Some input is greatly appreciated!

[MellyMel]

The difficult part is going to be making this real to yourself: "he has everything he needs, to conjure up an image of someone with an envious career and lifestyle...he excels at that"

 

His false image is what allows him to feel good about himself. It's what allows him to get through the day. If you've got wild out of control 6 year old emotions, this constant bed time story is the only thing that keeps himself in a safe place where he can feel good about himself.

 

This is all that matters: "he has everything he needs, to conjure up an image of someone with an envious career and lifestyle...he excels at that"

 

Not you, not anything. His attitude toward anything other than that bedtime story to make him feel good is irrelevant, cold, distant, and detached.

 

 

 

He doesn't care.

 

"he has everything he needs, to conjure up an image of someone with an envious career and lifestyle...he excels at that"

 

He does need validation. They can cook up the bedtime story, but they need someone else to read it to them and believe it. He needs someone to help him believe the thing that makes him feel good about himself is actually true.

 

If you stopped being that person, he is not sad. He's angry in a 6 year old temper tantrum way. Mommy won't read me the bed time story that makes me feel safe.

 

It sounds like a joke. It's not.

 

 

 

"he has everything he needs, to conjure up an image of someone with an envious career and lifestyle...he excels at that"

 

If you're not going to worship and admire him for that, he has no use for you.

 

 

 

You don't get it. "he has everything he needs, to conjure up an image of someone with an envious career and lifestyle...he excels at that"

 

 

 

You don't get it. Nothings going to haunt him. He's never going to admit anything. "he has everything he needs, to conjure up an image of someone with an envious career and lifestyle...he excels at that"

 

That's what he takes refuge in, all he needs is someone to validate it. If you won't, he'll find someone who will. It's cold. It's not how we think.

 

 

 

I actually said that to her at some point. "Well, at least you can't blame me for your unhappiness now." This reaction doesn't completely miss the point but it's not on point either.

 

The blaming thing is only invoked when:

 

"he has everything he needs, to conjure up an image of someone with an envious career and lifestyle...he excels at that"

 

Either breaks down or doesn't get enough validation.

 

But ultimately blaming you was a diversion. If he can't do that, he will just shift to either fixing the thing he tells himself to feel good about himself, or finding someone else to validate it, depending on which of those was the problem.

 

The hardest part is realizing he doesn't care a shred about you because "he has everything he needs, to conjure up an image of someone with an envious career and lifestyle...he excels at that"

 

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you're actually dealing with narcissism, this is what you're dealing with. It is hard for a normal person to understand at first.

 

Once you know the narcissist's narrative, you know what explains and defines everything they do, because it's the only thing they really care about. It's the only thing that makes it possible for them to get through each day with 6 year old emotions. It's their bed time story that makes the feel safe and happy about themselves.

 

Edit: I don't mean to poke fun at you by quoting the one line over and over. A narcissist narrative is a critical thing to identify and this one line is the closest you've gotten so far. I've described my ex's narrative as at first we were the "perfect couple" and then later she was the "perfect mom". I use "perfect couple" and "perfect mom" in quotes over and over again in my own posts about myself. In your case I was re-using your own words, but could equally have said he had the "perfect career and lifestyle" over and over again. But, I just re-quoted your exact words, since that was how you put it. The more simple, somewhat true, easy to believe, and easy to get validation, attention and admiration for, the more useable these stories they tell themselves are to feel good about themselves. In the end it's hard to realize that this is all that's important to them.

 

If the person really is a narcissist, they may be sitting there alone and afraid. But they aren't thinking about that the way you would. They are trying to figure out how to get mommy to read them the story again or how to find another mommy that will. That's really all they care about. The story and the validation of that story. If the person is a narcissist, you mean nothing to them.

 

.

 

All of this. ALL of it is what I'm currently experiencing. The man I fell in love with and loved for 8 years is not what I thought he was. I feel like I'm hallucinating sometimes when I think about what has transpired.

 

I am a person of sound mind and judgement and I ignored red flags because I chose to see the good in him.

 

He acts (and he's very good at acting) like everything is fine, he's happy etc. etc. He'll probably find someone soon because he needs his daily validation from someone. He can't handle not having it. That's why he's been acting like a 15 year old on social media...posting daily selfies. Comical and pathetic. A man who went from posting 3 pictures of himself in 3 years has posted 5 selfies...SELFIES in less than 5 days.

 

You can pretend all you want but at some point you'll run out of people to blame for your bs. Maybe I'm hoping that's the case. People like him tend to survive alone because they only care about themselves.

[ProdigalMe]

I've read through your heartbreaking posts. I know exactly how you feel. My wife of 9 years told me last summer that she is done with me and wanted a divorce (ILYBINILWY).

 

I reacted the way you did. I was desperate, I pleaded, I begged, I hoped. To no avail. She had absolutely no feelings for me (not entirely her fault; I take half the blame).

 

She took her time (six months) looking for her own apartment. Those months were extremely painful for me. Living with someone who doesn't love you as much as you love them is nerve-wracking, to say the least. I know what you mean about losing your mind (my wife and I still went out to dinner, movies, traveled, etc.; gave me false hope and confused and anguished me).

 

She finally moved out just before the new year. There's been very little contact between us. As you know, separation is a daily struggle. Anger, sadness, loneliness, grief, anxiety, desperation. It's all there, crowding your mind, vying for attention. Sometimes the mind races, sometimes it's numb. I was like you, I lost my appetite and lost weight.

 

Your mind knows the logical thing to do: let go, accept reality, heal fast, embrace your future without him. Your heart resists. It wants what it wants (the warmth of married life; the husband who once loved you; that old, familiar vision of your future with him). Your mind pushes, your heart pulls, and you feel frozen with indecision.

 

I can't offer you much better advice than what you've been getting here. I can only offer you the small comfort that you do not suffer alone, and we understand you. Your neighbors (both virtual and real) suffer too, and understand your plight. The other small comfort is this: it's a cliche, but time cures everything. Today you are sad and the tears come easily. In some distant tomorrow (or maybe not so distant) there will be no tears, just a wistful, wry smile and maybe profound relief knowing that you survived it all and found happiness.

 

May you have strength and comfort on your journey. A belated happy new year to you.

[MellyMel]

I've read through your heartbreaking posts. I know exactly how you feel. My wife of 9 years told me last summer that she is done with me and wanted a divorce (ILYBINILWY).

 

I reacted the way you did. I was desperate, I pleaded, I begged, I hoped. To no avail. She had absolutely no feelings for me (not entirely her fault; I take half the blame).

 

She took her time (six months) looking for her own apartment. Those months were extremely painful for me. Living with someone who doesn't love you as much as you love them is nerve-wracking, to say the least. I know what you mean about losing your mind (my wife and I still went out to dinner, movies, traveled, etc.; gave me false hope and confused and anguished me).

 

She finally moved out just before the new year. There's been very little contact between us. As you know, separation is a daily struggle. Anger, sadness, loneliness, grief, anxiety, desperation. It's all there, crowding your mind, vying for attention. Sometimes the mind races, sometimes it's numb. I was like you, I lost my appetite and lost weight.

 

Your mind knows the logical thing to do: let go, accept reality, heal fast, embrace your future without him. Your heart resists. It wants what it wants (the warmth of married life; the husband who once loved you; that old, familiar vision of your future with him). Your mind pushes, your heart pulls, and you feel frozen with indecision.

 

I can't offer you much better advice than what you've been getting here. I can only offer you the small comfort that you do not suffer alone, and we understand you. Your neighbors (both virtual and real) suffer too, and understand your plight. The other small comfort is this: it's a cliche, but time cures everything. Today you are sad and the tears come easily. In some distant tomorrow (or maybe not so distant) there will be no tears, just a wistful, wry smile and maybe profound relief knowing that you survived it all and found happiness.

 

May you have strength and comfort on your journey. A belated happy new year to you.

 

 

Thank you so much! I really needed to read your post today. I'm sorry that you are going through a similar ordeal. We WILL get over this one day. As cliché as this is, every single thing thrown at us is a lesson. Sometimes we are prepared for it, other times we have no choice but to deal with it.

 

I was doing ok. I started a new job 3 weeks ago, started feeling good about myself, started embracing this new life only to find out that I was let go today (out of nowhere because of restructuring).

 

I'm more down about that currently than my marriage falling apart, but again....something great has to happen. It just has to.

[testmeasure]

How are things going? Has he got all his stuff out? It sounded like there was some foot dragging. How is the divorce going? Keep in mind the state views you guys as a single financial entity till you are divorced. (Arguably once the divorce process is started, you're already in court and can point out what was done after the court was engaged.) But in general any liabilities he takes on are half yours and any money you make is half his. If someone sued him for something, they could try to collect from you as well. It's not a great thing to be a single financial entity after the other person is gone, out of sight, and not necessarily operating with your best interest in mind. What company could stand the idea that a division broke away and went rouge, but the original company was responsible and accountable for the rouge division's actions.

 

Yes, the last thing we talked about was the beside yourself moments. That journey will take place on it's own path. In the mean time, if he's out and gone, there needs to be a practical unwinding. The mental and emotional real can be captivating and consuming. Don't neglect the practical. You really need to consult some local attorneys and choose one. They should be local so they know any differences in your county and are familiar with the judges in your county court. Divorce is a county level thing. If you're rural, consulting with a number of the local attorneys may prevent your ex from using them. I wasn't tactical like that. My ex burned through all the attorneys in the county and ended up with one from outside the county. Meanwhile I had just one in county attorney. That probably was one of the factors. My guy seemed to know what the judge was going to decide before he decided it. It's not as important since your case doesn't involve kids. Even without that, don't lose sight of the practical side.

 

I hope all's well, since the last post here was almost 2 weeks ago.

 

.

[MellyMel]

How are things going? Has he got all his stuff out? It sounded like there was some foot dragging. How is the divorce going? Keep in mind the state views you guys as a single financial entity till you are divorced. (Arguably once the divorce process is started, you're already in court and can point out what was done after the court was engaged.) But in general any liabilities he takes on are half yours and any money you make is half his. If someone sued him for something, they could try to collect from you as well. It's not a great thing to be a single financial entity after the other person is gone, out of sight, and not necessarily operating with your best interest in mind. What company could stand the idea that a division broke away and went rouge, but the original company was responsible and accountable for the rouge division's actions.

 

Yes, the last thing we talked about was the beside yourself moments. That journey will take place on it's own path. In the mean time, if he's out and gone, there needs to be a practical unwinding. The mental and emotional real can be captivating and consuming. Don't neglect the practical. You really need to consult some local attorneys and choose one. They should be local so they know any differences in your county and are familiar with the judges in your county court. Divorce is a county level thing. If you're rural, consulting with a number of the local attorneys may prevent your ex from using them. I wasn't tactical like that. My ex burned through all the attorneys in the county and ended up with one from outside the county. Meanwhile I had just one in county attorney. That probably was one of the factors. My guy seemed to know what the judge was going to decide before he decided it. It's not as important since your case doesn't involve kids. Even without that, don't lose sight of the practical side.

 

I hope all's well, since the last post here was almost 2 weeks ago.

 

.

 

Hi testmeasure. I'm ok. How are you?

 

I'm in Canada and we have to be legally separated for 12 months before filing for divorce. I wish we could speed it up.

 

He moved out 4 weeks ago and I found out last week through a mutual friend of ours that he's already on Tinder. Now, I'm not shocked. My shrink told me this would happen. My husband (I hate that I have to refer to him as my husband for the next 12 months) is someone who runs away from problems instead of dealing with them.

 

That being said, a part of me wasn't expecting him to put himself out there so far. Sure, he tapped out a long time ago as I did I, but I didn't think I'd lose respect for him.

 

He came by last week to get some paperwork that he left behind and asked me if I had been dating. I said that was none of his business. I asked him how Tinder was going (I couldn't help myself). He denied that he was on it at all. He said that he just had the app (LOL).

 

What upset me was the fact that he lied about it. We are not together anymore. Be accountable. Sure, I wasn't expecting you to be a piece of **** so soon, but at least stand by your actions. Don't lie. I now question if he's been faithful while w were together. Someone who has never cheated, doesn't jump at the chance to go on Tinder (and lies about it) 2-3 weeks after he's moved out.

 

I told him that I didn't want to wait 12 months to file for divorce. We can agree on an earlier date of separation. He's refusing to do that. Why? This is what you wanted. Why would you want to prolong this?

[whichwayisup]

My husband (I hate that I have to refer to him as my husband for the next 12 months) is someone who runs away from problems instead of dealing with them.

 

No, refer to him as "your soon to be EX husband".

 

Don't ask him any personal questions, it just feeds his ego.

[testmeasure]

My daughter and I are doing great. It's good to hear that he's out and things have gone to a very low amount of contact.

 

You refer to "legally separated". But then you also talk about being able to arbitrarily give an earlier separation date. Here I think you can actually file for separation, and that is referred to as "legally separated".

 

Are you sure you can't "file" for divorce right now? It might be that the divorce doesn't get granted before 12 months. If you really, truly can't even file for divorce for 12 months, it might be worth getting some formal paper work making the separation formal. If he's going to play games with the separation date, what's to stop him from claiming after he moved out you guys still tried to work on it and make it work for 6 months and only then separated?

 

I have no idea how it's done in Canada. But there's got to be something you can file that formally starts the clock running. That would probably also formally set the date everyone would go back to for looking at bank statements and pay stubs for determining what is joint property.

 

Here in the paper work we filed for divorce, it asked about the date of separation. We both put the actual date I was out of the house, even though a little bit of time past before she filed for divorce and we started doing the paperwork.

 

"He moved out 4 weeks ago" So, if you file for separation or divorce, there may be a line on the paperwork where you can put that date from 4 weeks ago. Then if he puts the same date, that gets everything going from that date.

 

Anyway, if you get everything going officially, it may also mitigate the level to which the state views you guys as a single financial entity for the next 12 months.

 

Be careful of mutual friends. Assume they pass information both ways.

 

Sorry to hear he's on tinder so fast. That's probably not healthy.

 

Lying may be his way of saying it's none of your business. It would have been better if he had said it the way you did to him. Sometimes people think saying none of your business implies yes. So, they lie instead of telling the other person directly that it's out side of what they have a right to ask or know. Just avoid having personal conversations with him.

 

That being said, there's a difference between him being on there and him dating. He may just be on there because he's thinking about it. If he finds it easy to do actual dating so quickly, I can see where the ease with which he does that might cause one to question whether he had done it before the separation as well.

 

If part of his decision in early December was based on thinking "the grass is greener" somewhere else, then I can see how he would be compelled to check that out as soon as it was moral, and not cheating to do so. Or he may even have checked out online dating while he was making that decision you were told about in December. If it played a role in the decision, it would explain why he's on there so fast.

 

There are a number of things you could react to here:

 

- How fast he got on there, but that's just an unhealthy mistake on his part if he goes to actual dating so soon. That's his problem.

 

- That he lied, but your personal stuff isn't really each other's business any more anyway.

 

- If it's easy for him to jump into dating and/or a relationship so fast, that might make one wonder if he had done so during the relationship. But this isn't really proof of something at a level worth dwelling on. It's more like it would raise an eyebrow, make you wonder, and be more open to recognize anything else that might indicate past cheating. Then move on and not worry about it till you do come across other things that indicate it.

 

- The thing you didn't mention is: His speed of getting on there even if he's only thinking about it and not actually dating, may indicate something about his motives for separation and divorce. Being on online dating so fast certainly would fit with there being a "the grass is greener someplace else" component to his decision in early December. If that was a part of the basis for his decision, he'd want to confirm it right away. He might need to confirm it as soon as possible to continue feeling good about the decision.

 

You felt a loss of respect for him on finding out he was on Tinder so fast. I think sensing what that could imply about his motives for separation and divorce fits with and explains the loss of respect better than any of the other things listed above. I don't think it makes sense to have that strong a reaction to him lying about something where in the very same conversation, you tell him the same topic about yourself is none of his business.

 

I agree, if "husband" bothers you, use STBX.

 

I used "wife" to refer to her through the entire divorce. I used that to emphasize to myself that I wasn't out of the situation yet. At that point, reminding myself I was still attached kept me on my toes.

 

After the divorce, I still referred to her as wife and had to consciously switch to ex. Once I had fully switched to ex, I realized that wasn't going to work. At a lot of my daughter's activities, I meet and talk to other moms. When we would talk about the kids, I'd find myself saying things like: "My ex said not to feed our daughter that kind of thing." Particularly if I was asking for a 2nd opinion, it just didn't sound right. So I switched again. I don't want to use our daughter's name so I'll use Jane, as in Jane Doe. Anyway, the other moms know my daughter's name, so now I say: "Jane's mom says X."

 

The way you label something can change how you think about it.

 

Anyway, my recommendation is to talk to a lawyer and find out the process as soon as possible. The legal process from when you first file to when the divorce is granted can take months and months. Hopefully you can file now, and that process can go on during the twelve months, but the divorce can't be granted or finalized till the end of the twelve months. If you can't even file till the twelve months are done, then the whole thing could take much longer. If the two of you can agree on a settlement, that might make it faster. But if he makes you go through the legal process for everything, it can take months, maybe a 2nd year.

 

I wasn't aware of the following during my divorce and it wasn't a factor in my divorce, so I don't have any personal experience with what I'm about to say. I have seen others on here say that if you are the one who files for the divorce, that gives you more control over it. Apparently there are a number of thing throughout the divorce that require action from the person who filed for the divorce. It they don't take the action, the divorce stalls and there is very little the person who didn't file first can do to make things move forward. So if you think he's going to be foot dragging, you ought to get in to see a lawyer as soon as you can and ask some about how all this works up there.

 

.

[MellyMel]

No, refer to him as "your soon to be EX husband".

 

Don't ask him any personal questions, it just feeds his ego.

 

You're 100% right. It does. I'm still coping with everything and learning how to distance myself.

[MellyMel]

My daughter and I are doing great. It's good to hear that he's out and things have gone to a very low amount of contact.

 

You refer to "legally separated". But then you also talk about being able to arbitrarily give an earlier separation date. Here I think you can actually file for separation, and that is referred to as "legally separated".

 

Are you sure you can't "file" for divorce right now? It might be that the divorce doesn't get granted before 12 months. If you really, truly can't even file for divorce for 12 months, it might be worth getting some formal paper work making the separation formal. If he's going to play games with the separation date, what's to stop him from claiming after he moved out you guys still tried to work on it and make it work for 6 months and only then separated?

 

I have no idea how it's done in Canada. But there's got to be something you can file that formally starts the clock running. That would probably also formally set the date everyone would go back to for looking at bank statements and pay stubs for determining what is joint property.

 

Here in the paper work we filed for divorce, it asked about the date of separation. We both put the actual date I was out of the house, even though a little bit of time past before she filed for divorce and we started doing the paperwork.

 

"He moved out 4 weeks ago" So, if you file for separation or divorce, there may be a line on the paperwork where you can put that date from 4 weeks ago. Then if he puts the same date, that gets everything going from that date.

 

Anyway, if you get everything going officially, it may also mitigate the level to which the state views you guys as a single financial entity for the next 12 months.

 

Be careful of mutual friends. Assume they pass information both ways.

 

Sorry to hear he's on tinder so fast. That's probably not healthy.

 

Lying may be his way of saying it's none of your business. It would have been better if he had said it the way you did to him. Sometimes people think saying none of your business implies yes. So, they lie instead of telling the other person directly that it's out side of what they have a right to ask or know. Just avoid having personal conversations with him.

 

That being said, there's a difference between him being on there and him dating. He may just be on there because he's thinking about it. If he finds it easy to do actual dating so quickly, I can see where the ease with which he does that might cause one to question whether he had done it before the separation as well.

 

If part of his decision in early December was based on thinking "the grass is greener" somewhere else, then I can see how he would be compelled to check that out as soon as it was moral, and not cheating to do so. Or he may even have checked out online dating while he was making that decision you were told about in December. If it played a role in the decision, it would explain why he's on there so fast.

 

There are a number of things you could react to here:

 

- How fast he got on there, but that's just an unhealthy mistake on his part if he goes to actual dating so soon. That's his problem.

 

- That he lied, but your personal stuff isn't really each other's business any more anyway.

 

- If it's easy for him to jump into dating and/or a relationship so fast, that might make one wonder if he had done so during the relationship. But this isn't really proof of something at a level worth dwelling on. It's more like it would raise an eyebrow, make you wonder, and be more open to recognize anything else that might indicate past cheating. Then move on and not worry about it till you do come across other things that indicate it.

 

- The thing you didn't mention is: His speed of getting on there even if he's only thinking about it and not actually dating, may indicate something about his motives for separation and divorce. Being on online dating so fast certainly would fit with there being a "the grass is greener someplace else" component to his decision in early December. If that was a part of the basis for his decision, he'd want to confirm it right away. He might need to confirm it as soon as possible to continue feeling good about the decision.

 

You felt a loss of respect for him on finding out he was on Tinder so fast. I think sensing what that could imply about his motives for separation and divorce fits with and explains the loss of respect better than any of the other things listed above. I don't think it makes sense to have that strong a reaction to him lying about something where in the very same conversation, you tell him the same topic about yourself is none of his business.

 

I agree, if "husband" bothers you, use STBX.

 

I used "wife" to refer to her through the entire divorce. I used that to emphasize to myself that I wasn't out of the situation yet. At that point, reminding myself I was still attached kept me on my toes.

 

After the divorce, I still referred to her as wife and had to consciously switch to ex. Once I had fully switched to ex, I realized that wasn't going to work. At a lot of my daughter's activities, I meet and talk to other moms. When we would talk about the kids, I'd find myself saying things like: "My ex said not to feed our daughter that kind of thing." Particularly if I was asking for a 2nd opinion, it just didn't sound right. So I switched again. I don't want to use our daughter's name so I'll use Jane, as in Jane Doe. Anyway, the other moms know my daughter's name, so now I say: "Jane's mom says X."

 

The way you label something can change how you think about it.

 

Anyway, my recommendation is to talk to a lawyer and find out the process as soon as possible. The legal process from when you first file to when the divorce is granted can take months and months. Hopefully you can file now, and that process can go on during the twelve months, but the divorce can't be granted or finalized till the end of the twelve months. If you can't even file till the twelve months are done, then the whole thing could take much longer. If the two of you can agree on a settlement, that might make it faster. But if he makes you go through the legal process for everything, it can take months, maybe a 2nd year.

 

I wasn't aware of the following during my divorce and it wasn't a factor in my divorce, so I don't have any personal experience with what I'm about to say. I have seen others on here say that if you are the one who files for the divorce, that gives you more control over it. Apparently there are a number of thing throughout the divorce that require action from the person who filed for the divorce. It they don't take the action, the divorce stalls and there is very little the person who didn't file first can do to make things move forward. So if you think he's going to be foot dragging, you ought to get in to see a lawyer as soon as you can and ask some about how all this works up there.

 

.

 

Glad to hear that you and your daughter are doing well.

 

 

No, I can't file. We have to be legally separated for 12 months (unless I can prove that physical abuse, fraud, or adultery occurred. I can draft a separation agreement now, but we still have to wait 12 months to file for divorce. '

 

I was going to do it (or get a lawyer to do it) but why should I? He wanted this. He should be responsible for dealing with all this bs. I've always taken care of everything. He depended on me. I'm not doing it. I'm meeting with a lawyer to discuss my options and will present her with a rough draft of the separation agreement in case this ******* doesn't do anything in the coming months.

 

But if we can wait, I can wait. He expects me to get on top of everything. Not gonna happen this time. He won't lie about the actual date of separation because I had him confirm (he didn't know that it was for legal reasons) in an email the date when when he moved out.

 

As I mentioned, my therapist told me that he would be on Tinder (or some other dating app/website) soon because he is unable to deal with reality. Unable to deal with his own issues. This wasn't a surprise, but it's disappointing nonetheless. Lying about it makes me question EVERYTHING. Had you asked me two months ago if he ever cheated on me. I would've said no without a doubt. Now I don't know. He had no reason to lie to me, we are not together. But he stood in my house and lied ...tried to back-pedal.