Do You See What I See?

November 28, 2015

Just remember, until she can discuss this without blaming YOU, there is no marriage to save. And tell her parents that.

November 28, 2015

Hero,

Hi ! Im from Japan been reading this thread from the start until now.

You said your wife is very attractive. Remember, beauty fades away.

It is the beauty of the heart of a person that you should look for.

You said she chose you. I think maybe because you are the only one who took her seriously.

That is why she calls you The Fool. Her text messages to you reveals that she really treats you like A Fool.

But dont allow anyone to treat you like A Fool. Value yourself more than that. You can find a woman who will respect you and love you.

Nice thread Im learning from here.

From Japan,

NipponGirl

November 28, 2015

Major setback guys

Just got off the phone with MIL
******STBXW has agreed to turn in her resignation and get some professional help
Her parents say part of this is their fault

They were very strict with her as a child then when she went to college
she went on a major rebellious streak and become this self-absorbed person
I can't see how that's their fault

begged me not to make any life changing decisions right now
told her I would think about it

I was feeling strong and confident earlier,
now I just have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach
feels like I took 3 steps forward and got knocked 5 steps back
I just don't what to think right now

Might look at getting myself into my own IC
Me and my brother are going to spend some time together this evening
That might help

I really just want to curl up the sofa right now, let HERO lick my face
and drink some more Tequila.... man this is hard

thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it

Did you stipulate to your in-laws or your wife that this is what you wanted and that you would consider reconciliation if she did these things? If wife quits her job now it will cost you more in spousal maintenance should you go the divorce route. I just wouldn't recommend any swift changes at the moment on either end other than living arrangements. I would also tell your wife that she needs to contribute to her support during this time. IF divorce is filed, she may go for temporary spousal maintenance and this is where you'll pay more if she quits. You can tell the judge she quit but if wife says you told her to, that may count against you.

Please slow down the pace a bit Hero...for you physical and emotional well-being. Inertia from the whole situation caused you to feel that high and now the reality of the situation is settling in. It's a good time to get into IC as you indicated. You might feel some symptoms of PTSD and good to get a handle on. It's a sad time and I'm really sorry. I worry about when your brother leaves and you're without close support. My pups were such great support for me so at least you'll have Hero. Please continue to come to this forum ok? Hugs.

PS...A strict childhood doesn't cause cheating later on in life. Many are self-absorbed in their early 20s ... it's a time of tremendous soul searching and growth. This doesn't lead to cheating 20 yrs later either. I never cheated and I was a product of both of the above. It's just that my vows and family/kids were number 1 and not me.

November 28, 2015

You said she chose you. I think maybe because you are the only one who took her seriously.

That is why she calls you The Fool. Her text messages to you reveals that she really treats you like A Fool.

Interesting point!

November 28, 2015

Hero

Your wife's mother and father know you are good for your wife and a good man. They want to try and take some of the blame off her so you will not divorce her.

Get the divorce and then she will have many years to prove to you that she loves only you and will do anything to get you back.

November 28, 2015

Major setback guys

Just got off the phone with MIL
STBXW has agreed to turn in her resignation and get some professional help
Her parents say part of this is their fault

They were very strict with her as a child then when she went to college
she went on a major rebellious streak and become this self-absorbed person
I can't see how that's their fault

begged me not to make any life changing decisions right now
told her I would think about it

I was feeling strong and confident earlier,
now I just have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach
feels like I took 3 steps forward and got knocked 5 steps back
I just don't what to think right now

Might look at getting myself into my own IC
Me and my brother are going to spend some time together this evening
That might help

I really just want to curl up the sofa right now, let HERO lick my face
and drink some more Tequila.... man this is hard

thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it

Hero. Your in laws might be nice people but what you got is a proxy call. They called you in lieu of their daughter. They know you wont talk to her but you'll talk to them. My advice is don't answer their calls because after a while the calls will all be the same. Their fighting for their daughters interest and it's natural. Not to mention that it will play on your mind big time.

As far as her thinking about quitting her job, I think it's to make you think that her without a job means your going to pay more. Through a third party I would let her know that if she quits then sh better find something PDQ.

If she's getting professional help, well she needs it. That's her problem along with her infidelity so let her deal with it.

Please stop with the phone calls from her parents. Every call to you just makes it harder for you to get yourself squared away. They don't give a damn about how you feel or they wouldn't be calling you adding more to your plate. Their primary interest is their daughter, your just a in law.

November 28, 2015

Man, sorry it was rough without your mother...on top of the infidelity and your wife being critical of you. My apologies if I misunderstood about your son...I thought he was trying to defend her and speaking to her in private behind your back. Your sister handled it very well. I meant no disrespect to you.

How are you doing?

G

November 28, 2015

I just read most of the thread , but fast forwarded some of it. Sorry you are going through all this.

Maybe I missed it, but who told you that they had a big fight in the hotel room (lots of yelling) towards the end of their weekend away????

How did you find this out?

November 28, 2015

Has she even asked what you might need AT ALL?

Or how you were feeling about any of this?

she asked me once by text message what could she do to fix this

and no, she never asked about my feelings

November 28, 2015

Hero,

Hi ! Im from Japan been reading this thread from the start until now.
You said your wife is very attractive. Remember, beauty fades away.
It is the beauty of the heart of a person that you should look for.
You said she chose you. I think maybe because you are the only one who took her seriously.

That is why she calls you The Fool. Her text messages to you reveals that she really treats you like A Fool.

But dont allow anyone to treat you like A Fool. Value yourself more than that. You can find a woman who will respect you and love you.

Nice thread Im learning from here.

From Japan,
NipponGirl

Thank you, that's very kind of you

November 28, 2015

Did you stipulate to your in-laws or your wife that this is what you wanted and that you would consider reconciliation if she did these things? If wife quits her job now it will cost you more in spousal maintenance should you go the divorce route. I just wouldn't recommend any swift changes at the moment on either end other than living arrangements. I would also tell your wife that she needs to contribute to her support during this time. IF divorce is filed, she may go for temporary spousal maintenance and this is where you'll pay more if she quits. You can tell the judge she quit but if wife says you told her to, that may count against you.

Please slow down the pace a bit Hero...for you physical and emotional well-being. Inertia from the whole situation caused you to feel that high and now the reality of the situation is settling in. It's a good time to get into IC as you indicated. You might feel some symptoms of PTSD and good to get a handle on. It's a sad time and I'm really sorry. I worry about when your brother leaves and you're without close support. My pups were such great support for me so at least you'll have Hero. Please continue to come to this forum ok? Hugs.

PS...A strict childhood doesn't cause cheating later on in life. Many are self-absorbed in their early 20s ... it's a time of tremendous soul searching and growth. This doesn't lead to cheating 20 yrs later either. I never cheated and I was a product of both of the above. It's just that my vows and family/kids were number 1 and not me.

I haven't said anything to anyone about R

I told her parents I would think about it (IT meaning everything they said)

Thanks for the advice

November 28, 2015

Man, sorry it was rough without your mother...on top of the infidelity and your wife being critical of you. My apologies if I misunderstood about your son...I thought he was trying to defend her and speaking to her in private behind your back. Your sister handled it very well. I meant no disrespect to you.
How are you doing?
G

no harm, no foul

I'm doing about as well as can be expected

I have my brother and my dog here, I think I'll be okay

November 28, 2015

I just read most of the thread , but fast forwarded some of it. Sorry you are going through all this.
Maybe I missed it, but who told you that they had a big fight in the hotel room (lots of yelling) towards the end of their weekend away????
How did you find this out?

nobody told me

I read a series of text messages between them

they were both blaming each other for arguing too loud in the hallway outside

of one of the rooms. I couldn't tell if it was his room or hers

at one point my wife sent him a text and told him he didn't have to grab her wrist

he replied back that he was trying to calm her down

she replied back that if it hadn't been for (names of two co-workers)

she would have slapped him silly, then she messaged him with this

"don't ever put your hands on me again, I'm not your property"

thus, I quickly deduced, loud argument in a hallway,

two co-workers step in and separate them.

I wasn't there, that's just my best guess what went down

according to the messages I read, I can't say for sure exactly what

happened, but it's pretty clear there was an argument and others were involved

this happened shortly after the pictures and videos disappeared from his FB page

towards the end of their company getaway

thanks for the support

November 28, 2015

had a great time with my brother tonight everyone

but at one point I got a little down when I realized that I couldn't share

this special moment with you know who...

that's right, I missed my dog

time to take Hero for a walk, goodnight all

November 28, 2015

had a great time with my brother tonight everyone
but at one point I got a little down when I realized that I couldn't share
this special moment with you know who...

that's right, I missed my dog

time to take Hero for a walk, goodnight all

Hang in there OP.

None of us here know sh-t about your 10 year marriage, that is what you have. So when people in here start talking about her not working for 10 years, living off you, calling you a fool for it, they are just being like always in LS: Lets all join in and flog the half dead monster while its down. Let's all just demonize her a little (or a lot) more now that we have something on her.

Again I do not know your wife for SH-T.

It should occur to anyone here who has experience, real experience with infidelity, that she didn't think of you, or start calling you "fool" until she was inside her affair. In her bubbled world, where she is doing stupid things but cannot, and worse, WILL NOT stop herself.

If a husband has agreed to work at home (or in a company) and doesn't ask his spouse to work, and in fact gains from the enjoyment of having his wife around during 10 years this is HIS BUSINESS. No one here has the right, as awful as your wife has been in her affair, to take whatever agreement and quality of life you two had and SH-T on IT just because she is a broken doll.

No one.

You were married to her, you know what she was like before she cheated. You know how she behaved when she was inside an affair. It's not important the blaming, the excuses, the rationalisations. Those things sort themselves out when the wayward spouse finally recognises the full depth of their capacity to do what they have done to their marriage and another person who has been loving them unconditionally for 10 years. I know this because my wife did the this to us for over a much longer period, but without the ridiculing and demeaning of myself with her AP. Actually it was the reverse, he could see that our marriage was fine, just fine, and that everyone knew me to be a good person, not a fool. But what people say to protect themselves from stopping themselves from doing what they know is wrong, is going to end very badly, seems limitless. People do sh-tty things when their mind is saying one thing and their emotions are saying another. All we know is that during an affair, the new emotions win. Hence the infidelity.

It took more than 6 months for my WW to get to the point where she could see how she was trying to blame me and our marriage and all things external she could find to explain why she had an affair. It took her another 8 months to properly examine herself, her emotional situation, her inability to stop crossing the line, her capacity for self-deception, enormous blocking of nearly 20 years of marriage.

I do not think that any of us that do not work in the area of infidelity will ever be fully capable of grasping, thinking through, and accepting the notion that people can sometimes fall into a psychological state in which they remain in a marriage but do everything they can to destroy it, all the while continue to claim they never wanted to leave it, lose it, or hurt the other person. The idea that someone can build a virtual bubble around their consciousness in order to operate inside an affair is just too difficult to grasp. Here they call it compartmentalisation. Others have other names for it. But in LS we name things, and then a dozen people come in a claim it all a bunch of BS. We are left with an impoverished idea of the complexity and understanding of infidelity because it turns out that those who need to understand it the most, but are in the worst possible mode to do so, is the betrayed spouse.

I say these things because these are what I have learned processing my wife's enormously painful, self destructive and harmful actions on our marriage and on me. You are only at the very beginning of this mess, and it's amazing that more BS's do not draw your attention to it. You aren't even halfway through discovery.

My marriage can definately survive my WW's infidelity. And as I have said elsewhere, what remains to be seen is if this new me will stay. I repeat, none of us know sh-t about your wife. Anyone here who is a reasonable person will know she probably did not think you were "a fool" until she met a man whose interactions created this concept. And you probably already know deep down if this is her first and only infidelity, and that supositions of how many "rodeos" she has been through is just more typical flogging a broken down animal while you have the luxury to do so.

Good luck with your choices. Whatever they are, if they feel right for you, will be your path to happiness. This we all know regardless of what they are.

Edited November 28, 2015 by fellini

November 28, 2015

My parents were strict.... really strict... but it didn't turn me into a cheat..... it made me have morals and values...and even now mid 40's, married with kids ....if I think of doing certain things... I remind myself how disappointed my parents would be if they knew. I couldn't bring that shame of having an affair onto my family... if I feel like that .......then I get out of the marriage.... but I ALWAYS think of the consequences of my actions. Your wife just felt entitled to the affair.

my choices in life. It's typical protective mother behaviour to try and jump in here.

The professional help will now cost you as she's quit her job and your MIL will go back and tell her you're thinking about it.

BTW...... Your sister had her sussed out years ago.... she was right on the money too. You should listen to your sister a bit more. ☺

November 28, 2015

My parents were strict.... really strict... but it didn't turn me into a cheat..... it made me have morals and values...and even now mid 40's, married with kids ....if I think of doing certain things... I remind myself how disappointed my parents would be if they knew. I couldn't bring that shame of having an affair onto my family... if I feel like that .......then I get out of the marriage.... but I ALWAYS think of the consequences of my actions. Your wife just felt entitled to the affair.

my choices in life. It's typical protective mother behaviour to try and jump in here.

The professional help will now cost you as she's quit her job and your MIL will go back and tell her you're thinking about it.

BTW...... Your sister had her sussed out years ago.... she was right on the money too. You should listen to your sister a bit more. ☺

Some of the strictist most moralistic people in the world cheat. Just ask anyone in the Christian fundamentalist community if their absolute faith prevents infidelity from happening.

Some of the most well brought up and intelligent and kind and altruistic people in the world have affairs. Just read about Stephen Hawking.

Nothing that we do in our upbringing is an absolute guarantee as a defense to cheat. Not cheating is a decision made each and every moment that someone is tempted by it.

My WW's sisters never wanted her to marry me. They showed it for 18 years antagonising and treating me badly waiting for me to show my true colours. It was their sister who cheated. And even then, they saw her as the victim, and tried to get her to leave the marriage. So, in spite of them being sisters, it was a good idea "she didn't listen to her sisters more often". They all got it backwards. There is no evidence that OP's sister had anything than the common adversity to her brother's choice in marriage. He had 10 good years with her, and then she broke. Had she not taken on a job he might have had 10 more. Or not. Some people marry only to find out that their perfect partner was cheating on them right after the honeymoon.

His sister was speculating. That this woman actually choose to be unfaithful 10 years later is just a coincidence. I'm sure my SILs are going to wait for another 10 years and on our 30th anniversary if we split, say to my wife... "See, we told you, it wouldn't last."

Edited November 28, 2015 by fellini

November 28, 2015

No history of BPD in her family as far as I know

Hi Hero.

I am not suggesting reconciling with your wife, but if you choose to do so it is your choice. Forgiveness is one thing, but reconciling another after her disrespect and no remorse. When I was cheated on (he got another woman pregnant) there was nothing that could be done to fix that.

You love her though, and at the very least convince her to see a doctor for a diagnoses. From what you describe it sounds like she has BPD. I'm not qualified to diagnose, but am observing from experience. There does not have to be a history of BPD in her family for her to have it. It can be brought on by a traumatic experience (PTSD). With medication and a lot of therapy a person can live a fairly normal life. I have recovered almost fully through therapy and a book called The Angry Heart (recovering from BPD). It is very helpful an has journaling exercises.

I also want to add, sorry you are in pain missing your mom. Holidays can be very hard without your loved ones.

Take care.

Edited November 28, 2015 by SweetiePi

November 28, 2015

Hero,

Right now, you are less than a week into this mess, and you trying to digest all the crap that fate has thrown your way. Unfortunately, it appears that since there are not a lot of new revelations, that the advice now has evolved into the usual "divorce" or "reconcile" camps. Each of us here has had our own personal experience so what we did means NOTHING. You are the only one that can decide what YOU do.

All of the diagnosis by non medically qualified people of mental illness that your wife supposedly has is useless. And if you decide to divorce her meaningless.

There is NOTHING here that has occurred that is really out of the ordinary

(1) your wife entered into a sexual relationship with another man

(2) she had no intention of confessing

(3) it was obvious the employees at the gym at this get away knew they were getting it on because they made no attempt to be covert

(4) as usual, you caught them through an electronic mistake on bozos part on facebook

(5) your wife had no remorse, only regret she got caught, and thought she could bully you into just accepting it happened and come right home. The excuses and attitude are boilerplate behavior

BUT GUESS WHAT- you served her with divorce papers

(6) then her attitude changed on a dime

(7) her parents acted as her spokesman

(8) all of a sudden she wants to "fix" this but has done NOTHING on her own to show that

(9) reality has set in for her. The party is over.

THERE IS NOTHING THERE THAT IS UNUSUAL OR UNIQUE

Her nicknaming you is just part of the demonizing to make her actions OK to herself and justified while she is doing it.

Now once your family leaves you will have to go through the roller coaster that everyone does. it was shortcircuited a little bit by your family arriving for the holidays. your emotions will be all over the place.

So far, i THINK you said she has offered to quit the job, but that is not the sole answer here since OM is obviously SINGLE, geographically in close proximity, and whatever argument they had it certainly did not stop him from again trying to hook up with her since you stated he contacted her to hook up again last night. Do not assume her disgust and anger with him, probably for getting her caught, will not subside. She probably has been emotionally as well as physically ( most women are emotionally involved) for some time now.

So your real dicision is ARE YOU PREPARED TO DEAL WITH THIS FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD of time, which the healing period would be. ARE YOU PREPARED to tell her what boundaries and expectations you need that are non negotiable.

There is no quick fix here so i suggest you decide what YOU need, IF you think and believe she can or will do it, and take your time.

Right now, i would also not do the usual stampede into therapy until you are SURE this affair is over and can verify it after some time. If you do IC for her, i would also recommend you insist on her signing a waiver so her therapist can talk to you so you know she is not lying to you about what the advice is or what she is telling the therapist.

And if you go that route, INTERVIEW them carefully. it is not an exact science, and all of them have different thoughts on infidelity. Don't think you just want to hear ' get over it, and figure out what YOU did to cause her to cheat"".

Strength to you. You have done as much as possible so far to help yourself.

November 28, 2015

she asked me once by text message what could she do to fix this

and no, she never asked about my feelings

She never cared about you or your feelings during her affair. Blatantly obvious.

She doesn't care now from her comments. It's all bout her.

I'd move on from this. There are way better out there.

November 28, 2015

and no, she never asked about my feelings

You mentioned earlier that your STBXW "agreed to quit her job" and go to counseling, but I don't remember you ever asking her to, so that seems like someone else's arbitrary requirement. Here's why it won't matter.

She's a fitness freak, that's not going away. So whether she works in a gym or goes to a gym, even a different one, the temptation is still there. It might not be the AP, but gyms glorify and look up to well built women. I used to work in them myself, and I promise you even the corporate gyms are a hotbed of cheating. Between employees or just members. The trainers, male and female, work closely and are very helpful /encouraging with people that are otherwise insecure about weight, or build, or anything really. They're getting paid, but clients are quick to forget that when every time they see them they get a compliment or a hug, especially when they're young and built.

A well built *women* is watched for the minute she hits the free weights or machines to the min she walks in locker room. I've seen a girl get a dozen roses delivered to a lat machine!

The problem is not the gym, job, or AP. The problem is her. I'm with Oldshirt, this isn't her first rodeo she was just drunk on attention from him this time.

I'm so sorry. I have a lot of experience with these environments and when you get the ability to PM feel free to do so.

In the meantime, realize she is still only doing things for herself, not you, and even if she pulled off the most elaborate Italian Job here on you she'd backpedal in a year or so when the external gym worship she used to get has faded away and there is only "The Fool" left to feed her ego.

You will never be enough for a NPD. They are like bottomless pits. Don't lose yourself in her neurotic need to be noticed... by everyone.

November 28, 2015

All of the diagnosis by non medically qualified people of mental illness that your wife supposedly has is useless.

No one here said they are medically qualified to diagnose, but there are people here who recognise the signs through life experience. It is not useless. It is right to point even people who have done horrible things towards a doctor to receive a proper diagnosis (if any) and some therapy. Whether there is divorce or reconciliation, the right thing to do is get the WS some help because she needs it.

November 28, 2015

I agree with much of what Friskyone4u wrote above.

Personally, from what you related, I don't see why anyone would want to endure the time, effort, and energy necessary to try and salvage this marriage. But that's my default position: I don't see why anyone would bear this burden for anyone. I've never known a woman in my life that would be worth it.

But I don't understand the added significance of their pet name for you. Everything she did was dreadful. Their pet name for you hurts, but in fact they were wrong about you. They are the fools for believing that they could continue their relationship without consequences.

What else do you think they would call you? It's not like they are operating from a place of deep respect and value for you. People do and say strange things in these situations. In law school, a classmate was enjoying an affair with another classmate.. Her husband caught them in the act (they got sloppy), was predictably furious, and demanded that the guy get off his wife and out of their bed. During this drama, he had put his hands on boyfriend, who felt deeply "disrespected" by that, and defended himself. The result the husband got was a quick, one sided beat down by a naked guy. Well that's how the story was told, but I believe it.

I raise that to illustrate the absurdity of the situation the illicit couple are in. Somehow making love in her marital bed wasn't disrespectful, but an enraged hubby's reaction was disrespectful. The guy was just very self absorbed and the meanings of any words used were filtered through his warped mind.

So place no undue weight in their language. Their behavior on the merits is more than enough. If they called you "the professor," would it have mattered?

This isn't a defense, it's just a suggestion to not fixate any undue significance to their nickname.

November 28, 2015

Some of the strictist most moralistic people in the world cheat. ."

If they were that 'moralistic' they WOULDN'T cheat. To do so is blatant hypocrisy....plain and simple. Anything less is pretence.. quote all the people you wish..They are nothing but hypocrites.

So as not to t / j I'll PM you on the rest of your post.

learly has problems.

November 28, 2015

Hi Hero.

I am not suggesting reconciling with your wife, but if you choose to do so it is your choice. Forgiveness is one thing, but reconciling another after her disrespect and no remorse. When I was cheated on (he got another woman pregnant) there was nothing that could be done to fix that.

You love her though, and at the very least convince her to see a doctor for a diagnoses. From what you describe it sounds like she has BPD. I'm not qualified to diagnose, but am observing from experience. There does not have to be a history of BPD in her family for her to have it. It can be brought on by a traumatic experience (PTSD). With medication and a lot of therapy a person can live a fairly normal life. I have recovered almost fully through therapy and a book called The Angry Heart (recovering from BPD). It is very helpful an has journaling exercises.

I also want to add, sorry you are in pain missing your mom. Holidays can be very hard without your loved ones.

Take care.

Honestly, I was diagnosed with BPD in my early 20s and did A LOT of work to get better.

In fact, I still do follow-up with a counselor as a sort of maintenance. I am not sure how necessary it is anymore, but if biweekly sessions reduce the risk, I'm all over it.

I don't see "BPD" here.

There would be FAR MORE fear of being abandoned, self-harm, self-deprication, a lot of BPD people have rage (I wasn't ragey, more depressed / suicidal), more than one form of addiction / impulse control issue. And that's just off of the top of my head.

Seems there's entitlement here. Boatloads. And an overall lack of empathy. But really I don't see BPD.

Sign In

Do You See What I See?

Recommended Posts

turnera

NipponGirl

StBreton

troubadour

Mr Blunt

bubbaganoosh

Grumpybutfun

MuffMan6969

Hero

Hero

Hero

Hero

Hero

Hero

fellini

sandylee1

fellini

SweetiePi

Friskyone4u

Marc878

EverySunset

SweetiePi

Mr Mind of Shazam

sandylee1

dreamingoftigers

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...