Do You See What I See?

[StBreton]

Hero

 

When your wife said she did this to "get you're attention" I'm just curious why she looked so stunned when you came to the grill that day at lunch. If she wanted to get you're attention she would have invited you to lunch and been at the bar and had the other guy sitting having a drink with her. Also ...she could have invited you to the work function and flirted with the other guy in your presence. She didn't do any of this. Will her words of calling you a "fool" and in league with some guy who also calls you a fool be forever be burned in your brain? I'm thinking there's too much water under the bridge. She's gone beyond an affair to cruelty. Reading your posts here I just feel you are too good hearted to be with someone so mean spirited and clueless and deceitful.

 

Hero a german shepherd ... Wow:)

[Marc878]

The rainbows and fluffy bunny rabbits are being replaced with reality, the reality of watching her family disappear, this was never supposed to happen. You were never to find out, that's what O/M told her because they would be careful and you were never supposed to be smart enough to figure it out or see his Facebook page. They are always careless, that's how we usually find out the fools. I raised my son for a year before I was smart enough to have a DNA test done, that's when I stopped being a fool. Your not alone my friend, we all know what your going through. Stay strong and demand the respect your due, settle for nothing less.

 

You forgot the unicorns????

[Marc878]

Hero

 

When your wife said she did this to "get you're attention" I'm just curious why she looked so stunned when you came to the grill that day at lunch. If she wanted to get you're attention she would have invited you to lunch and been at the bar and had the other guy sitting having a drink with her. Also ...she could have invited you to the work function and flirted with the other guy in your presence. She didn't do any of this. Will her words of calling you a "fool" and in league with some guy who also calls you a fool be forever be burned in your brain? I'm thinking there's too much water under the bridge. She's gone beyond an affair to cruelty. Reading your posts here I just feel you are too good hearted to be with someone so mean spirited and clueless and deceitful.

 

Hero a german shepherd ... Wow:)

 

Wow, excellent insight. CRUELTY is a perfect description

[turnera]

Ha! Ha!

She knows your soft spot......

Yep. She got exiled, so she spent the whole holiday thinking about how screwed up HER life is now. So she focused on what would get your attention.

 

Here's what I would tell you. Tell your wife that you are willing to sit back and WATCH her - for the next YEAR. Apart. In separate homes. And to see if she can handle living apart from you for a whole year WITHOUT seeking out other men. Tell her flat out it's a test. You're in no hurry to do anything, but you have NO intention of letting her come back to you without giving you concrete proof that she has seen the truth - that this is ALL ON HER and she has a hell of a lot to make up to you.

 

So you're giving her an opportunity to do just that - make it up to you. From separate homes, using her own money to support herself, seeing NO OTHER MEN, for a full year. And if she cannot handle that, then you have your answer. And you will file for divorce at the end of 2016, or whenever she breaks down and starts sexing herself up for some other man, whichever comes first.

 

Give her the rope to hang herself with. And who knows? Maybe this IS a wakeup call for her and it will be the first and only wrong path she ever takes and she'll be a model wife hereonout. Starting in 2017, of course.

[Krashi]

can you clue me in?

she was texting all day saying she's sorry, blah, blah, blah

 

now she's texting me like nothing ever happened

 

"Don't worry about bringing the plants inside, I'll take care of it"

 

"wonder if you know who will be at the neighbors party this year"

 

she's acting like she's flippin' out of her mind or something

like there are 3-4 different people living inside her head

 

I don't know what she's playing at

I think she may have a personality disorder, probably NPD. There are some red flags for this: overly concerned about her appearance(somatic NPD?); No work for a decade with no kids at home (big time entitlement/princess syndrome); infidelity; ridicule of BS (Lack of empathy) and how openly she cheated( grandiosity/delusional).

They say a small% of marriages survive infidelity. But not those where the cheater is personality disordered.

[Krashi]

No job for a decade? How did she occupy her time? How is it you agreed to such a lopsided lifestyle: you toil and she leads a life of leisure? Her willingness to go along with this speaks volumes re entitlement. It also says something about you, but I am not sure what.

I hesitate to point this out to you, as you have been abused. But, when the pain lessens in time, you might want to try to figure out why you were willing to be taken advantage of like this( the unfair labor load deal).

[Hero]

almost broke NC

 

now she's texting she wants to come home after my family leaves

says we can't work on the marriage if she's living in a hotel

 

I almost replied with this, but I chickened out and hit DELETE

 

"Hero wants to know, which part didn't you understand, the growl or the bark?"

Edited November 27, 2015 by Hero

[lolablue17]

Be well prepared in legal matters.

 

When she realizes that you're heading to divorce with no regrets, and no hope for her, I'm willing to bet she will start attacking.

 

Her problem now is that you don't want anything from her. But she will understand you want one thing - An amicable divorce, here's something she has a power over you, she has the power to refuse.

 

So you might be facing an opponent who feels she has nothing to lose. She might lie to court, lie to the police, accusing you for many things from her imagination.

 

Beware - she might be dangerous. Be prepared. For example, put constant Recording devices everywhere in your house.

Edited November 27, 2015 by lolablue17

[Just a Guy]

Hi Hero, It's good to know that you had your close family to help you celebrate a festival so aptly named! I guess with all that had happened in the last couple of days your mind must be on a roller coaster. This is a period of time when you must steel yourself against the tsunami of emotions that will wash over you and let that fine analytical mind of yours go to work for you. There is no doubt that your wife is on the verge of an emotional breakdown. As the enormity and finality of what she has done and where she has landed herself sinks in, she will just break down emotionally and the first signs of this ate apparent in her sending you texts messages as if she were discussing the weather. She is clinging on to the last strands of normality as she knew it before she found herself sinking in quicksand. The question is how you are going to deal with things as they stand. A lot of good advice has been given by a lot of people, in particular by Oldshirt, and I would like to add my two cents to it.

My own thinking is that reconciliation after such a dastardly betrayal by your wife is just not possible. Both of you need to spend time apart to introspect on your relationship before, during and after your wife's affair. She especially needs to do some deep reflection on why she left a reasonably happy marriage to pursue a completely ephemeral and shallow relationship with someone with whom s he could never have had a lasting, happy and stable relationship. In your case you would have to ponder over whether your past relationship with your wife was a healthy one and whether, going forward, you would like to have the same kind of relationship with her or something different, assuming you ever got back with her. You would have to look at control issues as someone has pointed out, because it seems she has got used to pressing the right buttons with respect to you and you always reacted predictably.

Having said all this my own advice to you would be to proceed with the divorce, allow a cooling off period and then let her woo you all over again if you do indeed want to get back with her and let her do all the hard work in proving to you that she is indeed a new person and not the same old defective woman prone to cheating. In the mean time you could date others to get a better perspective of things as could she. This is the only approach to my mind that could bring her to her senses and make her realise how much she had lost/ stands to lose. So as you go forward, you will have to make some difficult choices but how you go about making them will decide the course of your life here onwards. Think about it and think hard. Warm wishes and best of luck!

[merrmeade]

almost broke NC

 

now she's texting she wants to come home after my family leaves

says we can't work on the marriage if she's living in a hotel

 

I almost replied with this, but I chickened out and hit DELETE

 

"Hero wants to know, which part didn't you understand, the growl or the bark?"

Here's a link with lists for 'No Contact' and 'the 180' Do's 'n' Don'ts. It helps to get the big picture and understand why you're doing it. Don't know if this is the best one out there, but it's one: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/406628-critical-readings-separation-divorce

[fellini]

Do not listen to your son. Yes, you want to make a decision right now because the brainwashing of the cheater has begun...it begins with the family and moves outward. Next thing you know you will be in counseling telling the counselor you just didn't love her enough So she let some other guy stick his pecker in her. Don't listen to your kid, he is being manipulated. Sorry this is happening to you. Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving. You sound like a great man. You will have your choice of decent, moral and sexy women who aren't blame shifters.

Move on,

Grumps

 

Or maybe he SHOULD listen (but not necessarily act immediately) to his son, who presumable loves him, rather than a group of BH's who don't believe in reconciliation, second chances, or forgiveness, and who are sitting back and watching this man's life unfold and projecting his unknown future based on their singular past.

 

Maybe his son is of offering sound advice that he learned the hard way from his own father and maybe the manipulation is 10 disgruntled BS's on LS most of not all of whom never even thought to let things play out and make decisions not in the heat of the moment.

 

OP. As everyone here has been saying, it's perfectly natural what you are going through. Your world has been smashed. This is also true of you WW. Her world fell apart when she found out that cheating is not an option. Her responses are text book, yes: but also text book for those marriages that didn't make any decisions until much later (3 months is what Shirley Glass recommends) post DDay.

 

Personally Im not focussed on "Divorce". You can divorce or you can separate, whatever you wish, because the question is your relationship with this woman.People divorce and later remarry. My suggestion is that she is in no way revealing her true self any more than a BH reveals his true self in post dday trauma. At no time in this process, and it is a process for both of you, can you put a finger on any one thing, any one TEXT MESSAGE and say "there, there she is, this is who your wife really is". This is just not the correct way to "judge" someone and I imagine deep down you can see that as well.

 

I am not saying you should or shouldn't do anything, nor am I cheerleading for reconciliation, you have no evidence from her that it will work. All you have right now is evidence that she is waking up from her stupidity, that she is beginning to see the light of day, and that she is going to have to start to deal with this for real. Not try bandaid textmessages as a solution.

 

But that is HER job. You need to listen to all those around you who you love and respect, and ultimate reflect on where you want to be tomorrow, 3 months from now, 3 years from now. Who are you? What do you desire?

 

The answer to those questions are yours and only yours, and whether they work out in the end for you is not the point. You make your happiness, you find your true desires, and you live with your own decisions.

 

Good luck from a BS who is 2.5 years in reconciliation from exactly what you are going through now. I don't know what is exactly going on in your head, but I do know that today i will leave my marriage, if it comes to that, for reasons that were not in my emotions during the first month of DDAY.

[Grumpybutfun]

Or maybe he SHOULD listen (but not necessarily act immediately) to his son, who presumable loves him, rather than a group of BH's who don't believe in reconciliation, second chances, or forgiveness, and who are sitting back and watching this man's life unfold and projecting his unknown future based on their singular past.

 

Maybe his son is of offering sound advice that he learned the hard way from his own father and maybe the manipulation is 10 disgruntled BS's on LS most of not all of whom never even thought to let things play out and make decisions not in the heat of the moment.

 

OP. As everyone here has been saying, it's perfectly natural what you are going through. Your world has been smashed. This is also true of you WW. Her world fell apart when she found out that cheating is not an option. Her responses are text book, yes: but also text book for those marriages that didn't make any decisions until much later (3 months is what Shirley Glass recommends) post DDay.

 

Personally Im not focussed on "Divorce". You can divorce or you can separate, whatever you wish, because the question is your relationship with this woman.People divorce and later remarry. My suggestion is that she is in no way revealing her true self any more than a BH reveals his true self in post dday trauma. At no time in this process, and it is a process for both of you, can you put a finger on any one thing, any one TEXT MESSAGE and say "there, there she is, this is who your wife really is". This is just not the correct way to "judge" someone and I imagine deep down you can see that as well.

 

I am not saying you should or shouldn't do anything, nor am I cheerleading for reconciliation, you have no evidence from her that it will work. All you have right now is evidence that she is waking up from her stupidity, that she is beginning to see the light of day, and that she is going to have to start to deal with this for real. Not try bandaid textmessages as a solution.

 

But that is HER job. You need to listen to all those around you who you love and respect, and ultimate reflect on where you want to be tomorrow, 3 months from now, 3 years from now. Who are you? What do you desire?

 

The answer to those questions are yours and only yours, and whether they work out in the end for you is not the point. You make your happiness, you find your true desires, and you live with your own decisions.

 

Good luck from a BS who is 2.5 years in reconciliation from exactly what you are going through now. I don't know what is exactly going on in your head, but I do know that today i will leave my marriage, if it comes to that, for reasons that were not in my emotions during the first month of DDAY.

 

I've never been cheated on in my life. Not a BH. There is a reason for that. Wasting time on a duplicitous spouse/relationship isn't being reasonable, but wasteful. This is just support and suggestions, but I know I wouldn't want my son to be with a woman like this.

You get what you accept in life. Women in my life knew I wouldn't accept this type of behavior. It is called healthy boundaries. I know this is an emotional subject, but stop projecting your insecurities onto me. You are triggered.

Thnx,

G

[fellini]

I've never been cheated on in my life. Not a BH. There is a reason for that. Wasting time on a duplicitous spouse/relationship isn't being reasonable, but wasteful. This is just support and suggestions, but I know I wouldn't want my son to be with a woman like this.

You get what you accept in life. Women in my life knew I wouldn't accept this type of behavior. It is called healthy boundaries. I know this is an emotional subject, but stop projecting your insecurities onto me. You are triggered.

Thnx,

G

 

Im not projecting anything on you. You have basically just made my point. Peope who have not done something are not in a position to talk about it in terms of possiblilities or not. You have not been cheated on. LS is full of stories of men and women who were very clear that cheating was a 100% dealbreaker only to find themselves cheated on, and changed their minds. Others did not. We learn about how clear our positions are in the moment, not entirely in our heads.

 

And while you have never been cheated on because you have "healthy boundaries" you cannot project that onto every single BS in LS. MANY - most BS's talk of having clear boundaries, unmistakable boundaries, yet were cheated on. YOUR BOUNDARIES do no STOP what another person can do, they can only stop YOU.

 

Yours suggestion that people get what they accept suggests that you feel all of us BS's deserved to be cheated on. That we didn't establish our boundaries?

Triggered? I'm just giving speaking to OP based on actual experience.

[aliveagain]

can you clue me in?

she was texting all day saying she's sorry, blah, blah, blah

 

now she's texting me like nothing ever happened

 

"Don't worry about bringing the plants inside, I'll take care of it"

 

"wonder if you know who will be at the neighbors party this year"

 

she's acting like she's flippin' out of her mind or something

like there are 3-4 different people living inside her head

 

I don't know what she's playing at

 

Please read up on compartmentalization, it is a defence mechanism often used by cheating spouses when in a conflict situation. Hero is there any history of BPD or bipolar in her family?

[Marc878]

[i am not saying you should or shouldn't do anything, nor am I cheerleading for reconciliation, you have no evidence from her that it will work. All you have right now is evidence that she is waking up from her stupidity, that she is beginning to see the light of day, and that she is going to have to start to deal with this for real. Not try bandaid textmessages as a solution.]

 

Did I miss something???

 

I have not seen any evidence of her doing this????

 

Really????

[Grumpybutfun]

Im not projecting anything on you. You have basically just made my point. Peope who have not done something are not in a position to talk about it in terms of possiblilities or not. You have not been cheated on. LS is full of stories of men and women who were very clear that cheating was a 100% dealbreaker only to find themselves cheated on, and changed their minds. Others did not. We learn about how clear our positions are in the moment, not entirely in our heads.

 

And while you have never been cheated on because you have "healthy boundaries" you cannot project that onto every single BS in LS. MANY - most BS's talk of having clear boundaries, unmistakable boundaries, yet were cheated on. YOUR BOUNDARIES do no STOP what another person can do, they can only stop YOU.

 

Yours suggestion that people get what they accept suggests that you feel all of us BS's deserved to be cheated on. That we didn't establish our boundaries?

Triggered? I'm just giving speaking to OP based on actual experience.

 

Your emotional response shows you are triggered. No one deserves to be cheated on, but if you stay with a cheater you might get more of the same. If you didn't...good for you. However, the disrespect shown to this poster suggest his wife is an expert at manipulation, subterfuge and gaslighting. If he stays...he has a lot of work for a woman who was lacking. No kids and ten years is something he can move in from. Love is when two people treat each other with respect at all times and doesn't lie.

Look, I get it...this is personal for you. I also know many people who have been cheated on or cheated. Reconciliation is not usually feasible. I also know that most people who try to reconcile give up two or three years before learning they have a duplicitous cheater for a spouse. And yes, we both get to give our opinions here. I have a healthy marriage without cheating and this is how I have one. My wife knows if she cheats, she is gone, therefore there are no questions. Those are called boundaries. Sorry if you think I'm picking on the OP. I'm not. I'm being honest. I'm letting him know that his son is being manipulated because he is a nice guy. If you think he isn't, you haven't been reading the same thread as me.

Agree to disagree on method of going forward and that is ok...the OP is a grown man so I'm not swaying him anyway. He will do what serves him anyway. It is ok if he gets an opinion that doesn't correlate with yours. Maybe counseling would help him too.

Sorry OP for the thread jack,

G

Edited November 27, 2015 by Grumpybutfun

[merrmeade]

And in spite of posting that link I'm not in favor of divorce - or reconciliation - for anyone. Only thing I know is I don't know for someone else.

 

One thing I regret about my own behavior immediately following dday is the wasted effort at starting reconciliation so soon. The ILYs that I didn't mean and made me sick. The trickle truth. All, all wrong. I wish I'd listened to a therapist I rejected after two sessions because she wanted me to wait on couples therapy. She advised individual counseling and to focus on me, forget about him for a while and decide later what to do about us.

 

There were other things she said that bothered me, so maybe she wasn't the therapist for me anyway. But she was right about the need for separation. I needed to separate myself in thought and feeling from my unfaithful husband at that time for many reasons:

1 - We were both too raw and stunned to know or even talk about what we felt or needed long-term, so my/our missteps at premature reconciliation were a waste of time. In fact, marriage counseling at that stage was a setback at best, damaging at worst.

2 - I still needed counseling later to deal with everything plus the extra complications from having tried too soon.

 

NC:

Another reason to wait on the decision to divorce or stay together is that NC is harder when it's forever. She breaks first; you almost succumb. So focusing on some specified period of time is easier to accept and maintain. It's still NO CONTACT and you so do need it for your recovery. You also need to see what she does with it, if and how she works out her own sh-t out and develops remorse.

 

180:

Personally I really don't like the contrived "180" label. The stated or implied incentive of becoming more attractive to the opposite sex or even your wife is an annoying contradiction in terms. But focusing on mental and physical health, finding new sources of happiness should be about just living better. The self-knowledge and discipline you develop as you try to veer out of obsessive tragic thinking and discover new, small pleasures in life—well, also good and healthy. So call it 180 or something else hokey - life meditation, self coaching, idk, whatever it actually is for you maybe. Main thing is to embrace the spirit of it.

 

I'd say if you wanted to make this adjustment currently, talk to your 'people' or your attorney. Somebody can inform her and give the reasons.

 

Then, use the time and figure out what you want to do at the end of the time.

Edited November 27, 2015 by merrmeade

[Friskyone4u]

Hero,

 

A divorce filing does not make the divorce occur instantaneously. And it can be stopped at any time by YOU.

 

Now maybe it is too early to decide anything, but the first thing you need to decide is how based on her bahavior you are going to get up every morning and watch her get dressed to go spend 8-10 hours working directly for the man she was have sex with. You are going to be crawling up the walls and what you should be reading in those texts is NOT THAT she wants TO TALK but that SHE WILL DO ANYTHING you need, including quitting that job.

 

So far all you got was reasons why she was entitled and that you should suck it up. Of course she is upset. She NEVER thought you would do what you did.

[happyman64]

Reconciliation is always preferable. It's chances of success are determined by many things. The two personalities involved, severity of the affair, family support, remorse, etc.

 

ive been around many years and have seen a lot to know nothing is impossible but in this instance I see it as highly unlikely. Why? The level of damage, total disregard and disrespect involved. The biggest is lack of any remorse.

 

Very true Marc.

 

But true remorse very rarely comes right overnight.

 

And when you have someone like Hero's wife ( strong character, willpower, disciplined athlete, selfish, spoiled) that type of person has to hit rock bottom, be on her own, rejected by all others before she is even willing to admit she made her bad choices freely and understands she not only hurt herself but hero as well.

 

Until then Hero has to be willing to continue to show her consequences. He can still love her. He can still show her compassion by telling her to help herself.

 

And if he does it correctly there is a good chance the lightbulb will go off in her head and she will come to the realization that she acted selfishly, on her own recognizance and that she blew up the marriage all on her own.

 

It does not mean Hero still wants to be married to her.

 

He will have to sort out those feelings for himself.

 

And I understand his Son speaking to her. She was his Stepmom for a number of years. They have their own relationship that will need to be sorted out as well.

 

Because she damaged that relationship as well......

 

 

And I think all of those realizations of the magnitude of hurt she has inflicted on hero, her stepson and four legged hero are just beginning to dawn on her...........

[happyman64]

almost broke NC

 

now she's texting she wants to come home after my family leaves

says we can't work on the marriage if she's living in a hotel

 

I almost replied with this, but I chickened out and hit DELETE

 

"Hero wants to know, which part didn't you understand, the growl or the bark?"

 

Have you given any thought under what condition you would let her home??

 

I would have texted her something like this

 

"Please list all the choices you had available to you to "work on the marriage" that does not include dishonesty or an extramarital affair."

 

Make her think Hero. But maybe hold off for after the holiday weekend.

 

Continue to Control the situation.

 

On your timeframe. Not hers.

 

HM

[katielee]

she's peddling like crazy and has not yet hit rock bottom. don't stop the fall.

[road]

Everyone gets it but you, see what she says about you getting some strange, we all know that answer.

 

 

Yes she is tempting you to do what she did. In her mind the score will then be even and you will have nothing to complain about. Talk about crazy logic. But what kind of logic does one get from a warped mind.

[Marc878]

Very true Marc.

 

But true remorse very rarely comes right overnight.

 

And when you have someone like Hero's wife ( strong character, willpower, disciplined athlete, selfish, spoiled) that type of person has to hit rock bottom, be on her own, rejected by all others before she is even willing to admit she made her bad choices freely and understands she not only hurt herself but hero as well.

 

Until then Hero has to be willing to continue to show her consequences. He can still love her. He can still show her compassion by telling her to help herself.

 

And if he does it correctly there is a good chance the lightbulb will go off in her head and she will come to the realization that she acted selfishly, on her own recognizance and that she blew up the marriage all on her own.

 

It does not mean Hero still wants to be married to her.

 

He will have to sort out those feelings for himself.

 

And I understand his Son speaking to her. She was his Stepmom for a number of years. They have their own relationship that will need to be sorted out as well.

 

Because she damaged that relationship as well......

 

 

And I think all of those realizations of the magnitude of hurt she has inflicted on hero, her stepson and four legged hero are just beginning to dawn on her...........

 

I don't see that from what I've read. One poster said it best. It wasn't just an affair but cruelty. (Poking fun at him, calling him a fool, lastly telling him he needed to se a Dr for his paranoia). I suspect forgiveness but reconciliation, no

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

WTH???

 

just got this text from the STBXW

 

"we should get a lady dog for Hero"

 

WTH???

 

She's not sober.

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

Yep. She got exiled, so she spent the whole holiday thinking about how screwed up HER life is now. So she focused on what would get your attention.

 

Here's what I would tell you. Tell your wife that you are willing to sit back and WATCH her - for the next YEAR. Apart. In separate homes. And to see if she can handle living apart from you for a whole year WITHOUT seeking out other men. Tell her flat out it's a test. You're in no hurry to do anything, but you have NO intention of letting her come back to you without giving you concrete proof that she has seen the truth - that this is ALL ON HER and she has a hell of a lot to make up to you.

 

So you're giving her an opportunity to do just that - make it up to you. From separate homes, using her own money to support herself, seeing NO OTHER MEN, for a full year. And if she cannot handle that, then you have your answer. And you will file for divorce at the end of 2016, or whenever she breaks down and starts sexing herself up for some other man, whichever comes first.

 

Give her the rope to hang herself with. And who knows? Maybe this IS a wakeup call for her and it will be the first and only wrong path she ever takes and she'll be a model wife hereonout. Starting in 2017, of course.

This is a terrible plan.

 

As a practical matter, how can she prove she wasn't with any other men? There could be evidence she was with another nan, but how can she account for 24/7 for a whole year?

 

This sounds like a plan to waste a year of your time.