Spouse repeatedly threatens with the D-word

[dreamingoftigers]

Honestly i don't understand how people are defending her and blaming the OP. you can read in his posts that he is TRYING. he's obviously not perfect but he is TRYING which is a LOT more than she is doing! He should not have to clean up after his grown partner!!! If she won't try to fix HER glaring issues there is nothing he can do! She has to put in her 50%....and she's not. She won't do counseling, won't compromise on child-rearing, won't clean up after herself, won't speak to the OP as a normal person and threatens divorce! Sure OP could do some things better, as we all could, but she has WAY more issues than his little fixes are gonna help. And if she isn't willing to address them, there's no point in him continuing to try. I would tell her it's therapy or it's the divorce she likes to threaten with.

 

Who's to say she "won't" when she's not being approached with criticism, her expression invalidated and her child-rearing put down?

 

And to say it in my best Tommy Chong voice: "She's not here, man...."

 

He came knocking for help, the power dynamic in this relationship is way off, if he's presenting his "what do I do?" theorems, here we are giving him healthier options.

 

The biggest change in my poor power-dynamic relationship (including an H who dropped the D-word when he got his back up) was learning about taking away criticism. And increasing praise, which is HARD to do if that isn't the way you naturally operate.

 

I would be interested to know what OP likes and would praise his wife about.

[dreamingoftigers]

What would you do if your husband repeatedly spilled his coffee on the carpet, refused to clean it up and refused to be more careful about how he handled his coffee?

 

I would ask him why he's taking his life into his hands bringing coffee around his Mormon wife who has had struggles with that previously.

 

I feel as if I'm being backed into a corner. I'd like to respond favorably, but that will only send further message that she can have her unreasonable demands met if she backs me into a corner. What would you do in a similar situation?

 

I bet that the two of you do it to each other with impunity. But one of you is "worse." The thing is, once one of you stops feeding the criticism and "backing each other into corners" whether it be via "fits" or trying to present a long case-file as to why you are very right, you are NOT connecting. And not solving anything. As long as you are deadlocked, every time one of you is out of sight of the other, you'll just rebel against each other. She's going to eat her food in the living room. You'll do/but whatever and not be transparent about financials etc. Wherever your power-area lies.

 

I bet you both feel a TON of anxiety. She's wondering about the next thing you'll get on her case about when she clearly already has an anxiety issue, and you're wondering what the next fit or threat or crumb-filled vista you'll come home to.

 

Another book for you: "Why Mars and Venus Collide." Dintbtry to force her to adopt everything out of it, okay? These are resources to help you see where you can ease tension. After a few months of tension-easing, you will probably get some mileage from her.

 

She has no clue with respect to financial matters. She thinks I have a bottomless pit of money. She struggles with simple concepts like what to do if there are two things she wants and only enough money to buy one of them.

 

Okay. That's going to cause A LOT of tension in a relationship in general. Because there is no bottomless pit. She isn't go to see you as you see yourself ("generous") because simply, she has no basis for comparison, right? If you make $2000 a year, buying her a $1000 ring is generous (recklessly so) if you make 25 million a year, not so much. Although yes, its still an expensive item. So you end up seeing her do a "keeping up with the Jonses mentality." Ugh. That's challenging.

 

Are you from the same cultural background?

 

I'll check out Gottmann and Hendrix. I agree with you that behavior and communication is a two way street. I've tried to do my part, but I kept being met with her doing things like changing the rules, moving the goalposts or backing me into a corner.

 

It's hard to be a "rational" person in the relationship because you see the most sensical way from A to B.

 

But most people think they are the rational one (going from A to B) and then they get frustrated by their partner's interference. Relationships are really challenging. And babies make them more so.

 

Has your wife refused IC or MC or both?

[elaine567]

I haven't read the whole thread but my guess is that she is "losing it" for some reason, and my advice would be to get her mother into your house ASAP, so you can get to the bottom of it and have someone sane look after your child and for the mother to try and persuade your wife to get help.

[dreamingoftigers]

I haven't read the whole thread but my guess is that she is "losing it" for some reason, and my advice would be to get her mother into your house ASAP, so you can get to the bottom of it and have someone sane look after your child and for the mother to try and persuade your wife to get help.

 

That might just completely compund it.

 

You get two ganging up on one then. And he's having trouble with the one-to-one ratio.

 

Depends on the mother though.

[elaine567]

That might just completely compund it.

 

You get two ganging up on one then. And he's having trouble with the one-to-one ratio.

 

Depends on the mother though.

 

This is NOT a fight, this is a woman losing her mind in my opinion - she needs serious help.

[dreamingoftigers]

This is NOT a fight, this is a woman losing her mind in my opinion - she needs serious help.

 

I saw the anxiety, but he has said she's very maternal and protective with the child.

 

OP, how much of this struggle is PPD?

[elaine567]

Mother comes in, takes the heat and pressure off her daughter, cooks proper meals, allows her some sleep, gets order back into her life, someone to talk to, someone to share worries about the child etc. etc. - she will be a different person.

If the mother is worried re PPD or some other mental illness here, then she can persuade the daughter to get help too.

[dreamingoftigers]

Mother comes in, takes the heat and pressure off her daughter, cooks proper meals, allows her some sleep, gets order back into her life, someone to talk to, someone to share worries about the child etc. etc. - she will be a different person.

If the mother is worried re PPD or some other mental illness here, then she can persuade the daughter to get help too.

 

It's a option if its a good Mom.

 

You see, my Mom would actually be awesome for this.

 

My mother-in-law though?

No. NO. NO. Not a chance. We had the "opportunity" when we younger to move to live with her "rent-free." We just looked at each other, and it was all NOPE. She tells her other grandchildren how "stupid" they are.

Literally, to their faces. And that's the icing on the cake. I wouldn't be able to hold back kicking her in the arse if I heard her talk to my children the way that she talks to the other grandkids.

[elaine567]

It's a option if its a good Mom.

 

You see, my Mom would actually be awesome for this.

 

My mother-in-law though?

No. NO. NO. Not a chance. We had the "opportunity" when we younger to move to live with her "rent-free." We just looked at each other, and it was all NOPE. She tells her other grandchildren how "stupid" they are.

Literally, to their faces. And that's the icing on the cake. I wouldn't be able to hold back kicking her in the arse if I heard her talk to my children the way that she talks to the other grandkids.

 

His wife wants her mom there, so I guess their relationship is good.

[Popsicle]

Hello,

 

I've been with my wife about six years and we have a one year old child. She is exhibiting some symptoms of what seems to be postpartum depression, some of which are amplifications of traits she showed prior to when she got pregnant. Now whenever she gets upset with me, she drops the D-word. As she thinks I wouldn't want custody of our child, she adds that she'll leave me with custody, which strongly suggests she isn't serious with her use of the D-word. I am almost 100% sure she would want custody of our child if there were a divorce. She is a stay-at-home mom and works one day a week.

 

Here are some of her traits:

 

1) Phobic of outdoors (e.g. won't even take our baby to the park, which is within walking distance of our house; doesn't want to get out of the car when we go for a "Sunday afternoon drive")

2) Refuses to go to counseling

3) Repeatedly accuses me of being stingy when I've been generous with her

4) Treats me very disrespectfully (e.g. hangs up the phone on me, disregards my constructive suggestions, criticizes me, speaks to me in hostile/impolite tones, etc.)

5) Demands luxury gifts. When I don't give in (because she's been treating me poorly), she points to other couples and says something like "Jack bought Jill a $60,000 BMV"

6) Refuses to go to the doctor for herself or make doctor appointments for herself or our child.

7) She'll go on a rant, perhaps even using the D-word, then the following day peacefully ask about some future plan we need to have together for our child.

8) She is insisting on having her mother move in with us, when we have already came to a clear agreement that her mother isn't to live in our house. She now wishes to renege on this agreement.

9) Stays up very late and wakes up late. Refuses to attempt to modify her sleep schedule, saying it's impossible.

10) Lets the baby stay up late (often well beyond midnight)

11) When she won't speak rationally with me about the aforementioned issues, I say I'll talk with her friends. She responds by saying I'm the laughingstock among her friends because I talk to them about my wife.

12) Never says "I'm sorry"

13) Blames me for any problem she causes with respect to housekeeping.

 

Perhaps there's more I could add. Please feel free to ask questions.

 

You may all be wondering why I stick with this marriage in spite of the above. I'm well aware of the pain of divorce and am willing to endure (largely because of our child) if she isn't serious about a divorce.

 

I would encourage her to work full-time. I think that the power imbalance can make some SAHM's feel depressed, powerless and feel trapped. If she works full-time and gets some sense of independence, then she can truthfully evaluate whether she enjoys being in the marriage then.

[Morcenx]

Can you operate a vacuum cleaner?

Yes.

 

But I have a question for you. Let's say your SO repeatedly dropped food crumbs in difficult to vacuum areas. You politely asked her to be more careful about it and pointed out the health hazards. Your SO ignored you and continued doing this. You're the one doing the vacuuming, so why shouldn't you have some say over how careful your SO is in handling food?

[Morcenx]

Have you shared with her a monthly family budget? Shown her simple Excel spreadsheets of how much there is to spend each month on groceries, utilities, rent, etc?

I've tried, but she doesn't want to look at that. She just wants me to draw money out of our retirement and give her large allowances or buy lots of needless things for her.

 

OP, you keep throwing out rhetorical analogies without answering specific questions.

 

How old are you? How old is she? Have you ever put your baby to bed yourself?

I am in my mid 40s and she is in her early 30s. Yes, I've put our baby to bed.

[elaine567]

Yes.

 

But I have a question for you. Let's say your SO repeatedly dropped food crumbs in difficult to vacuum areas. You politely asked her to be more careful about it and pointed out the health hazards. Your SO ignored you and continued doing this. You're the one doing the vacuuming, so why shouldn't you have some say over how careful your SO is in handling food?

 

Stop trying to make sense out of a woman who is struggling mentally, get her mother involved and get her the help she needs.

[Morcenx]

Oh boy.

 

 

Same pattern of communication as above. Another example of right-fighting.

 

What would I do?

 

1. Not this. This doesn't work. This sounds like a high-school math problem. Do you remember how much everyone loved those? Me neither. And I won the Math Scholarship in my school three semesters in a row.

 

2. Simply this: what was the 'fit' about? Why is my partner exploding and refusing to talk to me? What's THAT about? That's the bigger issue. At this rate we aren't going on vacation, we're hittibg the counselor's office because the last place I want to head with the person is out if town when things are this shaky.

 

3. If this is a usual pattern of conflict I say this: "Look, I know that there's a BIG ISSUE HERE. I don't know what it is. Of you want to talk to me, I'm open to it. Otherwise I can't finalize our vacation so I'll let this one go (or if you have brass balls, go alone) because there is NO JOINT VACATION without a joint RELATIONSHIP.

 

I wouldn't even touch the idea of asking her friends. Jeez. Triangulation. Not good. Not good at all. It also enforces an inappropriate avenue of communication. She doesn't want to talk directly. So she fields it through her friends. No way.

 

I can't even imagine calling up my husband's buddy going " do you think he'd be okay with the North-facing beach?" Oh boy no.

I am happy to address each of your points. But in all fairness, can you first address my question for you:

 

Let's say you and your SO are planning a vacation. The vacation involves you arranging time off from work and it involves other people's schedules as well. When you're just shy of finalizing things, your SO has a fit about something, and won't talk to you. Before finalizing the vacation, you need to discuss some details with SO, but SO won't talk to you. The time and money of others are involved; your work schedule is involved; but you need to discuss some details with your SO before you finalize things. Your SO has friends who could answer the questions for her. What do you do?

[Morcenx]

Stop trying to make sense out of a woman who is struggling mentally, get her mother involved and get her the help she needs.

This is what I'd like to do. But she denies she needs help and won't see a counselor. Eventually I may need to get her mother involved.

[elaine567]

This is what I'd like to do. But she denies she needs help and won't see a counselor. Eventually I may need to get her mother involved.

 

Get her mother involved NOW is my advice.

[Morcenx]

You tell your SO that you are finalising the vacation plans and you need her schedule.

If she doesn't give it ....if she can't be mature enough not to throw a fit and provide the required info....then there are major issues you need to address before even having a vacation. In this situation I'd say I need the info to finalise...if I don't get it I will have to cancel the vacation. Or..I'll go by myself. Text her...so it's quite clear what you're asking and saying...she can't then later complain that you went away without her...you'll also have the evidence that you asked for her dates and we're clear it was urgent.

Thanks for your response. That was helpful. I'd likely do something along those lines - perhaps cancel the part about doing the vacation with friends and do something on my own.

 

I find it interesting how you were so willing to answer that question, while another person in this thread I asked the question of avoided it and turned the tables back on me. I can see that you have good communication qualities.

 

What if she didn't have friends who knew the info?. Third parties who are not professionals will only add to the problems. You keep contacting her friends and they have reason to discuss YOUR marriage not in a positive way. If nothing the friends may talk among each other about you and how bad things must be that you come to them.

The very first thing I do when talking with her friends is to make it very clear that things need to be discussed between me and my SO and that my SO won't communicate.

 

My H did this once......went to my brother and I was furious. I told him that I never went to his brother if there was an issue.....I didn't want my family knowing my marital issues and I was clear that if he ever did that again. .......it wouldn't end well.

If you did a similar thing again, do you think your H would go to your brother again? There's a lesson to be learned here. My SO knows I'll go to her friends if she behaves a certain way. She can keep me from going to her friends by not behaving that way. Her choice.

 

There's no problem wanting to live in a clean environment ....... but I suspect there's much more going on with both of you.....good clear communication..with you both having the right speaking and listening skills will help get to what those issues are.

She will pay attention when I address issues like food hygiene, but she doesn't follow through - just repeats the same behavior.

 

Right now you're both not satisfied with things.....those things need to be brought out in the open..in a calm and civilised manner.

I have ceased trying to talk with her unless she is calm. And the moment she gets riled up, I stop the conversation.

[sandylee1]

Thanks for your response. That was helpful. I'd likely do something along those lines - perhaps cancel the part about doing the vacation with friends and do something on my own.

 

I find it interesting how you were so willing to answer that question, while another person in this thread I asked the question of avoided it and turned the tables back on me. I can see that you have good communication qualities.

 

 

The very first thing I do when talking with her friends is to make it very clear that things need to be discussed between me and my SO and that my SO won't communicate.

 

 

If you did a similar thing again, do you think your H would go to your brother again? There's a lesson to be learned here. My SO knows I'll go to her friends if she behaves a certain way. She can keep me from going to her friends by not behaving that way. Her choice.

 

 

She will pay attention when I address issues like food hygiene, but she doesn't follow through - just repeats the same behavior.

 

 

I have ceased trying to talk with her unless she is calm. And the moment she gets riled up, I stop the conversation.

 

I never said anything about going on the vacation with friends..I said either cancel it or go on your own. your wife later complains that there is no holiday...you tell her she refusedto provide you with the info.

 

No matter what the first thing you say to her friends is...your relationship is your business. By telling them she won't communicate.......you are involving them in your marital issues.

 

My H would not go to my brother again ......he knows where I stand on that and we communicate well. Even if we were having an argument...in your example..... I'd still give him the dates. Your wife is being extremely unreasonable in this regard.

 

A lot boils down to communication with the two of you. There's no huge major issue.....but there are lots of niggles ...and these will continue to build and ultimately become a huge problem...because the little issues aren't being fully addressed and resolved.

 

If possible.... I suggest a couple of hours without the baby...where you can both talk. You make the childcare arrangements..then tell her what you've done and why.

 

It's important to ascertain you both want the same thing... a better marriage.

 

You could try writing how you feel and show your wife. Be honest . tell her your fears for the future if these issues are not resolved. Say that you know there are things she probably isn't happy about.....but you don't know what they are and the only way to improve things...is to discuss together.

[BluEyeL]

In every marriage each party is solely responsible for their own choices and behavior.

 

Here, the spouse repeatedly threatens with the D-word, meaning threatening divorce, as part of interaction. She's responsible for that, along with whatever other behaviors are displayed. The OP is responsible for his behaviors. He apparently has not threatened divorce in their interactions. She also has apparently stated she'll leave him with custody of their one year old child, one she is currently the stay at home mother of. Strong statements.

 

I'd take them, form up a filing with those aspects included and, essentially, agree with her threats and statements. OK, you want this and this, let's go.

 

What I usually do in these cases is something our MC used to do, flipping the roles and 'putting one into the other persons shoes'. If his spouse were here with the same litany of complaints and seeking advice regarding threats her husband made to divorce her, how would things go? It's often interesting to examine bias in such matters.

It sounds line she has good reasons to get a divorce . Probably not doing it because she has a little baby and doesn't work.

[dreamingoftigers]

I am happy to address each of your points. But in all fairness, can you first address my question for you:

 

Let's say you and your SO are planning a vacation. The vacation involves you arranging time off from work and it involves other people's schedules as well. When you're just shy of finalizing things, your SO has a fit about something, and won't talk to you. Before finalizing the vacation, you need to discuss some details with SO, but SO won't talk to you. The time and money of others are involved; your work schedule is involved; but you need to discuss some details with your SO before you finalize things. Your SO has friends who could answer the questions for her. What do you do?

 

If you read my post above (the one you QUOTED) then you have my answer.

 

I would talk to her friends because that is inappropriate communication AND reinforces her not talking to you and still getting a potentially nice vacation.

 

You don't leave town with someone who can't even stand to talk to you. You either work out the fight with her OR if she's still adamant on not speaking to you, decide if you are going alone. OR since you have a newborn, take a staycation and start in some serious counseling.

 

Make it abundantly clear that you are not playing games, that if she insists upon silent treatment that she is risking the very foundation of the relationship.

[Qboro90]

Yes.

 

But I have a question for you. Let's say your SO repeatedly dropped food crumbs in difficult to vacuum areas. You politely asked her to be more careful about it and pointed out the health hazards. Your SO ignored you and continued doing this. You're the one doing the vacuuming, so why shouldn't you have some say over how careful your SO is in handling food?

 

You're seriously bent out of shape about breadcrumbs in the cracks of the carpet? That's the example you choose to use to illustrate how irrational your wife is? Every now and then there are crumbs in the tiny cracks of the carpet.

 

Two things: 1. Ever hear the phrase "pick your battles"? If crumbs on the floor is one of your bigger problems then your life ain't that bad. Not to mention the fact that you're badgering a woman who is suffering from PPD about nonsense and adding to her anxiety levels with completely mundane complaints on your part. What hygiene disaster are you so afraid of? There might be some ants in the house if she drops food and fails to clean it up? It's not exactly like she's leaving hypodermic needles laying around.

 

2. You have a new child.... Better get used to crumbs on the floor, dirt in the house, things being messy... Because kids... And mess... Go hand in hand.

[266696687]

 

If you did a similar thing again, do you think your H would go to your brother again? There's a lesson to be learned here. My SO knows I'll go to her friends if she behaves a certain way. She can keep me from going to her friends by not behaving that way. Her choice.

.

 

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Training his wife to behave a certain way towards him. If she doesn't comply he will talk to her friends. The only way to prevent him from doing so is to behave exactly as he has requested. (Scary).

 

What type of behaviour is this?

[xxoo]

Yes.

 

But I have a question for you. Let's say your SO repeatedly dropped food crumbs in difficult to vacuum areas. You politely asked her to be more careful about it and pointed out the health hazards. Your SO ignored you and continued doing this. You're the one doing the vacuuming, so why shouldn't you have some say over how careful your SO is in handling food?

 

HA!

 

I have a husband and two children, and I'm the only one who vacuums. They've ignored my attempts to keep them from dropping crumbs for two decades and counting Somehow, I deal! And I still enjoy them.

[xxoo]

I am happy to address each of your points. But in all fairness, can you first address my question for you:

 

Let's say you and your SO are planning a vacation. The vacation involves you arranging time off from work and it involves other people's schedules as well. When you're just shy of finalizing things, your SO has a fit about something, and won't talk to you. Before finalizing the vacation, you need to discuss some details with SO, but SO won't talk to you. The time and money of others are involved; your work schedule is involved; but you need to discuss some details with your SO before you finalize things. Your SO has friends who could answer the questions for her. What do you do?

 

My SO refusing to talk to me would be a serious red flag. I would cancel the vacation and insist on counseling. Make the appt, inform partner, go alone if they refuse.

 

By continuing to plan vacations and act normally when your wife is refusing to talk to you, you enable this behavior. Don't tolerate it.

[266696687]

My SO refusing to talk to me would be a serious red flag. I would cancel the vacation and insist on counseling. Make the appt, inform partner, go alone if they refuse.

 

By continuing to plan vacations and act normally when your wife is refusing to talk to you, you enable this behavior. Don't tolerate it.

 

The OP hasn't said this situation actually occurred with his wife. He is using a hypothetical situation as an 'example' to attempt to justify him talking to his wife's friends behind her back. - this was a hypothetical situation. Same with many of the other OP's posts. I would imagine he has spoken to his wife's friends behind her back repeatedly about various issues. So much so that his wife told him he is the laughing stock amongst her friends because of his behaviour.

 

He hasn't actually stated that this holiday situation actually occurred.

 

Even if it had happened he is a repeat offender (he claims the only way he will stop talking to her friends about their relationship and issues is if she modifies her behaviour). - his attitude here is very wrong.

Edited February 14, 2016 by 266696687