Why won't he propose?

[Clarence_Boddicker]

I didn't read all.

 

 

Move out (don't break up or use the space excuse) & don't let him come over more than a few times a week. Tell him you want a firm wedding date or you need to end things. If he loves you, he'll set a date. If not, he wont. 7 years is too long to still be waiting. He's comfortable & you're not. It's up to you to change things.

[toolforgrowth]

I find that many people are quick to jump into other peoples' psychology on this forum, and to suggest drastic action. I recommend making sure your needs and desires for marriage are 100% transparent to your husband, and as another poster said explain that you are at an important crossroads where you have to make decisions. This is how you establish your boundary.

 

Then it is up to you to enforce your boundary whatever that means. Which if he cannot support you in that, would mean walking away from things.

 

This right here.

 

I'm completely transparent about my desire to never marry and the fact I can't have any more kids. I'm one of those divorce horror story statistics. So as a man, I view marriage as a direct threat to my assets and stability.

 

And I've found a plethora of women who are still willing to date me in that context.

 

To me, marriage is only a piece of paper. All it does is allow the person I'm with to get their hands on my money and assets in the event of a divorce. If everything else in the relationship is great, there are no fights, sex is good, you enjoy shared activities, no infidelity, etc., then why the push for marriage?

 

I'm not saying the OP is trying to get her hands on his money. But as a guy who's been through that before, the thought would certainly cross my mind.

 

Many people have amazing relationships and families without getting married. If that piece of paper is a must-have, then you need to end the relationship. That way he can find a woman who doesn't need marriage to be happy, and you can find a man willing to walk down the aisle.

[newmoon]

This right here.

 

If everything else in the relationship is great, there are no fights, sex is good, you enjoy shared activities, no infidelity, etc., then why the push for marriage?

 

 

because, within a marriage you work towards common goals, and 'your money' and 'your assets' become shared resources. you stop the selfish thinking. it's not one person contributing, it's two, so someone else will bring their money and assets to the table as well. your divorce obviously soured you on marriage and perspective. in any event, it's important to her and she needs a like-minded guy.

[toolforgrowth]

because, within a marriage you work towards common goals, and 'your money' and 'your assets' become shared resources. you stop the selfish thinking. it's not one person contributing, it's two, so someone else will bring their money and assets to the table as well. your divorce obviously soured you on marriage and perspective. in any event, it's important to her and she needs a like-minded guy.

 

You hit it precisely on the head. "My" money becomes "our" money. This explains why marriage is something women still want, and is also exactly why more and more men aren't getting married anymore.

 

No woman is entitled to the money I earn. She can earn her own money.

 

A woman who will end an otherwise great relationship simply because her SO doesn't want to get married is after the entitlement to his assets the marriage will give her.

[salparadise]

Then it is up to you to enforce your boundary whatever that means. Which if he cannot support you in that, would mean walking away from things.

OP, if he were to suddenly propose it would probably just be because you had to insist on wanting marriage and kids but you'll live with the fact that he wouldn't have ever done it on his own free will.

 

 

If I were a woman in this situation I don't think I'd be at all happy about having to twist his arm. And like someone else said, even if he does propose how long is he going to try and drag it out... and will he actually go through with it?

 

Seven years is a long damn time. How much longer are you willing to wait? And if he finally agrees begrudgingly, how is that going to make you feel?

 

A woman I dated over a year ago spent ten years with a man who strung her along as long as possible, finally agreed to marry her, and then dumped her a month before the wedding. She was devastated.

 

Now I realize that being in love with the guy and having seven years invested creates a certain reluctance to walk, but realistically you only have two other options, neither of them desirable: a) forget about ever being married, or b) try and force him to do it against his will.

 

Moving out and getting your own place is the assertive move here. If he wants you he will change his tune and come after you, and you can date him and decide if that's good enough. Otherwise, you will have extricated yourself from this position of zero power and taken the first step on your journey of self determination.

 

It pisses me off to see men do this to women... unless they were clear from the outset that they weren't interested in marriage, in which case it's really on her.

[Got it]

You hit it precisely on the head. "My" money becomes "our" money. This explains why marriage is something women still want, and is also exactly why more and more men aren't getting married anymore.

 

No woman is entitled to the money I earn. She can earn her own money.

 

A woman who will end an otherwise great relationship simply because her SO doesn't want to get married is after the entitlement to his assets the marriage will give her.

 

I completely disagree. I wanted to marry my first husband because that is what we had planned to do but he wasn't proposing (started dating at 17, finally got engaged at 24.) He had no real money, we both worked jobs that paid okay but nothing stellar. But I wanted to make that progression. And so it was becoming a cross roads for us.

 

In my marriage now, the game plan was always marriage. Not because I needed his money, resources, etc. in fact he was the bigger gamble coming in and I was the one with the assets, monies, etc. But because for me that is how a relationship needs to progress. It needs to become marriage, one, that we are tied together in that manner. Because that is what I decided was important for my romantic and familial relationships. In fact, both men are not ones that would stay in a relationship that didn't end up in marriage. Marriage is/was important to both have them and their patterns show this (ex remarried shortly after the divorce).

 

So, yes, I would throw out a good relationship as not marrying at that time would have been a deal breaker. Has nothing from wanting some financial items from him. And it is greatly shortchanging women to broad brush them all in that manner.

[d0nnivain]

A woman who will end an otherwise great relationship simply because her SO doesn't want to get married is after the entitlement to his assets the marriage will give her.

 

Not necessarily. When I broke up with my EX after 11 years my assets were probably 2x his & believe me, both were substantial.

 

I wanted a home and family. Money I can always get without a man. When DH & I got married we signed a pre-nup to protect my assets; he didn't have any at the time.

 

Not every woman who wants marriage is a gold digger.

[salparadise]

A good friend of mine was mid-twenties and dating a young woman about the same age. I guess they had been dating two years or a little more. One day he asked me to talk and told me that she had told him.... "I intend to be married and have two kids by the time I'm 30, and I need to know if it's going to be you."

 

I admired her for that. I said, if you love her then marry her. She's the real deal and your ass will be lucky to have her. He married her, and she is the real deal.

[Michelle ma Belle]

I'm with the group that says you're wasting your time waiting for this man to marry you.

 

It's crystal clear that this guy does NOT want to marry you for whatever reason. Given that he's in his forties and quite settled in his life and routines including you, why would he feel a need to put-a-ring-on-it unless he's doing it to end the relentless inquiries?

 

And if that's the case, do you really want to marry someone you had to convince to marry you?

 

I know I certainly wouldn't want to. Marriage is hard at the best of times never mind marrying under pressure or an ultimatum.

 

You talk about being with someone who is over the moon in love with you and who wants to take that next step with you by proposing marriage but here's the kicker...that guy might NOT be YOUR guy. He's kept you on the hook for 6 years flopping between marrying you "someday" to not ever being sure he wants to marry at all.

 

I'm not saying he doesn't love you or cherish you or your time together but for some people marriage is NOT an obvious next step or an effective way to prove one's love and commitment in a relationship.

 

You're young and it's perfectly natural to want marriage and the whole package but if things are going well and you're both relatively content and secure in your relationship, you may have to ask yourself what's most important? The marriage or the man?

 

Good luck.

[BluEyeL]

After 7 years and becoming clear that he doesn't want marriage or children, the wisest thing you could do, albeit very hard, is to leave immediately! If you leave now, you still have a good chance to find someone else to love and have the family you desire. If you wait longer, you will regret it! Stand up for yourself and walk away if he doesn't want what you want. Love that is one sided like that will end up in resentment and you'll still break up but when you're 40 and spent and with no hope to have children and a family.

[dragon_fly_7]

Tell him you want a firm wedding date or you need to end things. If he loves you, he'll set a date. If not, he wont. 7 years is too long to still be waiting. He's comfortable & you're not. It's up to you to change things.

I can't imagine what type of woman would want to marry someone they had to give an ultimatum or convince him to get marry instead of it being a mutual experience both are excited about and the guy can't wait for that big day, something so natural.

 

OP, follow BluEyeL's advice and if he suddenly comes back and changes his mind after you left him, don't take him back. Move on and go seek for a guy wanting your same life goals.

Edited October 7, 2015 by dragon_fly_7

[toolforgrowth]

I completely disagree. I wanted to marry my first husband because that is what we had planned to do but he wasn't proposing (started dating at 17, finally got engaged at 24.) He had no real money, we both worked jobs that paid okay but nothing stellar. But I wanted to make that progression. And so it was becoming a cross roads for us.

 

In my marriage now, the game plan was always marriage. Not because I needed his money, resources, etc. in fact he was the bigger gamble coming in and I was the one with the assets, monies, etc. But because for me that is how a relationship needs to progress. It needs to become marriage, one, that we are tied together in that manner. Because that is what I decided was important for my romantic and familial relationships. In fact, both men are not ones that would stay in a relationship that didn't end up in marriage. Marriage is/was important to both have them and their patterns show this (ex remarried shortly after the divorce).

 

So, yes, I would throw out a good relationship as not marrying at that time would have been a deal breaker. Has nothing from wanting some financial items from him. And it is greatly shortchanging women to broad brush them all in that manner.

 

Then what is it that marriage provides you? What is it about that piece of paper that is so important to you?

 

I'm not saying your intentions were financial. I'm just simply curious.

[perol]

I have had several conversations with him about how important it is to me to be married and how I want a long term monogamous relationship with someone who I love and loves me, and marriage is a symbol of that.

 

He's a smart guy, he knows most marriages fail, and it's a gamble with losing odds that he's not willing to take. He's read about guys who have been kicked out of their homes by cheating wives who lose everything they've built to that point- and he doesn't want to become a statistic. There's nothing about your relationship that's any different from all of those failed marriages - they all started great with love and all of that too.

 

Marriage is NOT a symbol of anything other than a failed concept that causes nothing but aggravation and pain more often than not.

 

Don't ruin a good thing by pushing for something that is completely unnecessary. More and more people are satisfied with being domestic partners and never exchanging vows, for good reason.

[Got it]

Then what is it that marriage provides you? What is it about that piece of paper that is so important to you?

 

I'm not saying your intentions were financial. I'm just simply curious.

 

Tool, you see women as lesser beings, we got it.

[dragon_fly_7]

Then what is it that marriage provides you? What is it about that piece of paper that is so important to you?

 

I'm not saying your intentions were financial. I'm just simply curious.

Not everyone is happy being in childfree or casual relationship for years. I think this is coming mainly from a man that doesn't even want kids either.

 

I really can careless about a guy's money. That wouldn't be the reason I would want to spend time with someone. I would be seeking for someone with like-minded goals and whom I might one day form a family.

[salparadise]

Then what is it that marriage provides you? What is it about that piece of paper that is so important to you?

 

 

I'm not Got it, obviously, but trying to characterize marriage as nothing more than a piece of paper is being intentionally obtuse.

 

People who say it's nothing but a piece of paper are really saying, yea I'm all in, sort of, but I hope you don't mind if I keep one foot out the door. A literal application of the infamous remark... all they want is a tight pussy, loose shoes, and a warm place to sh*t.

 

People seeking the deepest possible intimacy understand that it's simply not achievable while holding something back.

 

Some might say but we made a promise, so we're committed; why do we need a piece of paper. I say, well, if that's the case then why not?

[bluefeather]

If you think of marriage as a piece of paper, I would say that is a good reason not to get married. But for some people, marriage means so much more. And I'm NOT talking about money.

[toolforgrowth]

Tool, you see women as lesser beings, we got it.

 

Incorrect. I asked a question in the hopes of receiving a legitimate answer. Your deflection, however, is noteworthy.

[toolforgrowth]

I'm not Got it, obviously, but trying to characterize marriage as nothing more than a piece of paper is being intentionally obtuse.

 

People who say it's nothing but a piece of paper are really saying, yea I'm all in, sort of, but I hope you don't mind if I keep one foot out the door. A literal application of the infamous remark... all they want is a tight pussy, loose shoes, and a warm place to sh*t.

 

People seeking the deepest possible intimacy understand that it's simply not achievable while holding something back.

 

Some might say but we made a promise, so we're committed; why do we need a piece of paper. I say, well, if that's the case then why not?

 

How is it obtuse? In what way does marriage improve a relationship?

 

One glance at modern divorce statistics show that even married people have "one foot out the door". Marriage is by no means an indicator of one's level of commitment or fidelity.

 

Going through an ancient ritual does not draw people together by itself, nor does marriage suddenly make relationships better. If it did, divorce wouldn't exist.

 

So I ask again: If marriage is more than a piece of paper, what benefits does it being and why should one voluntarily enter into it? Especially if everything is fine exactly as they are right now?

 

You think I attack women. That couldn't be further from the truth. I attack the institution of marriage and the concept that it is somehow indicative of a person's level of commitment.

[toolforgrowth]

He's a smart guy, he knows most marriages fail, and it's a gamble with losing odds that he's not willing to take. He's read about guys who have been kicked out of their homes by cheating wives who lose everything they've built to that point- and he doesn't want to become a statistic. There's nothing about your relationship that's any different from all of those failed marriages - they all started great with love and all of that too.

 

Marriage is NOT a symbol of anything other than a failed concept that causes nothing but aggravation and pain more often than not.

 

Don't ruin a good thing by pushing for something that is completely unnecessary. More and more people are satisfied with being domestic partners and never exchanging vows, for good reason.

 

Seriously, this right here.

 

"I'm going to end an otherwise great relationship because you won't legally bind yourself to me and perform an ancient ritual."

 

I find it funny that they accuse us of having one foot out the door because we don't want to marry, yet they're the ones who suggest the relationship be ended because of it.

[d0nnivain]

"I'm going to end an otherwise great relationship because you won't legally bind yourself to me and perform an ancient ritual."

 

I find it funny that they accuse us of having one foot out the door because we don't want to marry, yet they're the ones who suggest the relationship be ended because of it.

 

Some people derive comfort & a sense of security from rituals, no matter how ancient. I know I do.

 

So if I want marriage & my partner doesn't, we're at an impasse. So I can either get over it or he can. If neither of us is willing to budge then we are fundamentally incompatible which is the antithesis of an "otherwise great relationship."

 

My long time EX gave me the it's just a piece of paper BS for years. Now having been married, I can't really explain it but it's so much more than a piece of paper. The act of saying those words of professing our love & commitment in a formal way was profound. At this point, I'm not even sure I can find the stupid piece of paper. However I cherish my marital vows & strive to honor them daily.

[JasmineJones]

He doesn't want to marry you.

[ManyDissapoint]

Not necessarily. When I broke up with my EX after 11 years my assets were probably 2x his & believe me, both were substantial.

 

I wanted a home and family. Money I can always get without a man. When DH & I got married we signed a pre-nup to protect my assets; he didn't have any at the time.

 

Not every woman who wants marriage is a gold digger.

 

But you got a pre nup though. OP, maybe suggesting a pre nup would assuage his fears?

[ManyDissapoint]

He doesn't want to marry you.

 

I would dislike this post if I could. You don't know what this man is thinking.

 

The way you expressed this sentiment is caustic in my opinion. It sounds if anything that this man doesn't want to marry, not that he doesn't want to marry HER.

 

It's possible that he still doesn't understand how important it is to her. Yeah, he could be dense as a brick. But it happens.

[loveflower]

He doesn't want to marry you.

 

simple as that.

 

Recommend the book : "he is just not that into you"

 

I find it enlightening.

Edited October 8, 2015 by loveflower