Why Happy Couples Cheat

[Timshel]

Okay, so what is your point? Are you saying that only people with bottomless pits of ego requirements cheat?

 

Your thread title is 'Why Happy Couples Cheat.' My point would be that if a person who is one half of a 'happy' couple cheats then there are reasons beyond being 'happy' that would lead them to cheat.

 

It would stand to reason that being a part of happy coupledyness is not enough for some people. Those some people would have needs that are beyond the needs of regular 'happy' folk if they are otherwise 'happy' in a relationship.

 

Personally, I have never met a person who is happy (content) in a relationship who also cheats.

[Robert Z]

Personally, I have never met a person who is happy (content) in a relationship who also cheats.

 

How do you know? You can't.

 

Funny, I never thought of cheating as a deal breaker. I always allowed for human weaknesses and life crises. But for my wife, not caring was her greatest crime. I could have forgiven her for cheating but I couldn't forgive her for having a heart of stone. Looking back, I often wonder if she is psychopathic. But I never expected her to be perfect and to never make a bad choice. Life happens.

 

In fact, I now wonder if anyone who would leave over one indiscretion even knows that love is. How can you love someone with all your heart and then just stop. That isn't love! To me that smacks more of ego and control. I remember one member asking me how I can still love my first sb with all my heart even after she left me. The question in my mind, how can I not? My love wasn't on a contingency plan. I loved her unconditionally and I still do a year after she left.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Robert Z

[Aniela]

Your thread title is 'Why Happy Couples Cheat.' My point would be that if a person who is one half of a 'happy' couple cheats then there are reasons beyond being 'happy' that would lead them to cheat.

 

It would stand to reason that being a part of happy coupledyness is not enough for some people. Those some people would have needs that are beyond the needs of regular 'happy' folk if they are otherwise 'happy' in a relationship.

 

Personally, I have never met a person who is happy (content) in a relationship who also cheats.

 

I can't think of one, either. A friend I thought was happily married, had an emotional affair, and that left me shocked (and herself, at first). She doesn't regret it, only the hurt that would be inflicted on her husband if he knew, but she was angry at him for something. She realized what was going on, and dealt with the root of the problem - even though she still felt a pull to the man she had the EA with, and sometimes regrets not making it physical. She felt that actually sleeping with the man, would have been the deal-breaker for her husband.

 

From the outside, I saw a man who was disrespecting her relationship with her husband, and herself, when he kept telling her that her way of viewing life was wrong (she was always monogamous, and had no interest in open relationships). He almost had her convinced to go all the way in cheating on her husband - and she wasn't the only woman that he was involved with. I knew another woman he was trying to woo right out of her marriage. She went into therapy to deal with things, and is now happier with her husband.

[Timshel]

How do you know? You can't.

 

Funny, I never thought of cheating as a deal breaker. I always allowed for human weaknesses and life crises. But for my wife, not caring was her greatest crime. I could have forgiven her for cheating but I couldn't forgive her for having a heart of stone. Looking back, I often wonder if she is psychopathic. But I never expected her to be perfect and to never make a bad choice. Life happens.

 

In fact, I now wonder if anyone who would leave over one indiscretion even knows that love is. How can you love someone with all your heart and then just stop. That isn't love! To me that smacks more of ego and control. I remember one member asking me how I can still love my first sb with all my heart even after she left me. The question in my mind, how can I not? My love wasn't on a contingency plan. I loved her unconditionally and I still do a year after she left.

 

I don't believe that betrayed spouses who choose to leave the marriage/relationship do not love their partner anymore. I think that they feel betrayed, hurt and most of all...I think that they question if the person they love is someone they really know.

I agree that real agape love never stops. It is a love beyond flaws. Does that mean we can live with/share with/trust our most intimate selves with a person we don't know? If a person cheats on you and smiles, hugs and makes love with you, who are they?

These are some of the questions I think that people feel when their 'other half' lies to them. Open marriages/relationships are different.

 

As to your ex wife Rob, it is clear how deeply hurt you were by her. You know now that she is only one woman.

On the one hand, you devoted yourself to a cold and manipulative person (ex wife), who left you.

On the other, you loved a woman (sb) who was not cold but she was not devoted to you..and left.

 

The question is...will you decide, make a choice to learn to love yourself?

There is a woman who will love you and not leave but how can she if you won't let her by choosing only women who leave?

[Timshel]

I can't think of one, either. A friend I thought was happily married, had an emotional affair, and that left me shocked (and herself, at first). She doesn't regret it, only the hurt that would be inflicted on her husband if he knew, but she was angry at him for something. She realized what was going on, and dealt with the root of the problem - even though she still felt a pull to the man she had the EA with, and sometimes regrets not making it physical. She felt that actually sleeping with the man, would have been the deal-breaker for her husband.

 

From the outside, I saw a man who was disrespecting her relationship with her husband, and herself, when he kept telling her that her way of viewing life was wrong (she was always monogamous, and had no interest in open relationships). He almost had her convinced to go all the way in cheating on her husband - and she wasn't the only woman that he was involved with. I knew another woman he was trying to woo right out of her marriage. She went into therapy to deal with things, and is now happier with her husband.

 

You are so right Aniela, there is always something underneath. I try so hard not to look where my friends are concerned. They want me to believe in SuuuperHappy and UtterBliss.....so I do.

Some couples really are content and have each others back. No one should be under a microscope, we are all only human, flawed and doing the best we can.

The best thing isn't not ever messing up, but knowing when you (general) have and making the effort to be better.

Yeh, good point. Thank you

[central]

Personally, I have never met a person who is happy (content) in a relationship who also cheats.

 

I haven't met any either, but I have met many who have open relationships, are swingers, or polyamorous. So, you can be very happy and content in a relationship, yet still want or need something else as well, even if it's only sexual variety. By extension, people with less open arrangements may still be missing something, and resort to cheating to try to satisfy whatever that is.

[TaraMaiden2]

I haven't met any either, but I have met many who have open relationships, are swingers, or polyamorous. So, you can be very happy and content in a relationship, yet still want or need something else as well, even if it's only sexual variety. By extension, people with less open arrangements may still be missing something, and resort to cheating to try to satisfy whatever that is.

 

Having been involved in Counselling for a number of years, I will say the above is true - but only for for a very small minority of those involved in such activities.

I cannot really recount the exact number of couples or individuals who were involved in such activities and were completely happy and content - either with the arrangement, or within their personal relationship itself.

 

Perhaps CarrieT can bear my comment out.... or not, as the case may be....

[central]

Having been involved in Counselling for a number of years, I will say the above is true - but only for for a very small minority of those involved in such activities.

I cannot really recount the exact number of couples or individuals who were involved in such activities and were completely happy and content - either with the arrangement, or within their personal relationship itself.

 

Perhaps CarrieT can bear my comment out.... or not, as the case may be....

 

Yes, the stats are elusive, but most estimates I've seen are around 5% - some range as high as 10%, but I think the latter number reflects people who've tried alternatives, but don't stick with them for very long. The lower number may reflect people with a longer term commitment to alternative lifestyles, IMO - and matches what I've seen personally.

[Timshel]

I haven't met any either, but I have met many who have open relationships, are swingers, or polyamorous. So, you can be very happy and content in a relationship, yet still want or need something else as well, even if it's only sexual variety. By extension, people with less open arrangements may still be missing something, and resort to cheating to try to satisfy whatever that is.

 

My brother is in a poly relationship. He has a live in gf and his wife has a live in bf. I know that he and his wife are 'happy' (there's that word again ) BUT....don't have a clue if the other man and woman involved are.

I will say that this arrangement has gone on for some years so if they don't like it, they aren't moving.

 

Note: I say poly because he still sleeps with his wife but I don't know if they all do and maybe it's an open marriage?

[health]

In Vietnam, approximately 100% of men have seen prostitutes. Are you suggesting that all Vietnamese men are somehow unique?

 

All men are the type to see escorts given the right circumstances. And I would venture to say that anyone might cheat given the right circumstances. If you expect your mate to be perfect then you will be sadly disillusioned; or at the least you are living a fantasy. Anyone can hit a breaking point.

 

Do you have a source for your Vietnam "fact"?

 

Many people never cheat their whole lives. It's called wholeness and having true integrity. I'm 34 and have never cheated in my life. Some opportunities were present but I didn't take them.

 

I could care less what someone other then me does so I wouldn't be dillusioned.

If a girl cheated on me, I'd leave her. I only have control over myself and I'm proud and feel a clean and enhanced conscience not having cheated or dealt with prostitutes.

 

My leadership in life would be greatly affected by those dark, dirty secrets.

 

As of now I'm good, clearheaded and empowered.

[Timshel]

I haven't met any either, but I have met many who have open relationships, are swingers, or polyamorous. So, you can be very happy and content in a relationship, yet still want or need something else as well, even if it's only sexual variety. By extension, people with less open arrangements may still be missing something, and resort to cheating to try to satisfy whatever that is.

 

Sorry.....I have been thinking about this^ and want to say more. My first thoughts were of the only open marriage that I know of, my brother and thinking about their lifestyle and how it works for them.

 

Your post goes beyond that though....it's hard for me to really put myself there. I understand the difficulty of lifetime monogamy. My mind is open enough to acknowledge that in a person's marriage, there are other attractions. Beyond this, that love is not proprietary. There is no ownership of others, including marriage. It is also true that so much can be learned by sharing with other people...with being limitless.

 

While I can intellectually wrap my mind around this...and in some ways poly/open may be superior towards universal love, it is a dynamic that personally, I can't tolerate.

Monogamy is my comfort.

 

To address bolded; if a person needs multiple partners to feel satisfied, then either be open with a SO about such needs and have an agreement (which you do) or do not marry or be deceptive with any long term relationship.

[sunking101]

How do you know? You can't.

 

Funny, I never thought of cheating as a deal breaker. I always allowed for human weaknesses and life crises. But for my wife, not caring was her greatest crime. I could have forgiven her for cheating but I couldn't forgive her for having a heart of stone. Looking back, I often wonder if she is psychopathic. But I never expected her to be perfect and to never make a bad choice. Life happens.

 

In fact, I now wonder if anyone who would leave over one indiscretion even knows that love is. How can you love someone with all your heart and then just stop. That isn't love! To me that smacks more of ego and control. I remember one member asking me how I can still love my first sb with all my heart even after she left me. The question in my mind, how can I not? My love wasn't on a contingency plan. I loved her unconditionally and I still do a year after she left.

 

I wouldn't stop loving her but I would have to end the relationship, and I would consider it her that had done so. She would have betrayed me, hurt me and shown that I wasn't enough for her. The fact that I could never trust her again would be the icing on the cake.

[Robert Z]

I wouldn't stop loving her but I would have to end the relationship, and I would consider it her that had done so. She would have betrayed me, hurt me and shown that I wasn't enough for her. The fact that I could never trust her again would be the icing on the cake.

 

 

So you don't allow for moments of weakness?

 

 

You should watch the video. People often cheat because they feel dead inside and they are trying to recapture something lost. Often the death of a parent or loved one happened recently. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't love their spouse.

 

 

She talks about passion having a shelf life and how marriage can be reborn. You don't necessarily continue with the same marriage, rather a new one with a deeper understanding of each other. I can completely see that.

 

If you can't forgive someone then I don't think you really love them. That is ego, not love.

[Robert Z]

Do you have a source for your Vietnam "fact"?

 

Sorry, I think I was thinking of Cambodia which claims near 80%.

Percentage of Men (by Country) Who Paid for Sex at Least Once: The Johns Chart - Legal Prostitution - ProCon.org

 

I know I saw one country that was estimated to be about 96%.. I thought it was Vietnam but I'm not seeing that now. The point is that this is primarily a function of culture. It is an ancient tradition. the oldest profession, and one that has been prominent in many cultures throughout history. When it comes to men, I firmly believe it is in our nature. Given the right circumstances almost all men would see a prostitute. And all men are subject to loneliness and life crises that can cause one to stray. If you think you are above this then you have a lot to learn. Everything you know and all that you believe about the ones you love can come crashing down in a torrent and change everything about your life.

 

Many people never cheat their whole lives. It's called wholeness and having true integrity. I'm 34 and have never cheated in my life. Some opportunities were present but I didn't take them.

 

I was married 25 years and went ten years without sex, and never cheated on my wife. So...

 

One member asked earlier if men who see prostitutes tend to be underachievers. Apparently she hasn't seen the going price for escorts. In fact the more successful a man is, the more likely he can afford to see an escort, and will. I know a guy who drops about $200-250K a year on escorts. And I strongly suspect that other men do this for the same reasons I do [i see sugar babies now]. It makes me feel alive, just as the speaker described about having an affair. To hold a gorgeous young beauty in your arms at my age is like drinking from the fountain of youth. It doesn't just make me feel younger. My health and everything about my life has dramatically improved since I started this.

 

 

She says that passion has a shelf life. Perhaps this includes the passion for life itself.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Robert Z

[Shanex]

Often the death of a parent or loved one

 

Rob, I hate to pick up on you but care to elaborate this one ? How the loss of a relative can make someone more likely to cheat?

[purplesorrow]

So you don't allow for moments of weakness?

 

 

You should watch the video. People often cheat because they feel dead inside and they are trying to recapture something lost. Often the death of a parent or loved one happened recently. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't love their spouse.

 

 

She talks about passion having a shelf life and how marriage can be reborn. You don't necessarily continue with the same marriage, rather a new one with a deeper understanding of each other. I can completely see that.

 

If you can't forgive someone then I don't think you really love them. That is ego, not love.

 

I loved my ex dearly. I forgave him for cheating. Forgiveness doesn't equal staying. What defines a moment of weaknesses? His affair was 18 months. I happen to feel his ability to deceive me for so long absolutely means he didn't love me the way I want my spouse to love me.

[Aniela]

Sometimes I wonder if people I know are members of the board, or lurk here. One of the friends I mentioned earlier, sent me an email an hour or so after I posted here. The last time we spoke was six weeks ago.

[jen1447]

Why do happy couples cheat? IMO usually bc there's almost always a 'better' deal to be had somewhere and ppl are always looking for over-the-rainbow.

 

(There are a bunch of other reasons more specific to individuals and circumstances of course but if you're looking for some kind of cosmic reason for the phenomenon in general, I think that's it.)

[len51]

My wife and I have a happy marriage over 40 years now. We did not cheat because that implies there were rules against having sex with others. We played with others as a couple for two years but got scared off when most of the other couples we played with were getting divorced due to falling in love with someone they had sex with during a swap or swinging party.

 

We have what I call a monogamish marriage. We did not want an open marriage due to everyone we knew who had one, not surviving it. Too much chance of emotional entanglements and having multiple relationships is very stressful and logistically difficult, not to mention trying to make two or more lovers not feel left out.

 

We recognized that we would be attracted to other people and would want to have sex with some for various reasons; sometimes just to know others find us sexually desirable. It is a major ego boost. We did not want to have to "cheat" to do it or make it a reason to destroy a happy marriage. Our society is fixated on serial monogamy. It demands that you first destroy the life you made with your spouse, sell the house, fight over possessions, fight over alimony and child support, before you can morally have sex with someone else. Doesn't that sound silly to anyone else but me?

 

From our foray into various forms of group sex we learned two valuable things. The first is that we do not get jealous when our spouse has sex with others. The second thing we learned is that sex can be just sex and nothing like the love making my wife and I have at home.

 

In our marriage, sex with others was not a deal breaker or to be considered a betrayal of trust. All that we required was that sex with others was to be the exception and not the role. We still would try to be sexually faithful to each other since otherwise there was just too much risk to our marriage. When emotions come into play, we tend to make bad choices no matter what the consequences. If powerful and famous men could not avoid sexual infidelity with a lot more to lose than me, what chance did I have or for that matter, my wife. It is all well and good to say that we will be sexually faithful because that is morally right. First off, those are someone else's morals, not mine. Secondly it is not realistic.

 

Sex outside of marriage has been going on since the first two men and woman. Everyone knows about cheating and it is estimated that up to 70% of married spouses cheat, with men not that far ahead of women. Cheating is well know about and yet we lemming like enter into monogamous marriages with a wink and a nod to acknowledge that cheating is a part of most marriages. All of our siblings and friends ended their marriages due to cheating. Most of the men I traveled on business with cheated as well as every boss I had, even the female ones. At times it seemed that everyone was cheating and the only difference between those who divorced and not was due to either being forgiven, staying together for the sake of the children or just never got caught which seems to be the majority of spouses. Business trips out of town or out of the country are perfect times for cheating with no risk of being caught. I spent a third of each year overseas and that is a long time for spouses so many had sex when they felt lonely. Surprisingly, although that I could, I never di when I was on business trips. I was too absorbed in my work and since I controlled millions of dollars in contracts, I did not want to put myself in a position of being blackmailed or accused of favoritism because some women I met was actually on the payroll of a company bidding for one of my contracts.

 

We also agreed not to tell and not to ask to the extend possible. My wife knew of one time because I wanted to spend the night with the woman. She was a model in town for a photo shoot and she asked me to have sex with her. A once in a lifetime opportunity that I did not want to pass up. To this day I feel good knowing that I was desirable enough for a model to chase me. I used to work with companies in the fashion industry like Victoria's Secret and others so I came into contact with lots of models. Other than that one time I had sex with 5 other women over a 40 year period which is less than most of my friends had cheated with on just one year.

 

My wife turned out to be bisexual and more into sex with women when not with me so she just had a steady girlfriend that she shared with me for most of our marriage. She has steadfastly refused all attempts to have sex with other men. She does not find the male form attractive like she does with women. I am lucky that I was chosen to be her only male lover.

 

A friend of mine asked me if I was concerned that perhaps my wife was having sex with other men but I did not know about it. I told him that she could have had sex with 10 men a day for all I knew but if she did, it did not even cause a ripple in our marriage or make it less wonderful than it already is. We managed to give each other some personal space to enjoy another person once in a great while and it worked great for us. My wife agrees with me that had we been monogamous, like all of our friends and family, we would have been divorced like all of our family and friends.

[Grumpybutfun]

Hey Rob,

Perhaps they were content or ok but they weren't happy...at least with themselves. There are men and women who cheat because there is something very broken inside of them, something that a marriage isn't going to fix. I doubt people who cheat are happy with themselves. There is something they seek which is usually worth and value that they can't give themselves so they seek it from external forces.

There are a few of us, married people, who actually would never think of cheating because we are integrous, honorable, adjusted, healthy individuals in love with our best friends and having amazing daily sex with the person we most lust after...our wives. I don't think I'm an anomaly in getting the girl who is everything to me, I just think some people take that girl for granted or refuse to fix their own personality and selfishness disorders so it distorts or colors their marriages.

My wife once told me to please let her know if I felt I needed someone else in my bed as she would make room for her by getting out of our house. I have never felt something so vile in my stomach as thinking of what kind of man would do that to the person they committed to share their life with. It is beyond me how anyone can do that. I honestly find cheating to be so reprehensible that I have let friends go who became that kind of man. I have no tolerance for cheaters. Too many people do.

There are articles these days for every view out there, but I don't think happy people in general cheat unless they are they are sexually hypergamous or they have made a commitment they never understood or wanted.

Best,

G

Edited March 27, 2016 by Grumpybutfun

[spouse2016]

I found this video fascinating not only for its perspective on marriage, but also how much I can relate the concept of an affair, to seeing escorts and sugar babies. I never cheated but divorced and pretty much went on a sexual rampage.

 

She mentions that people who have an affair often say it makes them feel alive again! I have said this about seeing escorts many times here. She says that people use affairs to beat back deadness. That is certainly true for me and seeing escorts. But I not only beat back deadness, I beat back the desire to die.

 

I think everyone can benefit from this video be you married or not.

 

Quotes that caught my attention

 

 

One thing that struck me in particular is that we expect too much from a partner now. I have seriously started to consider that I might need one partner for sex, and another or several for companionship. How can I possibly hope to find anyone who can be everything that I need or want and at the same time be everything that she needs and wants? It is like waiting to win the lottery.

 

Well, you cannot possibly find or earn everything except on rare occasions. Life is a sum of trade offs. Change your attitude.

 

You cannot steal money from your partners / employers just because your salary /share is not big enough. You cannot breach your contractual commitments to them. Right? Why do you find it OK to steal integrity from someone to who you committed in a certain way in another type of realtionship?

[S2B]

I'm a believer that you can't give away what you don't have...and you are searching for something when you don't have that to offer to others (even your wife).

 

Look within. Something is missing inside of you. The reason why you can't find what you're looking for is because you should be able to get this love and attraction FROM yourself.

 

Searching and looking to get that from another is backwards.

 

 

How can you expect to have a relationship with another person when you continually say you are empty (in some capacity)? When offering a broken man to any relationship you should expect it to look broken to some degree...hence the way any of your SB will agree to see you is knowing full well they are taking on a broken man to date.

 

You get what you give - and you offering your broken self to the SB relationship is just you searching for a woman who is agreeable to dating a broken guy.

 

When you adjust your expectations then you may find it easier to settle into dating. Look for a gal that is willing to date a man that doesn't mind a broken fellow. Maybe you've been portraying yourself as the wrong guy...?

 

If you wish to offer a healthy guy to the dating pool then work on being healthy; being completely happy all on your own.

[acrosstheuniverse]

How did the "I have used prostitutes" conversation come up?

 

Hm good question... let me think.

 

Guy 1: we were dating and had a pretty wild sex life, pushed a LOT of boundaries. He told me all about the times he'd visited prostitutes, and I don't doubt he still does from time to time. We kinda had a 'tell each other our darkest fantasies' thing going on, and part of the appeal was being completely honest with each other about the crazy wild things we were into that we held back from others for fear of judgment. So that's how that came out.

 

Guy 2: an ex-partner. While we were on holiday in a European city he mentioned how he'd had a massage there one time that 'unexpectedly' ended in a 'happy ending'.

 

Guy 3: while dating, I went on a trip without him to a city famed for its legalised prostitution and he told me about how when he'd been with his friends previously as a 'dare' he'd slept with a prostitute. We were talking about how weird the red light district is when you first go and what the lives of the girls who work there must be like.

 

Guy 4: confided in me during a chat one day that his wife wouldn't sleep with him anymore, hadn't for years, so he'd visited a few prostitutes.

 

Guy 5: can't actually recall how that came about, I think we were just chatting and he mentioned how he'd been single for years but had been to a brothel a few times as he still missed physical contact.

 

I must add that at one point, in severe severe financial difficulties, I too considered sex work. I went as far as placing an advert, booking a hotel room and talking to clients. But I backed out before I went through with it, as the amount I could earn would be a drop in the ocean to my debts and I didn't feel emotionally strong enough to know I could go through it and not feel damaged on the other side. A lot of my close friends knew at the time I was considering it so it wasn't a massive secret, and I think possibly some of the disclosures above from Guy 4 & 5 were at that time, maybe it came up in conversation, it was a good few years ago.

 

Interesting. The thing is they seem like average guys. Here's the kicker question - do any of those guys pursue their "greatness" in life? Some major life passion?

 

I did research on people who cheat and the majority do not.

 

I wonder if it's the case with men who use escorts.

 

For myself, I work full time - but pursue a rewarding artistic passion on the side that adds to my income. I'm constantly excited by it!

 

Yes, the first guy. World renowned academic, gets paid to fly around the world lecturing, considered an expert in his field. The rest, nah just average guys with average lives.

 

Only guy 4 was actually cheating with prostitutes. The other four all did it while single.

[acrosstheuniverse]

It may happen in such a way that no lying is required. Say for example he or she is having an affair with someone at work, so explanations of time are never required.

 

 

That aside, do I take it that one lie ends a marriage? When you marry them, if they ever lie or deceive you its over? Say for example when you ask how he likes your new hair cut and he lies and says he likes it?

[]

That's like saying a lie of omission isn't a lie. It's basically trying to use semantics to wriggle out of it.

 

When you begin a monogamous relationship, you both understand that you only sleep with, kiss, whatever each other, and to go beyond that boundary is a betrayal.

 

I can't explain how little respect I'd have for a partner if they cheated, I found out, and they said 'but you never asked where I was on Thursday nights' if I always presumed they were at work. I mean, come on!

 

Having sex with someone else when you've agreed to remain faithful to your partner is a pretty huge event. So, to come home to 'hi honey, how was your day?' and purposefully not mention it, you know full well that is lying.

[brothers343]

Simple answer......they get bored.