Men shooting themselves in the foot by not agreeing to "friendships" with women

[jay1983]

OMG... someone finally put it into words. I thought I was the only one like this. I have friends that look at a guy and just know if they like them. I have to actually know the guy first before I am attracted to them. I also dont trust good looking guys.

 

What it usually means is "homeboy wadn't worried about if he gone see you again"

 

No, but really, if you gals keep getting these same results, it's your picker. I'm not "gone" blame you for who you're attracted to, but "I'm just saying"

 

Edit: BTW I disagree with the OP, I've never seen anything come out of the friend zone.

Edited February 4, 2017 by jay1983
Forgot about the OP lol

[mightycpa]

I also dont trust good looking guys.

What did I ever do to you? You know, it's really unfair of you to punish me for whatever someone else has done to you. It's like you being a racist or something.

 

Or is that just my "Handsome Guy Privilege" talking?

[Chris2016]

If I go on a date with a man, he's going to want to kiss me. Then he's going to want to touch me. Then he's going to want to sleep with me. Most men try for these things almost immediately, the first time I'm even meeting them. I don't understand it. I don't know you. I don't want to kiss you. I don't want to touch you and I don't want you to touch me. I don't want to have sex. I in no way have any desire for you. However, if I got to know you that could change.

 

In the past, you could go on a few dates and guys didn't expect you to sleep with them right away. And yes, I do know there are many guys who don't expect that but a. a lot of guys don't expect it but try it anyway and I feel uncomfortable, and b. you'd be surprised who does expect it. It's not always handsome dbags.

 

If I was allowed to take my time with dating then ok, sure. But everyone seems to be in so much of a hurry.

 

Respectfully, that's crazy talk.

 

The ladies here advise guys not to hang around:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/612321-when-give-up-2.html

 

But, I think this advice sums it up well, for guy or girl:

"date those who treat you the way you want to be treated.

[Chris2016]

If I go on a date with a man, he's going to want to kiss me. Then he's going to want to touch me. Then he's going to want to sleep with me. Most men try for these things almost immediately, the first time I'm even meeting them. I don't understand it. I don't know you. I don't want to kiss you. I don't want to touch you and I don't want you to touch me. I don't want to have sex. I in no way have any desire for you. However, if I got to know you that could change.

 

In the past, you could go on a few dates and guys didn't expect you to sleep with them right away. And yes, I do know there are many guys who don't expect that but a. a lot of guys don't expect it but try it anyway and I feel uncomfortable, and b. you'd be surprised who does expect it. It's not always handsome dbags.

 

If I was allowed to take my time with dating then ok, sure. But everyone seems to be in so much of a hurry.

 

Do you communicate with wanting to take time with dating?

 

At some point, guys are going to want physical intimacy, handsome or not.

 

What's wrong with the "not always handsome" guys wanting sex too?

 

"Fat chicks need love too", so the saying goes. As do the not so always handsome guys. It's natural/normal. Why is that a surprise.

 

I agree getting to know someone first is good, for either party.

[Chris2016]

What did I ever do to you? You know, it's really unfair of you to punish me for whatever someone else has done to you. It's like you being a racist or something.

 

Or is that just my "Handsome Guy Privilege" talking?

 

My projection, they got burned by the good looking guys. Now, the not so good looking guy better not even have a boner--which he is going to have anyways, because he's not good looking.

[thefooloftheyear]

My projection, they got burned by the good looking guys. Now, the not so good looking guy better not even have a boner--which he is going to have anyways, because he's not good looking.

 

 

Or perhaps its because they can't control us....Its as simple as that....

 

TFY

[elaine567]

Men in general do not get the "friends first" attitude because as a man he wanders about life not really worried about physical threat. Women especially as they age and gain more experience, worry about it a lot.

Having sex with a guy she does not know or knows very little about, puts her in a very vulnerable position. "friends first" is a form of risk assessment.

 

Also as women age most develop an intolerance to weirdos, psychos and other "undesirables" so getting to know a man before jumping into bed with him can be an effective strategy in avoiding those types. If he is a very poor friend - inconsiderate, selfish, unreliable, moody, argumentative, aggressive, untrustworthy, etc.... then what sort of a lover will that make him?

[WaitingForBardot]

Men in general do not get the "friends first" attitude because as a man he wanders about life not really worried about physical threat. Women especially as they age and gain more experience, worry about it a lot.

Having sex with a guy she does not know or knows very little about, puts her in a very vulnerable position. "friends first" is a form of risk assessment.

 

Also as women age most develop an intolerance to weirdos, psychos and other "undesirables" so getting to know a man before jumping into bed with him can be an effective strategy in avoiding those types. If he is a very poor friend - inconsiderate, selfish, unreliable, moody, argumentative, aggressive, untrustworthy, etc.... then what sort of a lover will that make him?

I completely understand the safety aspects of the friends first strategy, but if there are no positive cues that a woman is interested beyond friends, especially when there's no physical indicators of interest on the first date, the strategy will usually fail. This is true even with they type of men you (not you specifically) are interested in.

 

This problem, if you want to call it that, may be further compounded by the fact that there are many women that are just as happy as men to get physical on the first date, even if only for a test drive.

[thefooloftheyear]

Men in general do not get the "friends first" attitude because as a man he wanders about life not really worried about physical threat. Women especially as they age and gain more experience, worry about it a lot.

Having sex with a guy she does not know or knows very little about, puts her in a very vulnerable position. "friends first" is a form of risk assessment.

 

Also as women age most develop an intolerance to weirdos, psychos and other "undesirables" so getting to know a man before jumping into bed with him can be an effective strategy in avoiding those types. If he is a very poor friend - inconsiderate, selfish, unreliable, moody, argumentative, aggressive, untrustworthy, etc.... then what sort of a lover will that make him?

 

Very good point....sometimes I wonder how any woman really vets someone...Id imagine it could be very dicey at first..

 

TFY

[Imajerk17]

This whole thread (actually, BOTH threads, the OP wrote a follow-up thread that sort of ties into the OT and the moderators merged the two threads together) seems, to me anyway, to be such a silly thing for guys to get hung up on.

 

The OP has a habit of taking a woman's words way too literally and it just keeps causing him all sorts of confusion. This thread is just another example of that. Look, whether a woman says "friends first" or "no hookups", she has to feel both attracted to you AND comfortable w you, and if that is the case, she will get physical w you soon enough. You should never be pushy, but you DO have to let a woman you are into, *feel* that you are into her, and that typically includes making a physical move.

 

Some women may need more time for the "attraction" part to happen, and that is fine. Maybe they learned that they wrote off some great guy due to the "sparks" thing not being there right from the beginning and they figured it would be better to give things more time. Or maybe they are thinking of their physical and emotional safety and want to make sure that you really are a decent guy before they sleep with you. All smart things. What a guy should do then goes on a case-by-case basis. But in the meanwhile, it isn't that hard to suss out the women who are looking for a "sexless boyfriend".

 

On that note, OP, what is your question again? Are you looking for a rule book to suss out the women looking to use a guy, or to suss out a woman who isn't really into you (and gives you the "friends first" spiel), versus those who just need more time? Why did you post this thread.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Imajerk17

[Mrlonelyone]

Men in general do not get the "friends first" attitude because as a man he wanders about life not really worried about physical threat. Women especially as they age and gain more experience, worry about it a lot.

Having sex with a guy she does not know or knows very little about, puts her in a very vulnerable position. "friends first" is a form of risk assessment.

 

Also as women age most develop an intolerance to weirdos, psychos and other "undesirables" so getting to know a man before jumping into bed with him can be an effective strategy in avoiding those types. If he is a very poor friend - inconsiderate, selfish, unreliable, moody, argumentative, aggressive, untrustworthy, etc.... then what sort of a lover will that make him?

 

What men do to tell the difference between a woman who has a spark of physical attraction but wants friends first is try for some non-threatening physical touch.

 

The classic example is to hold their hands. Hand holding is something one does with family, really REALLY good friends, and lovers. Yet it is not sexual.

 

Hugging. Will she give you a hug.

 

IF the woman wants to touch you more than a platonic friend then that's a good sign. IF the woman touches your body in a sensuous way wants to touch your muscles or if you are a fat guy thinks your fat is cuddly... then she may have some physical attraction.*

 

There are women in the world who will use the promise of sex to get things from men they never want to have sex with. That is also a survival strategy it benefits men to avoid falling victim to.

 

Ladies

You see, unless you and a man are into the same hobbies, job, or other interest him wanting to be your friend is all about wanting to have sex with you. *

 

 

* Where my experience comes from.

 

I am a male to female transgender woman . I have mostly dated men but I have had some few but significant women in my life. So I know how all sides approach.

[preraph]

Yup yup. I once had a girl I was so so crazy about & I wanted her badly & uh she was already in a relationship but she really liked me pining for her a lot & stuff but always kept me in the friendzone but always wanted me to talk to her & buy her snacks & would say I'm not a gentleman if I didn't buy her snacks or something. I started to secretly hate it u know but I stupidly put up with it 'cause I was holding out for her to eventually fall for me until my uncle knocked some sense into me & got me out. Girls can really manipulate u if u let them so be really really careful .

 

 

Even on that small a scale (snacks), this goes back to common sense not to fall for some woman who is asking you for gifts, even tiny ones. There aren't many of those type women, but they are just users. They probably make their female friends buy them stuff too.

[preraph]

I completely understand the safety aspects of the friends first strategy, but if there are no positive cues that a woman is interested beyond friends, especially when there's no physical indicators of interest on the first date, the strategy will usually fail. This is true even with they type of men you (not you specifically) are interested in.

 

This problem, if you want to call it that, may be further compounded by the fact that there are many women that are just as happy as men to get physical on the first date, even if only for a test drive.

 

I agree with women it should be about safety, but if you happen to go out with a rapist or murderer, "just being friends" isn't going to save you either. It's about staying in public until you know something about them. So it's pointless to be "just friends" but agree to go over to their house and play video games.

 

Let's not forget women get pregnant from sex. No one seems to have remembered that on here for why someone doesn't always jump right in bed even if they are attracted. You can't trust everyone to keep their condom on, and these days you can't trust women to be on the pill.

[Shining One]

There are women in the world who will use the promise of sex to get things from men they never want to have sex with.

I wish someone had tattooed this on me at 18.

[Sweetfish]

Most single woman are always on the hunt for "the one" the only time I would say other wise is if they just got out of a horrible relationship. telling a man friend first is like applying for a job and saying don't call us.. will call you.

 

You are simply, put on QUE. So my suggestion to the man is to put your application else where.

 

Women my suggestion is to say: "I want to get to know you more and see where that leads" Telling a man friends first is such a turn-off it makes me wonder why many women are having trouble finding men...

 

In regards to safety... There are equally if not more female weirdos, creeps, and my little princesses who stay undercover and can bring havoc to a man floating all over OLD.

[anuba]

I've always seen the "friends first" thing as a way of trying to put a guy on a back burner.

Some women's way of bookmarking the guy and coming back to him later if they find nothing better.

 

I guess it could also be the result of her watching way too many "romcoms".

 

It just seems like a crappy thing to do if a guy asks you out with romantic intent and you respond with the "friends first" comment, you're essentially implying he has to prove himself worthy of your time and attention.

 

If a guy said the same to me, I would see it as him not being interested in or attracted to me, so why would a guy feel differently?

[LookAtThisPOst]

I've always seen the "friends first" thing as a way of trying to put a guy on a back burner.

Some women's way of bookmarking the guy and coming back to him later if they find nothing better.

 

I guess it could also be the result of her watching way too many "romcoms".

 

It just seems like a crappy thing to do if a guy asks you out with romantic intent and you respond with the "friends first" comment, you're essentially implying he has to prove himself worthy of your time and attention.

 

If a guy said the same to me, I would see it as him not being interested in or attracted to me, so why would a guy feel differently?

 

I know a woman that doesn't put much stock in attraction, esp. the physical and prefers the friends first to see if an attraction will develop.

 

So there's two types of people apparently.

[HandsomeAndLonely]

 

Women my suggestion is to say: "I want to get to know you more and see where that leads" Telling a man friends first is such a turn-off it makes me wonder why many women are having trouble finding men...

 

.

 

^^Totally agree with you!

 

Women should be more specific along the lines of "We'll be friends for a bit, and I want to see where our relationship heads to" or something of that nature. Not "oh, let's just be friends." That leads me to think that I'm being friend-zoned, and that's a big turn off for me.

[anuba]

I know a woman that doesn't put much stock in attraction, esp. the physical and prefers the friends first to see if an attraction will develop.

 

So there's two types of people apparently.

There are all types of people...

 

It's easy to find people you are attracted to, doesn't mean anything will come of it.

 

But when so many are looking for committed, loving relationships, everyone has devised a method for finding the right person, it seems.

[coolheadal]

This has some up and downs to this riddle. You take a woman out on date, if the date doesn't go right she'll make you her friend. But guys today are not accepting this friend zone they want more. Some women are not looking for guys for relationship they just want to hang out with them. Now should the guy spend his money on a woman who just wants to be friends only. No he shouldn't spend his money on her and she should go dutch or pay for her own meal. Should this guy do anything else for her no gifts not cards. She wants to be his friend only can't have it both ways friends with extras. Being in relationship doesn't mean to get into her pants. That still has to develop into friendship then relationship.

[LookAtThisPOst]

This has some up and downs to this riddle. You take a woman out on date, if the date doesn't go right she'll make you her friend. But guys today are not accepting this friend zone they want more. Some women are not looking for guys for relationship they just want to hang out with them. Now should the guy spend his money on a woman who just wants to be friends only. No he shouldn't spend his money on her and she should go dutch or pay for her own meal. Should this guy do anything else for her no gifts not cards. She wants to be his friend only can't have it both ways friends with extras. Being in relationship doesn't mean to get into her pants. That still has to develop into friendship then relationship.

 

I never spent money on a female friend I went out with, and she doesn't expect me to either. In fact, I would hear about how guys they decided to be friends with insist on paying for their meal and the woman would insist on paying her own.

 

It gets to be some friction there.

[anuba]

This has some up and downs to this riddle. You take a woman out on date, if the date doesn't go right she'll make you her friend. But guys today are not accepting this friend zone they want more. Some women are not looking for guys for relationship they just want to hang out with them. Now should the guy spend his money on a woman who just wants to be friends only. No he shouldn't spend his money on her and she should go dutch or pay for her own meal. Should this guy do anything else for her no gifts not cards. She wants to be his friend only can't have it both ways friends with extras. Being in relationship doesn't mean to get into her pants. That still has to develop into friendship then relationship.

 

Totally agree with you.

If a woman states that she wants to be friends, she should act like a friend.

 

Paying her own way on outings, paying for meals and not getting mad/jealous if you notice other women are all part of that.

 

If a woman calls you her friend but expects to be treated like a girlfriend, don't waste time on her because she is probably using you.

[SilverLining]

I originally said I don't trust men that are too attractive, but I misspoke. I was tired when I wrote that and I didn't choose the correct word. I have dated some very attractive men, including one catalogue model and one fitness model. I myself am very average.

 

The very attractive men I have dated have either had an unfortunate past, identify as geeks, or are in some way a little different from your typical attractive guy. The other men I have encountered have had very little personality, very little kindness, and way too much arrogance. I have some very attractive male family members and while I love them to death, they absolutely use their looks to get away with crap most people wouldn't. I feel like it has a negative impact on their personality. I think the same thing about attractive women - most objectively 'hot' friends I have had were manipulative, boring, and usually not really great people.

 

So I suppose I could say that very attractive men leave me bored and annoyed. In general.

 

Regarding the other thing, about 'friends first'...I wouldn't expect a guy to be my friend first. I would prefer low key dating for a couple weeks though. Ideal timeline for me: 1st date - quick coffee or drinks chatting. 2nd date - dinner/museum/other activity. 3rd date - museum/activity/event. In general, something that's fun that also allows us to get to know each other. 4th date - dinner/movie/something more comfortable and intimate. After maybe the 5th date I assume I've been seeing the guy 2-3 weeks and at that point I'd be open to making him dinner at home or doing something in a more intimate setting. I'd be open to spending the night somewhere around this time.

 

Personally I think too many guys are trying to have sex on the first few dates. When I was young, it lead to me having sex with guys when I didn't want to. I would try to set boundaries and the guy would continue to pressure me and eventually I would just give in. I didn't enjoy it and I wasn't happy. I was young and didn't know how to set boundaries. I completely understand wanting to have sex. I have a high sex drive and I go a bit nuts myself after awhile. But I learn how to handle that so it doesn't impact someone I'm trying to go out with.

[Imajerk17]

That makes sense @Silver_Lining. I agree w you and I think your approach is smart. But what you are proposing is different from "Friends First", at least how the guys are taking it anyway. What you are proposing is "Taking It Slow"

 

I suppose the ideal thing when it comes to what is known as "Friends First" might be to fall in love w your childhood best friend or your coworker you've grown really close to, or someone from your social circle whom you are already comfortable w. It does happen but it is very tough to engineer.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Imajerk17

[CptInsano]

I also agree with @Silver_Lining. A slow progression during the early dates is perfectly acceptable as long as there is some progress. It's a serious red flag when this process stalls, and it feels more like a platonic friendship.

 

I'm in my mid forties, and I have never been successful with a friends-first approach. I've had many female friends over the years, and I am thankful for them, but once the pattern is established, it never led to a fulfilling romantic relationship. I have tried a few times, but either she or I couldnt get out of "friend mode".