what are your reasons to NOT have children?

[Els]

Reading this thread, I am wondering about men who have also decided to 'never' have children. Is there such a thing?...or do a majority of men fall in love and then fall into fatherhood or not, aligning with their SO's desires/fertility?

I haven't noticed any men without kids posting......?

 

Edit to add: Is parenting most often the woman's choice?

 

I think while more men than women are neutral on this and could go either way, many men do have preferences. However, the way I see it, having children is more of a conscious decision for women due to the comparatively short reproductive period. While older men do have an increased risk of causing birth defects as well as lower fertility than younger men, they CAN technically still try for biological children in their 40s, whereas most women cannot at all. So it is a decision that women typically have to make in their 30s, whereas men can still afford to waffle a bit if they don't know yet.

 

It's unfortunate, especially as in today's world, when you are about to hit your 30s you feel like your life has only just begun. But those of us who aren't 100% either way usually still have to make a decision by our mid 30s or so (to allow a few years to try).

[minimariah]

I did post.

 

you did! i'm sorry - you know i got distracted by your profile picture!

 

 

i do have a question though -- you said you never saw yourself having babies and still had them. what changed?

[Emilia]

 

It's unfortunate, especially as in today's world, when you are about to hit your 30s you feel like your life has only just begun. But those of us who aren't 100% either way usually still have to make a decision by our mid 30s or so (to allow a few years to try).

 

i think having to make a decision by mid 30s is a good thing. This is because what people tell me and what I experience is that you get to appreciate sleep by your 40s more. Sleepless nights are the biggest complaints by older parents. I can't even imagine....

[devilish innocent]

People always talk about how it's an 'investment' for later in life

 

The best counterargument I've heard is this. With the financial cost of raising children, you could store all of that money in a savings account instead. Then when you get old, you can use the money to hire a personal assistant to care for you at home. Problem solved.

[Els]

The best counterargument I've heard is this. With the financial cost of raising children, you could store all of that money in a savings account instead. Then when you get old, you can use the money to hire a personal assistant to care for you at home. Problem solved.

 

I agree. To be fair, those people weren't just talking about monetary investment, they meant that it would 'repay' you with a human who loves you and cares for you, and their argument is that a PA wouldn't. But as I said, I disagree with them - there is absolutely no guarantee a child would grow up to do that, and even if they did it sounds rather low to me to foist such an expectation upon your offspring who was never given the chance to consent to any such thing. If one is talking solely in terms of logic and investment, savings account is definitely the way to go.

[minimariah]

But as I said, I disagree with them - there is absolutely no guarantee a child would grow up to do that, and even if they did it sounds rather low to me to foist such an expectation upon your offspring who was never given the chance to consent to any such thing.

 

this.

 

i mean... there is no guarantee that the child will actually GROW UP - let alone for anything else.

[Els]

i think having to make a decision by mid 30s is a good thing. This is because what people tell me and what I experience is that you get to appreciate sleep by your 40s more. Sleepless nights are the biggest complaints by older parents. I can't even imagine....

 

Haha, true. I already value sleep a LOT - it's a big factor in me leaning towards no. I can imagine it gets worse with age though.

[TunaCat]

My number one reason is because I love sleep. I know parents have to give up considerable amounts of sleep and honestly, I'm not giving up my sleep for the next 18+ years.

 

Also, I am extremely selfish with my time. I don't want to have to worry about childcare if I want to go out to dinner or see a movie EVERY night (or even a couple times a week)

 

I love my niece & nephews, but I enjoy going home and sleeping in my own bed without a child-related care in the world.

 

Not to mention the financial aspects of having kids.

 

Nope, not for me.

 

I've known since I was 19 that I didn't want kids. I've only ever dated one guy (on and off for a LONG time) and he knew early on that kids were not in my future. I will tell any future partners the same thing.

[Emilia]

I've known since I was 19 that I didn't want kids. I've only ever dated one guy (on and off for a LONG time) and he knew early on that kids were not in my future. I will tell any future partners the same thing.

 

I always used to be very upfront about it. Now because I'm pushing 44 it's irrelevant but before I was always clear.

[Haydn]

you did! i'm sorry - you know i got distracted by your profile picture!

 

 

i do have a question though -- you said you never saw yourself having babies and still had them. what changed?

 

They arrived. Nothing was planned. They happened.

 

I remember feeling.... `my god there is a baby in the house`

 

Then experiencing total and utter devotion.

 

The rest has been simple since. (Sometimes)

[WaitingForBardot]

They arrived. Nothing was planned. They happened.

 

I remember feeling.... `my god there is a baby in the house`

 

Then experiencing total and utter devotion.

 

The rest has been simple since. (Sometimes)

Pretty much the same for us. We hadn't really planned on having kids, we'd actually been married for awhile, and then one day she got pregnant; you wouldn't believe what causes it!! ..lol..

 

Anyways, it was tough, but no regrets...

[Standard-Fare]

To the point of - well, who's going to take care of you when you're older? And the idea that parents with children will have a better path with that....

 

In ALL cases I've seen with my older relatives (including grandparents), they've ultimately ended up in assisted-living facilities and then nursing homes when they require it. And that's where they die and how they die - with strangers paid to take responsibility for their care.

 

In all of these cases, yes, their children did visit (some more often than others). But there was never a constant familial support system surrounding them during the last years of their life. On a day-to-day basis, they were on their own.

 

And this makes a certain sense, because to bring an ailing older relative into a younger family just tears up the dynamics for everyone involved. No one is equipped for that, and in most cases the older person doesn't want to play that role of constant burden.

 

My point is, these final years of life tend to follow the same patterns regardless of whether the person is a parent or not. That's a sad reality, but it adds to the argument of not having children as a "solution" to these hard final years. It's a cushion, it's a comfort, but it's not a solution.

[GunslingerRoland]

Standard, this is a separate and complex topic that should probably get it's own thread.

 

 

I know for me, I've had family that have died fast, and family that have died (or are dying slowly). I've had family members spend their last years in nursing homes, and while those were tough decisions, not every family is equipped to look after an Alzheimer's patient 24/7 in the home. In fact, I'd argue few are, unless they have at least one adult full time dedicated to that role and basically nothing else.

 

 

That being said, I know that there is a big difference between being dropped into an assisted living facility and being on your own, and having family come by regularly to visit you. You have people to advocate for you, people to bring you things from outside, plus the people you love to stay in touch with.

 

 

I'm not saying anyone should have kids solely for this reason. But for those that totally isolate themselves from family, expect to spend your golden years, more lonely than if you don't.

[BettyDraper]

Standard, this is a separate and complex topic that should probably get it's own thread.

 

 

I know for me, I've had family that have died fast, and family that have died (or are dying slowly). I've had family members spend their last years in nursing homes, and while those were tough decisions, not every family is equipped to look after an Alzheimer's patient 24/7 in the home. In fact, I'd argue few are, unless they have at least one adult full time dedicated to that role and basically nothing else.

 

 

That being said, I know that there is a big difference between being dropped into an assisted living facility and being on your own, and having family come by regularly to visit you. You have people to advocate for you, people to bring you things from outside, plus the people you love to stay in touch with.

 

 

I'm not saying anyone should have kids solely for this reason. But for those that totally isolate themselves from family, expect to spend your golden years, more lonely than if you don't.

 

As someone who had a career in administrative healthcare, I can tell you that adult kids often institutionalize their parents or get caregivers for them without giving two figs what happens to their parents. I once called an adult child to tell her that her elderly mother was missing. She calmly said "Then call the police. I'm at work. Don't call me about this kind of nonsense again because I'm too busy." I've consoled countless elderly moms and dads over the phone because their kids rarely make time to visit them.

 

My experiences are the reason why I laugh when people use the "Who will take care of you when you're old?" argument for having kids. It doesn't always work out like that at all. Plenty of elderly parents are left to flounder and suffer when they have adult children. I had a very close pal who was in her late 70s. Her son rarely visited her despite living in the same city. I made more time for that lovely woman than her own flesh and blood did! RIP Jillian.

 

Childfree adults can also build close relationships with other young people in their family who will come visit as well. I have visited and developed friendships with childfree elders in my family as well as my husband's family. Though I don't see my nephew all the time, that child will blow up my phone because he wants to talk to his auntie. I have adolescent cousins who call me for advice or just because they want to chat. The idea that being a parent is insurance against loneliness in old age is completely false.

[SpiralOut]

I like my free time too much to give it up. I'm also not financially stable enough to provide for a child. Plus there are things on my "to-do" list, such as travelling, that I would like to check off before settling down. I might want to have kids in the future, but not now.

[Standard-Fare]

I'm not saying anyone should have kids solely for this reason. But for those that totally isolate themselves from family, expect to spend your golden years, more lonely than if you don't.

 

Yes - and admittedly this is a big concern for me as a child-free adult. Right now I have all the social supports I need in my life from friends and family, but I don't know if that will hold true in my old age.

 

I think the key is to cement some sustainable, meaningful relationships during adulthood that can carry on into old age. In other words, make sure there are people in my life who will have the incentive to visit me and check in on me when in the nursing home. They don't have to be my children.

[Emilia]

No nursing home for me, that's for certain. One way ticket to Switzerland when the time comes.

[Els]

No nursing home for me, that's for certain. One way ticket to Switzerland when the time comes.

 

Why Switzerland?

[Els]

 

I'm not saying anyone should have kids solely for this reason. But for those that totally isolate themselves from family, expect to spend your golden years, more lonely than if you don't.

 

This is something I can't quite understand. I think it stems from disagreement about the definition of the 'golden years' to begin with - IMO the 'golden years' are NOW. In your 20s, 30s and 40s, when you have the excellent health and vigor of youth to do what you truly want to do. Not some hypothetical phase near the end of one's life that may not even happen, or at least not the way you expect them to (morbid, I know, but realistic). I can't understand sacrificing the prime of one's life in hopes of having some nice 'golden' years 20 or 30 years from now. And even if one does make it to those years, there is no guarantee the child(ren) will be there.

 

I'm not saying this about you in particular (and I hope you do have a long and healthy life surrounded by those you love!), I just can't understand this when it is said to me.

[GunslingerRoland]

I have a number of relatives over 70 and they mostly have horrible things wrong with them, that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Definitely not "golden" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

This is also why I don't get people who are into extreme retirement saving, where they want to retire with enough money to lead a much more lavish lifestyle in their later years, while being extremely frugal and forgoing things like travel and leisure when they are working.

[Eighty_nine]

While I respect anyone's right to not have children and agree they aren't for everyone, I think it's 100% false that life with them has to be boring, full of stuff the parent isn't really interested, and completely child centered. I'm of the parenting mindset that children are better off having to adapt to their parents world than the parent changing their world to suit the child, anyway. Of course all of the child's needs must be met, but I think kids really benefit from having happy parents who have their own lives, interests and activities. I know plenty of parents like this in the 'alternative' city I live in, so it's absolutely possible.

 

For me I was on the fence about having kids til my niece. I liked kids enough, not particularly, didn't know if I wanted to change my life... then I learned what it felt (for me) to deeply love a child and decided I couldn't miss out on that. Plus, I spent my twenties traveling the world, going to school, dating, drinking, having a great time and I'm almost bored of some of that, now. Ready for a new challenge. Although, I only want one child and I have some concerns that while being exhausted from chasing a toddler around I could skip contraception and have a 'whoops!' I'm not comfortable using hormonal birth control, so BC will always be a bit of a challenge for me.