plauged by indecison

[66Charger]

Funny thing brady, Your opinion on your own thread doesnt differ much from Leighs.

So I assume you will incorporate that statement when it comes to your own wife? , By your words about her, it is you who may be "overly harsh"

 

Your last post sounded good Laura. If you want to become a free woman, then do so. Just keep your honor. Sometimes, if you do not love a person, that doesnt mean there is something wrong with them, nor does it mean that something is wrong with you. You just don't.

[Brady375]

Charger. Again this is a safe place to vent. So if I blow off steam that's fine. I say in my post i feel like a parent and my wife can act like a total child. It's how I feel. Harsh?? I'm posting on a forum. No one knows me or my wife. It Harms no one and it's a place to vent. I 100% apply my own statements to my own situation and I'm a committed person. My situation on the surface (cus I really don't know what Laura is going through) is different than hers since we do not have kids together and she is at the age where the next several years are her critical child having years. And I am not having kids w her which was disclosed as a strong possibility from the onset. So I'd say my situation is a lot different. I have vastly different things to consider moving forward and my decision isn't just for me but also for my wife who I care about.

I provide Pretty Balanced advice on here only to help since I have recieved help. I wish u the best. I don't know you and you don't know me, ultimately we all have to make our own choices. What anyone on this forum thinks me or you included doesn't matter much. Best of luck.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Brady375

[laura_wells]

Brady, thank you! I appreciate what u have to say. I actually just finished a session with my therapist. We spoke about my longing for passion and intimacy. She assured me that I would get it. She is working with both myself and my husband. She feels that I need to learn to develop the ability for intimacy from within and not to wait to get it from others. If I want it in a relationship I should pull it out from within and carry it into my relationships. She is similarly working with my husband on being more vulnerable in trying to get what he wants in the relationship without waiting for me to being receptive and agreeable. It's complicating but it makes sense to me. I'm going with it. She doesn't feel like we're ready to start dating and seeing if we have what we need in each other yet. Otherwise we'll be disappointed. She said in another month or so we should be strong enough to start the process. We'll then see whether we can create intimacy between us. However if I don't feel that I can get what I need from him after doing this I simply couldn't remain in this marriage. it is simply unfair for me to sacrifice my happiness for my children. I perhaps should have never gotten into this but I have and I need to take it from here. I don't think that that's what you were saying, Brady, but rather to give it my all, which I will be doing and seeing where it takes me.

[laura_wells]

Brady, for one I don't think u are being rash or reckless. I think anyone coming to this forum is showing a form of maturity. We are obviously here because we are torn and looking for advice and support. We are not making rash decisions and are being honest and open about our circumstances and feelings. I think we owe it to each other to show respect in what we share without having to feel intimidated or that we have to weigh our words. Thanks all

[Brady375]

Laura that's awesome news to hear. And that's all I was really getting at which was to give it your all. Your initial post like I said seemed to Lean more towards exiting so I just wanted to provide the Flip side so my post has been more to staying. Only so you consider all angles, I am in no position to tell u what is the right thing to do. If my posts are slanted towards staying and you can read it and are comfortable w the statements I pose then maybe ur on the right track. If I talk about Commitment and obligations to the kids and there is still a strong feeling of guilt there maybe you have more work to do simply to settle ur mind and put yourself at ease so u know u did everything u could and to ensure your comfortable w your decisions long term.

People get into an extremely difficult situation when a marriage is failing and what feels better Instantly is to sometimes leave or pull away. And temporary space may be a necessity. But it doesn't mean it can't be repaired. What's a few months in the great scheme of things. By your recent posts it seems your really open to being positive and giving this an honest try. I think if you do that and give it your all then Either Way you'll be better off. If it works great, you'll have your needs met and you WILL be happy. If it sadly doesn't you'll have a Strong piece of mind Knowing you did all you Reasonably could to fix things. You'll have doubts and second guess yourself but No where near the degree you would if you weren't honest w yourself and left before putting your all into it.

Like the worst thing that could happen to me I feel is divorcing only to feel a couple years later that a made a huge mistake. So I'm trying to eliminate as much doubt of that happening as possible. I have no kids, but we are both going to counseling on our own. I'm hoping the mrs works on her self and moves in a positive direction w her life.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Brady375

[testmeasure]

Edit: When I wrote the post below, I hadn't seen this:

 

She doesn't feel like we're ready to start dating and seeing if we have what we need in each other yet. Otherwise we'll be disappointed. She said in another month or so we should be strong enough to start the process. We'll then see whether we can create intimacy between us. However if I don't feel that I can get what I need from him after doing this I simply couldn't remain in this marriage.

 

If there is a reasonable hope things can be fixed or saved, pursue that with the therapist first.

 

 

Original Post:

 

I do believe in general kids are better off with both parents together. If things can be saved, every effort within reason should be made to save them.

 

If you can't work things out, the two of you are going to be miserable right up to the point the last kid turns 18 and the two of you get a divorce. If that ends up being the case, the kids would have been better off if you had figured this out as early as possible and gotten a divorce as soon as possible.

 

The pivotal question being when does it become unreasonable to hope that things can be saved?

 

If you end things while it's still reasonable to hope that they could be saved, it's absolutely reasonable to feel guilt.

 

If you end things after it becomes unreasonable to hope that things can be saved, then it's not reasonable to feel guilty about ending them.

 

Maybe shift gears with the Therapist and talk some about:

(1) Whether it's still reasonable to hope that it can be fixed or saved.

(2) If it doesn't get fixed and the 2 of you are miserable, explore the effect that would have on the kids long term.

 

I hear you giving all these factual reasons why it can't be saved. But your emotional reaction with guilt and hesitation kind of says you're not convinced of this.

 

So, explore it with the therapist. But, the guilt might also be coming from a misconception of what might be in the kids best interest. So explore also with the therapist what is in the kids best interest if the two of you stay together and are miserable.

 

If you can sort out whether there is any reasonable hope left and what is in the kids best interest for you to do if there is not, then I think everything will fall into place.

 

Personally I suspect it's very, very damaging for kids to grow up with two parents who make each other miserable. They need examples of healthy relationships, not unhealthy ones. I think putting an unhealthy relationship front and center and just holding it there by sheer willpower, is actually kind of twisted.

 

I'm not a professional in any field related to this. I've been through a divorce with a child involved, but not under these conditions.

Edited January 29, 2016 by testmeasure

[laura_wells]

Brady, thanks. I definitely feel more comfortable now knowing that one way or another I will get what I need and, like u said, there is no rush. What's is another few months in the greater scheme of things? It will also help to alleviate any guilt feelings if we do end in divorce. I hope this time works for you too in finding clarity and hopefully your wife will make the changes you need to see in her.

Testmeasure, thanks. I mentioned to my therapist that I would give it another three months to see where things go. She said that it was better to live from the inside out than the outside in. Meaning to measure the way things are going by my feelings and intuition rather than by a specific time frame. If I see things progressing I can keep moving forward and advancing.. She described her work as planting seeds in my husband. At first, as in now, you don't see the growth. It's all in the ground but in short time will see tiny bud growing and will grow incrementally. So I'm trying not to go with a specific time frame and hope things will move along in reasonable timing.

[Brady375]

That's great to read Laura. Sounds like you have a much better handle and understanding of things. I think this will be great for you either way. You'll have piece of mind.

[Popsicle]

If you are already separated for 3 months then you have already "broken up the family". The kids are already adapting.

[Brady375]

Real constructive post Popsicle.

[Popsicle]

Real constructive post Popsicle.

 

I think she should divorce and not stay "for the kids". They have already begun to get used to things as separated. Something to keep in mind...

Edited January 30, 2016 by Popsicle

[Brady375]

ok u don't know her or her husband or situation personally. For a person to Read an post Online and suggest that she divorce merely on this info isn't the correct thing to do. To suggest that she examine all info and options first and to provide constructive advice to get her thinking is one thing. Saying she should divorce is nonsense. Sorry, and I hope she takes her time w things and comes to a decision she's comfortable with. And currently she ISNt staying for just the Kids, by staying and putting in every bit of work possible it's a WIN WIN. She can either get what she needs from the relationship WiTh Work, or After she is honest w herself and feels that they did everything they could she will be able to leave w A lot less guilt hanging over her head, she can leave and have piece of mind.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Brady375

[66Charger]

Why dont you let the OP respond to her own thread? Popsicle and anyone else can say what they wish without you CONSTANTLY telling people they dont know what they are talking about. Feel free to give your opinion, but in regards to others.... be silent dude.

Edited January 31, 2016 by 66Charger

[ShatteredLady]

I understand your feelings of guilt. You feel so very responsible for your lack of feelings. You're blaming yourself & your 'lack of compatibility' & your 'coldness' for the state of your marriage.

 

Reading your posts something hit me REALLY hard....

 

Let's pretend you worded your first post differently.

 

"I'm having trouble in my marriage. It's taking a huge emotional toll on me. My H runs away from situations & wont discuss them in a mature way. He goes out to bars, returning home in the early hours of the morning. I drive myself crazy trying to find where he is & what he's doing. He doesn't answer his phone.

 

He's made several credit card charges to Ashley Madison (a site dedicated to enabling adultery!) what are these charges for? Ive caught him having inappropriate explicit sexual conversations with women he wooed & PAYED for on AM.

 

Despite knowing the emotional pain & stress he causes me he continues to disappear all night & I've had to monitor him. He's hanging out in bars half the night doing god knows what! I wouldn't know this if I hadn't tracked his movements!!

 

I trust that he's being faithful to me despite much evidence to the contrary. I don't have respect for him or an intimate connection. What do you think? Please help!"

 

What responses would you be getting?

 

Sorry if you've made peace with all of these behaviors & don't wish to focus on them anymore. I'm just saying, if my H was behaving in this way, guilt about MY feelings & behavior wouldn't be my main concern.

 

I'd find it very hard to have an open trusting relationship with a man behaving this way. I consider the whole AM stuff as CHEATING! Why don't you? It's my understanding that 'several' credit card charges to AM means he's more than window shopping.

 

Why are you so sure that he's only sat drinking all night at these bars? I find that very suspicious & inappropriate behavior for a married man with children. You're sat home, caring for your kids, worried sick about him...that's not conducive to the kind of marriage you want. The kind of marriage that you're blaming yourself for not having.

[laura_wells]

Shatteredlady, thank you! You so poignantly expressed my deepest pains and hurt. This is expressly the way I've been feeling while going through this tumultuous time. I think that I have learned as a child, because of my disturbing childhood, to shut down my emotions. I feel the pain but don't let it get to me. I forget, I move on. It's my coping mechanism. The way I get passed all the pain and move on.

I will never forget the sleepless nights of not being able to reach him, he finally answers, promises to be back and doesn't return for another long while. When he finally returns, reeking and lying over my tears and pain that he was only with friends. I remember the pain of finding those AM account charges that I was paying for, of tracking his phone and learning that he was actually at a bar all those nights.. I remember all the times I would be awake all night waiting for him, only to have 1-2 hrs before the kids would awake and have to put on a smile and carry on my day in good cheer while he slept in. I remember the times I made him a surprise birthday party for all his friends and got him 4 gifts and would receive no gifts, or cards or parties for myself on my birthday. I remember the time he forgot our anniversary and when suggesting we go out he was too tired and asked to push it off only to have never gone. I remember all the times he was too tired or busy studying to ever go out on dates.

It's come a time that I cease to forget all the reasons I couldn't find it in my heart to love and respect him; why we are in this predicament in the first place. I've tried and tried all our marriage and I'm now trying some more.

But who knows.. My therapist claims that this all came from a weak place rather than a cheating place. He didn't know how to communicate his needs and frustrations and this was his desperate attempt to come up for air. Should I forgive him in the face of his weakness or hold him accountable for actions? He hasn't provided me with a remorseful apology but then again he is still weak and isn't "healed" yet. It's the goal of therapy to get him there.

Truth be told, I've been wondering why I'm so resistant to working things out with him. Even with my attempts at being open to change I'm finding it shallow and couldn't point my finger on it. I think I'm still angry and still hurt and not ready for reconciliation. However, perhaps, if he improves drastically and can reach within me and apologize in a sincere and heartfelt manner, who knows? Maybe I'll be able to move past it. Knowing that it wasn't a personal affront against me but his own personal deficiency, allows me to give him the shot. And the fact that he is seeking the kind of help he needs and going through the process.

But thanks, shatteredlady, for reminding me why I'm feelings all this resistance and cutting myself some slack.

[Brady375]

Ultimately charger you are right. I'm emotionally shot out dealing w my own situation. No need for me to get involved in something like that despite my own opinions on the matter.

[laura_wells]

nonetheless, appreciate ur support, Brady

[laura_wells]

I'm at a loss. I feel like I'm wasting my time in therapy. I don't want to he in this marriage. I don't want to be married to this man. I don't see anything changing. I don't have any feelings for him and feel that if I remain in this marriage I'll be faking it. I'm only now being authentic about the way I feel after 9 year and am so afraid of going back to that place of being in but wanting to be anywhere but. Is it possible for that to change? My therapist thinks that we haven't really seen each other in the greater scope of who we are and there is more to each other that we don't know exists. I don't really buy it. I feel like she's trying to keep us in therapy to fill her pockets. Any one with any experience where after not feeling anything for years it can suddenly come through working it out in therapy?

[Brady375]

Despite being a mess in my own life Laura like I have said before. It ISNT easy. It's Hard. But if you give the therapy thing an honest try and be open to things and don't just sit and do it so you said you Tried for the kids. If you legit give it a shot over a Reasonable amount of time in therapy w ur husband you'll be in a WIN WIN situation. You'll either get what you want out of your marriage or see that w work you can. Or you'll know w Certainty you tried your best and the level of guilt u will feel will be much less considering the kids are involved.

Easier said then done I know. I don't live your life. I don't have kids and I myself find it a true struggle going to therapy With my wife to work on things. To each their own. Only reason i state the things I do in your situation is cus kids are involved and I think you'll have True piece of mind I'm the End. And if you can Truely get that I don't think another couple months of time spent dealing w this will out weigh that. But only you Truely know you situation and where things are at.

If you do go through w making this permenant I wouldn't go looking for love or the things you lacked in this relationship. I would hold strong and get happy and Content being by yourself. Happy w your life and your accomplishments wo anyone else adding to your life. When you can do that you will be in the best spot to find the best person for you and not repeat this. You'll be Centered as a person. Whole. Despite our differences in situation that's what I'm already doing. I have been even wo friends coming to the rescue. And I'm ok w that. I'm home on my days off all day by myself. Enjoying my time getting right w myself thinking about what I need to do in life. Once I get my Own Personal Direction I know I Need to Go in life to be happy and get self respect I'll be on my way and if I meet someone who supports that and fits into that. Great. If not I'll still A-OK Just my take. Feel better

[laura_wells]

Thanks Brady. Problem being that deep down I feel like I hope things don't work out in the end. I hope he doesn't improve to the point where I feel like I would have to take him back. I feel like it's him that I don't want and it's so difficult to pretend that I'm hoping and trying to make things better. I know it sounds disgusting and cruel to put him through this feeling the way I do and only going through the motions to appease my guilt, but it's so hard to know how to give it an honest try when I don't want it to work? So I simply go through the motions?! I honestly don't know what it means to give it an honest shot when it's not something I'm interested in pursuing.

[Brady375]

Holy moly lol. Laura I know exactly how you feel. That's a very Honest no BS Post you just wrote. It's not disgusting and trust me your not the only person feeling that way. These are feelings and in the history of time you are not the first person to feel that way. No way in hell. I feel that exact way too and if I had kids it's not like my "feelings" would be any different. Wow. That post really hit home w me. "Hoping he doesn't improve" or however you put. I feel the same way, for me I broke down and Mourned the relationship. The part of me that was really Attached to her Left and that was a Big factor keeping my head in the game w her. Once I broke down and the Majority of that attachment Left I mentally didn't want to let her back in to regain a Foot hold back in my heart and mind. Why? Because wo the strong emotional attachment I was focused more on logical pros and cons and their weren't strong incentives for Me to go back to the relationship and want to be In the Type of marriage we had w No kids.

 

Again it's not easy. It's a personal decision. Maybe you find the drive to go through w therapy w him for a couple months just to make sure your not leaving Any Stone unturned. Even in my situation I'm waiting atleast because I want to make sure w such a permenant decision of divorce I don't leave a single stone unturned. I'm getting as much info and examining things as much as possible, making sure my feelings don't start wavering. Worst thing I feel I could do is as time goes on I start feeling differently and I regret getting divorced though I'll never regret getting married.

[laura_wells]

Lol Brady. Thanks for the support. I've been thinking a lot on what ur saying. I suppose that what that means is that I want to see that although I'm feeling these things now doesn't mean they might not change. I need to assure myself that If I keep feeling this way I know which direction I need to go and if, and only if, through this separation and time working with the therapist, my feelings change, I'll take it from there. So I guess it means putting these feelings aside for the time being without keep asking myself "should I stay or should I go" and just go along for the ride and make a decision when I gave it a reasonable amount of time.

 

Another idea I'm having is that wondering if I'm wanting to end this so badly because of alternate reasons. I know that my personality is such that when I go about something I need to see it carried through to the end. I don't let things get in my way. I'm wondering if I want this to end and him not to change just so I can be right all along and to complete what I began. Sounds kinda insane, I know. But just a thought..

[Brady375]

Not insane at all Laura. Your doing some good digging I think. And like I said nothing wrong about what your feeling your cutting through the BS and being real honest about things.

The feeling of wanting to be right "all along" I think is normal. Let's be honest here.....it also Seems easier to Be Right and to be done w it. In the current moment being right means you can get away from this negative situation and feelings. It seems easier.....getting away from him right now feels right. BUT the easy thing and the Right thing is usually not the same thing. I'm not saying at all that your feelings are wrong or that eventually splitting in your situation won't be better for you. What I'm saying is don't leave a stone unturned, reiterating my last post basically. And though getting away from the situation may satisfy your feelings it won't be Easier w kids. It will bring its own problems going through a divorce.

Also remember what's Real. What's real and is tangible is your marriage husband and family, you currently have them. They are there for you. What's also real if you seperate is you alone by yourself. Not w Mr. Right because that isn't real. Each person has their own bag of Nonsene to deal w and you don't know if you'll ever meet another person. Likely but thinking about that when weighing options i don't think helps because when thinking about divorce I think even myself will think about that Next Great relationship and it's all bs it's all in my head.

Worst thing would be to divorce and never have that materialize and then have regret, thinking man she or he was a good person I could of worked at it.

My personal options are to work at my marriage and it's problems or realize it will never be an overall "lifestyle" w the good and bad I want w her. I decide this by basing it off of all the info I have collected over the past decade being w her and knowing her, I make the best decision I can w what Cards I have in my hand right now. OR I can go my own way and if that's the Case I think about what my Life by MYSELF will be like, what will I make it what will do and where will I go, what will the single life by Myself provide me that a life w wife cannot. Because that's real.....I know that's what I will have. It's real.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Brady375

[laura_wells]

Thank you Brady for being so honest. Truth be told, I think I would be far better off alone than with him. There is nothing, and never has been anything, that he contributes to my happiness, well being, financial state, peace.. And I can go on. In fact, I mostly felt burdened by his presence. His depressed state and negative and immature outlook on life is far from pleasant to be around. We really lived like roommates with the sole common interest being our children. Now, because I have children I don't think it would be easier to be without him in the raising and caring of them, but then again is that enough? So, yes, even if I remained single I would be better off without him except for the inconvenience of raising children alone.

[Brady375]

What does he do in helping you raise the kids? How would your currently lifestyle of raising the kids be different on your own compared to how it is now w him home helping you?