Dating someone with debt

[alphamale]

Then one day they drop a bombshell on you that they are carrying a serious amount of student loan debt. What do you do?

you dump them

[Mind-Chants]

My fiance is doing Fellowship after residency. She has got debt of almost around $ 300k. I am very much capable of covering her debts but she wants to earn her degree on her own.

 

Since we live together we have an arrangement where she covers her debts & her own expenses and I take care of the rest. Honest communication is key here about the concerns and implications. The whole financial situation shouldn't be the elephant in the room. It creates hidden fractures in the relationship. We had our talk when she started the med school 5 years ago. For last 5 years we are in a disciplined expenditure mode.

 

I have been quite fortunate when it comes to earnings. During initial period I arranged for extravagant birthday parties, anniversaries & V-Day and she felt compelled to reciprocate appropriately. She threw a big birthday party for me but she was broke financially that time. I had asked her not to have it. She took an extra hours to cover the party debt. Her extra time meant less time we spent together. I took a wise decision to cut down the extravagant spending on the special occasions. It struck me that it is better to invest in small things that mattered than big things we are most likely to forget. Relationship lesson learnt. I from time to time slip in gifts to her in a non-provocative way. Guess I can't help myself about this woman. My point is it's not a one man showmanship. You both need to work as a team to manage the situation.

 

FYI we are partners in crime for last 7 years.

 

AMJ's concern is very much valid. To reap the monetary benefits of being a physician you need to a specialist. Tough life.

[introverted1]

The kind of debt would make a difference to me. Student loan debt owned by a doctor wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Massive credit card debt from an under employed person with a new car & a flat screen who vacations often would send me running.

 

This. ^^

 

I'd also look at debt to earnings ratio. Yes, a doctor may have a massive amount of debt, but s/he is also going to earn ~200K/year (and maybe even get to keep some of that, depending on who we elect in November, but that's another thread). Moreover, there are various debt forgiveness programs available to MDs.

[introverted1]

A few years?? People can have anywhere between 200-400K in debt after medical school. New doctors working in primary care make terrible salaries in comparison to what they spent on their education. Their best incentive is to become a specialist, but that requires another financial investment while going through a fellowship program.

 

I worked in an oncology fellowship program in a very expensive city. Our fellows were paid $50K...I have no idea how they were able to pay rent.

 

I'm just pointing this out to say OP isn't creating a problem out of thin air. People assume all doctors make tons of money but that's not always the case.

 

Meh, even lowly family practice docs make over $200K once they are out of residency.

 

What Doctors Make - The Atlantic

[AMJ]

Meh, even lowly family practice docs make over $200K once they are out of residency.

 

What Doctors Make - The Atlantic

 

Well, I live in CA. Which on that map is all blue, meaning doctors here earn less.

If someone has a 400K student loan, they could be paying anywhere from 2-4K per month. At least 24K per year. $200K is the average salary for a GP, but after taxes and student loan payments, you're looking at taking home half of that. That's not much money for someone who went through medical school.

[katiegrl]

A few years?? People can have anywhere between 200-400K in debt after medical school. New doctors working in primary care make terrible salaries in comparison to what they spent on their education. Their best incentive is to become a specialist, but that requires another financial investment while going through a fellowship program.

 

I worked in an oncology fellowship program in a very expensive city. Our fellows were paid $50K...I have no idea how they were able to pay rent.

 

I'm just pointing this out to say OP isn't creating a problem out of thin air. People assume all doctors make tons of money but that's not always the case.

 

Fine, then if he marries her before they're paid off, get a pre-nup.

 

Easy peasy!

[adarna]

If you had a lot of money, and she knew this, I would say leave her. The whole thing would be her playing you so you could help bail her out of her debt.

 

*Could

 

It could also be her way of being completely honest with you that even though you have a lot of money, she wants to warn you that she herself has a ton of debt but she doesn't expect you to bail her out because she's financially responsible and clearly has her own career goals.

[ses]

If he wants to marry her... from his other posts, he seems ambivalent about marriage due to his prior experience with his ex. If marriage isn't a serious possibility for him then he should seriously reevaluate the relationship. Nobody should deal with that type of debt unless they're committed to the people for the long term. It's not worth it.

 

From what I've Googled, an endodontist makes less money than a doctor initially but has the potential to make a typical specialist's salary in medicine. We're talking about a dental specialty, so several years of residency isn't a factor. She's already completed it. She's not working in a hospital and ostensibly has her own practice like most dentists.

[introverted1]

Well, I live in CA. Which on that map is all blue, meaning doctors here earn less.

If someone has a 400K student loan, they could be paying anywhere from 2-4K per month. At least 24K per year. $200K is the average salary for a GP, but after taxes and student loan payments, you're looking at taking home half of that. That's not much money for someone who went through medical school.

 

So someone who has TAKE HOME pay of 100K/year... $8333/Month... Can't afford to live a nice life?

 

Really?

[Polar965]

The kind of debt would make a difference to me. Student loan debt owned by a doctor wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Massive credit card debt from an under employed person with a new car & a flat screen who vacations often would send me running.

 

 

This exactly. She had to go to a 4 year university and then 4 years of medical school. That is a lot of education which would cost close to 400,000 if from private institutions. She is embarking on a serious career and obviously is intelligent. If everything else is good, t here is no reason to run from this kind of debt. FYI, most doctors are broke.

[AMJ]

So someone who has TAKE HOME pay of 100K/year... $8333/Month... Can't afford to live a nice life?

 

Really?

 

Well, average bills and living expenses (in CA) will eat up nearly half of that. I'm not saying that's not enough money to have a nice life- but it's not a huge amount of money to justify the sacrifice that is medical school, residency, and 400K of debt. Not to mention the hours most doctors work. I was only bringing this up because a few people mentioned that OP was being irrational since doctors make so much money...and that's not necessarily true.

 

We're getting way off topic. The OP's girlfriend is a dentist, not general practice.

[Imajerk17]

I think a reframe is in order here: Look, she didn't acquire that debt splurging on shopping trips she couldn't really afford. Quite the opposite actually. So instead of seeing her student loan debt as a negative, you should look as a *positive* that she didn't let that huge obstacle of coming out several hundred $K in debt deter her from becoming a medical doctor (who as general practitioners don't get paid nearly as well as people think until maybe later in their careers), something this country *hugely* needs. Props to her and her determination!

Edited March 5, 2016 by Imajerk17

[Popsicle]

Oh I know, i'm not saying I am better than her by a long shot. If you factor earning potential, my situation is only marginally better than hers. I am just wondering if it is smart to combine our two problems into one mega problem.

 

 

I am in love with her, and would do it in a heart beat because I follow my heart usually, not my brain. I am just wondering what most people would do in this situation.

 

If I was in love, I would marry her. (well in my case, him)

[Emilia]

Most of you are assuming that because she has been studying so much, she will remain on this path and earn. That's by no means certain. I would not marry someone whose debt I could become financially responsible for, whether it's massive student loan or negative equity on a property, etc. Just too many unknowns to risk hard earned resources.

[Gaeta]

I heard most medicine student file for bankruptcy after they graduate to get rid of that debt.

[introverted1]

I heard most medicine student file for bankruptcy after they graduate to get rid of that debt.

 

In the US, student loan debt cannot be discharged through bankruptcy.

 

There are several legitimate ways to have the debt forgiven, though.

[DukeGirl83]

Agree that the type of debt matters. Student loan debt for Med school is not irresponsible. If you are looking at it like she owes this and I owe that she could look at you and say I make this as a doctor and he only makes that. If someone had no loans but was in a profession that will never reach six figures would that be better? The doctor will be more financially stable in the long run.

[PogoStick]

I'd never suggest someone go into dentistry. Dental school is expensive and their pay doesn't balance out. U of I cost is $170k for a resident, add +100k for nonresident. That's not even including 4 years of rent and living expenses. Nor is it considering the cost of undergrad.

 

Sadly, the OPs case, the typical dentist can expect around $120k gross. She can expect $3-4,000 per month in loan expenses. Unless she gets to claim that as a tax deduction she'll be in for a rough ride. Although with good budgeting and dual income it's manageable at least.

 

A good play for her would be to look into loan forgiveness for working undeserved areas. At least for medical careers, you can get 60% of that loan wiped for just 2 years of work, and another 20% ( i think) wiped for a 3rd year.

[MgoBluegirl]

If the debt was just student loans it probably would not bother me. I would ask her what her gameplan is to get them paid off. She needs to put together a financial plan that involved paying off these loans otherwise she will have them forever.

[Lady2163]

Disciplined expenditure mode. That was used a few posts back.

 

The question to evaluate is how long the OP and the woman he is dating are able to live that way.

 

I don't live in California and I had a couple of investments that really paid off.

 

My expenses, which include a 2200 square foot house and .5 acre of land come to less than $3000 a month. And that includes food and entertainment.

 

So, if you and your girlfriend were to live together, your combined income after taxes would be roughly $16,000 a month.

 

Disciplined expenditure mode. How long would you be happy living in an apartment, saving money for possible house purchase and paying down debt? How long are you willing to drive your cars? How long are you comfortable putting off having children? If you stay with this woman for the long haul, I think the rewards would be fantastic.

 

But it is getting to that point that will be work and sacrifice.

[Tayla]

final answer: Debt to ratio income.

 

Proficiency to repay.

 

I do not blend any debts or any income when in a relationship. So its a moot point. So some states are off limits in marital bliss....Community property states need to be avoided....

[mortensorchid]

What's the problem? Student loan debt is one thing, it's a career oriented thing. I have it, also had credit card debt from time to time, what else is the problem? America is in debt up to its armpits, me and others included. It's what it is.

[WhirlwindGuy]

Not sure what the problem is.

 

Do you have to pay her rent and food?

 

I don't think so.

 

It's her debt not yours. Even if you marry, it's her debt, not yours.

 

I doubt student-loan payments keeps her from making a decent living. Again, I don't see the problem.

 

 

 

Well student loan payments, at this level, could prevent us from buying a house, going on any vacations, doing much of anything really. For a long time.

 

 

Im not saying its a problem though, im just getting opinions.

[WhirlwindGuy]

If he wants to marry her... from his other posts, he seems ambivalent about marriage due to his prior experience with his ex. If marriage isn't a serious possibility for him then he should seriously reevaluate the relationship. Nobody should deal with that type of debt unless they're committed to the people for the long term. It's not worth it.

 

From what I've Googled, an endodontist makes less money than a doctor initially but has the potential to make a typical specialist's salary in medicine. We're talking about a dental specialty, so several years of residency isn't a factor. She's already completed it. She's not working in a hospital and ostensibly has her own practice like most dentists.

 

 

 

I would marry this woman, absolutely. Do I think we are ready now? No I don't. Would I do it now? Probably, because I typically follow my heart and am an idiot like that.

 

 

She went to school at USC for her undergrad, grad and dental programs. USC is not a cheap school in the slightest. Her loan bills are astronomical by everyone's standards...

Edited March 7, 2016 by WhirlwindGuy

[AMJ]

I would marry this woman, absolutely. Do I think we are ready now? No I don't. Would I do it now? Probably, because I typically follow my heart and am an idiot like that.

 

 

She went to school at USC for her undergrad, grad and med programs. USC is not a cheap school in the slightest. Her loan bills are astronomical by everyone's standards...quite possibly close to a record.

 

I'm a Trojan too! Only for grad school. Fight On

 

And also...ouch. Undergrad and grad at USC is very $$$$.