I take ownership for the death of my marriage

[ProdigalMe]

Are you sure she can waive it permanently in separation paperwork?

 

 

.

 

Thanks for asking this question. It prompted me to think about it and do some research. In California, final orders regarding property issues and marital status can be adjudicated in separate proceedings. Property issues (including spousal award issues) may be adjudicated to finality in legal separation proceedings, quite apart from divorce proceedings. A final order that comes out of a legal separation proceeding is conclusive, and cannot be re-litigated in a later divorce proceeding, unless one spouse claims fraud. In our legal separation case, we have a final order stating she gives up spousal support forever.

 

So, the short answer is yes, when she gives up spousal support in a legal separation proceeding, she gives it up forever, even if there is a divorce proceeding later, unless she can prove fraud (a narrow exception that requires steep proof). So, I'm basically home free. But I'm still going to take your advice and not "rock the boat" (why give her incentive to claim fraud?).

[ProdigalMe]

Now that the legal separation is finished, I know the next step is divorce.

But, knowing it in my mind is much different than accepting it in my heart.

Why is is this so difficult?

 

Today, I had a major setback emotionally. She reminded me in an email that she wants the divorce paperwork filed this month. That really threw me for a loop. But why? Why is it so hard for me to accept that a divorce is coming? I thought I was prepared for this moment, but obviously I'm not. I knew the divorce filing would be this month, but I still have not accepted it. It's weird that I'm still in denial. Six months after the divorce request, and six weeks after the cheating, and I'm still in denial.

 

While I was watching the Super Bowl yesterday at a friend's party, all I could think about was her. We've spent countless Super Bowl Sundays together, but this year was different. She wasn't there, and I all I could think about was her absence.

 

Tonight is going to be a rough night. February is too.

Edited February 9, 2016 by ProdigalMe

[cja]

Now that the legal separation is finished, I know the next step is divorce.

But, knowing it in my mind is much different than accepting it in my heart.

Why is is this so difficult?

 

Today, I had a major setback emotionally. She reminded me in an email that she wants the divorce paperwork filed this month.That really threw me for a loop. But why? Why is it so hard for me to accept that a divorce is coming? I thought I was prepared for this moment, but obviously I'm not. I knew the divorce filing would be this month, but I still have not accepted it. It's weird that I'm still in denial. Six months after the divorce request, and six weeks after the cheating, and I'm still in denial.

 

While I was watching the Super Bowl yesterday at a friend's party, all I could think about was her. We've spent countless Super Bowl Sundays together, but this year was different. She wasn't there, and I all I could think about was her absence.

 

Tonight is going to be a rough night. February is too.

 

My situation is different than yours, but I so, completely understand the bolded! And I don't know why. I've been separated for a year and a half with a two months failed reconciliation thrown in between, and the time hasn't made it easier. I mean logically I get it: spouses are a huge part of our lives and that partnership was a part of our identity etc... But, no, it doesn't make it easier. My H notarized the paperwork today and though that is what I want and I know the best path forward for us both, but that it was anticipated and inevitable does NOT make it emotionally more bearable. Keep on keepin' on though.

Edited February 9, 2016 by cja

[ProdigalMe]

I mean logically I get it: spouses are a huge part of our lives and that partnership was a part of our identity etc... But, no, it doesn't make it easier. My H notarized the paperwork today and though that is what I want and I know the best path forward for us both, but that it was anticipated and inevitable does NOT make it emotionally more bearable. Keep on keepin' on though.

 

Yes, let's you and me keep on keepin' on this year. I will just have to accept that I can never truly prepare myself for the emotions that will come this year. I just have to expect and accept that the heart will always lag behind the mind.

 

I already know there will be many more times when grief hits me. You probably sense that you too will have your moments of grief. You're doing the right thing (even if your heart says no). We're both scared and hesitant. All we can do is put one foot in front of the other. Just do that. Try not to look back. That will only remind you that you are getting distant from him, and that will scare you needlessly. Instead, just look forward. Sure, it's the unknown future, but it's probably better than your past. Walk with us.

[sinny]

OMG! Thanks for your post and for expanding your self knowledge.

The covert narcissism is hitting the nail on the head for what I feel in my relationship with my husband. I also fear I am becoming more like him in an effort to cope.

This is from your link:

covert" narcissists were more prone to feelings of neglect or belittlement, hypersensitivity, anxiety, and delusions of persecution.

So true! Its so draining and exhausting. I will show him the test but doubt it will make a dent.

Any tips on how to deal with it? I am just withdrawing more and more myself. Its been 17 years.

[ProdigalMe]

OMG! Thanks for your post and for expanding your self knowledge.

The covert narcissism is hitting the nail on the head for what I feel in my relationship with my husband. I also fear I am becoming more like him in an effort to cope.

This is from your link:

covert" narcissists were more prone to feelings of neglect or belittlement, hypersensitivity, anxiety, and delusions of persecution.

So true! Its so draining and exhausting. I will show him the test but doubt it will make a dent.

Any tips on how to deal with it? I am just withdrawing more and more myself. Its been 17 years.

 

I'm no expert. And I'm only average on the covert narcissist scale (i.e. no better or worse than the general population). But here's a couple of things I can tell you anecdotally about myself. I am sensitive to criticism. I get defensive if attacked. I sometimes feel put out if someone comes to me with their problems. And I do use the silent treatment to punish someone.

 

If you're on the receiving end, just try to be aware of how you make your approach. An attack posture will rarely get you anywhere with him. Instead try talking about what you feel (and not how he's failing) and explain how "we" would benefit or what would be good for "us." (Example: "I feel like we're drifting apart. I want to spend more time with you because I miss us. Before you go to your room (man cave) and before I go on my iPad I think we should spend a few minutes talking about something other than work, chores, bills, the kids, or even our relationship. Just talk. That's all."). If I'm using the silent treatment, I stopped when I got called out on it (once I knew the other person knew that I was using silence to punish, I was usually too embarrassed to continue the silent treatment).

 

You won't get results overnight. It will definitely be exhausting. But it might be worth it if there's a breakthrough.

 

If you're the one dishing it out, just be conscious of it. Be conscious of your reactions and remind yourself that you always get to decide to what and to whom you ascribe your feelings.

 

I hope this helps. And I hope you and your husband save your marriage.

[ProdigalMe]

Things took a strange turn. Earlier this week she texted me and said that I could stay on her health insurance until the divorce is finalized. She pays the health insurance. I pay the car insurance. She asked if I could reimburse her the difference each month (about $90).

 

Because I'm in no contact with her I didn't respond right away. But maybe I should have. Tonight she dropped by unannounced and rang the doorbell like 50 times. She couldn't open the door because there is a bar lever that prevents it from opening. The lights in my house were off and I didn't answer. She then went away and sent me nasty emails about how I was withholding her property (she's had 6 weekends to move it, and suddenly I'm withholding it??).

 

She's dropped by unannounced at least four times now (three of those times I wasn't home). I'm the husband she hates yet she finds time to stop by. And we all know she wasn't here to pick up stuff. That was just a ruse. As to my failure to answer her question about the insurance reimbursement, that's not so urgent that it requires a late night visit (she even told me in her email that it's ok to not reimburse her).

 

Am I doing NC incorrectly? I'm doing it to heal and break the emotional bond. She interprets it as me punishing her and making her feel like nothing.

 

Scratching my head here.

[hl1962]

I don't have much experience in NC, but I'd do what you do. You are dealing with a woman who can/wants to manipulate your emotion. It's disrespectful to stop by unannounced. My H and I still live under the same roof. I detached a long time ago. I'm giving him the time to do the same if that's what he wants. Both kids are out of the house. It's awkward. We don't hang out, barely talk unless it's kids related; there were days we don't even see each other. Think things clearly, know what you want, and stick to your gun. She doesn't like you if she sent you nasty emails. Hanging in there.

[ProdigalMe]

I don't have much experience in NC, but I'd do what you do. You are dealing with a woman who can/wants to manipulate your emotion. It's disrespectful to stop by unannounced. My H and I still live under the same roof. I detached a long time ago. I'm giving him the time to do the same if that's what he wants. Both kids are out of the house. It's awkward. We don't hang out, barely talk unless it's kids related; there were days we don't even see each other. Think things clearly, know what you want, and stick to your gun. She doesn't like you if she sent you nasty emails. Hanging in there.

 

 

I know what's it like to live together in awkwardness. I did it for 5 months. At first we acted like a normal couple, but towards the end it got really strained as we became more and more distant. It was actually a bit of a relief to finally physically separate because that daily tension was gone.

 

This part of the "uncoupling" is difficult because no matter what either of us do, we misinterpret what the other is doing. If she goes no contact, I think she's cold and heartless (but the reality is, she's just protecting her feelings, and isn't punishing me). And if I go no contact, she thinks I'm treating her like nothing and it confirms that I never loved her (even though I'm really just trying to heal and break the emotional bond between us).

 

I have to find the right balance between no contact and limited contact. We still have to communicate on things such as divorce paperwork and taxes and other loose ends. I guess I have to respond in a timely fashion, but still be in such limited contact that I don't set my progress back. I have been good about avoiding face to face meetings and telephone conversations. And I try to keep written communications to a business-like minimum.

 

Still, it's my apartment. It's my space. I don't like that she comes by without asking. I need to set that boundary.

 

I hope you and your husband work out your issues. And if not, I wish you find happiness and contentment again.

[hl1962]

I have been ice cold since the end of 2014. I'm the nicest person, but being cold to help him detach. Have to appear heartless.

 

Just read this, life! Not in my case because I knew we weren't compatible before getting married. He begged, I caved in. Put in 20+ years of my life. You guys, on the other hand, had some good years in the beginning. I'm lost for words. You need to be extremely wise to differentiate her intention between communication and manipulation.

 

"Dubbs, you guys are the perfect candidate for MC. Your feelings/what your feeling resonate with me. I was a Firefighter, and my father died at 56 (I'm close to 50 now). My marriage took a major toll on my ex-wife and I. It is very, very, possible that we would still be married now if we did MC. Sadly for us, it was too late. We took no steps to save the marriage and both of us have discussed the "what if" scenario (we are still close friends to this day) if we had."

[ProdigalMe]

Married 9 years, wife asked for divorce 6 months ago, separated 6 weeks now. I asked multiple times (begged even) for another chance, but was denied. She said unequivocally that we are going to get divorced. She even had what I characterize as an "exit affair." I guess in her mind it would make the divorce easier if we both emotionally detached over the affair.

 

So I went no contact (NC) after the separation. NC was just what the doctor ordered. It doesn't cure the loneliness, but it does reduce the anxiety, tension, longing and sadness.

 

It's true what they say, once you enter separation/divorce-land, you enter a minefield of factual distortion. History gets re-written. According to her, there was never any love in the marriage. According to her, I'm treating her like she's nothing due to my NC silence. Recently she wrote an email stating that because we are no longer on speaking terms (because of my NC) she would like to start the divorce process.

 

This implies that the divorce is now entirely my fault. That it's only happening because I've gone NC. But what about the 5 or 6 times in the last 6 months where she told me unequivocally and forcefully that the marriage is over and that we are definitely getting divorced? In other words, she had long decided that we are getting divorced. My recent NC has nothing to do with it, really. But historical accuracy has nothing to do with divorce; that's what I'm realizing. Divorce becomes a narrative that we tell to soothe ourselves.

 

Crumbs. That's what I'm being fed. She's sending out a siren call: "End your NC. Come beg for me. Sail full speed towards the rocks. And maybe. Maybe. You can win me back." And to be honest, the siren call is so tempting. It's so alluring. It's god-awful lonely where I am. I want to reach out. I want to break the silence. I want to tell her that I...that I....

 

Do you ever get the feeling that someone has you right where they want you?

Edited February 17, 2016 by ProdigalMe

[cja]

^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^ rings so true.

 

Like Odysseus navigating past the island of the sirens, unable to resist their beckoning song, but for him having his men bound him to the ship's mast. And also like Odysseus no one else can really understand the allure, their ears are thankfully plugged. It's a curious situation to be in, and sometimes can look insane I'd venture from the outside looking in.

 

Thanks for sharing!

[Calmandfocused]

Prodigal,

 

First of all I'm enjoying the way you write. You have an excellent way of telling a story. I've read all your thread and this is how I see it:

 

She isn't re-writing history. She's trying to justify her decision to have an affair. We all do this. Instead of accepting self blame it's easier to blame the other party and seek justification for our actions.

 

Secondly, I think the email was partly due to the above reason but also she's missing your attention and adoration of her. If she wanted you back, she could just easily say that. Didn't you say her new flame has now dumped her? Must be difficult going from having attention from 2 males to having none.

 

I don't think you should beg for her back, chase her, or even reach out to her unless she's sending you the clear message that shes sorry and wants to work it out. Personally I think you deserve better but obviously that choice is ypurs

[ProdigalMe]

I'm glad you are enjoying the writing in my thread. I decided some time ago that if I'm going to take up a reader's time, I have some responsibility to be helpful, thoughtful and entertaining.

 

The man my wife had been pursuing has apparently stopped texting her, rather abruptly, and is suddenly too busy for her. I had warned her earlier to not let him take advantage of her. It was readily apparent to me that they had different goals (her: a relationship; him: NSA sex). Well, he met his goal. She realized this and has blocked his number (I wonder if she ever thinks, "damn, my husband was right."). Thanks for mentioning the difficulty she must be feeling after two men have stopped catering to her needs. I didn't think about that perspective until you said it.

 

The siren call carries so much temptation. But I realize that it doesn't mean she wants to save our marriage. I liken it to watching an airplane break apart in the sky. The parts are burning, crumbling and streaking (and you see everything: the stuff that makes the plane stay aloft, and the stuff that is making it crash). Her siren call might seem like a part that is making the plane stay up, but really it's just part and parcel of the big ball of flames that has an urgent appointment with the ground.

 

Even so, as she and I parachute away, it's crazy that I still wish I had a window seat on that plane.

Edited February 19, 2016 by ProdigalMe

[Calmandfocused]

Sure, but doesn't a brand new shiny plane appeal to you? A plane where the current destination is unknown but has a higher probability of being a smoother ride?

 

I like your analogy

 

By the way I wish my husband had a smidgen of your insight. If he did we probably wouldn't be getting divorced.

 

I still think that your wife wants you to be her puppet on a string. Likely, she will reel you back in, lap up the attention but still give you the message that she wants a divorce? Do you really want that? If she's made her decision and has been adamant for the past 6 months, how is giving her any attention helpful to you in any way?

 

To add onto my last point. It is very flattering when two men want you. She's probably struggling with feelings of rejection, hence wanting you to chase her again. However remember that you are not responsible for her feelings or making her feel better. She's made her own bed.

[ProdigalMe]

I like your shiny new plane analogy.

 

Switching gears, to your story. I'm sorry that you and your marriage are suffering. It must be so frustrating to wish for your partner to change, to meet your needs, and despair when it doesn't happen. My wife certainly wished that I had changed, but I didn't. Not in time anyway.

 

I have a feeling your kids will be fine even if you separate and divorce. It sounds like you do more for them than your partner so they really won't miss much. They'll have some stability from continuing their normal school routine. And they will definitely notice a happier, less-tense you.

 

Still, I can't help but wish the two of you could somehow come back together. The cure would be less lunacy/selfishness from him, and forgiveness from you.

 

It's weird. My marriage imploded but I'm still pro-marriage. Either I'm an

optimist or I'm a dunce. Probably an optimist. I would have to be really thick-headed to not have learned anything from this experience.

 

I wish you well.

[Calmandfocused]

Prodigal, thank you for your kind words.

 

So what's the update? Have you replied to her or remained NC?

 

Best of luck to you too whatever you decide is best

[Strongerlife]

Your posts are helpful! I hope she dosent win, you seem very nice. To nice to be used..

 

I too wish my husband thought like you, but he dosent. It's hard to accept things at times.

[ProdigalMe]

Let's backtrack. On December 27, 2015, she began moving things out of our apartment. Then, she moved into her own place on December 30, but she left items in my apartment. As the weekends passed, she slowly moved these items out. She kept changing the date for when she would finally complete her move and return the keys to me. I made sure that in the last 3 weeks, I wasn't there when she was (no contact).

 

So, finally, today, after 9 weekends, she has finished her move, according to an email she sent me. She left the keys on the dining room table and the garage door opener in the mail slot. She can never enter on her own again. Her email finished with, "I guess this is goodbye."

 

Although I never want to see or speak to her again, or have an official sit-down goodbye chat, today I feel tremendous pain. It really is over. It's taking a lot of restraint to not cry here at my keyboard. I guess I'll let the grief wash over me for now.

 

This song captures my current mood:

 

(Lily & Madeleine; "Things I'll Later Lose"; youtube.com)

[ProdigalMe]

Your posts are helpful! I hope she dosent win, you seem very nice. To nice to be used..

 

I too wish my husband thought like you, but he dosent. It's hard to accept things at times.

 

I understand the devastation you're feeling. Follow through on going to counseling for your own sake (don't carry these burdens around by yourself; talk to a counselor, to friends, to family).

 

Push him to go to his own counseling, to at least address his depression (if he doesn't go then that's his problem, not yours).

 

In my situation, I'm not going to play the protagonist. I'm nice, sometimes, I'm mean, sometimes. She is too. So, there are no winners. We both lost. But I still have the material to make a brighter future, whether it's alone or with someone else. I hang onto that.

 

I wish you well.

[TextnHate]

 

Although I never want to see or speak to her again, or have an official sit-down goodbye chat, today I feel tremendous pain. It really is over. It's taking a lot of restraint to not cry here at my keyboard. I guess I'll let the grief wash over me for now.

 

)

Brutal man, makes me tear up alittle lol. I know my day also is coming soon and Im dreading it. Stay strong brother.

[Mundo]

Prodigal,

 

Thank you for your posts. I have been following your thread and it has helped me look at my situation. I have been able to draw a lot of parrelles from your post and my own situation. Like you, all to late. Keep up the good fight.

[ProdigalMe]

She's finally moved out, and she gave me back her keys to my apartment.

 

But, she forgot to drop off the divorce paperwork. Our arrangement is that I prepare the paperwork, she signs it, and then I file it. There are several rounds of paperwork to get through, but we save ourselves on attorneys fees this way. That's how we did the legal separation (and saved ourselves thousands of dollars by doing it ourselves).

 

I told her about 3 weeks ago to drop off the signed divorce paperwork when she drops off the keys. Well, she dropped off the keys, but not the paperwork.

 

I remind myself to not read too much into what something means. It probably doesn't mean anything. When it comes to separation/divorce, developments don't happen in a straight line. And just because there are detours, it doesn't mean that two people will find themselves back together. It's like the Mississippi River. It will turn left, it will turn right, it may be even turn back, but we all know it's going to wind up in the Gulf.

 

Sometimes the waiting is the hardest part. When will the other shoe drop? When will she give me the divorce paperwork? I brace myself for it, but it's like bracing yourself for a punch in a pitch-black room. You don't know when it's coming, or from where.

 

I've been in very, very low contact with her (email only; business-like, no personal stuff). I just call it NC. I have not seen her face nor heard her voice since January 23rd. Day by day the emotional wounds heal, but it seems imperceptible.

[hl1962]

Maybe the room would not be so dark if you stop wishing. Focus on yourself. Now is the time to be selfish. You are a good writer. You can write when you have unfavorable thoughts. Deal with whatever comes your way.

[ProdigalMe]

Scene one: We meet after I’ve been out of town for a week on business. She is scheduled to work that day. We wind up in bed for 2 hours. It’s a hot summer day, and we’re both glistening. We've been dating for only 3 months, and we haven't seen each other in a week, so this rendezvous is urgent and hungry. She’s late for work. She’s doesn’t care.

 

Scene two: We go to a neighboring city to visit an ice cream parlor. Her idea. She likes going out, being social, exploring. But for some reason I’m irritated and I’m in a foul mood. We wind up having an awful time. I apologize afterwards. WTF is wrong with me? It’s ice cream. It’s supposed to be fun.

 

Scene three: Christmas in the mountains. Driving through the snow. Playing in the snow. Ordering room service for almost every meal. It’s just the two of us, in our own little world, eating bagels with smoked salmon from little silver trays. We giggle and agree that we’ll order room service dinner too. We stare at the quiet blanket of white outside our 9th floor hotel window.

 

Scene four: I’m sitting at the computer, web-surfing aimlessly. It’s how I unwind after work. Problem is, I shouldn’t be unwinding for 4 hours. She comes in and we fight. Why do I ignore her? She’s right. Why?

 

Scene five: She’s baking chocolate chip cookies. I just learned that my father, who is many miles away, died in the morning after a long illness that she and I knew about. But she doesn’t know he’s gone yet. I go to the kitchen. She smiles and shows me the tray of cookies. Without a word, I put the tray aside, and when she studies my face, she knows. “No!,” she cries.

 

Scene six: Fourth of July. We’re having dinner and then start arguing about me buying an expensive item. I already have the same thing, in a different color, she says. Later, we watch fireworks, but from separate vantage points. We walk back to the hotel without looking at each other.

 

That was my relationship/marriage (16 years LTR/9 years M). I was both antagonist and protagonist. We all are.

Edited March 3, 2016 by ProdigalMe