Is it overwhelming for ladies in bars?

[xxoo]

Hm, I guess that's a world I don't really bother associating with, so I don't get it.

 

What sort of world?

 

A lot of people take bartenders are moonlighting. My friend used to hang out with her husband as he tended bar because otherwise she wouldn't get to see him much as he had two jobs. They were saving for a house.

[ASG]

Hm, I guess that's a world I don't really bother associating with, so I don't get it.

 

 

What world?

I'm a sound engineer, as is my friend. Our workplaces tend to be live music venues. Which means unsociable hours and working in bars.

We don't do 9-5, Monday to Friday. We work evenings and weekends. It's not that we are party people (though that does come with the territory), but that's just what our schedules look like. So hanging out at a bar, while one of us is working, having a couple of drinks and a catch up is a common occurrence.

 

I wouldn't be hanging out with him so much at the bar if I had to wake up early, but I don't.

 

I get that it might seem strange. A while ago, I came home from work, it was Monday or Tuesday, and I had a couple of beers and one of my housemates (a 9-5er) was a bit taken aback that I was drinking so early in the week. But to me, it was Friday. I'd worked for the past few days and had a couple of days off. Beers seemed to be in order.

[MissBee]

Forget what night it is. Pay attention to what woman it is, and how she is acting. Is she glancing your way? Meeting your eye contact? Smiling in your direction? If so, chat her up!

 

If not, seek out someone more receptive.

 

Ditto.

 

I do not get bothered by men approaching me at bars. I don't think the women I know get annoyed at that, even if taken, it's nice to feel like you're attractive, it's more so about the approach and whether a man can accept a polite no thanks if you're not interested.

 

The problem in bars is that some men are drunk and obnoxious and pushy and are breathing all in your face or touching you or all yelling in your ear even when you're not into them. That is NEVER appreciated. However, a man who makes eye contact first, who I may also be eyeing, I would love for him to chat me up. Or if he is charming, knows about personal space, is polite and can chat and leave it at that if I'm not interested, no bother at all.

 

I think for the average woman that's the difference, be it in a bar or elsewhere. It's about if the guy can read social cues, is polite, respectful, charming and most of all if he can take a hint or accept a no gracefully, and unfortunately some men cannot and that's when it's a bother or sometimes downright scary when you get a rude, drunk guy who's pushing up on you.

[Els]

Hm, I guess that's a world I don't really bother associating with, so I don't get it.

 

Lots of people have worked odd jobs as a bartender, especially when they were students. I know some people who did - they are now engineers, doctors, etc. I think you're reading waaaaaaay too much into bars and who goes to them or why. Is there some sort of stigma against them where you were brought up?

[salparadise]

Ditto.

 

I do not get bothered by men approaching me at bars. I don't think the women I know get annoyed at that, even if taken, it's nice to feel like you're attractive, it's more so about the approach and whether a man can accept a polite no thanks if you're not interested.

 

It's about if the guy can read social cues, is polite, respectful, charming and most of all if...

 

 

...he's attractive enough that it makes you feel validated. That's not wrong, it's just the way people are, men and women. I'm a man, but I know how it makes me feel to get attention from high-value specimens. And it works just as well even if I'm not looking to hook up.

 

I think that women who go to bars and then claim to not like being approached are in denial. But this presumes that it's the right guy, not the wrong guys doing the approaching.

 

I shop at the local natural food store regularly and there is an attractive woman who works there. We've talked some, maybe even flirted a little, but she's 20 years younger than me... so, few weeks ago I went in there with my girlfriend and this young woman was working. I was buying ingredients for my gf pizza dough and she reminded me that I had promised to give her the recipe. I said, oh yea, sorry I can't remember to bring it. So she jots down her email and says, here you can email it to me. No big deal right? Well, as we were walking out my girlfriend takes my arm, pulls me close and says, I haven't felt jealous like that in forever! Only then did I realize that there was more to that interaction than a pizza dough recipe! Was I perturbed about it? Hell no!

 

For just a few moments I felt the same way as a good looking woman in a bar feels. Appreciated, validated, worthy.

 

When they say they're sick and tired of getting hit on... the ones who actually are mostly stay away from the bars. The ones who frequent bars and complain... call it whatever you want.

[Els]

I think that women who go to bars and then claim to not like being approached are in denial.

---

When they say they're sick and tired of getting hit on... the ones who actually are mostly stay away from the bars.

 

It's amazing how in 2016 some of the people who otherwise claim to be all 'modern' perpetuate such beliefs. There are PLENTY of reasons why a woman would be in a bar that do not involve wanting to be hit on by men, regardless of the man's attractiveness.

 

1) We might have a boyfriend/husband

2) We might be wanting to spend time with the friend(s) we are actually there with

3) We might be busy

4) It might be an after-work drinks thing with colleagues which is pretty much required

5) So on and so forth

 

So it really is as simple as look at her body language and see if she WANTS to be approached, or otherwise if you flub up and approach the wrong woman and she says she's not interested, politely accept it and move on. It's not that hard.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Elswyth

[elaine567]

There may be a bit of a cultural divide here, but here in the UK there are bars and bars, some bars are pick up joints especially late at night.

However some bars are not about "picking up" anyone, just people out drinking and/or eating, some bars are run down, some bars are very classy, some cater for all age groups and families, some cater for a very narrow demographic. Some sell food, some don't. Some are "safe", some are "dodgy", it all depends on the bar involved and the clientele.

Suggesting that women in a bars are somehow all "asking for it" and need to put up or shut up, has not been my experience here in the UK.

[Els]

There may be a bit of a cultural divide here, but here in the UK there are bars and bars, some bars are pick up joints especially late at night.

However some bars are not about "picking up" anyone, just people out drinking and/or eating, some bars are run down, some bars are very classy, some cater for all age groups and families, some cater for a very narrow demographic. Some sell food, some don't. Some are "safe", some are "dodgy", it all depends on the bar involved and the clientele.

Suggesting that women in a bars are somehow all "asking for it" and need to put up or shut up, has not been my experience here in the UK.

 

Yeah, same here. There are certain, specific bars (that are more like nightclubs) where the majority of people going there, of both sexes, are likely looking for a hookup (although even then I would argue that body language is still important). But extending this to all bars just sounds really disingenuous. Drinks with colleagues, friends, even family are a big thing here, so nobody with any sense assumes that any random woman in any random bar is good for a pick-up.

[LookAtThisPOst]

...he's attractive enough that it makes you feel validated. That's not wrong, it's just the way people are, men and women. I'm a man, but I know how it makes me feel to get attention from high-value specimens. And it works just as well even if I'm not looking to hook up.

 

I think that women who go to bars and then claim to not like being approached are in denial. But this presumes that it's the right guy, not the wrong guys doing the approaching.

 

I shop at the local natural food store regularly and there is an attractive woman who works there. We've talked some, maybe even flirted a little, but she's 20 years younger than me... so, few weeks ago I went in there with my girlfriend and this young woman was working. I was buying ingredients for my gf pizza dough and she reminded me that I had promised to give her the recipe. I said, oh yea, sorry I can't remember to bring it. So she jots down her email and says, here you can email it to me. No big deal right? Well, as we were walking out my girlfriend takes my arm, pulls me close and says, I haven't felt jealous like that in forever! Only then did I realize that there was more to that interaction than a pizza dough recipe! Was I perturbed about it? Hell no!

 

For just a few moments I felt the same way as a good looking woman in a bar feels. Appreciated, validated, worthy.

 

When they say they're sick and tired of getting hit on... the ones who actually are mostly stay away from the bars. The ones who frequent bars and complain... call it whatever you want.

 

Are you referring to something called "Humble Bragging"? This means people complain about something, but are actually BS'ing people into thinking it's a nuisance for them, but they really do enjoy the attention.

 

It is funny how women get all dolled up, go out, and then complain about men approaching them.

 

But are they REALLY complaints or humble bragging?

 

I recall when I would go to a club, a really pretty woman would come up next to me at the bar, but she would be waiting on drinks though. I'd attempt to turn and make eye contact, but she's completely focused in front of her, looking at what's going on the other side of the bar, so I don't bother.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Forget what night it is. Pay attention to what woman it is, and how she is acting. Is she glancing your way? Meeting your eye contact? Smiling in your direction? If so, chat her up!

 

Hardly EVER happened to me at a bar or club, so that's probably why I don't do bar or clubs. lol If I DID want to get her attention, I would have to wave or get in front of her line of sight to do so, but that's crossing the line of comfort I would think.

 

I DO recall I was staying at a hotel for work with co-workers. Me and my collegues went downstairs, sat at the bar, and there was this weekly keroeki going on. We were staying in a small town, but townspeople would actually go to the hotels lounge to sing karekoki (or however you spell it, lol)

 

Anyhow, there's this really cute, southern country girl singing, cowboy hat and all. (This was indeed a country town). She was actually crowned "Miss Swamp Cabbage" few years prior at some community thing.

 

She comes up to me, thanks me for the drink I bought her, and asks me to dance...I was thinking, "Huh? I didn't buy her a drink", but apparently one of my co-workers was a wing man for me and hooked me up. LOL I thanked him.

 

A VERY rare, but nice experience with a cute "Daisy Duke" type of the town.

[GemmaUK]

Hardly EVER happened to me at a bar or club, so that's probably why I don't do bar or clubs. lol If I DID want to get her attention, I would have to wave or get in front of her line of sight to do so, but that's crossing the line of comfort I would think.

 

If you 'hardly EVER' you put it get several occasions of a woman giving you eye contact and smiling in eg a bar/club/Meetup even then no lady in that vicinity and on that day/night is interested in you.

 

Only approach when you get those signals from a lady.

[LookAtThisPOst]

If you 'hardly EVER' you put it get several occasions of a woman giving you eye contact and smiling in eg a bar/club/Meetup even then no lady in that vicinity and on that day/night is interested in you.

 

Only approach when you get those signals from a lady.

 

Bars, I agree....Meetups, they don't have to make eye contact with me for me to approach them, because people there are already there to be approached. It's a mingling opportunity, people are there to mingle.

 

Meetups are exceptions to the rule.

 

It's a given. Now if I approach them, introduce myself, but they don't seem to chatty, THAT'S my que to say, "It was nice to meet you" and go mingle with others at the Meetup.

Edited April 30, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[elaine567]

I recall when I would go to a club, a really pretty woman would come up next to me at the bar, but she would be waiting on drinks though. I'd attempt to turn and make eye contact, but she's completely focused in front of her, looking at what's going on the other side of the bar, so I don't bother.

 

She probably knew you were there only she wasn't interested, or too shy perhaps. That is where guys who can come up with a genuinely funny or interesting remark can get her attention. If that just isn't you, then you were wise to move away.

[LookAtThisPOst]

She probably knew you were there only she wasn't interested, or too shy perhaps. That is where guys who can come up with a genuinely funny or interesting remark can get her attention. If that just isn't you, then you were wise to move away.

 

Right, plus the music is to loud to say anything really.

[GemmaUK]

Bars, I agree....Meetups, they don't have to make eye contact with me for me to approach them, because people there are already there to be approached. It's a mingling opportunity, people are there to mingle.

 

Meetups are exceptions to the rule.

 

It's a given. Now if I approach them, introduce myself, but they don't seem to chatty, THAT'S my que to say, "It was nice to meet you" and go mingle with others at the Meetup.

 

Actually, no, if you go to MeetUps to find someone to date then you follow the same social cues as in a bar or any setting.

Making friends requires different social cues - but again, people look for those too.

Pretty much anyone can tell if a person wants to talk to them (or is lukewarm or not interested at all) before either one speaks or even gets within normal speaking volume distance.

[elaine567]

Actually, no, if you go to MeetUps to find someone to date then you follow the same social cues as in a bar or any setting.

Making friends requires different social cues - but again, people look for those too.

Pretty much anyone can tell if a person wants to talk to them (or is lukewarm or not interested at all) before either one speaks or even gets within normal speaking volume distance.

 

I have a feeling that some men who find this difficult, are actually on the autistic spectrum (most likely undiagnosed) and genuinely cannot tell if someone is interested or not.

[salparadise]

It's amazing how in 2016 some of the people who otherwise claim to be all 'modern' perpetuate such beliefs. There are PLENTY of reasons why a woman would be in a bar that do not involve wanting to be hit on by men, regardless of the man's attractiveness.

 

So it really is as simple as look at her body language and see if she WANTS to be approached, or otherwise...

 

No, it's not really as simple as... it's as complex as the mating dance as humans do, psychology of self, social psychology, and usually which drink you're on now. Hey, women have a difficult time if it, I acknowledge that. I'm not trying to denigrate anyone. I'm just saying that everyone appreciates validation of their attractiveness, whether they admit it or not. Women are socialized to feign demure, so they often obfuscate what they want or feel. Men are allowed, even expected, to express theirs more directly.

 

How many threads have there been where women talk about how they want men to take the initiative, be willing to take the risk, act alpha and so on... but now you're saying that only women are allowed to initiate, and that men are supposed be meek and stay in their place until a woman gives him the look-nod-smile signal that she's ready for him to approach now?

 

Here's the catch though. A cold approach when a woman is not soliciting approaches is only going to be validation if the man is perceived as high-value. Most of the time the best looking guy in the bar will suffice if she already pretty confident of her own high value. Other times nothing short of a celebrity or famous musician would make her swoon. But average guys, nah, not interested equals offended, bothered, perturbed. It might even be taken as the opposite of validation if an average guy has the nerve to approach... as if he perceives himself to be on the same level.

 

Not simple.

 

 

However some bars are not about "picking up" anyone, just people out drinking and/or eating...

 

They're called restaurants.

 

Suggesting that women in a bars are somehow all "asking for it" and need to put up or shut up, has not been my experience here in the UK.

 

"asking for it" -- your words, not mine. I'm not saying every woman all the time in every bar or restaurant.

 

Are you referring to something called "Humble Bragging"? This means people complain about something, but are actually BS'ing people into thinking it's a nuisance for them, but they really do enjoy the attention.

 

Yea, something like that. Those who make a big issue of it, probably. There is a certain level of expectation already factored in (see above) that depends on several factors. All I'm saying is that everyone likes and needs some validation.

 

You take the women who are used to being approached, yet make a big issue of not wanting it, and if all of a sudden they went out NEVER got approached... it could trigger an identity crisis if they feel their feminine wiles are no longer being noticed.

 

Not really any different than a guy who's used to getting the women having a dry spell and wondering why the hell it's not working. Bring it on ladies... I know this stuff is irritating on some level. Just be realistic. People are NOT conscious of all of their motivations... women are not an exception to that.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Actually, no, if you go to MeetUps to find someone to date then you follow the same social cues as in a bar or any setting.

Making friends requires different social cues - but again, people look for those too.

 

Different social cues? I can't see how there could be a difference, as Meetup can be a more organic environment, so it's all rather moot.

 

Pretty much anyone can tell if a person wants to talk to them (or is lukewarm or not interested at all) before either one speaks or even gets within normal speaking volume distance.

 

Going to have to stop you right there...we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, in THIS case (Meetup), as I think you're pretty much wrong. Also, a lot of women I know would disagree with you.

 

Otherwise, it's self-defeating...I mean, why be a wall flower is no one is making "eye contact" with you?

 

That was the beauty of the invention of Meetup, to get people to come out of their shells, maybe they aren't making eye contact because they are shy? Ever consider that.

 

The Meetup's sole purpose is to counter the very belief of the whole "Eye contact and smile must be made in order to approach." We seem to but heads all the time on this issue, as if you had a black-and-white belief on it.

[elaine567]

They're called restaurants.

 

Er...no.

Not in the UK.

Never heard of pub grub, bar meals, bar suppers, etc. etc...???

[GemmaUK]

I have a feeling that some men who find this difficult, are actually on the autistic spectrum (most likely undiagnosed) and genuinely cannot tell if someone is interested or not.

 

I believe you are correct on this Elaine.

To most men talking of social cues and acting on them is just common sense to them as it is to most women also.

 

Some though, especially so on LS deem social cues as irrelevant to meeting and approaching. Social cues are vital.

[LookAtThisPOst]

How many threads have there been where women talk about how they want men to take the initiative, be willing to take the risk, act alpha and so on... but now you're saying that only women are allowed to initiate, and that men are supposed be meek and stay in their place until a woman gives him the look-nod-smile signal that she's ready for him to approach now?

 

Ditto THAT a thousand times over!!

 

I don't get how some of the women on these boards can say otherwise.

 

Remember those how some women would get irritated with friends and family asking them, "Why are you still single?"

 

With all these recent postings, I'm starting to see why.

[Imajerk17]

You know, I have mixed feelings here.

 

On the one hand, it IS pretty simple if you approach someone to tell if someone is interested. But on the other hand, there is some confusion and frustration on the part of guys that does have basis in reality.

 

I remember as a much younger guy hearing that women want men to approach but then hearing (from some well-intentioned women including my sister!) that they'd rather not be approached in the gym or running errands or when they are with a friend. As far as these signs of interest that many of you speak of, they just weren't coming my way. So, as approaching women can be tough as is (google "approach anxiety") I found this advice confusing and frustrating. If women want to connect with us too, why aren't they making more of an effort to meet us halfway?

 

I came to see that the answer was to approach anyway--and THEN see if the signals were there to continue. That has been the far more effective course of action. Very often the woman wasn't noticing me because she was too busy with the task in front of her. Anyway, a woman's day won't be ruined if you said that you saw her and that you had to come over and meet her or if you ask her what coffee she is getting in line at Starbucks, as long as you don't badger her. (She may not engage and that is her prerogative but as long as you are respectful you're good.)

 

Anyway, getting back to bars, I am thinking of my first full night in Sydney, Australia. I went to this bar in Bondi. There were these two attractive women who caught my eye in conversation with each other and an empty seat next to them. I asked them if the seat was free and they said sure. They sure weren't noticing me at the time, but I was still going to say something anyway. I then made an observation about them "You guys seem to be in an awesome mood, what is the special occasion?". The conversation took off from there just fine. I was interested in one girl more than the other, I made a point of engaging BOTH girls but clearly showing more interest in one girl more than the other.

 

Now, nothing really happened besides that one-hour interaction but it was a lot of fun anyway. (The girl I was into was traveling back to Adelaide.) If they weren't interested in talking to me I would have respected that too.

 

So to sum up, I do believe reading the signals is straightforward but I believe in approaching first and THEN seeing if they are interested (most of the time--e.g., if the two of them were having an intense conversation I'd stay away from that). I don't believe in checking the signals before making an approach, as you might end up having to wait an awfully long time.

[jen1447]

All I'm saying is that everyone likes and needs some validation.

 

There may indeed be some sort of difference of sensibilities between the sexes here but the distinction in the example of random guy approaching a woman (the ones who say they don't like it) is it's not necessarily a form of validation for her. If forex it's a cludgy approach that bscly says "I want to sleep with you," that'll pretty much only be pleasing to pleasers. (Which not coincidentally is why it's easier to hookup with esteem-challenged women.) An average women isn't necessarily validated by knowing a stranger would like to put his penis in her vagina and then slink off into the night. Might be different if these approaches didn't usually have the 'get-with' agenda behind the initial facade, like just telling someone that you think she has very pretty eyes and asking if you can buy her a drink and then leaving her alone.

 

btw your grocery story was kinda charming in that it shows how your GF handles jealousy moments - w/poise and restraint. Means she's secure in herself and you, which I'm sure you deserve some credit for.

 

I have a feeling that some men who find this difficult, are actually on the autistic spectrum (most likely undiagnosed) and genuinely cannot tell if someone is interested or not.

I believe you are correct on this Elaine.

To most men talking of social cues and acting on them is just common sense to them as it is to most women also.

 

Some though, especially so on LS deem social cues as irrelevant to meeting and approaching. Social cues are vital.

 

At the risk of angering the diagnosis dissenters, that's actually a really interesting idea. It would certainly explain what to many seems like a baffling lack of discretion.

[LookAtThisPOst]

There may indeed be some sort of difference of sensibilities between the sexes here but the distinction in the example of random guy approaching a woman (the ones who say they don't like it) is it's not necessarily a form of validation for her. If forex it's a cludgy approach that bscly says "I want to sleep with you," that'll pretty much only be pleasing to pleasers. (Which not coincidentally is why it's easier to hookup with esteem-challenged women.) An average women isn't necessarily validated by knowing a stranger would like to put his penis in her vagina and then slink off into the night. Might be different if these approaches didn't usually have the 'get-with' agenda behind the initial facade, like just telling someone that you think she has very pretty eyes and asking if you can buy her a drink and then leaving her alone.

 

btw your grocery story was kinda charming in that it shows how your GF handles jealousy moments - w/poise and restraint. Means she's secure in herself and you, which I'm sure you deserve some credit for.

 

 

 

At the risk of angering the diagnosis dissenters, that's actually a really interesting idea. It would certainly explain what to many seems like a baffling lack of discretion.

 

I would think that someone going as far as referring to someone as being "autistic" just because they didn't get the "come hither look from across the room" is quite ridiculous.

 

Now, I knew of guys that would continue to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, to people incessantly, without picking up on the other person's, "Well, anyway, I need to get running." and the guy is still talking to them...this has happened with people both male and female.

 

Usually it comes with overstaying their welcome when the person that'd dealing with said incessant talker and just plows over any statements said that they need to go.

 

But just to label someone as "autistic" because you didn't give them a "come hither" look or perhaps drop the white hanky? You may truly want to think about that...do you REALLY believe that?

 

I've noticed some women tend to get some kind of joy out of labeling men they aren't interested in, approaching them. They get a rise out of making fun of the guy or something. It makes them feel better about themselves. Just as one may label the man being "autistic", one could usually consider the counter behavior of those of which are "elitist" types that think they're too good for the person approaching them.

 

Making a dig about that person being autistic is just such an example which is obviously an absurd way of thinking.

[jen1447]

Not sure where in the universe you picked the notion that elaine and Gemma were suggesting that women use "autistic" as a baseless and generic insult for men that they dismiss in bars. I mean that was absolutely nowhere in anything they said. Obviously what they were actually suggesting is that it's possible that some men who struggle to interpret what seem to be unmistakable social signals of 'stay away' looks or lack of looks and interpret them as encouragement to approach or just fail to interpret them at all might literally have some degree of autism.