Constant Reminders

[Popsicle]

Today has been a hard day for me too for some reason thinking about xMM (maybe it's the rain?) so I understand.

[WestEndGirl]

Oh I can think of many more idiotic things I've done, staying with their kids dad for as long as I did with the abuse he put me through being the biggest one but for some reason this just seems so much harder than everything else. Maybe because I didn't want it to end, because I wasn't ready for it?

 

I think one thing APs tend to forget is that these Rs end unnaturally and prematurely. Typically, a R or M simply runs its course ... the communication and intimacy is severed, and two people turn into very different people, and then they tend to go their own different ways ...

 

Not true with an A. They end when love is full-fledged and lovers are totally engaged. They end not because they end, but because someone "has" to end it, and that's what makes it really difficult to reconcile. I too wanted just a little more time ... more memories. At least time for us to realize that we wouldn't have a future together, even if MM were free. That didn't happen for me, so ... well, there ya go.

[BeautifulIdiot]

I'm sure it's entirely the wrong perspective but I keep thinking that at least he has something to focus on. Something he wants. I know it'll be hard for them and it's by no means happiness and sunshine but there's something. There's focus. There's a goal. There's what he (they) chose.

 

That's what makes it so hard. I have nothing but triggers and memories but although I'm sure it's hard for him in moments he's more focused on making things right which means for every moment he might have thinking of me or missing me there a hundred more he will spend apologising for me and what he did which is right but hell if that doesn't hurt. I'm here hurting and thinking about him and longing for him and he's out there apologising for me and writing me out of his life with every calculated move to get back what he chose.

 

It just makes me feel worthless at times and makes me wonder not how I can trust someone else, but how can I ever trust myself again. Either it wasn't what I thought it was or it was and it still wasn't enough.

[WestEndGirl]

... I'm sure it's hard for him in moments he's more focused on making things right which means for every moment he might have thinking of me or missing me there a hundred more he will spend apologising for me and what he did which is right but hell if that doesn't hurt.

 

Not that it's any consolation, but he probably, in his heart of hearts, doesn't mean it. Or, if he does, he's trying to assuage his own guilt for being a WS. Perspective changes over the years, too. There are things I apologized to my exH for, honestly and truly, and now I look back and ask myself, "Why the heck was I apologizing so much?" Things I once regretted long ago, I don't regret at all now.

 

This is all conjecture, of course.

[Popsicle]

I'm sure it's entirely the wrong perspective but I keep thinking that at least he has something to focus on. Something he wants. I know it'll be hard for them and it's by no means happiness and sunshine but there's something. There's focus. There's a goal. There's what he (they) chose.

 

That's what makes it so hard. I have nothing but triggers and memories but although I'm sure it's hard for him in moments he's more focused on making things right which means for every moment he might have thinking of me or missing me there a hundred more he will spend apologising for me and what he did which is right but hell if that doesn't hurt. I'm here hurting and thinking about him and longing for him and he's out there apologising for me and writing me out of his life with every calculated move to get back what he chose.

 

It just makes me feel worthless at times and makes me wonder not how I can trust someone else, but how can I ever trust myself again. Either it wasn't what I thought it was or it was and it still wasn't enough.

 

Just don't go with married or taken men and you will have conquered half the battle.

[BeautifulIdiot]

WestEndGirl (were/are you a Pet Shop Boys fan?) you're probably right. He told me that he wished things could have been different but that he'd never truly be able to regret what we had. If he had the chance to only do it the same way he would do it all over again just to love me. Of course he wishes things had been different and if he could change things he would but if he could only do it the exact same way he would do it every time.

 

Of course that could all be lies to make me feel better or the apologies and regret he's claiming now to make his wife feel better could be. He even lied to his therapist about us so I guess we'll never know what's the truth and what's not. For what's it's worth I always believed what he told me was the truth. It was one of our 'things' (not unique I'm sure) was that it was the most 'honest' relationship either of us ever had and one thing we would never do was lie or, or let each other lie, to the other. He never told me bad things about his marriage. We did talk about it and he was always conflicted and I respected that. We always managed to play this dance of friends and lovers expertly where we could be friends to each other before anything and talk about anything, including relationships, how we felt, what we wanted and what the best thing was without involving our own relationship. Compartmentalization was apparently strong within me at that time.

[BeautifulIdiot]

Just don't go with married or taken men and you will have conquered half the battle.

 

I dont think I've ever said this before but it seems appropriate...tru 'dat

[Popsicle]

I'm sure it's entirely the wrong perspective but I keep thinking that at least he has something to focus on. Something he wants. I know it'll be hard for them and it's by no means happiness and sunshine but there's something. There's focus. There's a goal. There's what he (they) chose.

 

That's what makes it so hard. I have nothing but triggers and memories but although I'm sure it's hard for him in moments he's more focused on making things right which means for every moment he might have thinking of me or missing me there a hundred more he will spend apologising for me and what he did which is right but hell if that doesn't hurt. I'm here hurting and thinking about him and longing for him and he's out there apologising for me and writing me out of his life with every calculated move to get back what he chose.

 

I don't know your story, or your or his personality, but this much is true.....whoever he is in love with and the one he feels is in love with him, is the one he is thinking of.

 

That will have to be good enough for you both.

 

It's sweet really, when you think about it...

[WestEndGirl]

WestEndGirl (were/are you a Pet Shop Boys fan?) you're probably right. He told me that he wished things could have been different but that he'd never truly be able to regret what we had. If he had the chance to only do it the same way he would do it all over again just to love me. Of course he wishes things had been different and if he could change things he would but if he could only do it the exact same way he would do it every time.

 

The Pet Shop Boys are okay, but I chose it because I live on the west side of the city.

 

I do think that As are, for the most part, a lot more honest than the M the WS is trying to escape. After my H's A ended, his ex-lover sent me reams and reams of their correspondence -- mind you, I had almost decided at that point that I was going to leave. But in their emails, I found out what my H had really been thinking and feeling about me and our M. I asked him if all of it was true, and he didn't deny it.

 

So it was very helpful to me to see inside of his mind so I could know how to proceed. He would have never been that honest with me, because I was paying his way. That would have been really stupid of him. I wasn't angry with his ex-lover, BTW. I emailed her and thanked her!

[Outofmysystem]

WestEndGirl (were/are you a Pet Shop Boys fan?) you're probably right. He told me that he wished things could have been different but that he'd never truly be able to regret what we had. If he had the chance to only do it the same way he would do it all over again just to love me. Of course he wishes things had been different and if he could change things he would but if he could only do it the exact same way he would do it every time.

 

Of course that could all be lies to make me feel better or the apologies and regret he's claiming now to make his wife feel better could be. He even lied to his therapist about us so I guess we'll never know what's the truth and what's not. For what's it's worth I always believed what he told me was the truth. It was one of our 'things' (not unique I'm sure) was that it was the most 'honest' relationship either of us ever had and one thing we would never do was lie or, or let each other lie, to the other. He never told me bad things about his marriage. We did talk about it and he was always conflicted and I respected that. We always managed to play this dance of friends and lovers expertly where we could be friends to each other before anything and talk about anything, including relationships, how we felt, what we wanted and what the best thing was without involving our own relationship. Compartmentalization was apparently strong within me at that time.

 

 

My A sounds much like yours, and I'm also at 3 months of NC and also get triggers all the time too....the "tell each other the truth" part was also something that my MOW and I would keep, and I believed that everything she told me was true, still do.....there wasn't really any reason to lie since we were inside of a lie all along.....she told me things that she NEVER told anyone in her life, Mother, Husband, Sister, no one....that kept us best friends and best lovers for 6 years, but like Westendgirl said, "they end not because they end, but because someone HAS to end it"....(profound by the way, thanks West!). My AP ended it with me, it has been extremely hard....and as a guy, there are (I assume) a lot like me that love(ed) their AP absolutly, and that breaking up eats them up just as much as the OW married or not. Although she was the one to end it, I choose to believe she had(has) as hard a time as I've had, because to think other wise is to believe that you ment nothing.....and you, like I know, really know you didn't, and I didn't mean nothing....

 

We are too special as to have not ment anything......just tell yourself that, and resign it to the truth.....hang in there, I'm in your same boat ....

[BeautifulIdiot]

I decided to go work somewhere else today. I still have reminders when I'm working on things but just by being in a different environment it doesn't feel quite so crushing and claustrophobic. Baby steps.

[privategal]

I decided to go work somewhere else today. I still have reminders when I'm working on things but just by being in a different environment it doesn't feel quite so crushing and claustrophobic. Baby steps.

 

Rearrange your whole office. Put some cozy happy things around...plants...some positive wuotes framed...move the desk....redecorate.

Id even get new bedding.

Change every room and reminder. Its a mental thing and helps so much.

[wanderingxsoulz]

I'm currently in the more positive phase and not feeling like I want to die (my mood fluctuates) but I'm still having trouble forgiving myself.

[NewLeaf512]

 

 

 

My concern when I read your post is that you can fall into a rut, a pattern. MM has become used to treating you as a side dish. I think both men and women, when they put someone in a certain role, never make the adjustment to putting that person in another role. When I was single and dating a single man, we started our relationship with him still wounded from his divorce five years earlier. He didn't treat me right, was absent on all special days (often without an excuse or reason), had more issues than I could begin to list here. He kept me at arms length and was resistant to all dating milestones. And for too long I let myself be treated like crap. Eventually, I started standing up for myself and demanding some respect. That's when I got the "I don't love you and think I deserve to find someone who loves me." We dated for three years, he declined my requests to move in together. Four weeks after breaking up with me, he moved his new girlfriend into his house. Five months after breaking up with me, he married her.

.

 

 

This is something that has recently been a topic in my therapy. I have mostly always been a people pleasing doormat. As I have started learning about myself and developing my own identity and deciding on some things that **I** want instead of what they want using boundaries when needed, people in my life have been getting FURIOUS. This has been a complete shock. About a month ago, it hit me and I told my therapist, "I get it now. They wanted a doormat. I gave them a doormat. I'm now a chair but they still want a doormat. They aren't happy I have changed into a chair, they just want me to stay a doormat. If they don't accept me as a chair, then they have no place with me because I am never going back to a doormat"

 

 

BeautifulYou (I'm not calling you idiot)

 

 

Hello. I am not saying welcome because there is no one really who wants to be a member of this group, yet here we are. How are you today? What have you done for you today?

 

 

NL

[Ms. Faust]

This is something that has recently been a topic in my therapy. I have mostly always been a people pleasing doormat. As I have started learning about myself and developing my own identity and deciding on some things that **I** want instead of what they want using boundaries when needed, people in my life have been getting FURIOUS. This has been a complete shock. About a month ago, it hit me and I told my therapist, "I get it now. They wanted a doormat. I gave them a doormat. I'm now a chair but they still want a doormat. They aren't happy I have changed into a chair, they just want me to stay a doormat. If they don't accept me as a chair, then they have no place with me because I am never going back to a doormat"

 

 

BeautifulYou (I'm not calling you idiot)

 

 

Hello. I am not saying welcome because there is no one really who wants to be a member of this group, yet here we are. How are you today? What have you done for you today?

 

 

NL

 

What is an example of your acquaintances getting upset with you for curbing your people pleasing habits? I am curious as I am a terrible people pleaser, myself.

[NewLeaf512]

Lady - that's the thing...all of my close friends are married. I have one who I can and do lean on, heavily and often, but aside from the fact that it's awful listening to someone keep going on about how heartbroken they are how can I possibly tell the rest of my married friends that I'm heartbroken over a married man because that means I was (am?) the woman they all hate and/or fear. So, all through it I just have to pretend like everything's ok and of course they never knew about him so how do I possibly explain being heartbroken over something that didn't exist in the first place.

 

I've also been through a bit of a rough time with the father of my kids and quite honestly I don't usually do drama but that's all I feel like it is now and I just want it to be over. Unfortunately I also want a happy ending (which I know isn't going to happen) but secretly I'm still clinging on to any small hope that there's a future for me with him. My head knows it's stupid but my heart, well my heart it an idiot.

 

 

That is why we are here. So you can talk about it.

 

 

How long has it been?

[NewLeaf512]

What is an example of your acquaintances getting upset with you for curbing your people pleasing habits? I am curious as I am a terrible people pleaser, myself.

 

 

Hi Ms Faust,

 

 

A people pleasing behaviour I often did was to host friends overnight at one of the clubs I am a member of in my city after a social event such as a dinner, cocktails, theatre, concert or combinations of all of those, or allowing them to use my car service instead of taking public transport. Occasionally, people would overstep and use my account without me offering it and I never said anything because I was easily able to afford it and I made excuses as to why they hadn't asked. I changed the password on the account. 2 "friends" tried in the same week to use my account without asking and got declined, one of them called me at 3am and said.. "NewLeaf, I just tried to get a car and I don't have the new password." I said, "I beg your pardon? Are you in trouble? Have you been mugged?!"

 

 

She said "No! whyever would you think that?"

 

 

Me "I thought that your purse must have been stolen and that's why you were ordering cars on my service without asking me?"

 

 

She put the phone down and I've not heard from her since.

 

 

 

 

I think saying no Beautiful is something that might be a good thing to practice, with yourself as I did. Say no to allowing yourself to question if the feelings you had for exMM and he for you during that time were real. They were real to you, that is what matters.

 

 

Say no to feeling "less than" anything. You are a mother, a friend a daughter, an employee, a neighbour, and so much more. You take up a place in this world that is valuable and unique.

[BeautifulIdiot]

That is why we are here. So you can talk about it.

 

 

How long has it been?

 

It's been just over three months of hard NC. After it ended we had just over a week where we talked about things which was a blessing and a curse. I was the person he called on Dday and as he was on his way home he intended to finish it but when it came to it he couldn't. He was always honest with me so I've no reason to doubt what he told me and he told me that I wasn't second place. It wasn't a competition, she was his only option he just didn't see that before. I guess the fog lifted that night he went home. He had to do it for himself for what it once was and what a terrible job he did of trying to get back what they once had. He has to, wants to, try and he will. He'll do everything to save it, to make it what it was and get back their happiness. I feel horrible even feeling bad for that. It's what he should always have been doing and I want him to be happy and that's where he wants to be happy. It took me 2 months to figure out what happened between us talking on his way home and him changing his mind and what he wanted is what changed and I have to find a way to come to terms with that. He also told me that he wished he'd met me first and that he's sorry he did this to me at a time when he couldn't give me what I deserved and that he has to try. He can live with whatever happens after that but he has to know that he tried, really 100% tried. And that's the thing that breaks my brain. He said it was like erosion. They just fell out of love and were room mates. They talked about it and she said she'd also felt like that for 7 years. They started therapy after that conversation to see if there was anything worth saving. At that point he'd obviously decided there wasnt but he wanted to go through it with her and he wanted to figure out what went wrong so that it did't happen again. And that's what I keep thinking about. What if it doesn't work? The thing with erosion is once something's gone it's gone, it doesn't come back. My head however knows that they're both good people who love each other and will do everything and everything to get back what they had and I'm almost sure theirs is going to be one of those stories about how the thing that could have destroyed them made them stronger than ever. But damn my stupid heart and it's insistence in ignoring what my head knows.

 

Apologies for the rambling but this is the first time I've written these thoughts down. It's somewhat cathartic.

 

 

This is something that has recently been a topic in my therapy. I have mostly always been a people pleasing doormat. As I have started learning about myself and developing my own identity and deciding on some things that **I** want instead of what they want using boundaries when needed, people in my life have been getting FURIOUS. This has been a complete shock. About a month ago, it hit me and I told my therapist, "I get it now. They wanted a doormat. I gave them a doormat. I'm now a chair but they still want a doormat. They aren't happy I have changed into a chair, they just want me to stay a doormat. If they don't accept me as a chair, then they have no place with me because I am never going back to a doormat"

 

 

BeautifulYou (I'm not calling you idiot)

 

 

Hello. I am not saying welcome because there is no one really who wants to be a member of this group, yet here we are. How are you today? What have you done for you today?

 

 

NL

 

I started seeing a therapist and within two sessions she declared me a peacenik which is essentially what you're describing. I've looked it up and it doesn't appear to be a recognised term but how she described it pretty much hit the nail on the head. Not so much a doormat but someone who will project how someone is likely to react emotionally to a situation and someone who after recognising that will change their own behaviour to positively control the other persons emotions. Happens with parents who have addiction issues or if you've been around abusive relationships apparently. I stopped therapy because I didnt feel like I was getting out of it what I wanted although I will go back to someone else when I feel more ready to talk about things but that really did stick with me and it's helped me recognise and change my own behaviour. Basically, it made to realise I'm doing that so I could see it for what it was, stop and feel ok about recognising, if not pushing, my own emotional needs in situations. Ironically xMM helped me enormously with this and always made me stop and think about what *I* wanted/needed out of a situation, grow a backbone and stand up for it. He made me better in a lot of ways. He says I did the same for him. One thing he said while he was leaving which is burned into my head is that he knows how selfish it is to even say it but thank you for saving me (him). "I know it's selfish to say that and then I'm gone but thank you."

 

Sorry, rambling again.

 

What have I done for myself today? I worked somewhere else so I didn't think about him and wrote all of this stuff down for the first time. Luckily I have my kids to keep me somewhat sane otherwise I could see how it could be very easy to get even more lost in the depths of this than I already am.

Edited December 7, 2015 by BeautifulIdiot

[WestEndGirl]

... but like Westendgirl said, "they end not because they end, but because someone HAS to end it"....(profound by the way, thanks West!).

 

Thank you. There are also artificial barriers between the WS and his/her lover that are not there in other relationships. The problem is that communication cannot be sustained, and communication is the relationship. As the WS becomes increasingly wary -- perhaps there's been a D-Day or two -- he/she cuts back on communication -- depth, frequency, duration. All of these things are key to healthy Rs. Once communication begins to erode, that's the beginning of the end of an A.

[NewLeaf512]

It's been just over three months of hard NC. After it ended we had just over a week where we talked about things which was a blessing and a curse. I was the person he called on Dday and as he was on his way home he intended to finish it but when it came to it he couldn't. He was always honest with me so I've no reason to doubt what he told me and he told me that I wasn't second place. It wasn't a competition, she was his only option he just didn't see that before. I guess the fog lifted that night he went home. He had to do it for himself for what it once was and what a terrible job he did of trying to get back what they once had. He has to, wants to, try and he will. He'll do everything to save it, to make it what it was and get back their happiness. I feel horrible even feeling bad for that. It's what he should always have been doing and I want him to be happy and that's where he wants to be happy. It took me 2 months to figure out what happened between us talking on his way home and him changing his mind and what he wanted is what changed and I have to find a way to come to terms with that. He also told me that he wished he'd met me first and that he's sorry he did this to me at a time when he couldn't give me what I deserved and that he has to try. He can live with whatever happens after that but he has to know that he tried, really 100% tried. And that's the thing that breaks my brain. He said it was like erosion. They just fell out of love and were room mates. They talked about it and she said she'd also felt like that for 7 years. They started therapy after that conversation to see if there was anything worth saving. At that point he'd obviously decided there wasnt but he wanted to go through it with her and he wanted to figure out what went wrong so that it did't happen again. And that's what I keep thinking about. What if it doesn't work? The thing with erosion is once something's gone it's gone, it doesn't come back. My head however knows that they're both good people who love each other and will do everything and everything to get back what they had and I'm almost sure theirs is going to be one of those stories about how the thing that could have destroyed them made them stronger than ever. But damn my stupid heart and it's insistence in ignoring what my head knows.

 

Apologies for the rambling but this is the first time I've written these thoughts down. It's somewhat cathartic.

 

 

 

 

I started seeing a therapist and within two sessions she declared me a peacenik which is essentially what you're describing. I've looked it up and it doesn't appear to be a recognised term but how she described it pretty much hit the nail on the head. Not so much a doormat but someone who will project how someone is likely to react emotionally to a situation and someone who after recognising that will change their own behaviour to positively control the other persons emotions. Happens with parents who have addiction issues or if you've been around abusive relationships apparently. I stopped therapy because I didnt feel like I was getting out of it what I wanted although I will go back to someone else when I feel more ready to talk about things but that really did stick with me and it's helped me recognise and change my own behaviour. Basically, it made to realise I'm doing that so I could see it for what it was, stop and feel ok about recognising, if not pushing, my own emotional needs in situations. Ironically xMM helped me enormously with this and always made me stop and think about what *I* wanted/needed out of a situation, grow a backbone and stand up for it. He made me better in a lot of ways. He says I did the same for him. One thing he said while he was leaving which is burned into my head is that he knows how selfish it is to even say it but thank you for saving me (him). "I know it's selfish to say that and then I'm gone but thank you."

 

Sorry, rambling again.

 

What have I done for myself today? I worked somewhere else so I didn't think about him and wrote all of this stuff down for the first time. Luckily I have my kids to keep me somewhat sane otherwise I could see how it could be very easy to get even more lost in the depths of this than I already am.

 

Hello Beautiful

 

What if they don't work out? It doesn't matter pickle because that's for them to deal with. We need to get you to feeling better. That's what we're on about. You healing and dealing with you, your feelings about you, ExMM, your A, how you move forward, your children, through to happy and strong again. Let's just start with today and this moment. Ok?

 

NL

[NewLeaf512]

Pickle = good English way of referring to a friend also sausage and muffin are used. Why those 3? No idea!

[ShatteredLady]

Oh my little sausage you got yourself into a bit of a pickle there! You see Miss Muffin I've never heard of pickle used as friend...more a state that a matey can get herself into.

 

Hahaha. Weirdest language in the world! Anyway....bet you're up the apples & pears avin a kip about now ;-)

[ShatteredLady]

I'm a people pleaser to a fault. It's something I've been trying to work on for a very long time. I met my H just after my 21 birthday & we moved in together that week! They now say that people's brains aren't fully formed until later 20's. I'm so aware that I 'nurtured' my H (& vice versa) you see I never used to be how I am in so very many ways.

 

My H hs always suffered from depression & he is incredibly passive aggressive. I've read the description you gave....

 

"Not so much a doormat but someone who will project how someone is likely to react emotionally to a situation and someone who after recognising that will change their own behaviour to positively control the other persons emotions."

 

....that describes me to a t. If you read-up on passive aggressive men it says that we're the only kind of women that will stay with a man with that type personality.

 

I've found more info about recognizing that about ourselves & healing as a side to passive aggressive when I've researched.....rather than just looking for Internet 'stuff' on our personality type.

 

Have you had a lot of experience of "walking on eggshells in your life"? I'm interested to hear other members answers on that too

[NewLeaf512]

I'm a people pleaser to a fault. It's something I've been trying to work on for a very long time. I met my H just after my 21 birthday & we moved in together that week! They now say that people's brains aren't fully formed until later 20's. I'm so aware that I 'nurtured' my H (& vice versa) you see I never used to be how I am in so very many ways.

 

My H hs always suffered from depression & he is incredibly passive aggressive. I've read the description you gave....

 

"Not so much a doormat but someone who will project how someone is likely to react emotionally to a situation and someone who after recognising that will change their own behaviour to positively control the other persons emotions."

 

....that describes me to a t. If you read-up on passive aggressive men it says that we're the only kind of women that will stay with a man with that type personality.

 

I've found more info about recognizing that about ourselves & healing as a side to passive aggressive when I've researched.....rather than just looking for Internet 'stuff' on our personality type.

 

Have you had a lot of experience of "walking on eggshells in your life"? I'm interested to hear other members answers on that too

 

Hi SL

 

I have and as it's quite a topic perhaps we can have another thread in either abuse or general to discuss. That way we won't intrude on Beautiful 's thread.

 

Beautiful, you mentioned your aim for Chrimbo cheer. What plans have you laid?

 

NL

[BeautifulIdiot]

Pickle = good English way of referring to a friend also sausage and muffin are used. Why those 3? No idea!

 

I'm from the same part of the world so understand the strange food references as terms of endearment. As I'm from north of the border so we'll also use some of the cruder terms such as tw@t as a term of endearment but I'll refrain from that here

 

As for Christmas I've got lots of friends and their kids coming to mine on xmas eve and the same group of us are going to my friends house for xmas dinner so we will be surrounded by friends and love and wonder and happiness. We have plans for Elves to deliver things on xmas eve and all sorts. We really are going all out this year which is what I think we all need, me as well as the kids. Xmas has never been a great time for me, my gran who I was very close to died xmas day, my great gran who I was also super close to died boxing day (the after xmas if that's not an international thing), I broke up with the kids dad over xmas (actually had him arrested new years eve but that's a story for another time) and there's just never been the wonder and magic of xmas so I want to change that this year and make it really special for the kids with new traditions we can keep doing year after year. They're still young (5 and 3) so it's the perfect time to really inject some magic into it for them.

 

I also found some flights to go home to my parents on the 28th until the 1st (i don't live in the country of muffins and sausages anymore) so that's really given me something to look forward to as well.