Is it overwhelming for ladies in bars?

[LookAtThisPOst]

Not sure where in the universe you picked the notion that elaine and Gemma were suggesting that women use "autistic" as a baseless and generic insult for men that they dismiss in bars. I mean that was absolutely nowhere in anything they said. Obviously what they were actually suggesting is that it's possible that some men who struggle to interpret what seem to be unmistakable social signals of 'stay away' looks or lack of looks and interpret them as encouragement to approach or just fail to interpret them at all might literally have some degree of autism.

 

Okay, but I find that suggesting that there is a "degree of autism" is rather grabbing at straws, yes?

 

I'm wondering in what universe this notion had been brought about.

 

So to sum up, I do believe reading the signals is straightforward but I believe in approaching first and THEN seeing if they are interested

 

Yes indeed.

[jen1447]

Okay, but I find that suggesting that there is a "degree of autism" is rather grabbing at straws, yes?

 

I'm wondering in what universe this notion had been brought about.

 

I'm not an autism expert but I think it's common knowledge there's a 'spectrum' - with Asperger's on one end (mild) and whatever the extreme is on the other, and most ppl who suffer from it at all somewhere in the middle. So referring to a "degree" seems quite apt.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I'm not an autism expert but I think it's common knowledge there's a 'spectrum' - with Asperger's on one end (mild) and whatever the extreme is on the other, and most ppl who suffer from it at all somewhere in the middle. So referring to a "degree" seems quite apt.

 

So a "hint" of autism?

[jen1447]

Pretty much. Bscly a person who's able to function socially well enough in most situations but has difficulties with more particular social interactions. Or interpreting them, specifically.

[GemmaUK]

It's just a possibility, by no means 'labelling' whatsoever.

It certainly could explain when an approach is made, met unfavourably in body language or micro expressions and the approacher continues with the approach seemingly unable to pick up the reactions he or she is getting.

[basil67]

I am quite familiar with autism spectrum disorders. When reading the posts of the perennially single, I sometimes wonder if there's some ASD happening. It would explain so much about why someone who might be successful in career and sports/hobbies may really struggle socially.

 

And from me, ASD is NOT an insult. Instead, I see it as an explanation as to what's going on and then possibly use that knowledge as a base for learning new ways to interact. It's sad that some still see autism as a negative or an insult instead of just a different way of being and learning. If people approached the idea of ASD with a broader mind, relationship outcomes for many could be very different.

 

For what it's worth, there are MANY older undiagnosed high functioning autistics around. Hate the label 'high functioning' because it's not strictly accurate, but for this context it will suffice.

[Els]

No, it's not really as simple as... it's as complex as the mating dance as humans do, psychology of self, social psychology, and usually which drink you're on now. Hey, women have a difficult time if it, I acknowledge that. I'm not trying to denigrate anyone. I'm just saying that everyone appreciates validation of their attractiveness, whether they admit it or not. Women are socialized to feign demure, so they often obfuscate what they want or feel. Men are allowed, even expected, to express theirs more directly.

 

How many threads have there been where women talk about how they want men to take the initiative, be willing to take the risk, act alpha and so on... but now you're saying that only women are allowed to initiate, and that men are supposed be meek and stay in their place until a woman gives him the look-nod-smile signal that she's ready for him to approach now?

 

I'm not saying you ALWAYS have to look for a specific signal and NEVER approach otherwise. I'm saying to consider the circumstances (are she and the person she is with engaged in deep conversation? is she in a large group that appears to be work-related? does she appear generally open to approach or is she clearly signalling 'not interested'?) and if you guess wrongly, accept a polite 'no' when it is given and move on.

 

But more than the above, I'm addressing the "if women don't want to be approached they shouldn't be in bars" statement. That is LUDICROUS in this day and age. It's like saying if a woman doesn't want someone constantly ogling her boobs she shouldn't be in swimwear at the beach. Just plain wrong.

 

They're called restaurants.

Bars/pubs and restaurants fulfill rather different niches when you go out. I'm surprised that you don't know this. Besides, if you and your group are just wanting to have drinks and not order any mains, that isn't very acceptable in many restaurants. Restaurants also tend to close earlier than bars/pubs do.

[basil67]

Pubs and bars are multifaceted places varying from having really nice restaurants (or really cheap pub grub) to being somewhere to see a live band to somewhere to sit and have a few drinks.

 

The fact that a woman may choose to go to a pub or bar does not in anyway suggest that she's in the market for a new partner.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I'm not saying you ALWAYS have to look for a specific signal and NEVER approach otherwise. I'm saying to consider the circumstances (are she and the person she is with engaged in deep conversation? is she in a large group that appears to be work-related? does she appear generally open to approach or is she clearly signalling 'not interested'?) and if you guess wrongly, accept a polite 'no' when it is given and move on.

 

Well, I know not to engage in someone that's already in a conversation with someone else, that would be interrupting, but if a woman is sitting by herself, idly, at a Meetup (an event intended for people whose intentions are to mingle and socialize), I go up and introduce myself in a friendly fashion.

 

Did she give single to approach? Irrelevant, she's already there to be approached, perhaps she didn't even see me there to give signals.

 

Same goes for parties at private homes, BBQ, pool parties, etc.

 

accept a polite 'no' when it is given and move on

 

Just curious, what would she be saying "no" to?

[Els]

Well, I know not to engage in someone that's already in a conversation with someone else, that would be interrupting, but if a woman is sitting by herself, idly, at a Meetup (an event intended for people whose intentions are to mingle and socialize), I go up and introduce myself in a friendly fashion.

 

Did she give single to approach? Irrelevant, she's already there to be approached, perhaps she didn't even see me there to give signals.

 

Same goes for parties at private homes, BBQ, pool parties, etc.

 

My post wasn't directed at you, it was directed at salparadise (specifically the talk about how women shouldn't be in bars if not desiring to be approached). I thought that was rather obvious. In a meetup group that is specifically for people to meet new folks I think approaching should be fine.

 

Just curious, what would she be saying "no" to?

 

Whatever is asked. "Mind if I sit here?" "Can I buy you a drink?" etc.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I thought that was rather obvious. In a meetup group that is specifically for people to meet new folks I think approaching should be fine.

 

Understood, there are some that think that even in Meetup events, the same rule applies no matter what the situation.

[jay1983]

I think women are sick of men stopping them everywhere they go. If you're looking to approach, try some eye contact and smile. If she doesn't look your way, don't bother.

[jay1983]

It's just a possibility, by no means 'labelling' whatsoever.

It certainly could explain when an approach is made, met unfavourably in body language or micro expressions and the approacher continues with the approach seemingly unable to pick up the reactions he or she is getting.

 

I don't know about autistic, in my area guys approach gals left to right without any green lights. Girl could be coming out of the corner store with grocery bags in both hands and...."hey hey!!! Let me Holla at ya!!!"

[LookAtThisPOst]

I don't know about autistic, in my area guys approach gals left to right without any green lights. Girl could be coming out of the corner store with grocery bags in both hands and...."hey hey!!! Let me Holla at ya!!!"

 

Wonder what region of the city this is in?

[MidwestUSA]

I think women are sick of men stopping them everywhere they go. If you're looking to approach, try some eye contact and smile. If she doesn't look your way, don't bother.

 

What? Are you kidding?

 

Three sentences of common sense. Where'd that come from?

[xxoo]

Sure, be bold and approach regardless of signs. But realize that part of being bold is accepting risk. Be prepared for bold rejection.

 

It's only a big deal if you make it so. And fortune does favor the bold!

[SoleMate]

...if a woman is sitting by herself, idly, at a Meetup (an event intended for people whose intentions are to mingle and socialize), I go up and introduce myself in a friendly fashion.

 

Did she give [a signal] to approach? Irrelevant, she's already there to be approached, perhaps she didn't even see me there to give signals.

 

Same goes for parties at private homes, BBQ, pool parties, etc.

I'm pro socializing, I really am. I would like everybody to have a chance tyo find a partner and also platonic friends. And I agree that it is possible to politely approach a person in the settings you name in some or many cases. So I was with you for much of that. But when you said it was irrelevant whether she wanted to be approached, and that your judgment as to her being there to be approached is controlling, that your thought process and decision making broke down. You're showing signals (!) of male entitlement....the demand and insistence that women act and think and decide the way you want them to....and that you'll do the talking, they'll do the listening.

 

It is truly ironic......men complaining that women aren't receptive, when it's men themselves (some of them, of course not all) who have turned women off with their pushiness, "I know best what you really want and need, little lady" attitude, and constant deliberate deafness to thoughtful, intelligent, well-informed women's efforts to re-educate them.

 

Exercise for the lonely male student: Re-read this thread with an eye to understanding women's point of view.

[jen1447]

Sure, be bold and approach regardless of signs. But realize that part of being bold is accepting risk. Be prepared for bold rejection.

 

It's only a big deal if you make it so. And fortune does favor the bold!

 

Fortune favors the bold, true, but not just blind boldness. Some level of discretion combined with boldness is the sweet spot. If you look like a serial killer and come off like one socially then you'll need to up your game somehow to improve your odds, not just blindly take chances. You need to be able to see what your presenting to the world and save the low percentage maneuvers for after you've fixed up any shortcomings. You don't have to be a superstud/superfox, but you should be the best you you can be and then go out and be bold.

 

I think women are sick of men stopping them everywhere they go. If you're looking to approach, try some eye contact and smile. If she doesn't look your way, don't bother.

 

It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

[MissBee]

It's amazing how in 2016 some of the people who otherwise claim to be all 'modern' perpetuate such beliefs. There are PLENTY of reasons why a woman would be in a bar that do not involve wanting to be hit on by men, regardless of the man's attractiveness.

 

1) We might have a boyfriend/husband

2) We might be wanting to spend time with the friend(s) we are actually there with

3) We might be busy

4) It might be an after-work drinks thing with colleagues which is pretty much required

5) So on and so forth

 

So it really is as simple as look at her body language and see if she WANTS to be approached, or otherwise if you flub up and approach the wrong woman and she says she's not interested, politely accept it and move on. It's not that hard.

 

 

I could also be at a bar because I had a really shiittty day and want to have a drink and talk about it with my friend and that shiitty day could also be because of a guy, and in that case, me being in the bar is to drink and let off some steam with my friend, not talk to some other guy.

 

I think it's a problem when men assume everything a woman does is for them (i.e. leaving your house and being in public means you are asking to be approached) and alternatively, when women are brought up to believe that everything we do should be with the thought towards what a man may think or not. A novel idea: men aren't the center of the universe and sure of course, if you're a single heterosexual woman, sometimes you're at a bar and want to be spoken to and sometimes you don't and are there for reasons completely unrelated to men and dating.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I'm pro socializing, I really am. I would like everybody to have a chance tyo find a partner and also platonic friends. And I agree that it is possible to politely approach a person in the settings you name in some or many cases. So I was with you for much of that. But when you said it was irrelevant whether she wanted to be approached, and that your judgment as to her being there to be approached is controlling, that your thought process and decision making broke down. You're showing signals (!) of male entitlement....the demand and insistence that women act and think and decide the way you want them to....and that you'll do the talking, they'll do the listening.

 

It is truly ironic......men complaining that women aren't receptive, when it's men themselves (some of them, of course not all) who have turned women off with their pushiness, "I know best what you really want and need, little lady" attitude, and constant deliberate deafness to thoughtful, intelligent, well-informed women's efforts to re-educate them.

 

Exercise for the lonely male student: Re-read this thread with an eye to understanding women's point of view.

 

Seriously, SoleMate...you're REALLY blowing this ALL out of proportion.

 

I believe your reading too much into what type of words I've selected to drive a point, for the sake of this post, my saying it being "irrelevant" has nothing to do with entitlement and judging such a person as controlling is WAY out there, not even sure how you came to this conclusion.

 

I was just stating a fact. It is true, it's not relevant in the case of the gatherings I've mentioned. Now if they show signs of non-interest when I try to engage, then I know to move on to mingle with others that would prefer to engage.

[Imajerk17]

I'm pro socializing, I really am. I would like everybody to have a chance tyo find a partner and also platonic friends. And I agree that it is possible to politely approach a person in the settings you name in some or many cases. So I was with you for much of that. But when you said it was irrelevant whether she wanted to be approached, and that your judgment as to her being there to be approached is controlling, that your thought process and decision making broke down. You're showing signals (!) of male entitlement....the demand and insistence that women act and think and decide the way you want them to....and that you'll do the talking, they'll do the listening.

 

It is truly ironic......men complaining that women aren't receptive, when it's men themselves (some of them, of course not all) who have turned women off with their pushiness, "I know best what you really want and need, little lady" attitude, and constant deliberate deafness to thoughtful, intelligent, well-informed women's efforts to re-educate them.

 

Exercise for the lonely male student: Re-read this thread with an eye to understanding women's point of view.

 

Very good post @solemate. And I agree. There is a huge difference between:

 

1."Approach (respectfully) even if you aren't getting signals because you don't really know until say something to her"--which I advocate.

 

and

 

2. "Approach even if you aren't getting signals because she is there to be approached whether she likes it or not"--which I don't advocate at all.

 

Fortune favors the bold but if someone wants you to leave her alone that's her prerogative and you have to respect that.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Imajerk17

[Imajerk17]

ETA from my last post: I did read LATP's post (#84) and in fairness to him, I actually didn't take it to mean that LATP thought he was entitled to an interaction w someone just because they're at a Meetup. I thought that all he was saying that Meetups are natural environments for cold-approaching someone as per 1. of my previous post, which I agree.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Imajerk17

[Jabron1]

Sure, be bold and approach regardless of signs. But realize that part of being bold is accepting risk. Be prepared for bold rejection.

 

It's only a big deal if you make it so. And fortune does favor the bold!

 

Law Of Power #28: Enter Actions With Boldness

 

If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will effect your execution. Timidity is dangerous; better to enter actions with boldness. Any mistakes you make through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no-one admires the timid.

[jen1447]

Law Of Power #28: Enter Actions With Boldness

 

If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will effect your execution. Timidity is dangerous; better to enter actions with boldness. Any mistakes you make through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no-one admires the timid.

 

No one admires the timid, but no one admires brashness disguised as boldness either, even if they do admire the bold, and everyone respects the shrewd.

[Jabron1]

No one admires the timid, but no one admires brashness disguised as boldness either, even if they do admire the bold, and everyone respects the shrewd.

 

I would recommend that every man experiment with 'brashness' for themselves - before accepting other people's limitations.