Spouse repeatedly threatens with the D-word

[Morcenx]

Sure it's biased. I'm biased, you're biased. He's biased. We all write our own narratives to benefit ourselves.

 

 

This kind of focus on minutiae will only serve to take away from the big picture, the one where they're not getting along and each apparently perceives the other in a negative light, so much that the wife is threatening divorce.

 

OP, good question - do you still love your wife? Why?

Yes, I love my wife. But I'm deeply saddened and hurt with the way she's been disrespectful to me.

[carhill]

Does your wife love you? When was the last time she told you and meant it, based on all your years of knowing her?

 

If you both love each other, recovery is possible. If there's any doubt, get out.

[Morcenx]

Yes and that's what is being pointed out to the OP. He cannot place blame on his wife completely. He must accept he owns 50 percent of the responsibility.

 

You cannot save a marriage (which he clearly stated he wants) without first looking at both parties issues. It's not all his wife's fault and it's not all his faults. They have both brought issues into their relationship.

 

Saving a marriage takes compromise from both people. The OP at this point only wants to focus on his wife's behaviour. Hasn't taken any responsibility for any issues that he has contributed too even though he professes that he wants to save his marriage. Solely blaming his wife is not going to save his marriage. - this is the bigger picture.

 

Imagine this: Jack leaves the door open and the dog gets out. If the dog gets out, it might attack other dogs. So there's an objective reason why the dog shouldn't get out. Jill politely asks Jack to be more careful about inadvertently letting the dog out. Jack responds by not increasing his care about this, says it doesn't matter or gets outright angry with Jill. Next time Jack lets the dog out carelessly, Jill asks again for Jack to not do this. Jack then continues to do it. Jill tries to chat with Jack about it, but that doesn't help. Jill is at wits end and just puts a note up on the door, saying "please shut door so dog doesn't get out". Please explain what is wrong with Jill's behavior here?

[Morcenx]

Yes and that's what is being pointed out to the OP. He cannot place blame on his wife completely. He must accept he owns 50 percent of the responsibility.

 

You cannot save a marriage (which he clearly stated he wants) without first looking at both parties issues. It's not all his wife's fault and it's not all his faults. They have both brought issues into their relationship.

 

Saving a marriage takes compromise from both people. The OP at this point only wants to focus on his wife's behaviour. Hasn't taken any responsibility for any issues that he has contributed too even though he professes that he wants to save his marriage. Solely blaming his wife is not going to save his marriage. - this is the bigger picture.

 

Imagine this: Jack leaves the door open and the dog gets out. If the dog gets out, it might attack other dogs. So there's an objective reason why the dog shouldn't get out. Jill politely asks Jack to be more careful about inadvertently letting the dog out. Jack responds by not increasing his care about this, says it doesn't matter or gets outright angry with Jill. Next time Jack lets the dog out carelessly, Jill asks again for Jack to not do this. Jack then continues to do it. Jill tries to chat with Jack about it, but that doesn't help. Jill is at wits end and just puts a note up on the door, saying "please shut door so dog doesn't get out". Please explain what is wrong with Jill's behavior here?

[Ladyjane14]

This is like the third thread I've read in the past few days where we've got some young father, kvetching about his wife in regard to one topic or another, and a small baby in the house.

 

I can't give you your exact situation, OP, but here's what's usually going on....

 

A young couple become parents, the new mom immerses herself in her offspring, is exhausted and sometimes mildly depressed after the birth. She's disengaged from the marital relationship; her new bond is with the child. The dad is on the outside, looking in, missing the fulfillment of the bond that he used to have with his wife. But he loves his child, doesn't want to think of himself as jealous over this little person who's the apple of his eye as well... so he ends up finding topical complaints to focus on. The more he criticizes his wife though... the further she drifts away, the higher the wall she builds around herself.

 

Women can be just as stubborn, and sometimes more so, than men. You'll need to get her attention and make her understand that the marriage really IS at stake. Her wall is up and she's not listening to you. You're both unhappy, and I doubt that either of you really knows why. But I suspect it's because you've lost that intimate, emotional connection of being part of a couple and have become adversarial. If you had that connection back, all these other molehills wouldn't be such mountains. You'd be in the mood to please her and she'd be in the mood to please you.

 

Marriage counseling is a good idea... but it's slow and you're at the mercy of whatever modicum of talent you're able to find in the therapist. Self-study is faster. I'd say read, read, and read some more. You should be able to teach a course in marital dynamics before you throw in the towel. Start with something like, How Can I Get Through To You" by Terrence Real, or "What Makes Love Last" by John Gottman.

[dreamingoftigers]

Imagine this: Jack leaves the door open and the dog gets out. If the dog gets out, it might attack other dogs. So there's an objective reason why the dog shouldn't get out. Jill politely asks Jack to be more careful about inadvertently letting the dog out. Jack responds by not increasing his care about this, says it doesn't matter or gets outright angry with Jill. Next time Jack lets the dog out carelessly, Jill asks again for Jack to not do this. Jack then continues to do it. Jill tries to chat with Jack about it, but that doesn't help. Jill is at wits end and just puts a note up on the door, saying "please shut door so dog doesn't get out". Please explain what is wrong with Jill's behavior here?

 

Hey there, two things:

 

1. Kudos to your creativity, but if my husband started restricting where in the house I should eat and hanging up signs like it's a group home,......it wouldn't go over well.

You are this person's partner, not their parent or enforcer. This doesn't bode well.

 

2. Right-fighting is one of the most destructive things to a relationship. You won't reach any kind of connection or balance by trying to go over and over why your way is " right."

 

And oh boy I tried that when I was younger. Didn't work. Never worked. Never will. People don't respond well to feeling ordered around or backed into corners. Probably the exact same argument about the baby's bedtime. She isn't even trying to "reason it out" with you anymore.

 

I really wonder about the power-dynamic here because she goes as far as to say the D-word. It sounds like a last bastion for someone who feels backed into a corner and has no other recourse instead of losing their personal power.

 

In fact, a lot of your relationships that you posted here sounds like classic power-struggle. You trying to enforce "rationality" and her trying to feel appreciated and heard. Which she isn't. You simply say "if she isn't going to be rational.........." then her thoughts / feelings /opinions cease to matter.

 

Furthermore what's this "you've been generous with her" and she "wants expensive gifts." Is she not aware and an active part of the household financial management?

 

I recommend Gottmann's works. Some of the basics on communicating. And Harville Hendrix Marriage Made Simple.

 

Very good for working across communication styles.

 

You can't seriously believe that your behaviour has nothing to do with your marriage? It has everything to do with it. And you can only control or alter YOUR behaviour. But that can have a significant impact on your wife and her behaviour.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Just a suggestion, take care not to have another child until the two of you have learned healthy ways of conflict resolution.

 

From what you describe, you may need to be the one to take steps to prevent conception.

[b-Shock]

Sorry you're going through this, bro.

 

Postpartum depression is no joke. Have you thought about getting some counseling for you?

[sandylee1]

Put an end to the no eating signs and STOP talking to her friends about your issues. It doesn't matter if she won't talk to you about the issues. It was create more problems and the friends will see the weaknesses in your marriage. That's often how affairs start.

 

You need to find other solutions. ..talk when she's calm about how to deal with conflict. Set some ground rules.....

 

Initially it looked like it was all down to her ....but you don't seem to realise how tiring a baby can be. They don't sleep when you want them to.

 

Address the messiness in a different way..perhaps tell her it's unhygienic..you could end up with rats in the house..which are a health hazard.

 

Be realistic with your expectations of a new mother.

 

You've stated your issues with her...ask her what her issues are with you. Those are the reasons she says D. You both need to communicate properly.

[266696687]

Hey there, two things:

 

1. Kudos to your creativity, but if my husband started restricting where in the house I should eat and hanging up signs like it's a group home,......it wouldn't go over well.

You are this person's partner, not their parent or enforcer. This doesn't bode well.

 

2. Right-fighting is one of the most destructive things to a relationship. You won't reach any kind of connection or balance by trying to go over and over why your way is " right."

 

And oh boy I tried that when I was younger. Didn't work. Never worked. Never will. People don't respond well to feeling ordered around or backed into corners. Probably the exact same argument about the baby's bedtime. She isn't even trying to "reason it out" with you anymore.

 

I really wonder about the power-dynamic here because she goes as far as to say the D-word. It sounds like a last bastion for someone who feels backed into a corner and has no other recourse instead of losing their personal power.

 

In fact, a lot of your relationships that you posted here sounds like classic power-struggle. You trying to enforce "rationality" and her trying to feel appreciated and heard. Which she isn't. You simply say "if she isn't going to be rational.........." then her thoughts / feelings /opinions cease to matter.

 

Furthermore what's this "you've been generous with her" and she "wants expensive gifts." Is she not aware and an active part of the household financial management?

 

I recommend Gottmann's works. Some of the basics on communicating. And Harville Hendrix Marriage Made Simple.

 

Very good for working across communication styles.

 

You can't seriously believe that your behaviour has nothing to do with your marriage? It has everything to do with it. And you can only control or alter YOUR behaviour. But that can have a significant impact on your wife and her behaviour.

 

I agree completely it's his way or the highway. He is enforcing rules on her and if she doesn't comply she is wrong. There's no compromise or discussion. He has no intention of admitting any wrong doing on his part. He has no issues and his behaviour has no impact on his wife or their relationship. It's all her fault. He is delusional.

 

The OP also avoids answering questions specifically around what time his wife gets up and is using useless stories to try and convince people why it's reasonable to talk behind his wife's back to her friends about their problems. This behaviour is unacceptable regardless of how many ways he spin it. He clearly thinks he can divert attention away from the real issue by spinning stories.

 

I've said it once and I'll say it again blaming all your relationship problems on to your wife will NOT save your marriage! So be prepared for a divorce.

 

I have no further advice to offer in this thread.

Edited February 12, 2016 by 266696687

[xxoo]

Do you put the baby to bed sometimes? If so, put the baby to bed when you choose. The more you take on this responsibility, the more you can choose the bed time.

 

Drop the eating issue. It is not dangerous; there is no actual risk of getting ill from crumbs in the living room. If it were dangerous, my family would be dead

[Ms. Faust]

Small observation, but OP why won't you go ahead and put the baby to bed at a reasonable hour? Just curious. Sometimes I get caught up in a book or something online, and my hubby will go ahead and put our 8 month old to sleep at her designated bed time.

[266696687]

Small observation, but OP why won't you go ahead and put the baby to bed at a reasonable hour? Just curious. Sometimes I get caught up in a book or something online, and my hubby will go ahead and put our 8 month old to sleep at her designated bed time.

 

The same reason he believes she should be solely responsible for the housekeeping. The OP is only in the relationship to observe and instruct his wife on appropriate housekeeping and mothering duties.

 

God forbid he pick up a Hoover and clean up the sofa crumbs to his liking or put the baby to bed! She is responsponsibly solely for those things his job is to complain about how they don't meet his standards.

[Morcenx]

I agree completely it's his way or the highway. He is enforcing rules on her and if she doesn't comply she is wrong. There's no compromise or discussion. He has no intention of admitting any wrong doing on his part. He has no issues and his behaviour has no impact on his wife or their relationship. It's all her fault. He is delusional.

 

The OP also avoids answering questions specifically around what time his wife gets up and is using useless stories to try and convince people why it's reasonable to talk behind his wife's back to her friends about their problems. This behaviour is unacceptable regardless of how many ways he spin it. He clearly thinks he can divert attention away from the real issue by spinning stories.

 

I've said it once and I'll say it again blaming all your relationship problems on to your wife will NOT save your marriage! So be prepared for a divorce.

 

I have no further advice to offer in this thread.

Let's say you and your SO are planning a vacation. The vacation involves you arranging time off from work and it involves other people's schedules as well. When you're just shy of finalizing things, your SO has a fit about something, and won't talk to you. Before finalizing the vacation, you need to discuss some details with SO, but SO won't talk to you. The time and money of others are involved; your work schedule is involved; but you need to discuss some details with your SO before you finalize things. Your SO has friends who could answer the questions for her. What do you do?

[Morcenx]

Sorry you're going through this, bro.

 

Postpartum depression is no joke. Have you thought about getting some counseling for you?

I'm already in counseling. My SO refuses to go to counseling.

[Morcenx]

Put an end to the no eating signs and STOP talking to her friends about your issues. It doesn't matter if she won't talk to you about the issues. It was create more problems and the friends will see the weaknesses in your marriage. That's often how affairs start.

 

You need to find other solutions. ..talk when she's calm about how to deal with conflict. Set some ground rules.....

I find it interesting that several others in here are adamant about not talking to her friends. I can understand why it could be bothersome, but when communication is needed about something and there are no other options, what should one do? Take this example:

 

Let's say you and your SO are planning a vacation. The vacation involves you arranging time off from work and it involves other people's schedules as well. When you're just shy of finalizing things, your SO has a fit about something, and won't talk to you. Before finalizing the vacation, you need to discuss some details with SO, but SO won't talk to you. The time and money of others are involved; your work schedule is involved; but you need to discuss some details with your SO before you finalize things. Your SO has friends who could answer the questions for her. What do you do?

 

Initially it looked like it was all down to her ....but you don't seem to realise how tiring a baby can be. They don't sleep when you want them to.

 

Address the messiness in a different way..perhaps tell her it's unhygienic..you could end up with rats in the house..which are a health hazard.

I've clearly pointed out the health hazards of food crumbs being left around.

[Morcenx]

Hey there, two things:

 

1. Kudos to your creativity, but if my husband started restricting where in the house I should eat and hanging up signs like it's a group home,......it wouldn't go over well.

You are this person's partner, not their parent or enforcer. This doesn't bode well.

What would you do if your husband repeatedly spilled his coffee on the carpet, refused to clean it up and refused to be more careful about how he handled his coffee?

 

2. Right-fighting is one of the most destructive things to a relationship. You won't reach any kind of connection or balance by trying to go over and over why your way is " right."

 

And oh boy I tried that when I was younger. Didn't work. Never worked. Never will. People don't respond well to feeling ordered around or backed into corners. Probably the exact same argument about the baby's bedtime. She isn't even trying to "reason it out" with you anymore.

I feel as if I'm being backed into a corner. I'd like to respond favorably, but that will only send further message that she can have her unreasonable demands met if she backs me into a corner. What would you do in a similar situation?

 

I really wonder about the power-dynamic here because she goes as far as to say the D-word. It sounds like a last bastion for someone who feels backed into a corner and has no other recourse instead of losing their personal power.

 

In fact, a lot of your relationships that you posted here sounds like classic power-struggle. You trying to enforce "rationality" and her trying to feel appreciated and heard. Which she isn't. You simply say "if she isn't going to be rational.........." then her thoughts / feelings /opinions cease to matter.

 

Furthermore what's this "you've been generous with her" and she "wants expensive gifts." Is she not aware and an active part of the household financial management?

She has no clue with respect to financial matters. She thinks I have a bottomless pit of money. She struggles with simple concepts like what to do if there are two things she wants and only enough money to buy one of them.

 

I recommend Gottmann's works. Some of the basics on communicating. And Harville Hendrix Marriage Made Simple.

 

Very good for working across communication styles.

 

You can't seriously believe that your behaviour has nothing to do with your marriage? It has everything to do with it. And you can only control or alter YOUR behaviour. But that can have a significant impact on your wife and her behaviour.

I'll check out Gottmann and Hendrix. I agree with you that behavior and communication is a two way street. I've tried to do my part, but I kept being met with her doing things like changing the rules, moving the goalposts or backing me into a corner.

[xxoo]

I've clearly pointed out the health hazards of food crumbs being left around.

 

Can you operate a vacuum cleaner?

[Mr. Lucky]

I've clearly pointed out the health hazards of food crumbs being left around.

 

If this pedantic insistence is a glimpse of how you interact with your wife, then some of your problems are easier to understand.

 

Let's say we all declared you to be RIGHT - crumbs are a health hazard equal to the Zika virus.

 

Now, are you any more happily married?

 

Can you operate a vacuum cleaner?

 

Best advice you've gotten so far...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ms. Faust]

He didn't answer the question about putting the baby to sleep himself.

[CarrieT]

She has no clue with respect to financial matters. She thinks I have a bottomless pit of money. She struggles with simple concepts like what to do if there are two things she wants and only enough money to buy one of them.

Have you shared with her a monthly family budget? Shown her simple Excel spreadsheets of how much there is to spend each month on groceries, utilities, rent, etc?

 

OP, you keep throwing out rhetorical analogies without answering specific questions.

 

How old are you? How old is she? Have you ever put your baby to bed yourself?

[dreamingoftigers]

Let's say you and your SO are planning a vacation. The vacation involves you arranging time off from work and it involves other people's schedules as well. When you're just shy of finalizing things, your SO has a fit about something, and won't talk to you. Before finalizing the vacation, you need to discuss some details with SO, but SO won't talk to you. The time and money of others are involved; your work schedule is involved; but you need to discuss some details with your SO before you finalize things. Your SO has friends who could answer the questions for her. What do you do?

 

Oh boy.

 

 

Same pattern of communication as above. Another example of right-fighting.

 

What would I do?

 

1. Not this. This doesn't work. This sounds like a high-school math problem. Do you remember how much everyone loved those? Me neither. And I won the Math Scholarship in my school three semesters in a row.

 

2. Simply this: what was the 'fit' about? Why is my partner exploding and refusing to talk to me? What's THAT about? That's the bigger issue. At this rate we aren't going on vacation, we're hittibg the counselor's office because the last place I want to head with the person is out if town when things are this shaky.

 

3. If this is a usual pattern of conflict I say this: "Look, I know that there's a BIG ISSUE HERE. I don't know what it is. Of you want to talk to me, I'm open to it. Otherwise I can't finalize our vacation so I'll let this one go (or if you have brass balls, go alone) because there is NO JOINT VACATION without a joint RELATIONSHIP.

 

I wouldn't even touch the idea of asking her friends. Jeez. Triangulation. Not good. Not good at all. It also enforces an inappropriate avenue of communication. She doesn't want to talk directly. So she fields it through her friends. No way.

 

I can't even imagine calling up my husband's buddy going " do you think he'd be okay with the North-facing beach?" Oh boy no.

[sandylee1]

I find it interesting that several others in here are adamant about not talking to her friends. I can understand why it could be bothersome, but when communication is needed about something and there are no other options, what should one do? Take this example:

 

Let's say you and your SO are planning a vacation. The vacation involves you arranging time off from work and it involves other people's schedules as well. When you're just shy of finalizing things, your SO has a fit about something, and won't talk to you. Before finalizing the vacation, you need to discuss some details with SO, but SO won't talk to you. The time and money of others are involved; your work schedule is involved; but you need to discuss some details with your SO before you finalize things. Your SO has friends who could answer the questions for her. What do you do?

 

 

I've clearly pointed out the health hazards of food crumbs being left around.

 

You tell your SO that you are finalising the vacation plans and you need her schedule.

If she doesn't give it ....if she can't be mature enough not to throw a fit and provide the required info....then there are major issues you need to address before even having a vacation. In this situation I'd say I need the info to finalise...if I don't get it I will have to cancel the vacation. Or..I'll go by myself. Text her...so it's quite clear what you're asking and saying...she can't then later complain that you went away without her...you'll also have the evidence that you asked for her dates and we're clear it was urgent.

 

What if she didn't have friends who knew the info?. Third parties who are not professionals will only add to the problems. You keep contacting her friends and they have reason to discuss YOUR marriage not in a positive way. If nothing the friends may talk among each other about you and how bad things must be that you come to them.

 

My H did this once......went to my brother and I was furious. I told him that I never went to his brother if there was an issue.....I didn't want my family knowing my marital issues and I was clear that if he ever did that again. .......it wouldn't end well.

 

There's no problem wanting to live in a clean environment ....... but I suspect there's much more going on with both of you.....good clear communication..with you both having the right speaking and listening skills will help get to what those issues are.

 

Right now you're both not satisfied with things.....those things need to be brought out in the open..in a calm and civilised manner.

[veggirl]

Honestly i don't understand how people are defending her and blaming the OP. you can read in his posts that he is TRYING. he's obviously not perfect but he is TRYING which is a LOT more than she is doing! He should not have to clean up after his grown partner!!! If she won't try to fix HER glaring issues there is nothing he can do! She has to put in her 50%....and she's not. She won't do counseling, won't compromise on child-rearing, won't clean up after herself, won't speak to the OP as a normal person and threatens divorce! Sure OP could do some things better, as we all could, but she has WAY more issues than his little fixes are gonna help. And if she isn't willing to address them, there's no point in him continuing to try. I would tell her it's therapy or it's the divorce she likes to threaten with.

[Qboro90]

Let's say you and your SO are planning a vacation. The vacation involves you arranging time off from work and it involves other people's schedules as well. When you're just shy of finalizing things, your SO has a fit about something, and won't talk to you. Before finalizing the vacation, you need to discuss some details with SO, but SO won't talk to you. The time and money of others are involved; your work schedule is involved; but you need to discuss some details with your SO before you finalize things. Your SO has friends who could answer the questions for her. What do you do?

 

I would just clearly tell my wife that the vacation plans need to be done today because it's the last chance and if she could answer a few minor details you can complete it otherwise you're going to have to finalize the plans based of what would fit into your work schedule and your best guess as to what your wife's answers to those questions would be. If you tell her that then she has no rational way to complain later if you didn't get the details right because you gave her ample time and chances to participate and tell you. This will teach her to grow up otherwise she'll have to deal with the decision you make for her.

Pretty simple.

 

When you continue to go to her friends and involve them in your marital issues and decisions, you are not only embarrassing yourself and your wife, you're also asking women who are clearly going to side with her once she tells them her side of the story/version of things... Continuously for help/intervention into your life and your wives. Most people want to avoid going outside the home to discuss their issues with anyone else... You're doing the opposite.

 

Whatever decision you need to make that requires her input can be made by you rather than going through her friends. Unless your wife learns to communicate with you and you with her, then start taking control of what needs to be done instead of making it a community involved fiasco.

If yo want to ask her friends what they think she would like for Xmas or her birthday then that's something to reach out to them about. But other than that, leave them out of it. And please... Spare me the Jack and Jill example as a reply.

 

If you have no desire at all to separate from your wife then you can either go to counseling yourself in order to learn better ways to live with someone like your wife and have a functioning household and parenting ability.. Or do nothing an just deal with what you're unhappy about until it drives you mad.

 

I find it strange that you feel threatened by a stay at home mom with no source of income or evidence of you being a bad husband/father when she brings up Divorce. If anything you should be the one threatening her based off what you describe here.

 

Next time she brings it up just call her on her bluff. Ask her where she plans to live while you go through custody trial and divorce court? Ask her if she knows what she's entitled to based off your time together and your income. Then tell her that you know very well because you've gone to a divorce attorney already to find out (even if you haven't, tell her you have, she won't know either way and it will scare her). If she thinks you don't want custody of your child then start telling her that you don't just want custody... You want full custody because you feel like she's an unfit parent and will very clearly illustrate why that is in front of a judge.

 

I definitely sense that you can be hard to live with as well based off your rebuttles to the replies here that didn't take your side. If that's the case then you need to realize that your view towards things aren't always the end all be all of a situation. Your wife leaves crumbs on the floor? Use a vacuum. Your wife doesn't take your kid to the park? Be a good father and take him yourself . Where is your participation in parenting here?

 

If you show her that you have no fear of divorce and have planned your finances already, then it will stop her from using it as a threat. You don't even have to divorce her, but you need to show her that it's essential she see a counselor with you as well as a doctor because of the PPd signs you've noticed.

 

PPD is incredibly common and very serious with new mothers. You need to realize that this is something she cannot control or help. Think of it like cancer. It's not her fault that she has is. But she can't cure herself. She needs to have a dr look at her and run some tests to figure out what to prescribe her.

 

My sister in law had PPd after her first child and developed such detrimental anxiety attacks she was put on Xanax and other medication. She went from being terrified of leaving the house with the baby, to being able to let the daughter run around at the park with the other kids as she sat nearby. It's treatable and curable but you need to be supportive and helpful instead of thinking she should just snap outta it. She won't. It's like snapping out of having cancer. Not possible.