Suicide and the afterlife

[Quest]

When a person commits suicide, how would God handle them and where would their soul go?

 

I have known a few people who committed suicide but only one whose state of mind I had much insight into prior to his taking his own life. He was so troubled and so unhappy, and no-one could reach him or make things any better for him. He had lots of friends and had been a good athlete and scholar. He was also good looking and had always been popular. All of us who knew him were distraught and his mother was, and still is, devastated. He'd had a lot of personal disappointment and went into an increasingly self-destructive cycle of drinking too much and becoming ever more depressed. I remember him as a lovely, lively, talented child and young adult. There was nothing 'bad' about him. He just had more pain than he could take and nothing and nobody could make this better for him. If there is such a thing as a soul, distinct from the body, then I believe his will be at peace in a way it wasn't possible for it to be in life.

[Taramere]

I just wanted to quickly add - Truthtripper, I'm sorry, I actually got your thread here confused with a different one I'd read on here in which the person stated that they were going to end their life and was pondering on whether there might be something in the afterlife. My apologies for that. I hope that you yourself are okay just now.

[Taramere]

I understand your words Taramere. When my husband and father were dying of brain cancer, the most difficult part was not their physical care. It was being helpless to save them. Standing by and watching someone you love slowly leave and despite all effort, being unable to stop it is crushing. The neurologists and oncologists were steadfast and had developed an objective stoicism to protect themselves. My husband and father did not want to die...but they did.

 

I'm so sorry you experienced that with not just one but two people you loved, Timshel. The world is so brutally unfair at times - taking physical health from those who want it, gifting it to those who don't.

 

I have had a major depression and have treated people with major depression. All the education and objective knowledge can still be tainted by frustration with, as you said, the absence of a spark/will to live.

 

I know. I think if you've come through something yourself, and then somebody else who is going through it takes the "you don't understand" approach, it's hard to listen to. An example is the "if you're really depressed then you can't get out of bed." Well, but what if you just absolutely have to get out of bed? The bottom line is that you'll do whatever it takes to get better.

 

Or the suicidal person who says "you don't understand that when you reach that point you're beyond thinking about the impact it'll have on family." Well, I think that there are people who could reach any point and still have thoughts of the likely impact on family weighing heavily on their mind. Even if it feels like a guilt inducing trap, it might just be the thing that keeps them going through the motions of doing what they're supposed to do to feel better - until one day they realise that it's actually working.

[truthtripper]

I have known a few people who committed suicide but only one whose state of mind I had much insight into prior to his taking his own life. He was so troubled and so unhappy, and no-one could reach him or make things any better for him. He had lots of friends and had been a good athlete and scholar. He was also good looking and had always been popular. All of us who knew him were distraught and his mother was, and still is, devastated. He'd had a lot of personal disappointment and went into an increasingly self-destructive cycle of drinking too much and becoming ever more depressed. I remember him as a lovely, lively, talented child and young adult. There was nothing 'bad' about him. He just had more pain than he could take and nothing and nobody could make this better for him. If there is such a thing as a soul, distinct from the body, then I believe his will be at peace in a way it wasn't possible for it to be in life.

Do you know if he was abused in childhood? Family and friends and society in general for that matter, are usually not able to cope with this reality and will naturally avoid the topic. Denial is easier. So the only way the abused person can socially fit in and be accepted is by putting up a facade to their pain. The resulting isolation can give rise to suicide.

 

Child abuse is more common than most would expect. It occurs in every family to varying degrees and many people are in denial about their own abuse, which can also lead to 'unexplained' inner turmoil and suicide.

[truthtripper]

People with mental health conditions like anorexia, depression etc can make huge progress and live fulfilling and healthy lives with the right treatment and help. But, they have to want to get better. Unfortunately sometimes a person's condition becomes their "baby"...which is what happened with my friend. It's her identity. She can't conceive of a life and an identity that doesn't revolve around being anorexic.

People who self destruct were taught to in their childhoods thanks to their abusive parents/caretakers. Denial about one's own abuse/lack of self-awareness results in addictive self harm which in turn becomes the "baby" or the main focus of the sufferer in an effort to escape from the painful truth of their abuse. Unfortunately, our love for the abusive people who raised us can blind us from the truth.

[TaraMaiden2]

People who self destruct were taught to in their childhoods thanks to their abusive parents/caretakers. Denial about one's own abuse/lack of self-awareness results in addictive self harm which in turn becomes the "baby" or the main focus of the sufferer in an effort to escape from the painful truth of their abuse. Unfortunately, our love for the abusive people who raised us can blind us from the truth.

 

Everything *you* think, say or do, is a choice.

 

When a sufferer of Mental afflictions is surrounded by well-meaning individuals, someone, at some point or other, is standing in that circle, and that 'someone' will reveal and point out the truth:

That truth is, that with every manner or means of support available to *you*, no matter how strong or effective it may be, the decision to pursue that avenue, is *yours*.

 

having lived and worked with some unfortunate, desperate and saddened individuals suffering from mental afflictions, I know that ultimately, the road to healing was CHOSEN by them.

They might have been blinkered. They were never blinded.

 

Just as Taramere's friend has had every available resource made available to her, or given to her, she has somehow, for some reasons, CHOSEN to ignore, deny and refuse them.

 

Nobody can be IN the mind of another; but what goes on behind your eyes, is a million times more powerful and amazing, than anything you will ever see in front of them.

The Brain is explained.

The Mind, still a largely-unexplored mysterious territory.

But choices still count.

 

With much Metta to you.

[truthtripper]

I have had a major depression and have treated people with major depression. All the education and objective knowledge can still be tainted by frustration with, as you said, the absence of a spark/will to live. .

When people face their own problems, they are able to face the problems of others. Sharing pain and empathising is what ignites the "spark", not pushing pain away and pretending to be endlessly happy, the latter being the goal of most people.

[truthtripper]

I just wanted to quickly add - Truthtripper, I'm sorry, I actually got your thread here confused with a different one I'd read on here in which the person stated that they were going to end their life and was pondering on whether there might be something in the afterlife. My apologies for that. I hope that you yourself are okay just now.

No worries Taramere, suicide is not in my list of Things to Do. In fact, my suicidal fantasies enable me to appreciate my life much more.

[truthtripper]

Just as Taramere's friend has had every available resource made available to her, or given to her, she has somehow, for some reasons, CHOSEN to ignore, deny and refuse them.

She has chosen to refuse them because she was taught to self destruct. As the saying goes "old habits die hard". She has little choice as she was loved with abuse. Love is equated with abuse. She does not know what genuine love is. She doesn't know any better. This is an example of what so many people are suffering from. For example, many members of my mother's family, even in this day and age, don't understand why an adult having sexual relations with a child is criminal. Why?-because as children they were conditioned into this way of life. It's normal for them. They didn't have the opportunity to live with other families to compare their own with. What a person grows up with, they will unconsciously and blindly practice in adult life in some way.

[TaraMaiden2]

She has chosen to refuse them because she was taught to self destruct. As the saying goes "old habits die hard".

Sure they do. I know they do. The point is, they can die if we let them.

 

She has little choice as she was loved with abuse. Love is equated with abuse. She does not know what genuine love is.

Yes, she does. Taramere's affection is what real love is. Helping hands and willing participants all gave genuine love, affection and consideration. She has shut the door on that, because she chooses to rely on the Past for her truth, rather than the present.

 

She doesn't know any better.

Yes, she does. Many people have attempted to SHOW her better. She has chosen to remain in self-willed ignorance.

(I hate to talk about Taramere's friend in this way, from a distant point, but we are discussing her as the only currently available focal point. I personally mean absolutely no disrespect at all, and hope Taramere takes no offence.)

 

This is an example of what so many people are suffering from. For example, many members of my mother's family, even in this day and age, don't understand why an adult having sexual relations with a child is criminal. Why?-because as children they were conditioned into this way of life.

Can I just ask, are we discussing a mental illness, which requires medical psychiatric and clinical evaluation and treatment, or a psychological condition, that need not necessarily necessitate a medical input?

 

ETA: "Conditioned". Interesting word, 'conditioned'. I use it a lot to illustrate learned behaviour. Humans are programmed to behave in certain ways. Conditioning is imposed. And can be un-imposed.

 

It's normal for them. They didn't have the opportunity to live with other families to compare their own with

 

They don't need to. They simply need to observe how society in general, functions and treats its children.

What a person grows up with, they will unconsciously and blindly practice in adult life in some way.

 

I believe I have seen posts here describing a pattern of behaviour that a person pursued because AT THE TIME, they knew no other way, and thought that the learnt manner of behaviour/interaction was normal. On discovering that not all people did *this*, in fact it was rare and/or frowned upon, their behaviour altered, over varying periods of time...

 

People always, but always HAVE choices.

Many, however, either refuse to believe this, or feel they have only one.

Edited January 4, 2016 by TaraMaiden2

[Taramere]

Sure they do. I know they do. The point is, they can die if we let them.

 

 

Yes, she does. Taramere's affection is what real love is. Helping hands and willing participants all gave genuine love, affection and consideration. She has shut the door on that, because she chooses to rely on the Past for her truth, rather than the present.

 

The medical team treating her found it important to meet with friends as well as family. In some ways, I felt as though they were pulling me in as a quasi professional and I had to put my foot down to say "I will do what I can to be a responsible and aware friend, but I am just a friend. I don't think she needs another professional in her life." Which, actually, they were great about and agreed with. I think all they were really trying to do was a) check that I was an appropriate person for her to go out on passes with (ie that I wouldn't collude with eating disordered behaviour) and b) provide me with some sort of support in recognition that it's a difficult situation for anybody to cope with.

 

Those people treating her were fantastic. I would love to have regular access to a team of people who were so supportive, knowledgeable and committed to helping people to reach their potential. All my friend could do was rebel against them. She's stuck in a sort of perpetual state of adolescent rebellion - and that's something she's very aware of herself. It doesn't matter how long you spend discussing all these things with her. It's always going to be ground somebody else has always covered. You're never going to hit new ground with her. She's lived with this for decades.

 

It's one of various reasons I don't talk much about it to other people. People will try to explain what's going on for my friend...and I feel like a fluent French speaker being taught to say "Bonjour!" I've talked about this with her over the course of hundreds of hours, I've given hugely of myself and so have others. Lots of people have given to the point of hurting in an effort to help her, but it's like pouring everything you have down a bottomless hole.

 

Truthtripper talks about people facing up to their own demons and sharing in an effort to help the person. I've done that too. Sat and cried buckets about my own sh*t, her sh*t...about the thought of what all this must be doing to her mother. Her reaction will be to swallow, look a bit upset and say "sorry to upset you." She's a very sweet, nice person...but I think what people don't always realise is that narcissism comes in various forms. A person can be very sweet, nice and polite and still be narcissistic in terms of really not having any core sense of self.

 

Her psychiatrist, during one meeting, asked me if I attract narcissistic people. It was one of those awful moments where you feel "seen". This expert sees me as a dysfunctional person who attracts dysfunctional people. I said that, and she said not at all....but she said that I struck her as somebody who has learned to manage narcissistic people very well. Probably as well as they can possibly be managed, which she saw as partly an accomplishment, but also a burden that could impact negatively on my life. It's important, if you have somebody like that in your life, to counter their influence by maintaining regular contact with more empathic, genuinely nurturing people. That meeting with the psychiatrist couldn't have come at a better time. That weekend I was going to visit an old friend I hadn't seen in years. She lives in another country now, but it's one of those amazing, life affirming friendships that remind you what friendship at its very best looks like.

 

Because even though my friend with the eating disorder really tries to give something back to people, and really wants to - she's so empty inside that all she can really manage is little gifts, or "let's have champagne" or "I've bought you a theatre ticket." Lots of things I might not even want, but that she wants me to have - because it's all she knows. The only way she can think of to repay other people for their friendship. And of course she knows that the best gift she could give anybody would be to get better...but it's not in her power. I see how my friend is, and it makes me understand so thoroughly why people say that narcissism is incurable.

 

I was in a relationship with a narcissistic guy for several years. These people aren't necessarily the abusive ogres that we like to depict them as when we talk about narcissism on here. They just don't have a strong core identity. If you spend long enough with them, you'll reach a point where you're baring your soul to them in an effort to connect properly - and they'll respond in a sad, helpless sort of way that tells you they really do wish they could give more. It's not that they necessarily want to hurt other people (in the way that a malignant narcissist does). They just don't have that inner spark. You can't ignite something that isn't there.

 

To Truthtripper...we've discussed before, on a different thread, narcissistic abuse. If I recall, I was quite sharp towards you for which I apologise. What I'm writing here is the explanation. I think you probably know many, many things about narcissism. Probably a lot more than I do. But I also believe I've learned a few things about it that you have yet to learn. That narcissists aren't always abusers of other people (or, if they are, only inasmuch as their abuse of themselves causes pain to other people).

 

There are nice, sweet people out there who are nonetheless narcissists. Who are no more curable than the malignant, deliberately abusive narcissist is. In both cases, it's essential to avoid taking personal responsibility for their condition - or to think that their refusal/inability to be "cured" is down to other people just not trying/loving enough.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Taramere

[truthtripper]

Sure they do. I know they do. The point is, they can die if we let them.

 

 

Yes, she does. Taramere's affection is what real love is. Helping hands and willing participants all gave genuine love, affection and consideration. She has shut the door on that, because she chooses to rely on the Past for her truth, rather than the present.

 

 

Yes, she does. Many people have attempted to SHOW her better. She has chosen to remain in self-willed ignorance.

(I hate to talk about Taramere's friend in this way, from a distant point, but we are discussing her as the only currently available focal point. I personally mean absolutely no disrespect at all, and hope Taramere takes no offence.)

 

 

Can I just ask, are we discussing a mental illness, which requires medical psychiatric and clinical evaluation and treatment, or a psychological condition, that need not necessarily necessitate a medical input?

 

ETA: "Conditioned". Interesting word, 'conditioned'. I use it a lot to illustrate learned behaviour. Humans are programmed to behave in certain ways. Conditioning is imposed. And can be un-imposed.

 

 

 

They don't need to. They simply need to observe how society in general, functions and treats its children.

 

 

I believe I have seen posts here describing a pattern of behaviour that a person pursued because AT THE TIME, they knew no other way, and thought that the learnt manner of behaviour/interaction was normal. On discovering that not all people did *this*, in fact it was rare and/or frowned upon, their behaviour altered, over varying periods of time...

 

People always, but always HAVE choices.

Many, however, either refuse to believe this, or feel they have only one.

The problem is that for many abused people, real love is a foreign concept, thus they naturally choose the path to destruction.

 

Abused people/people suffering from mental illness who want to heal need the assistance of insightful therapists-people who have done a lot of work on themselves and are highly self-aware who can guide them through their childhood memories. A severely abused person cannot simply learn from observing the workings of society in general. Their subconscious programming is far too ingrained.

 

Re mental illness, there is no evidence which shows that it is genetic. However there is extensive evidence indicating that mental illness is more likely to be caused by environmental triggers.

[TaraMaiden2]

The problem is that for many abused people, real love is a foreign concept, thus they naturally choose the path to destruction.

 

Abused people/people suffering from mental illness who want to heal need the assistance of insightful therapists-people who have done a lot of work on themselves and are highly self-aware who can guide them through their childhood memories. A severely abused person cannot simply learn from observing the workings of society in general. Their subconscious programming is far too ingrained.

This is why I asked the question regarding which particular condition we are discussing, psychiatric/medical or psychological/non-medical....The two carry different degrees of effects upon the sufferer...

 

Re mental illness, there is no evidence which shows that it is genetic. However there is extensive evidence indicating that mental illness is more likely to be caused by environmental triggers.

 

...Sadly, even when the environment is changed and ameliorated for the better, the choices best choices are not made.....

[truthtripper]

Truthtripper talks about people facing up to their own demons and sharing in an effort to help the person. I've done that too. Sat and cried buckets about my own sh*t, her sh*t...about the thought of what all this must be doing to her mother. Her reaction will be to swallow, look a bit upset and say "sorry to upset you." She's a very sweet, nice person...but I think what people don't always realise is that narcissism comes in various forms. A person can be very sweet, nice and polite and still be narcissistic in terms of really not having any core sense of self

If she's not responsive to empathy, she really needs an insightful therapist learned on the topic of neuroplasticity. The neuroscientist Norman Doidge's research gives us hope.

[Taramere]

If she's not responsive to empathy, she really needs an insightful therapist learned on the topic of neuroplasticity. The neuroscientist Norman Doidge's research gives us hope.

 

I don't really know what else to say here. My friend has had this condition for many years. Hundreds of thousands of pounds will have been spent on the specialist help she has had. The issue is that she doesn't want to get better. Being treatment resistant is a core part of her identity. She has people in her life (her mother and various friends) who have encouraged her to try all sorts of therapies and alternative therapies.

 

She goes along with all these different things to please them...but inside remains this iron will that none of it will work. So those people who wanted to help her end up falling out with her, and joining the list of people she feels abandoned/let down by because, in her words, "they refuse to accept me as I am."

 

There comes a point when helpers and friends have to be aware of the risk that in their desperation to fix a person who is not motivated to be healed, they will become overly controlling. Which only contributes to the ongoing power struggle between helpers and the unwilling but increasingly dependent and institutionalised patient. You would be welcome, as anybody else would be, to attempt to help my friend. She goes along with suggestions to meet this or that person of skill. She'll talk very frankly and honestly about different difficult life experiences she's had and how it made her feel.

 

I think if you spent 5 hours with my friend, you would likely go through a rollercoaster of feeling extreme empathy, feeling sad for her, giving of yourself, using your insight and obtaining more, feeling that you were making important breakthroughs - getting a sense that she was opening up to you in a way that she wouldn't normally open up to people. Then after those many exhausting but at times quite rewarding feeling hours, she would inform you sweetly but sadly that she's already discussed all of it many times and that she just wants people around her to accept that this is her lifestyle choice.

 

At some point you would face the choice between

 

1. becoming angry and frustrated with her and walking away (as so many people have done)

 

2. Continuing in a state of denial (as her mother does) after the medical professionals have declared her treatment resistant, and pushing her along to various alternative therapists until she becomes too physically weak (from starving herself) to engage with any of them

 

3. Accepting the reality that "she doesn't want to be helped", and all anybody can really offer her opportunities to be less isolated in her final months.

 

This might sound terrible to you, but I'm comfortable with choosing number three. I think of the three options it is the kindest and most realistic one.

[truthtripper]

 

To Truthtripper...we've discussed before, on a different thread, narcissistic abuse. If I recall, I was quite sharp towards you for which I apologise.

I don't recall anyone being harsh to me on LS. If it did happen, I either didn't perceive it as harsh or I've forgotten. Thanks for the apology anyway-although I suspect you may be confusing me with another poster.

[truthtripper]

This is why I asked the question regarding which particular condition we are discussing, psychiatric/medical or psychological/non-medical....The two carry different degrees of effects upon the sufferer...

.

From what I have observed and learnt throughout my life, I think all mental illness(if the person hasn't suffered some kind of brain injury)is caused by emotional trauma. Some people can easily make connections between their emotional upset and their trauma, while others either can't remember their trauma or are in denial about it and are subsequently labelled as 'mentally ill'. I have always had an interest in this particular topic, as my dad who has schizophrenia, cannot remember his sexual abuse by his uncle(his sister witnessed his abuse). His current psychiatrist thinks my dad's hallucinations are a product of repressed memories of abuse.

[Quest]

Do you know if he was abused in childhood? Family and friends and society in general for that matter, are usually not able to cope with this reality and will naturally avoid the topic. Denial is easier. So the only way the abused person can socially fit in and be accepted is by putting up a facade to their pain. The resulting isolation can give rise to suicide.

 

Child abuse is more common than most would expect. It occurs in every family to varying degrees and many people are in denial about their own abuse, which can also lead to 'unexplained' inner turmoil and suicide.

 

Truthtripper, I really don't know if he was abused in childhood. I do know he had a difficult childhood. His parents split up and the family kind of disintegrated after the children left home, all living very separate lives and not meeting up often, or at all really. He just seemed to lose hope after some big personal disappointments and began drinking heavily, or so I'm told. But the disintegration of the family - he was the youngest - probably hit him hard and he was likely carrying that around with him too. And for all he had so much talent and potential it didn't seem to matter to him and perhaps didn't make up for these losses. Just so sad.

[Quest]

From what I have observed and learnt throughout my life, I think all mental illness(if the person hasn't suffered some kind of brain injury)is caused by emotional trauma. Some people can easily make connections between their emotional upset and their trauma, while others either can't remember their trauma or are in denial about it and are subsequently labelled as 'mentally ill'. I have always had an interest in this particular topic, as my dad who has schizophrenia, cannot remember his sexual abuse by his uncle(his sister witnessed his abuse). His current psychiatrist thinks my dad's hallucinations are a product of repressed memories of abuse.

 

I don't know if all mental illness is the result of emotional trauma, if not prompted by some kind of brain injury. But I certainly agree that some of it is. Like you, I've seen that 'connection' in others, including a link between schizophrenia and repressed memories of abuse.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

I didnt read everything, but the best thing ive done for myself being suicidal is just recognizing it and not allowing an easy means of doing it into your home. For example, i come from a gun toting family. Seems every member of my extended family owns at least one gun. I know without a doubt in my mind if someone gave me a gun as a gift or something, and i were stupid enough to accept the gift, I wouldnt last 3 months. Zero doubt in my mind i would use it on myself. Zero doubt. Its a blessing it takes a while to purchase a gun too. If i could just walk in a store at any time and purchase a gun, again zero doubt i would already be dead.

 

I dont keep pills in the house either. I keep about 10 advil for headaches, and thats it. Any painless means of offing myself is a danger to keep in my house. Its another blessing im fearful of pain. I couldnt imagine inflicting pain on myself. So that is my other saving grace.

 

Have to be aware of your feelings at the best of times, to protect yourself from yourself during the bad times. Cause at the worst of times, there is really nothing anyone can say to convince me im worthwhile and not a complete cancer on those around me, that everyone would be better off without me.

 

 

To answer the OP, who knows? I was always taught that suicide doesnt get you in to heaven. I dont think that goes along with the teachings of an all loving god though. I will say if there is a god, and he/she/it made me the way I am, im not a huge fan of his/hers/it tbh.

[Robert Z]

I didnt read everything, but the best thing ive done for myself being suicidal is just recognizing it and not allowing an easy means of doing it into your home. For example, i come from a gun toting family. Seems every member of my extended family owns at least one gun. I know without a doubt in my mind if someone gave me a gun as a gift or something, and i were stupid enough to accept the gift, I wouldnt last 3 months. Zero doubt in my mind i would use it on myself. Zero doubt. Its a blessing it takes a while to purchase a gun too. If i could just walk in a store at any time and purchase a gun, again zero doubt i would already be dead.

 

You could drive into a tree, jump off a bridge, asphyxiate yourself using your car... if you really wanted to die you would have no problem finding a way. I've been there. If you can't find a way you don't want to. So I suggest that you try being honest with yourself. You don't want to die. That is why you're still here.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

She goes along with all these different things to please them...but inside remains this iron will that none of it will work. So those people who wanted to help her end up falling out with her, and joining the list of people she feels abandoned/let down by because, in her words, "they refuse to accept me as I am.

 

This sounds familiar. I recently started a suicide thread asking if it were normal to have suicidal thoughts. My wife was/is scared for me, never knew i have always been suicidal, or had extreme suicidal thoughts enough to fear for my own safety and take protective measures against myself. I went to therapy for her, not for me. I lasted two sessions before i confessed ill never be able to open up to that guy and seriously doubt my ability to open up to anyone. So i stopped going. I will only ever project an image to him of what i am. Never being fully truthful with him. Which is a waste of both of our time really.

 

You mentioned sense of self. There is no sense of self with me. Im a projection of what i feel i need to be in any given situation. The results are that my life is meaningless as i have no self worth. Im who i need to be for others, not for myself. I can be any number of people any given day. Perhaps that IS who I am. One big fake person. Just an actor, playing the rolls given to me. Ive played them well up until last year. My ability to be happy in my rolls has vanished. Now im left wondering who i am, why im here, what purpose do i serve in life, what is happiness anyway? It seems im searching for that new exciting roll to play, but I know deep down it wont ever come. The only thing i havent tried is to just be me, learn who that is first, and try to find happiness within myself. But there is only disgust there. A constant comparison in which I never live up to anyones expectations, especially my own. Weather or not the expectations of others exist is another question im scared to face. Maybe Im so busy projecting my own expectations of myself on others. But i know this, I cant imagine letting another person down, i hate it! HATE IT!! And when my act is off, others realize it and ask if something is wrong or if im ok. So i have to keep going. I cant let others see who i really am. How could anyone love me, or have admiration for me, or care about me in any form as my true self? I dont see it, I am who people think i am. I am who i need to be for those people. Dont mistake it, nobody really needs me, and i realize that, but at the same time they do you know? Life would go on for others without me, no doubt. But i need to be there for others, and I need to be whatever it is i need to be for them.

 

Sounds narcissistic right? I see where you bring this up. My deep desire to feel needed is about me, not about others actually needing me. So sick of myself sometimes (read always). I can see my faults, I just dont have any ability or self discipline or strength to face it. So i continue down this path. If im good enough for others, perhaps some day ill be good enough for myself. Insanity right? Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results. My insanity introduced depression, and that same insanity only fuels it now even further. A spiraling out into the land of self hatred and disgust. More suicidal thoughts then ever before. A strong desire for my life to just end at the hands of fate, to scared to take matters into my own hands, or too smart? Idk. I like to think to weak to do it myself. Passive aggressive self destruction is my meathod. Dont take care of myself. Starting to drink like crazy... Every chance i get. Nearly always high on weed, although this actually helps a little with the depression, the alcohol mixed takes that away. Smoke cigs again, no attempt to quit anymore, never work out, horrible eating habits. Whatever kills me, or shortens my life is welcome. Id be shocked if i make it to 40yrs old continuing down this path...

 

Strange how so many people here are suffering in their relationships. I have a caring and loving wife. Two extremely smart and healthy kids. A home, cars, money in the bank, the same things so many people are searching for or struggling with in their lifes. I have it, it doesnt bring happiness for the record. Happiness truly comes from within. I only see disgust and weakness and cowardice and a sad pathetic excuse for a human when i look within. There is no happiness there. Only thing i can be is an actor, play my rolls to the best of my ability to try and bring some sort of happiness to others. When there is peace and harmony and love all around me, that is when i feel most content. Especially if i had a roll in providing that peace and happiness in others regardless of what it might cost me.

 

Long ass ramble over now...

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

You could drive into a tree, jump off a bridge, asphyxiate yourself using your car... if you really wanted to die you would have no problem finding a way. I've been there. If you can't find a way you don't want to. So I suggest that you try being honest with yourself. You don't want to die. That is why you're still here.

 

All those ways arent a guarantee i would die. The car one ive thought about though. Very painless. Dry ice is another. Carbon monoxide poisoning has always been a consideration, but again allows for too much time to rethink things. I have to keep away from quick things. Like a gun, or a bottle of pills where i just swallow them all and there is no chance of undoing it. I know there are times I want to live. But they are becoming less and less. Reality is im to chicken **** to do a lot of things. Pulling a trigger on myself seems so easy and quick and painless. Pull my finger in one direction and its over. I know i can do that. I would have the strength to do that one. Its just so easy to do on impulse.

[BetheButterfly]

When a person commits suicide, how would God handle them and where would their soul go?

 

Great question. I don't know.

 

Interestingly, suicide is not specifically dubbed a sin in the Bible, unless one interprets "do not kill" to include not killing yourself.

 

Samson killed himself while killing Phillistines. He prayed before doing so. Judges does not mention what happened to his spirit/soul after his body died. Judges does mention that his family buried him.

 

King Saul killed himself too. However, he was not in good standing with God since he kept disobeying God. That's why God had Samuel anoint David as king.

 

I'm not sure if there are other people accounted in the Bible who committed suicide?

 

However, the common belief among Christians is that suicide is disobeying the thou shalt not kill command. Interestingly, many Christians don't believe it's wrong to kill enemies. If a person is one's own enemy, then what?

 

Personally, I believe that it is wrong to kill anybody. I don't know what God does with those who kill themselves. I do believe God knows each and every person and decides what to do with each person's soul/spirit by using many factors - a special equation of sorts for each person depending on what they know and their circumstances.

 

For anyone contemplating suicide, I highly recommend them to get help so that they can enjoy life without killing themselves or anybody else. Life is a gift and suicide is robbing the most precious gift from oneself.

[BetheButterfly]

All those ways arent a guarantee i would die. The car one ive thought about though. Very painless. Dry ice is another. Carbon monoxide poisoning has always been a consideration, but again allows for too much time to rethink things. I have to keep away from quick things. Like a gun, or a bottle of pills where i just swallow them all and there is no chance of undoing it. I know there are times I want to live. But they are becoming less and less. Reality is im to chicken **** to do a lot of things. Pulling a trigger on myself seems so easy and quick and painless. Pull my finger in one direction and its over. I know i can do that. I would have the strength to do that one. Its just so easy to do on impulse.

 

 

Instead of thinking about killing yourself, why not use your life in a way to help others? If you don't want your life anymore, why not live to help others instead of think about robbing yourself of life? There are so many people who die who would give anything for one more minute, yet you have life and can help people by choosing to live your life for others instead of for yourself.