She don’t lie, she don’t lie, she don’t lie; cocaine....

[tiki]

I just think you're uber~passionate. It's cute. Until you get real mad at someone for doing the same thing you did.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by scarlyjones

who cares about some misspelled word?? Like Im being careful or the forum. As if that has any bearing at all on whether Im right or not....

 

The point is - you mock someone for making a mistake on a title, yet you're not the picture of perfection yourself. Can you understand what the point is? Maybe I'll write it one more time so you don't confuse your endless sermons as the point of the original comment I made. You're in no position to belittle someone for making a mistake on the lyrics of a song when you make mistakes in almost every sentence you write.

 

Dear Ms. Perfect,

 

Stop being so self-righteous when it comes to other people if you'd like others to overlook your mistakes.

 

Sincerely,

 

Ms. Clarification

 

 

Its born again people like me that helped me to begin with. Without them, addicts couldnt get sober. I bet you thought the couselors at treatment centers were just doctors and psychologists. Most treatment centers employ former addicts because they are the only ones who truely can understand an addicts way of thinking. So you can call me tired or boring all you want. One day you or someone you love just might NEED someone like me. So dont knock it.

 

While it may make you feel better to assume that you're the only one on this board that has visited a clinic for people fighting addiction, you're not. While it may make you feel like you can state your case more aggressively than others, you can't. You're not the only person that's overcome a battle with addiction or watched someone overcome a battle with addiction. You should realize that your glory in overcoming addiction is shared by others that have done exactly what you've done. Again, you're not a martyr for the addicted.

 

 

Originally posted by scarlyjones

Its been taught to addicts that you also further more addictions with honey. Saying "Oh poor you" doesnt help. All that does is give the addict the illusion that they are the victim. Oh poor me. Everybody is against me. Boo hoo hoo. Until you stop looking to the skies and saying "Why me, God?" and saying "I give up, God", you wont get better, ........only worse.

 

Never said saying "oh poor you" is the answer. I know I've made my point clear enough for you to comprehend. Once you decide to look away from the shining glory of your own crown you may actually see what people are saying to you. If you want to communicate effectively then learn how to communicate. You can be an expert in an area, but if you can't convey your knowledge in a way that allows people to relate to your words then all the knowledge you have is wasted.

 

From my point of view, and as I see others have complained with your approach, your tactics do nothing but alienate people from your advice. You are scathingly abrasive. Do you understand what that means? People read your posts and immediately they shut off any interest in communicating with you. All your wisdom and well earned knowledge is wasted because people don't want to listen do you.

 

Telling someone the truth, even when it's harsh, is a necessary tactic and I certainly, as you can see, assign myself to that theory at times. However, there is a rather significant difference between being candid and verbally lambasting people for their weaknesses and inability or even refusal to see those weaknesses. You claim you want to help people, but your idea of help is humiliating them and demeaning in order to make them see that their life as addict is worthless. It's not worthless - it's just imperfect at the moment.

[tiki]

WTF is this 'song' stuff? I must be missing something, or listening to the wrong radio station one!

[scarlyjones]

Originally posted by Pocky

The point is - you mock someone for making a mistake on a title, yet you're not the picture of perfection yourself. Can you understand what the point is? Maybe I'll write it one more time so you don't confuse your endless sermons as the point of the original comment I made. You're in no position to belittle someone for making a mistake on the lyrics of a song when you make mistakes in almost every sentence you write.

 

Dear Ms. Perfect,

 

Stop being so self-righteous when it comes to other people if you'd like others to overlook your mistakes.

 

Sincerely,

 

Ms. Clarification

 

 

 

 

While it may make you feel better to assume that you're the only one on this board that has visited a clinic for people fighting addiction, you're not. While it may make you feel like you can state your case more aggressively than others, you can't. You're not the only person that's overcome a battle with addiction or watched someone overcome a battle with addiction. You should realize that your glory in overcoming addiction is shared by others that have done exactly what you've done. Again, you're not a martyr for the addicted.

 

 

 

 

Never said saying "oh poor you" is the answer. I know I've made my point clear enough for you to comprehend. Once you decide to look away from the shining glory of your own crown you may actually see what people are saying to you. If you want to communicate effectively then learn how to communicate. You can be an expert in an area, but if you can't convey your knowledge in a way that allows people to relate to your words then all the knowledge you have is wasted.

 

From my point of view, and as I see others have complained with your approach, your tactics do nothing but alienate people from your advice. You are scathingly abrasive. Do you understand what that means? People read your posts and immediately they shut off any interest in communicating with you. All your wisdom and well earned knowledge is wasted because people don't want to listen do you.

 

Telling someone the truth, even when it's harsh, is a necessary tactic and I certainly, as you can see, assign myself to that theory at times. However, there is a rather significant difference between being candid and verbally lambasting people for their weaknesses and inability or even refusal to see those weaknesses. You claim you want to help people, but your idea of help is humiliating them and demeaning in order to make them see that their life as addict is worthless. It's not worthless - it's just imperfect at the moment.

 

 

You do realize that in telling me that Im not so unique and that Im not Mrs. Know-it-all,..you are acting as if YOU ARE?

 

hmmmmmmmmm.....

[scarlyjones]

And Im not sure how to "act as if Im the only one who has ever gotten over addiction" but I assure you that Ive never said that I thought I was. But I am ONE atleast. I can help those who are lying to themselves. Which is why I direct my comments to them. Addicts are NEVER receptive to hearing that its THEM who have the problem. They ask questions they design themselves to get answers they want to hear. When I give them answers to the questions they didnt ask (out loud, anyway) they get upset. They want someone to answer that FAKE question they asked about telling them the WAY its not their fault. Not IF its their fault.

 

 

Oh, one more thing. I wasnt correcting anyones spelling. I thought it was funny that she got the lyrics wrong. I didnt correct spelling. She used the wrong phrase, completely. And for the record,...I thought it was kinda cute.

[scarlyjones]

You know,...I really am a nice person. One of the nicest I think that you would ever meet. I just happen to take this subject deadly serious. It almost killed me. In fact it did. For 45 seconds in the ER. So forgive me if I see ignorant people doing the same things,....and try to beat it into their heads what they are headed for before they do it so I can spare them the same pain or worse that I went through. I dont want to see anyone get hurt. I really am trying to help. If I get stern sounding, I apologize. But I DO know what Im talking about and can spot a Bullsh*tter a mile away.

[tiki]

So please, do tell about the song...I had no idea what she was talking about in her thread title.

 

BTW, where is otterful?

[scarlyjones]

Its a song called Cocaine by Eric Clapton

 

The chorus goes "Shes alright, shes alright,..shes alright..........................COCAINE !!!"

[tiki]

lmao...I thought that song said "cookie" in a more voice like "cook-kay". I'm so naive.

[millefiori]

Originally posted by scarlyjones

You didnt even get the lyric right...

It might have been the emoticon that you used. I used it all the time till people convinced me that it expresses sarcasm, so most people here wouldn't read it as you considering the different lyrics to be something funny, but as you looking down on her in a condescending way.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by scarlyjones

If I get stern sounding, I apologize. But I DO know what Im talking about and can spot a Bullsh*tter a mile away.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with being stern. Certainly when discussing someone that habitually compromises their own well-being. I think, as I've stated before, that you have knowledge that many people would find beneficial. However, you should read some of the things you've written and imagine someone is saying them to you. After reading it, you should ask yourself if you really feel open to the advice after they've just demeaned and insulted you.

 

At this point, I'm feeling guilty for taking over BO's thread. My apologies, Harlequin.

[scarlyjones]

Ill take that into consideration,...thank you. I get charged up about it, thats all. I see and hear people ruining their lives or certainly going down that path as I did and I really want to show them the light. Ill try and tone it down a bit

[ReluctantRomeo]

How are you feeling today Otter, btw?

[blind_otter]

Yesterday was the due date for my baby, who was "born" at 14 weeks in December in the bathroom of the waiting room of the ER. I had to go to this stupid retreat for work and do the Myers-Briggs personality inventory. I'm an INTP, apparently. I like logic more than I originally thought. We had to play Jenga, too, to instruct us on teamwork versus groupthink. Duh. I still dislike my supervisor, my boss, and a few of my coworkers. I'm thinking, though, that the PTSD stuff prevents me from trusting people, period.

 

The instructor went on and on about trust, and how you can only manage your personal life and your reactions, and the only thing that went through my head was....I won't trust anyone, trust no one, they only end up f***ing you over in the end. The only person I trust is my Dad and he is dying.

 

I talked to my BF about my issue. He basically thinks that it will just get better when he is over here and he can prevent me from going out and hanging out with the people I know in this town. He is more understanding than I thought, because he has had addiction issues in the past. Like me when he was younger he did ecstasy a lot. I think a lot of sexual abuse survivors turned to that in the 1990s. In any event the lying was bad. It was ugly, though, he was shocked at how I automatically debase myself when I feel guilty. I was raised catholic, though, it's the primary emotion that drives me. Guilt. It does a body good.

 

For the record, reading SCARLYJONES' posts makes me feel like I've been emotionally fisted. I don't put her on ignore because I have this masochistic tendency to compulsively read the posts of people I put on ignore, so I skim over the content and although I understand her passion and her desire....you can't "fix" people, people can only "fix" themselves.

 

I said this in another post...her tone almost sounds like the equivalent of offering food to a starving man and then smacking him upside the head when he refuses to eat.

 

Besides, how can I give myself up to a higher power when I believe god(s) are just as deluded as human incarnations, but with better karma?

 

I can only start from day 1 again. I have studiously avoided interacting with anyone at all. Yesterday I was so desperately depressed about the miscarriage and the ugliness of last year and the trial coming up in August that I laid in bed watching anime (I got home early from the workshop, around 3pm). I called my BF and talked to him for a coupla hours. He is very paternal and fatherly almost, he reminds me a lot of my Dad, he even looks disturbingly like my Dad did when he was in his late 20s. Anyways, he is all concerned and saying that I just have to make it 3 more weeks and then I'll be visiting him, and then he'll be moving here with me in August. Wow, that's soon.

 

Anyways I was so depressed I laid in bed and went to sleep at 7:30pm. It was really sad. I kept thinking about that song, "This Woman's Work" -- my sister gave me a copy of it after I lost this second baby. I feel like I went through this emotional/mental pregnancy...even after i lost the baby I still felt it's presence steeped in every action or thought. It was just me, though, my clinging and my delusion.

 

I have an appointment with my divorce lawyer tomorrow morning. I paid off my student loans yesterday and am $15,000 lighter in the wallet. Now I have to sign up for the GRE and apply to grad schools. It's the little goals, you know.

[scarly]

Originally posted by blind_otter

 

 

.you can't "fix" people, people can only "fix" themselves.

 

 

He basically thinks that it will just get better when he is over here and he can prevent me from going out and hanging out with the people I know in this town.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These statements contradict eachother.

 

And Im sure you know that you need to be responsible for yourself. You cant count on him to keep you in line. What if hes not there one day? Its not the people in that town,...but the people in that town that you choose to hang with. Im sure not all the people are like that in your town. Just start hanging out at cleaner cut places. If you hang out at a crackhouse for instance, you're gonna run into a crackhead or two. Not that you would. Im just using that as an example. Hope you're doing better though. It sounds like you are finally getting sick and tired of being sick and tired. I hope Im right in that analysis.

[blind_otter]

Well I certainly don't think I can rely on him for my sobriety. That was just his response to the situation. IME, we tend to choose to be blind to certain realities. I am guilty of it, too....

 

But I am bound and determined to stay away from that place. It makes me feel dirty just thinking of it, and staying up so long...for what? It wasn't even fun. It was just me, running in place, with that terrible awareness looming over me.

[tiki]

I'm so glad you're back. I was wondering about you...I should've paid closer attention to the date.

 

Wow, a few more weeks and you'll be visiting him, and a couple of months and he'll be here...YAY! Let that be your stronghold if you must.

 

I really hope everything works out. I kept worrying about you yesterday, almost like I wanted to check on you...but couldn't get to you to ask.

 

Hope your day goes well, cookie.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by blind_otter

I kept thinking about that song, "This Woman's Work" -- my sister gave me a copy of it after I lost this second baby.

 

This song accompanied me on a regular basis after I had my abortion. Just remembering the lyrics brings a sting - does it not make you even more depressed when you remember it? Some songs, no matter what state my life is in, will always cause me to suffer emotionally when I remember the times of my life I have associated to those songs.

 

Kate has such a beautiful voice..

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Pocky

This song accompanied me on a regular basis after I had my abortion. Just remembering the lyrics brings a sting - does it not make you even more depressed when you remember it? Some songs, no matter what state my life is in, will always cause me to suffer emotionally when I remember the times of my life I have associated to those songs.

 

Kate has such a beautiful voice..

 

It's a masochistic habit. Music is a powerful venom. It infects your mood and amplifies your mood. It does sting but I can't get it out of my head.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Originally posted by blind_otter

It's the little goals, you know.

 

Keep going Otter. We're all behind you!

 

Yay for your boyfriend, btw. I'm so glad you told him. He's really good for you.

[Layla]

Hi bo

 

How do you get on with your parents? I always feel like when everything fails I can go and talk to my parents about it.

 

After all they're usually the people that care about you the most. Where were they when those horrible traumatic things happened to you?

[scarly]

Originally posted by blind_otter

Well I certainly don't think I can rely on him for my sobriety. That was just his response to the situation. IME, we tend to choose to be blind to certain realities. I am guilty of it, too....

 

But I am bound and determined to stay away from that place. It makes me feel dirty just thinking of it, and staying up so long...for what? It wasn't even fun. It was just me, running in place, with that terrible awareness looming over me.

 

Are you going into a treatment center?

 

I have the names of some good ones if you are interested.....

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Layla

Hi bo

 

How do you get on with your parents? I always feel like when everything fails I can go and talk to my parents about it.

 

After all they're usually the people that care about you the most. Where were they when those horrible traumatic things happened to you?

 

I get on fine with my parents. My father, however, is terminally ill and I will not put any extra burden on them at this time. Regarding the traumas? They were there. I just never told anyone what happened until years later.

[New_Wife]

Originally posted by blind_otter

Besides, how can I give myself up to a higher power when I believe god(s) are just as deluded as human incarnations, but with better karma?

 

If you listened in those meetings, you might have heard that the higher power is one of YOUR UNDERSTANDING. That means, it can be the group, it can be the mere idea of goodness, it can be whatever kept you alive when you were doing your level best to not be so. You certainly believe in a lower power - don't you? Cocaine, the pain of your past, basking in your glorious victimhood - those are lower powers. Stretch that intelligent mind of yours a bit & see if you can fathom a higher one. It doesn't have to start with a capital 'G'.

 

Everyone is so hard on scarly because of her abrasive delivery. Maybe it's a regional thing, but in my neck of the woods, which includes proud fellowship in NA since 1996, we bury more than we see make it to a year clean. BURY. DEAD. So no, we don't waste a lot of time with "oh you poor dear" and "your life was sooo bad." Well no flippin kidding. Happy Leave it to Beaver folks rarely wake up one morning and think "hmm...I think I'll become a base-head today!"

 

Most recovering addicts and alcoholics in my area are abrasive, no-nonsense, and intolerant of BS. Not for lack of caring. Not at all. But because we get damn sick and tired of burying folks who are so busy with the 'poor me' that they keep using it as an excuse to use with 'poor me poor me pour me a double' and we are at their funerals next.

 

Otter, if you want to kill yourself - then you will succeed at some point. That'll show 'em huh? NOT.

 

If you want to live, cut the crap. Your past is sad. And if you let it continue to rule you - that's all you'll ever have. You want a future? Run your sad butt to a 12-step program, and stop whining for 1/2 a second and LISTEN. You will find a lot of intelligent folks there. And you're right - they are VERY different from you. They are sober.

 

Best of luck. You ever want to hear my story, send me a message - I'll be glad to share. Like I tell my sponsees - you wanna get clean, I'll go to hell and back with you; you wanna stay screwed - go to hell by yourself.

[scarly]

Originally posted by New_Wife

If you listened in those meetings, you might have heard that the higher power is one of YOUR UNDERSTANDING. That means, it can be the group, it can be the mere idea of goodness, it can be whatever kept you alive when you were doing your level best to not be so. You certainly believe in a lower power - don't you? Cocaine, the pain of your past, basking in your glorious victimhood - those are lower powers. Stretch that intelligent mind of yours a bit & see if you can fathom a higher one. It doesn't have to start with a capital 'G'.

 

Everyone is so hard on scarly because of her abrasive delivery. Maybe it's a regional thing, but in my neck of the woods, which includes proud fellowship in NA since 1996, we bury more than we see make it to a year clean. BURY. DEAD. So no, we don't waste a lot of time with "oh you poor dear" and "your life was sooo bad." Well no flippin kidding. Happy Leave it to Beaver folks rarely wake up one morning and think "hmm...I think I'll become a base-head today!"

 

Most recovering addicts and alcoholics in my area are abrasive, no-nonsense, and intolerant of BS. Not for lack of caring. Not at all. But because we get damn sick and tired of burying folks who are so busy with the 'poor me' that they keep using it as an excuse to use with 'poor me poor me pour me a double' and we are at their funerals next.

 

Otter, if you want to kill yourself - then you will succeed at some point. That'll show 'em huh? NOT.

 

If you want to live, cut the crap. Your past is sad. And if you let it continue to rule you - that's all you'll ever have. You want a future? Run your sad butt to a 12-step program, and stop whining for 1/2 a second and LISTEN. You will find a lot of intelligent folks there. And you're right - they are VERY different from you. They are sober.

 

Best of luck. You ever want to hear my story, send me a message - I'll be glad to share. Like I tell my sponsees - you wanna get clean, I'll go to hell and back with you; you wanna stay screwed - go to hell by yourself.

 

 

 

Yeah newwife,

 

 

Im hearing alot of whining from some people but no ways they plan on changing it. Higher Power isnt always God. That is just a convienient excuse to NOT get sober. Your higher power can be a Pez Dispenser if you want. It can be,...and to alot of people IS,... the AA tables themselves. Meeting makers make it. Thats key. And yes,......you keep saying poor me,...poor me.......pour me another drink. Why do you think it is,... that you are fighting getting sober tooth and nail????? THAT IS WHAT THE DISEASE DOES TO YOU. Cunning, Baffling,...Powerful. One day at a time.....this too shall pass..............all these phrases sound like BS and are very cliche'. But how do you think they BECAME so cliche'??? Because people keep saying them. Why???? Because they work!! Stop making excuses. AA works if you work it. Go in and just TRY. IF you dont like it and want to quit,.. they will refund all your misery for free. You know what I think? I think sobriety scares the hell out of you. And you know what? It should. That means you're ready. Believe it or not, being terrified of sobriety means you want it. Think of the alternative.