I'm Following My Youngest Kid Out The Door

[oldshirt]

she may be a bad wife and she may be cheater and she may be wretched person, but she's probably not dumb. She likely knows that he has been chronically dissatisfied with her and the marriage for a long, long time.

 

 

If she has an ounce of brains, she has had to have known that the ax would come down eventually.

 

 

Does it really matter if it comes down on a Monday or Thursday or a Saturday?

 

 

She is not going to have to do anything fundamentally different if he tells her today, vs if she comes home from work one day and finds his stuff gone and papers sitting on the table.

[SammySammy]

ShatteredLady thank you. You have given me alot to think about.

 

That's garbage, man.

 

What closure means to women is give them the opportunity to manipulate you into doing things their way. If that doesn't work, let them make you feel like the bad guy for leaving. That's what "closure" means.

 

You're a man. You've made up your mind. That's all the closure you need.

 

As I said before, you don't owe anybody anything. Don't let these people make you feel like you have to do something to make this a "nice" exit. You've been far too nice for far too long.

 

For once, do something on your terms. Hold your head high and stroll out. Not feeling the need to appease anyone.

[dreamingoftigers]

I disagree. You don't owe her anything. In fact, you have given her more than she deserves. Avoiding unnecessary drama isn't conflict avoidance. I would call that insanity avoidance. Keep your sanity, walk away. She will know why.

 

It's not 'insanity ' for someone who thinks they are reconciled for fifteen years to be more than a little surprised that they spouse leaves an empty house behind

 

It's not a competition over "whos the bigger a-hole."

It's about standing tall with your decision and doing your best to part amicably, whether or not she's been an arsehole before.

 

I view it as having self-respect. I'm not going to let someone else push me around or mind-screw me. But I'm not going to let someone change me into a slinking coward either. Especially over shyte they did 15 years ago, that in the subsequent years, I accepted but no longer do.

 

If his wife was still actively cheating, abusing, denigrating etc. That would be a whole other story. But this "I don't wanna deal with it."

 

I am in similar circs with my own husband. Seriously. But if I was going to walk (which remains a strong possibility because he's sure backburnering the sex!) I would leave out the front. I didn't do anything worth the way I was treated. At this point he isn't a "bad person." And I have enough self-regard and regard for how to end a marriage, that I wouldn't be inflicting any more trauma than necessary in the name of avoiding the actual circumstance.

 

I think he owes it to HIMSELF to stand tall, and to his daughters bow to respond to a situation like this with dignity.

[Bufo]

Tell her you don't want to be "unequally yoked"'with a serial cheater who has now abandoned the biblical precepts of a true marriage. Ditto for her pastor who will know the biblical reference very well.

 

Adultery is recognized in the bible as reason for divorce. You stayed with a serial cheater for the benefit of your children, but they are now old enough to be independent of your daily guidance.

 

What else is there to say? "How can you do this to me?!?" Answer: the bible teaches that adultery is the sole ground for divorce. You have been an adulterer at least twice. We are unequally yoked. So I am ending this marriage." And repeat as necessary.

 

"But I've changed my ways and thought you forgave me long ago! "

 

Answer: I have sacrificed my happiness for many years and not left when I have wanted to because of our children. But they are old enough to not need my daily guidance any more. So I am fulfilling a long held desire to end this marriage.

 

Notice the repeating themes. And never forget the all important non sequitur for her arguments: I'm sorry you feel that way. No further discussion or explantion is needed.

[oldshirt]

It's not 'insanity ' for someone who thinks they are reconciled for fifteen years to be more than a little surprised that they spouse leaves an empty house behind

 

It's not a competition over "whos the bigger a-hole."

It's about standing tall with your decision and doing your best to part amicably, whether or not she's been an arsehole before.

 

I view it as having self-respect. I'm not going to let someone else push me around or mind-screw me. But I'm not going to let someone change me into a slinking coward either. Especially over shyte they did 15 years ago, that in the subsequent years, I accepted but no longer do.

 

If his wife was still actively cheating, abusing, denigrating etc. That would be a whole other story. But this "I don't wanna deal with it."

 

I am in similar circs with my own husband. Seriously. But if I was going to walk (which remains a strong possibility because he's sure backburnering the sex!) I would leave out the front. I didn't do anything worth the way I was treated. At this point he isn't a "bad person." And I have enough self-regard and regard for how to end a marriage, that I wouldn't be inflicting any more trauma than necessary in the name of avoiding the actual circumstance.

 

I think he owes it to HIMSELF to stand tall, and to his daughters bow to respond to a situation like this with dignity.

 

I can't say that I disagree with what you are saying necessarily. But maybe we are just looking at this differently.

 

 

I don't see him as acting cowardly or sneakily etc I just see him as having made up his mind and just doing what he needs to do and taking the bull by the horns with the least amount of drama and emotional distress as possible.

 

 

I just see it as taking care of business and in this instance there really isn't any need to discuss it with anyone accept his lawyer and the court.

 

 

She will be served and given official notice when that time comes. That is good enough in this instance.

[WantingToLeave]

I definitely do not plan on leaving her destitute. Quite the opposite in fact. She will get the house and everything in it. I will be leaving with my tools, my guns, my truck and my personal belongings. I have a piece of hunting land I bought a few miles outside of town and I have saved up money over the years to buy a small manufactured home. I do not need more than a one bedroom house. Just enough space for me and my dog. That is for starters, then I will build a nice shop, the kind of shop I've always wanted. I want to build furniture and cabinetry and do furniture restoration as a way to make extra money when I retire.

 

My wife is a postal worker and will have a good retirement in about ten more years. We have refinanced the house down to where the monthly payment is nominal and she can live there quite well on her own salary. We have no heavy debt, and my plan is that we will both keep our retirements. That is the way I am drafting up the petition. I think she will see that what I am offering her is more than fair and equitable.

[oldshirt]

when he files, she will be given legal notice of his intentions to divorce and will be given time to seek counsel and prepare her case.

 

 

Those are legally defined requirements of divorce. That is prescribed by law and it is not optional.

 

 

What more does she need and what more does he need to do?

[BettyDraper]

I definitely do not plan on leaving her destitute. Quite the opposite in fact. She will get the house and everything in it. I will be leaving with my tools, my guns, my truck and my personal belongings. I have a piece of hunting land I bought a few miles outside of town and I have saved up money over the years to buy a small manufactured home. I do not need more than a one bedroom house. Just enough space for me and my dog. That is for starters, then I will build a nice shop, the kind of shop I've always wanted. I want to build furniture and cabinetry and do furniture restoration as a way to make extra money when I retire.

 

My wife is a postal worker and will have a good retirement in about ten more years. We have refinanced the house down to where the monthly payment is nominal and she can live there quite well on her own salary. We have no heavy debt, and my plan is that we will both keep our retirements. That is the way I am drafting up the petition. I think she will see that what I am offering her is more than fair and equitable.

 

I think there's nothing wrong with wanting to leave your wife. You're a good man for staying so long after everything your wife has done. It's also great that you don't plan on leaving your wife penniless.

 

I don't have children so perhaps I can't comment on whether or not you should stay for your youngest.

I will say that once your kids are adults it is time for you to stop living for them and think about what you want out of life.

Edited April 24, 2016 by BettyDraper

[dreamingoftigers]

she may be a bad wife and she may be cheater and she may be wretched person, but she's probably not dumb. She likely knows that he has been chronically dissatisfied with her and the marriage for a long, long time.

 

 

If she has an ounce of brains, she has had to have known that the ax would come down eventually.

 

 

Does it really matter if it comes down on a Monday or Thursday or a Saturday?

 

 

She is not going to have to do anything fundamentally different if he tells her today, vs if she comes home from work one day and finds his stuff gone and papers sitting on the table.

 

OS, how many times have we seen older women be effing stupid about sex and marriage? I don't get it personally. But it's a thing. Sounds like this one has the same stupid as a lot of the other ones have, buy I don't think that it is necessarily malicious to a lot of withholding spouses. No matter how. Many. Effing. Times. It. Is. Explained to them.

 

And does it really sounds like she's all that bright? Really?

 

But I will say this: I've come back to the empty, lonely house and been blindsided. That's not cool at all. It's traumatic. And it's been FIFTEEN YEARS of him accepting "status quo." She thinks they are going on a cruise! That seems to be a pretty major disconnect. The quick slip is going to be nasty for her, the daughters and I bet it will possibly bite him in the arse during divorce proceedings too. I would not be surprised in the least.

 

I think most people here are still trying to string her up over what happened 15 years ago. And yes, it's fine to walk away over that, but treating someone like they just did it yesterday is crap behaviour. Not respectable

[SammySammy]

The Bible teaches not to withhold sex from your spouse. It's not just about the times she stepped out of the marriage, but withholding sex for fifteen years because she's so religious now and acting like it's normal adds insult to injury.

 

This woman has been making a mockery of her marriage and this man for the entire time they've been married. This is not about punishing her for something that happened fifteen years ago. It's about leaving this sham of a marriage and moving on to a happy, peaceful life.

 

She won't be getting served for something she did years ago. She's DOING IT NOW! And he deserves to leave as cleanly, quickly and efficiently as possible.

[mellywell]

She made quite a few unilateral decisions over the years. I don't see anything wrong with you making one of your own, OP.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

OS, how many times have we seen older women be effing stupid about sex and marriage? I don't get it personally. But it's a thing. Sounds like this one has the same stupid as a lot of the other ones have, buy I don't think that it is necessarily malicious to a lot of withholding spouses. No matter how. Many. Effing. Times. It. Is. Explained to them.

 

And does it really sounds like she's all that bright? Really?

 

But I will say this: I've come back to the empty, lonely house and been blindsided. That's not cool at all. It's traumatic. And it's been FIFTEEN YEARS of him accepting "status quo." She thinks they are going on a cruise! That seems to be a pretty major disconnect. The quick slip is going to be nasty for her, the daughters and I bet it will possibly bite him in the arse during divorce proceedings too. I would not be surprised in the least.

 

I think most people here are still trying to string her up over what happened 15 years ago. And yes, it's fine to walk away over that, but treating someone like they just did it yesterday is crap behaviour. Not respectable

 

I have to disagree again. He has done much on everyone else's terms. Respecting everyone's wishes and making sacrifices all along has gotten him in the situation to begin with. He did it for noble reasons. I'm not questioning his decision to stay for his kids. But he has lived and lived and lived for others. Put his life on the line for you and me. Put his happiness on hold for his kids. Its high time to do things for himself. That isn't slinking off. That's standing up for yourself. Doing things on his own terms. To me, slinking off on this would be to do it on someone else's terms at this point where he finally made up his mind to take a stand for himself and his happiness. Slinking off would be to go against his own feelings and doing this for others yet again. THAT would be Slinking off IMO in this situation.

[WantingToLeave]

My wife is not an inherently bad person. She looks back on what she did fifteen years ago as an aberration of character. She claims she got swept up in the excitement of being with this guy. She got in over her head. Within a couple of weeks he was getting into some wild sexual stuff with him and the group of people they were hanging out with. Then he just disappeared one day and left her out in the middle of nowhere basically. She called me to come get her and I would not. Her brother drove out to get her.

 

She has never let me live that down by the way. She leaves me for a month and goes on a sex holiday with her boyfriend and has wild group sex parties with a bunch of biker folks, and then had the audacity to complain that I wouldn't come get her!!!!

 

She still, to this day, has the gall to get mad at me about that whenever it comes up. That is just one of the many issues I have with her. Just that kind of hypocrisy is what has killed any love I had left for her. There are so many other things that she does which prove to me that she is not really remorseful for what she did. She thinks she got away with it and that that whole occurrence should be a forgotten blot on our marriage. Jesus and the church forgave her, so then I must. Well, she has not once truly asked me for forgiveness. Not once.

 

So this is why I am debating with myself whether I should tell her I am leaving or just leave.

[oldshirt]

OS, how many times have we seen older women be effing stupid about sex and marriage? I don't get it personally. But it's a thing. Sounds like this one has the same stupid as a lot of the other ones have, buy I don't think that it is necessarily malicious to a lot of withholding spouses. No matter how. Many. Effing. Times. It. Is. Explained to them.

 

And does it really sounds like she's all that bright? Really?

 

But I will say this: I've come back to the empty, lonely house and been blindsided. That's not cool at all. It's traumatic. And it's been FIFTEEN YEARS of him accepting "status quo." She thinks they are going on a cruise! That seems to be a pretty major disconnect. The quick slip is going to be nasty for her, the daughters and I bet it will possibly bite him in the arse during divorce proceedings too. I would not be surprised in the least.

 

I think most people here are still trying to string her up over what happened 15 years ago. And yes, it's fine to walk away over that, but treating someone like they just did it yesterday is crap behaviour. Not respectable

 

How will it bite him in the arse?

 

 

And what should he do instead?

[WantingToLeave]

Case in point: about eight years ago a warehouse fire broke loose and my station was dispatched. I was running the hose boom and a canister blew up and the fire cloud engulfed me and another firefighter. Our protective gear saved us but I still got third degree burns around my neck. I had to go to the hospital.

 

My oldest daughter was the first to arrive, then my brother in law and then one of my friends. My wife finally managed to show up about two and a half hours later. The hospital was about five miles from her work.

 

Wow. Thank you wife. I'm sorry you had to pull away from your busy schedule sorting mail to come to the ER just to come and make sure I was okay.

 

The point is I am very low on her priorities. I'm the husband. That is the role I play. Not "her husband". "The husband."

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

Case in point: about eight years ago a warehouse fire broke loose and my station was dispatched. I was running the hose boom and a canister blew up and the fire cloud engulfed me and another firefighter. Our protective gear saved us but I still got third degree burns around my neck. I had to go to the hospital.

 

My oldest daughter was the first to arrive, then my brother in law and then one of my friends. My wife finally managed to show up about two and a half hours later. The hospital was about five miles from her work.

 

Wow. Thank you wife. I'm sorry you had to pull away from your busy schedule sorting mail to come to the ER just to come and make sure I was okay.

 

The point is I am very low on her priorities. I'm the husband. That is the role I play. Not "her husband". "The husband."

 

 

All I gotta say is exit on your terms. Damn what anyone else thinks about it.

[SammySammy]

Yet, people feel that you must prostrate yourself - bow and kowtow to her - one more time before you leave.

 

Please.

 

I'd absolutely refuse to bow. Nope. Can't do it.

[Ladyjane14]

I read recently that there are basically four ways to "move on" after infidelity.. (wish I could quote the source, but I read A LOT )

In a nutshell, (1)you can stay married in a healthy way or (2)stay married in an unhealthy way. (3)You can split up in a healthy way or (4)split up in an unhealthy way.

 

Sounds to me like you stayed married in an unhealthy way. I wouldn't even call it "faux-forgiveness", because from what you've written here, I think you probably might have really forgiven her if you'd ever felt loved within the marriage. Not likely to happen once you've been cut off from the font as it were.

 

If it makes you feel any better though, most people don't understand emotional bonding that happens with good sex. I don't imagine she knew, and maybe you didn't either. If you could have repaired that part of the relationship, maybe the rest would have followed.

 

All that said... now we're talking about the choice to split up in a healthy way or in an unhealthy one. For that, I think it's probably a better choice to be up front and maybe engage a family counselor. The idea that you can just pick up and go is all about avoiding the pressure to stay.. explanations for your daughters, tears and pleas from the wife, phone calls from the extended family, the paster, etc. I get that. You don't want to deal with it and neither would I. Problem is... all that stuff is going to happen anyway.

 

You're just going to have to be strong enough in your convictions to withstand all that. Counseling can help make it happen. It doesn't always have to be about reconciling. It can be about healthy "moving on" and making sure that everyone has an opportunity to get some closure on the previous family dynamic... including you.

 

If you do decide to go that route, probably best to look for a secular counselor of YOUR choice who will support your decision. That's about as much concession as I'd be willing to make if I was absolutely sure of my course.

[dreamingoftigers]

My wife is not an inherently bad person. She looks back on what she did fifteen years ago as an aberration of character. She claims she got swept up in the excitement of being with this guy. She got in over her head. Within a couple of weeks he was getting into some wild sexual stuff with him and the group of people they were hanging out with. Then he just disappeared one day and left her out in the middle of nowhere basically. She called me to come get her and I would not. Her brother drove out to get her.

 

She has never let me live that down by the way. She leaves me for a month and goes on a sex holiday with her boyfriend and has wild group sex parties with a bunch of biker folks, and then had the audacity to complain that I wouldn't come get her!!!!

 

She still, to this day, has the gall to get mad at me about that whenever it comes up. That is just one of the many issues I have with her. Just that kind of hypocrisy is what has killed any love I had left for her. There are so many other things that she does which prove to me that she is not really remorseful for what she did. She thinks she got away with it and that that whole occurrence should be a forgotten blot on our marriage. Jesus and the church forgave her, so then I must. Well, she has not once truly asked me for forgiveness. Not once.

 

So this is why I am debating with myself whether I should tell her I am leaving or just leave.

 

Yeah, that's BS.

 

My husband has some bullshyte things too that he gets pissy about.

 

One used to be that when stuff was brought up that was bad between us, he will fly on the defensive and act like I tried to "steal his car from him" at one point.

 

Here's what ACTUALLY happened. I went to deal with the insurance on the vehicle we got in exchange for a cleaning job we did. The insurance lady needed papers signed. We had everything ready to go in my name, he was listed as a driver etc. But he wasn't able to come to the appointment with me. All I had to do was sign the papers. Then she looked at the bill of sale. It was in his name, so required his signature. So instead of rescheduling into the next week, SHE crossed his name out and put mine. Shouldn't have been a big deal. We are married. Trusted each other AT THAT POINT.

 

So anyway, he goes off the rails, starts drinking cheating etc etc etc. He leaves me with our daughter and just screws off to Cheaterville down by the river. His car breaks down. So he comes up and demands the only other vehicle, the Mazda. And says, 'it's in my name, you have to give it to me.' And that's when after the shock wears off a bit, I say "no it's actually not. It's in mine because Vicky bad to change it so we could register it."

 

As if I should have given it over anyway. I was working full-time, had our daughter and was sole-supporting her while he did dick all. And yet "I stole the car" which would have been A MARITAL ASSET and probably awarded to me in the event of a divorce anyway.

 

Dumb crap like that when really it would be a good opportunity for him to say 'ya know, I'm sorry I screwed you over like that and then had the nerve to demand the car and then accuse you of stealing. Because that was really shytty of me."

 

There's more, but isn't there always?

[dreamingoftigers]

I read recently that there are basically four ways to "move on" after infidelity.. (wish I could quote the source, but I read A LOT )

In a nutshell, (1)you can stay married in a healthy way or (2)stay married in an unhealthy way. (3)You can split up in a healthy way or (4)split up in an unhealthy way.

 

Sounds to me like you stayed married in an unhealthy way. I wouldn't even call it "faux-forgiveness", because from what you've written here, I think you probably might have really forgiven her if you'd ever felt loved within the marriage. Not likely to happen once you've been cut off from the font as it were.

 

If it makes you feel any better though, most people don't understand emotional bonding that happens with good sex. I don't imagine she knew, and maybe you didn't either. If you could have repaired that part of the relationship, maybe the rest would have followed.

 

All that said... now we're talking about the choice to split up in a healthy way or in an unhealthy one. For that, I think it's probably a better choice to be up front and maybe engage a family counselor. The idea that you can just pick up and go is all about avoiding the pressure to stay.. explanations for your daughters, tears and pleas from the wife, phone calls from the extended family, the paster, etc. I get that. You don't want to deal with it and neither would I. Problem is... all that stuff is going to happen anyway.

 

You're just going to have to be strong enough in your convictions to withstand all that. Counseling can help make it happen. It doesn't always have to be about reconciling. It can be about healthy "moving on" and making sure that everyone has an opportunity to get some closure on the previous family dynamic... including you.

 

If you do decide to go that route, probably best to look for a secular counselor of YOUR choice who will support your decision. That's about as much concession as I'd be willing to make if I was absolutely sure of my course.

 

Even just straight-up saying "I'm not going to discuss my decision with every Tom, Dick and Pastor. I'm.out of here, consider this it."

[Ladyjane14]

Even just straight-up saying "I'm not going to discuss my decision with every Tom, Dick and Pastor. I'm.out of here, consider this it."

 

Well, exactly. Step one is having enough resolve in your choice to tell people what it is.

[66Charger]

If you treat your dog badly, your dog will do 1 of 3 things.

 

1. Turn around and bite you

2. Roll over and die

3. Leave

 

Whatever your dog does, why should you be surprised?

 

The OP is not willing to roll over and die. The notion that she doesnt know that SHE abandoned this marriage years ago is ridiculous. Using religion to abandon intimacy is a straight out lie. She received what she wanted. Him staying to take care of the kids and a "perfect family" to the outside world. What did he receive? Nothing. Pity sex once a month.

 

And he owes her?

 

Any attempt by her to keep the stautus quo, would be simply that. This guy is done. He has done his time. It is time to go. He owes her what is legaly right. Since she abandoned emotion, he does not owe her what is moraly or "emotionally" right. There are those who feel they deserve everything, irregardless of their bad behaviour. Really?

 

Leave on YOUR terms and dont look back. Stay in touch with your children.

 

If you treat someone badly for years, you deserve nothing. And you shouldnt be surprised when you receive it.

[ChickiePops]

OP..have you been making your dissatisfaction clear for the past 15 years? Have you spoken up? Attempted to fix things? Confronted her?

 

Or have you been pretending everything was ok to avoid confrontation?

 

The answer to this will have a lot to do with my opinion on how to handle the impending divorce...

[ShatteredLady]

A spare bedroom so your daughters & future grandchildren could sleepover sometimes would be nice but if it's not in the budget I completely understand. As a daughter I would (deep inside, eventually) rather my Dad took his share of the house so he could do that...rather than leaving my Mum with everything but it's your choice. (I'm a daddy's girl but a nice sofa bed is a solution)

 

 

Back to the main issue....

 

"After 25 years of marriage my Mum came home & my Dad had moved out leaving divorce papers on the table! He never even told her why or where he had gone!" (She was completely blindsided. Had been planning their anniversary..."

 

If you can look deep inside & tell me you're ok with that being the story of your family....ok.

 

Some angry, bitter people (I'm one of those by the way! My fantasies are truly evil at times!) on the Internet may understand & support you. Do you think your children will? Can you truly tell me that YOU are ok with that?

 

"After 25 years of marriage my Mum came home. My Dad sat her down & clearly explained why he couldn't stay in the marriage any longer. Gave her the divorce papers." (She was blindsided but he explained...)

 

Which sounds better to YOU?

[WantingToLeave]

ChickiePops thse are fair questions.

 

Yes I did my my dissatisfaction with our sex life known to her on a multitude of occasions. I never badgered her, but I also would let her know that it hurt me that she did not want to have sex with me. I was never fat (I'm a firefighter...quite the opposite) and I always tried to do romantic things for her. I'm muscular and I am proud to say that I am well endowed. I'm just not handsome in the classic sense. And I really think she was just never attracted to me in the first place. She liked bad boys, always has, and I'm the hard-working blue collar guy.

 

None of that mattered much. She would cuddle and kiss me, but that would be it. I only got angry once and that was on our thirteenth wedding anniversary when I took her on a weekend to Las Vegas. I was hoping without the stress of the kids she would loosen up and we could have some fun. Nope. Just one ten minute romp, missionary/cowgirl boom-bam-boom the whole trip. The last night we were there I was furious when she went to bed early with no sex. I got dressed and left her sleeping and spent the rest of the night gambling.

 

When I came back in about 3:00 a.m. she asked me why I left I and I just lost it. I asked her why she was so eager for her boyfriend and have sex with all the men and women in his traveling f-ck party, but when her husband was wanting some fun and enjoyable sex, I got the scraps from her table? Oh man she pitched a fit. We fought for a good hour and I really said some ugly things to her that I later regretted. We didn't talk the entire plane ride home and she gave me the ice treatment for a good two weeks. That got swept under the rug too. It is my fault for not pressing it, but I just wanted some normalcy back so we would go back to being cordial. That was the pattern we followed for fifteen years. I would let things build, blow up, we would ice each other out for a couple weeks, then slowly go back to normal. Nothing was ever really resolved, and I think she preferred it that way.

 

That was my pattern. There were so many times, so many times that I wanted to leave, but then I would see my daughters laughing and playing in their bedrooms and I thought "I can't give this up. They are too important." So I just endured.

Edited May 1, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T