and far between. Between the BS's and the jilted OW/OM on here, the riding assumption will be that he's a big, fat, lying jerk. Also, the goal of people here will not be to maintain your relationship with him.

 

 

So I'd take what you hear and filter it with a grain of salt and a bit of common sense.

 

 

Could he be lying? Um, yeah. Absolutely. You could be one in a long line of women who's heard this routine from him only to come back here in three months to cry about how you didn't know where it went wrong. Only you know if what he says, thinks, or does is believable and honest and only you can gauge if the potential that he's lying is worth believing he's being he's honest.

 

If she figures out we have been having an A I think it will make his life that much harder and that is why he does not just tell her. YES, he is lying to her. YES he has been lying to her.

 

 

Well, if you're having a future with him, she'll probably find out. And if she finds out in five years or five minutes will not make the fallout of it any easier. In fact, if she finds out in five years she may even try to take you to court to redo the divorce settlement on the grounds of fraud... Which she may be in her right to do.

 

 

You'll only save yourself a headache if you don't get caught and really, you're not doing much to avoid being caught. Dealing with the "when" as opposed to the "if" is the way to go now.

 

 

What you're seemingly not getting is that, as an AP, you're not required to care what she does, thinks, says, how she acts, or anything beyond that. She's an outer factor who's inconsequential to you. However, by being in his life and assuming the role of his primary and public relationship, you're inviting her into your life. You now have to care what she does, thinks, says, how she acts, and all the rest of it. You can't continue to act like she doesn't exist.

 

 

She is now, and will forever be, a factor in your relationship from now until the day you die. The more you push her out, lie to her, or try to pull one on her, the harder you will make everything.

 

 

In short: you're sparing yourself no headaches by not telling her something she will inevitably find out.

 

He doesn't want me in the middle of anything and frankly I don't want to be. Him and I taking off for the weekend is bad news. I just told him it's not a good idea and he should spend the weekend looking for a place to live, and not to move until he is sure it won't effect anything with their child. He said he is staying in a hotel for the weekend.

 

Again, you are now, forever, and eternally going to be in the middle of everything. To have you be left out of it, it's just not going to happen. You're going to be in the fray here and the fray is about to be a facet of your relationship.

 

 

By taking up with him and turning affair into relationship, not being in the middle of everything isn't a choice. You're about to be a former mistress turned partner and possible stepmother. There's no more thinking about just you and how you don't want to be in the middle. It's now everybody... And you.

[S2B]

Pink - did he even have the appointment with the attorney last Tuesday?

 

And you can't possibly know he told his wife - unless you ask her directly!

 

Let him FILE those divorce papers AND move out on his own before you see him again!

 

He owes you that at the least! Some action that proves he's not been lying this whole time!

 

And surely he must know he can get a divorce easily without her approval! Come on, who's he kidding? Again, maybe he didn't even have that appt last Tuesday - because he should surely know that.

[dubliner]

Pinksunset, I know first hand how hard it is to say no to the MM/CM

No you can't meet me for coffee

No we can't spend time alone together

No you can't email/text me when you miss me/are bored etc

 

Unfortunately if you don't enforce these normal boundaries you are enabling him to continue the A

Meeting up or going away is only a short term hit, it won't make him see things any more clearly, it won't make him divorce, it's simply temporarily patches, you have your/his emotional needs met for a moment but then it's back to reality, he goes home to W and you go home alone, the emotional high has an opposite low, it's emotional self harm.

 

The kindest thing you can do for yourself and him is to distance yourself as far as possible, he knows how you feel, he knows you want a R with him, he doesn't need YOU to jump through hoops to prove that.

Its ok to support him through his D, but you have to know where the line is between support and involvement and keep it clear. The work needs to come from him, and you need to allow him to do that his way, in his own time, his R with his W is HIS issue to deal with.

[S2B]

That's a good post Dub!

 

Pink - have you read the book CoDependent No More by Melody Beattie? It's good! This divorce is his to do.

 

It's important to know your healthy boundary and stick to that. This is HIS divorce to do. When he does that - then he is free to see you.

 

But until HE does what needs to be done - he's still a married man trying to see a single gal all while complaining about his marriage.

 

If he really intends to get divorced - he will make that happen whether you're actively seeing him at the time or not.

 

In the meantime you need to stay busy and focused on other things besides what he is or isn't doing.

 

Time will show if he's doing the divorce - you don't need to be in the middle of it to make that happen. He's a big boy and perfectly capable of navigating towards getting things to happen in his own life. Holding his hand is not helping him become more independent and a stronger person while doing that.

[JulieEverette]

He's a big boy and perfectly capable of navigating towards getting things to happen in his own life.

 

Agree. Back when I was codependent I never thought people could solve their own problems or deal with consequences on their own.

 

This is a 38 year old professional, successful man. By what you have written he has a social life, is attractive (and I assume his wife is too), is educated and intelligent and according to you very in tune with himself emotionally. (This also is why I find it unbelievable this man has not had sex in 2 years)

 

Why does he "need you to be there for him" through his supposed divorce?

 

He SAYS he doesnt want you in the middle (which Im sure makes your heart flutter at what a great caring guy he is) but his ACTIONS of inviting you to a hotel and continuing contact show completely otherwise.

[PinkSunset]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

 

First, he didn't invite me to the hotel. He asked if I had wanted to go away with him somewhere for the weekend and I declined. He then decided he would stay in a hotel, alone.

 

Second, I did go to my therapy session. It was after my last post that's why I didn't mention it. I barely scratched the surface but I gave her the just of what's been going on. The last time I saw her was three years ago and I had just started seeing Kevin. Funny how things can change. Not much has been addressed yet there.

 

I spent 3 hours on the phone with him last night and told him it was time I gave him space to deal with his Divorce. He was upset me with about it, he doesn't want to lose me etc.

I feel like he is worried I'm going to find someone else while he is going through all of this which isn't the case... But why else be so upset? I still said I would be there if he needs me.

[S2B]

Is he in a hotel now Pink?

 

When did he say he was actually getting that divorce filed?

 

I just worry for you - that he may be still future faking - and you will feel really hurt if he continues in the marriage.

 

Why is he so mad? Mad you are looking out for YOUR best interest? He should feel supportive of you IF he plans to actually get divorced.

[JulieEverette]

And maybe you will find someone else. But if he is truly divorcing bc its best for him and not bc of you, then what difference does it make. Ultimately he is doing this for him bc the marriage is so awful right? Or at least thats the narrative you both want

 

Its very clear he wants a guarantee if he divorces that you will be his landing spot as well as meeting all his needs during the grueling divorce process. But keeping yourself concealed and a secret the while time.

 

I hope you see how this is a raw deal for you and a very comfortable deal for him.

[JulieEverette]

Was he at home during this 3 hr phone call?

 

Did you ask him if his wife moved back to sharing his bed? Or if they have had sex at all?