Hoping to stop the downhill plunge.... Update.

[autumnnight]

The way it was written, it sounded like you were saying the man couldn't just NOT try to have sex with her.

 

And in many cases, the woman just wants to know that the man CAN keep his hands off her for awhile, so she's not just a vessel to him. If that happens, her heart can warm back up for him and then she may be more willing and enthusiastic. But if he can't even go one day without touching? Not likely.

 

That would make sense.

 

Since touch/affection is my primary love language, it is hard to wrap my mind around not wanting to be touched. But my oldest, for example, is very leery of being touched, even by family. I could see her needing her hubby to be hands-off if she was feeling overwhelmed. Sometimes I have to be reminded that not everyone is in my shoes.

[xxoo]

This all sounds like positive progress to me. I think you're totally doing the right thing by letting her initiate right now, not putting any pressure on her.

 

She's lamented her loss of drive, ordered the estrogen cream, and is starting to initiate. She's trying, she's doing the best she can right now.

 

I agree that you'll be better off focusing on all these positives for now, instead of comparing it to your gold standard from the past. Hopefully these little positives will keep adding up and you'll keep making good progress.

 

I agree.

 

Focus on the positive. You have a loving, caring wife who concerns herself with connecting with you sexually. You are a lucky man, and have much to be thankful for. A loving wife, great kids, intact family--you're rich!

[OldRover]

The way it was written, it sounded like you were saying the man couldn't just NOT try to have sex with her; it didn't say anything about divorce.

 

And in many cases, the woman just wants to know that the man CAN keep his hands off her for awhile, so she's not just a vessel to him. If that happens, her heart can warm back up for him and then she may be more willing and enthusiastic. But if he can't even go one day without touching? Not likely.

 

I'm in the same boat as AutumnNight..... I'm a touch person.... and I don't touch her every day, I touch her several times per day. But I try to make it good for her every time. Might be a shoulder rub, neck rub, hug, hand hold, grab her leg... or enough grabbing so we end up in bed. However, it never ends in bed unless we both want that.

 

But, we full fill both of our love languages.

 

I hope Old Shirt fills his and her love languages, too. It works.

[turnera]

I'm in the same boat as AutumnNight..... I'm a touch person.... and I don't touch her every day, I touch her several times per day. But I try to make it good for her every time. Might be a shoulder rub, neck rub, hug, hand hold, grab her leg... or enough grabbing so we end up in bed. However, it never ends in bed unless we both want that.

 

But, we full fill both of our love languages.

 

I hope Old Shirt fills his and her love languages, too. It works.

lol, my love language is a nice home. I don't mean fancy, I mean well taken care of. Growing up, after my dad left, our house fell apart and my mom couldn't afford to take care of anything; she could barely afford food. It was one long childhood of humiliations. And just my luck, taking care of the house (if it's ME asking for it) is the ONE thing my H has never wanted to do. No woman would be the boss of him!

 

As Harley says, your top needs (love languages) vary according to the state of your marriage. So domestic security has been my #1 need for the full 35 years of my marriage.

 

Of course, if he were to suddenly wake up and care about it, my top needs would shift. And, of course, my love for and desire for him would skyrocket.

[Realist3]

tmi ten chara...

[oldshirt]

Ok so time for another update. It's been a few weeks since I started this little endeavor so I thought I'd share what's happened over the last week or two and talk a little about what's coming up.

 

For starters I've hit the gym harder and more consistently in the last few weeks than I have the last few years. Cleaned up the diet to the point I haven't had any junk or processed food at all for several days which is a record for me. I am down a few lbs and while I'm technically still on the same belt notch, it is noticeably looser and I should be on the next notch by this time next week.

 

I have also started tanning which she finally noticed and commented on last night.

 

I haven't initiate or brought up anything sexual since the start. We havent had any sexual encounters since she initiated last Sat, but if she ever reached out for a hug or smack or anything I have always responded without hesitation.

 

Her demeanor has been pleasant and hasn't seemed anxious or defensive.

 

Ok so here is what's coming up. Tomorrow we will celebrate our 20th anniversary. I have reserved a theme room with an in room Jacuzzi at a local hotel and have planned for a nice sit down lunch at a fine dining restaurant. I have told her a very vague General plan of the day but the specifics are to be a surprise.

 

She has seemed to be looking forward to our day together and when she asked what she needs to do to prepare I told her to dress up for a nice restaurants and to pack a swimsuit, some wine and something "slinky" for after lunch.

 

She has not seemed to protest any of this and in fact reminded me that one of our anniversary traditions is to go to an adult bookstore to purchase new sex toys or lubes etc.

 

I took that as a positive sign. :-)

 

 

More to come soon

....

[turnera]

Definitely positive!

[oldshirt]

So tomorrow I will be seductive and taking the lead and seeing how that goes.

I will be initiating or at least doing my best to initiate.

 

Assuming we do make love (which isn't guarenteed and I'll be as calm and outcome independent as possible if we don't) the one thing I will try to address is the afterplay which I described in my "afterplay" thread in the sexuality section.

 

I think tomorrow will reveal some signs as to where things are. If we have some good romantic and sexy time on this special occasion without any awkwardness or conflict, that will be telling.

 

If she stalls and fiddlefarts around and is hamstrung by a myriad of distractions and other things that have to be done instead, that will be even more telling.

 

Regardless of which way the pendulum swings, I will have a lot more insight by Wednesday.

[S2B]

Ok so time for another update. It's been a few weeks since I started this little endeavor so I thought I'd share what's happened over the last week or two and talk a little about what's coming up.

 

For starters I've hit the gym harder and more consistently in the last few weeks than I have the last few years. Cleaned up the diet to the point I haven't had any junk or processed food at all for several days which is a record for me. I am down a few lbs and while I'm technically still on the same belt notch, it is noticeably looser and I should be on the next notch by this time next week.

 

I have also started tanning which she finally noticed and commented on last night.

 

I haven't initiate or brought up anything sexual since the start. We havent had any sexual encounters since she initiated last Sat, but if she ever reached out for a hug or smack or anything I have always responded without hesitation.

 

Her demeanor has been pleasant and hasn't seemed anxious or defensive.

 

Ok so here is what's coming up. Tomorrow we will celebrate our 20th anniversary. I have reserved a theme room with an in room Jacuzzi at a local hotel and have planned for a nice sit down lunch at a fine dining restaurant. I have told her a very vague General plan of the day but the specifics are to be a surprise.

 

She has seemed to be looking forward to our day together and when she asked what she needs to do to prepare I told her to dress up for a nice restaurants and to pack a swimsuit, some wine and something "slinky" for after lunch.

 

She has not seemed to protest any of this and in fact reminded me that one of our anniversary traditions is to go to an adult bookstore to purchase new sex toys or lubes etc.

 

I took that as a positive sign. :-)

 

 

More to come soon

....

 

You seem to contradict yourself...

 

You state that you have no expectations yet you're blatantly 'planning' your sex with her for the anniversary.

 

Just saying... Your expectation is sex. Looks like she will comply... As you've mapped out the day for her.

 

 

I hope you get what you expect.

[OldRover]

You seem to contradict yourself...

 

You state that you have no expectations yet you're blatantly 'planning' your sex with her for the anniversary.

 

Just saying... Your expectation is sex. Looks like she will comply... As you've mapped out the day for her.

 

 

I hope you get what you expect.

 

Good point, but it still may be positive without the sex. But a real wonderful passionate love session can't hurt much, and is VERY positive.

[oldshirt]

You seem to contradict yourself...

 

You state that you have no expectations yet you're blatantly 'planning' your sex with her for the anniversary.

 

Just saying... Your expectation is sex. Looks like she will comply... As you've mapped out the day for her.

 

 

I hope you get what you expect.

 

I am optimistic and hopeful.

 

Remember as I said in the beginning of this thread, this is not a case of a sexless marriage. She rarely rejects me. We would have sex on average of every week. We would have sex when I made a definite initiation, it was just the quality leaves a bit to be desired.

 

I haven't initiated in approx 4 weeks. She initiated an encounter last weekend and initiated it between the boobs but not intercourse the weekend before that.

 

So I have reason to be hopeful for tomorrow. but if she balks or stalls or makes any kind of hard no, I have back up plans.

 

So how about if I word it that I do expect some kind sexual contact will occur, but I recognize the possibility that it may not. It that a better way to put it without seeming to contradict myself?

[S2B]

Good point, but it still may be positive without the sex. But a real wonderful passionate love session can't hurt much, and is VERY positive.

 

Yes, absolutely!

 

I'm just pointing out how OS continues to say "I won't pressure her, I'll let her lead, I have no expectations" - yet this IS planned and certainly has expectations attached.

 

The other thing that seems odd to me, I know OS wants the sex - seems to also want intimacy - but hasn't yet described how those two become intertwined within the M.

 

Intimacy is nice. Sex is nice. OP is looking for both but unable to determine what intimacy looks like for him.

 

When he says he wants sex - but doesn't get that he complains. Then he gets sex and complains that it doesn't include the intimacy.

 

When do the complaints stop? What is it you really want?

 

Whatever that is be clear about what you want and need. Staying silent and expecting your wife to read your mind isn't right.

 

It actually looks like you just want reasons to be mad at her. Where does it end? When you get sex? When you get intimacy? When you get both?

 

I can't tell - please clarify because I feel like you keep changing the rules here for yourself.

[turnera]

S2B, normally I'd agree with you, but this IS an anniversary event, and people generally want to ramp things up on such dates.

[qubist]

first of all happy anniversary!!

the thing that I like the most about your "experiment" is it made you look out for yourself, diet, exercise, at least you are a better man now before you tried this

[DKT3]

Yes, absolutely!

 

I'm just pointing out how OS continues to say "I won't pressure her, I'll let her lead, I have no expectations" - yet this IS planned and certainly has expectations attached.

 

The other thing that seems odd to me, I know OS wants the sex - seems to also want intimacy - but hasn't yet described how those two become intertwined within the M.

 

Intimacy is nice. Sex is nice. OP is looking for both but unable to determine what intimacy looks like for him.

 

When he says he wants sex - but doesn't get that he complains. Then he gets sex and complains that it doesn't include the intimacy.

 

When do the complaints stop? What is it you really want?

 

Whatever that is be clear about what you want and need. Staying silent and expecting your wife to read your mind isn't right.

 

It actually looks like you just want reasons to be mad at her. Where does it end? When you get sex? When you get intimacy? When you get both?

 

I can't tell - please clarify because I feel like you keep changing the rules here for yourself.

 

First I have to admit this has never been a problem for me. Lovin has a slightly higher sex drive and rarely has turned me down throughout our 25+ year history, so take my opinion with that in mind.

 

Oldshirt I think you have a great handle on this situation, and if I were ever in something similar I would follow this example.

 

 

S2B, I don't see an issue with what he is doing or his expectations. He has tried to communicate to her about what he NEEDS. I don't think she gets it because the walls come up making her less open to accept his views or feelings on the subject. It seems to me he simply wants what they had, its not like he is asking to rewrite the book.

 

No one (or very few of us) wants emotionless sex with our spouses. That is the element that makes it great. No one wants to feel like they have contaminated they spouse, watching them rush off to clean themselves the second the act is over as if he injected her with some radioactive waste.

 

Os, keep your head up I think your doing great.

[oldshirt]

Yes, absolutely!

 

I'm just pointing out how OS continues to say "I won't pressure her, I'll let her lead, I have no expectations" - yet this IS planned and certainly has expectations attached.

 

The other thing that seems odd to me, I know OS wants the sex - seems to also want intimacy - but hasn't yet described how those two become intertwined within the M.

 

Intimacy is nice. Sex is nice. OP is looking for both but unable to determine what intimacy looks like for him.

 

When he says he wants sex - but doesn't get that he complains. Then he gets sex and complains that it doesn't include the intimacy.

 

When do the complaints stop? What is it you really want?

 

Whatever that is be clear about what you want and need. Staying silent and expecting your wife to read your mind isn't right.

 

It actually looks like you just want reasons to be mad at her. Where does it end? When you get sex? When you get intimacy? When you get both?

 

I can't tell - please clarify because I feel like you keep changing the rules here for yourself.

 

I'm not sure I can say or do anything that will earn your blessings. We may simply be at an impasse here.

 

In regards to me initiating sexual activities on my 20th anniversary, sorry but I reserve the right to try to initiate sex with my wife whenever I want.

She has the right to initiate with me whenever she wants. That ain't ever gonna change.

 

I opted to suspend any sexual overtures or initiations for awhile to work on other areas of myself and our relationship before addressing the sexual topics. This was so as to not pressure her sexually or make her feel that everything I was doing was just about getting more sex.

 

I knew that some people would not agree with that strategy and I spent several pages trying to explain my rationale. Some still disagree. That's ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

When I said I would suspend sexual initiation for awhile, I never meant to imply that I never would ever again. I reserve the right to try to give her some lovins whenever I want.

 

I want to tomorrow and so I will. She has the right to either go for it and get loved up well or she has the right to blow me off completely and make it just another day.

 

Either way will provide insight into our dynamics.

[oldshirt]

 

 

He has tried to communicate to her about what he NEEDS. I don't think she gets it because the walls come up making her less open to accept his views or feelings on the subject.

 

 

.

 

Yes this is exactly it. I have tried to address a variety of things but her walls go up and all she thinks is that I am trying to get more sex and she doesn't hear what I'm actually saying.

 

I'm trying to take the sexual aspect out of the equation for awhile so she may be more apt to open her ears and hear what I'm actually saying.

 

However I am going to try to make our 20th as nice and fun and romantic and sexy as possible.

 

If anyone has an issue with that, too bad so sad.

[pteromom]

Good luck tomorrow. Hope it goes well.

[S2B]

I can understand you wanting sex in your anniversary and I certainly hope it goes well - or even better than you expect!

 

I just worry about 'expectations' mainly because it is always expectations that lead anyone to feel disappointed.

 

I hope your anniversary is everything you desire OS!

[veryhappy]

Of course you'll have anniversary sex! If she's complied all her life with you, why would she she do anything different on such a special, carefully planned occasion?

 

I commented on page 8, and I'm bringing it up as it looks that you respond to everyone in case you skipped it by mistake.

 

What kind of tanning are you doing?

[Lion Heart]

 

1. Our marriage is not in jeopardy at this time.

 

2. There are no threats or plans of divorce.

 

3. Now if I find out there is another man,

4. or if in 6 months I look like a hot hunk and

5. (If) I am the perfect husband and father and friend and

6. (If) I have expressed my desire for a more intimate relationship and

7. (If) she completely stiff arms me and wants nothing to do with that, it may (WILL!!!) be a different story.

 

8. But for now, there is no jeopardy.

 

Helloooo oldshirt,

 

I've come across this thread a few weeks late obviously because I have been completely gobsmacked by your approach. And I've tried to catch up and see where it's led you so far. I AM AFRAID for your M and, ofcourse, I'm not IN your M nor a fly on the wall during your interactions. I've always respected the opinions you've expressed on LS but this modus operandii of yours has taken me completely by surprise. It seems counter intuitive to how I think you actually are (on LS at least) and possibly how you are going about this something like a 'secret operation' when your W is unknowingly being tested and could be horribly blindsided. I would be VERY HAPPY to hear that I am wrong on all counts!

 

Before I go on Happy Anniversary to you both! XX

 

Allow me to address this particular post you made.

Sorry for the weird context - typing from my phone.

 

1. I think obviously your M IS in "jeopardy" at this time! Why on earth would you go to such lengths as to reflect and list in fine detail what YOU will change about yourself, with all the onus on your Ws reaction? You've clearly reached a brink of some type to spur on actions and changes but with the onus on HER. Unless you communicate WHY even to say "I'm making changes to myself to SHOW you how much I love you and to improve our M on all levels" then she may just see what YOU ARE doing as for you. My H made plenty of changes to HIS appearance and I never once thought it was for me, and I've been right all along! it was for him to spark interest from OW. I didn't know THAT but I definitely knew it wasn't for me.

 

2. Yes there is BECAUSE you keep reiterating IF I do (blah blah blah) and W does not respond in (blah blah blah) way, THEN I KNOW. KNOW what? I can see your predicament in that she's not a great communicator BUT you complain very little about that. Your complaints seem to be more about the sexual / intimate incompatibility growing you've recognized in the 'recent' past ie not from the beginning of the M? I'm not saying ANYONE should accept a no sex / no intimacy M. No! But from all your posts so far, alot of us would kill to have the ACTUAL LEVEL of sex AND intimacy you guys have. I think you are looking at this critical point of your relationship and saying "see??? Cup half EMPTY" when you could change your perspective and say "wow! Cup half full during menopause. How great is this! " IDK. And I get your love language is sex / intimacy. Mine too. I get that. It's the attitude you convey I am questioning. Does it benefit you..your attitude. (Yeah I'm a born optimist).

 

3. Sure. Affair as a deal breaker may need revisiting!

 

4. Good on you but your W may not care whether you look like a hunk or not. My H is just as hot in his worst state of personal maintenance (tho hygiene is important) as when he's all spruced up. My feelings are constant but that's just me.

 

5. I wrote IF because you are the ONLY one setting the list for this and checking it off yourself too. Ofcourse you're gonna get 100% on an exam you wrote AND marked yourself! Be a little fair and have Ws INPUT on the EXAM and the MARKING. Your list could be ENTIRELY different to hers. IDK.

 

6. IF here too. Still leads back to the fact that you're complaining about things IMO that you ALREADY get! But again I know sh**. Just going off what you've written. You want ice cream. You get ice cream. But you want TWO helpings. And a variety of toppings WHEN you think without asking. No one's a mind reader. Stop assuming she knows everything.

 

7. The IF...THEN dilemma here again. Seriously oldshirt? It's like you've suggested a walk in the park to your W and see an Obstacle Course to the right hand side of the park. You don't set the challenge to your W, you just walk calmly next to her to SEE if she'll jump that high, cross that bridge, hop step through the 20 tyre rings, he** swing from the flying fox! Be brave! Have the courage to TELL her you've set the challenge up. At the very least, she could train for it (fervently seek help through her menopause or book a holiday in Tahiti you've always wanted for just the 2 of you, buy whips and chains IDK!) But IF MY H wanted anything I WOULD WANT HIM TO TELL ME. Hit me with it. I'm a big girl. I care about my M and him and our family. Set whatever he wants. I might disagree that playing poker for money is a good idea. It won't spice up this M! Lol.

Get my drift?

Still I see communication as the MAJOR MAJOR issue here.

 

8. There is. That's why you're posting your secret op here.

 

I applaud you for ALL YOUR efforts. I sincerely do! Just let your blindsided W know. She might just be entirely over the moon you are doing all this for your M.

 

Hope your wishes were fulfilled on your Anniversary. It sounded very romantic even though there was definitely the STANDING OUT LIKE dogs ba**s expectation of sex. No problem there if that's your thing? Sort of contrary to a main message through your thread but your biz brother.

 

Best wishes

Lion Heart.

[dichotomy]

Been away from the board for a while. Tried to catch up on your thread here. Like others I have appreciated your posts and advice.

 

I think all the ideas and steps you have taken or plan to take are well advised. I am glad you also looked into emails and used the VAR.

 

 

Sometimes a spouse (man or women) can make the effort to be super spouse and it still not result in improvements in sexual intimacy in marriage. You have replied to these kind of thread and situations before on LS - including mine.

 

Only thing I can add is what is "actual sex" ??? You used this from a conversation your wife had with you after asking you to Titty F' her. I think some get focused on PIV as "actual sex". If your wife is experiencing the normal vaginal changes that can occur with Menopause perhaps this is on her mind "I can't have actual sex" so forget it. My wife tends to have this view as well. Me on the other hand would be forever happy with oral, hand jobs, or T f'ing as actual sex many times. But not everyone sees it this way.

 

Also I liked the discussion on love languages. I wish that author would just add "sex" as its OWN love language in addition to "touch" in his books. My wife loves lots of touch...and I do to, but its NOT the same as sex for some.

 

Best wishes.

Edited October 28, 2015 by dichotomy

[oldshirt]

Helloooo oldshirt,

 

I've come across this thread a few weeks late obviously because I have been completely gobsmacked by your approach. And I've tried to catch up and see where it's led you so far. I AM AFRAID for your M and, ofcourse, I'm not IN your M nor a fly on the wall during your interactions. I've always respected the opinions you've expressed on LS but this modus operandii of yours has taken me completely by surprise. It seems counter intuitive to how I think you actually are (on LS at least) and possibly how you are going about this something like a 'secret operation' when your W is unknowingly being tested and could be horribly blindsided. I would be VERY HAPPY to hear that I am wrong on all counts!

 

Before I go on Happy Anniversary to you both! XX

 

Allow me to address this particular post you made.

Sorry for the weird context - typing from my phone.

 

1. I think obviously your M IS in "jeopardy" at this time! Why on earth would you go to such lengths as to reflect and list in fine detail what YOU will change about yourself, with all the onus on your Ws reaction? You've clearly reached a brink of some type to spur on actions and changes but with the onus on HER. Unless you communicate WHY even to say "I'm making changes to myself to SHOW you how much I love you and to improve our M on all levels" then she may just see what YOU ARE doing as for you. My H made plenty of changes to HIS appearance and I never once thought it was for me, and I've been right all along! it was for him to spark interest from OW. I didn't know THAT but I definitely knew it wasn't for me.

 

2. Yes there is BECAUSE you keep reiterating IF I do (blah blah blah) and W does not respond in (blah blah blah) way, THEN I KNOW. KNOW what? I can see your predicament in that she's not a great communicator BUT you complain very little about that. Your complaints seem to be more about the sexual / intimate incompatibility growing you've recognized in the 'recent' past ie not from the beginning of the M? I'm not saying ANYONE should accept a no sex / no intimacy M. No! But from all your posts so far, alot of us would kill to have the ACTUAL LEVEL of sex AND intimacy you guys have. I think you are looking at this critical point of your relationship and saying "see??? Cup half EMPTY" when you could change your perspective and say "wow! Cup half full during menopause. How great is this! " IDK. And I get your love language is sex / intimacy. Mine too. I get that. It's the attitude you convey I am questioning. Does it benefit you..your attitude. (Yeah I'm a born optimist).

 

3. Sure. Affair as a deal breaker may need revisiting!

 

4. Good on you but your W may not care whether you look like a hunk or not. My H is just as hot in his worst state of personal maintenance (tho hygiene is important) as when he's all spruced up. My feelings are constant but that's just me.

 

5. I wrote IF because you are the ONLY one setting the list for this and checking it off yourself too. Ofcourse you're gonna get 100% on an exam you wrote AND marked yourself! Be a little fair and have Ws INPUT on the EXAM and the MARKING. Your list could be ENTIRELY different to hers. IDK.

 

6. IF here too. Still leads back to the fact that you're complaining about things IMO that you ALREADY get! But again I know sh**. Just going off what you've written. You want ice cream. You get ice cream. But you want TWO helpings. And a variety of toppings WHEN you think without asking. No one's a mind reader. Stop assuming she knows everything.

 

7. The IF...THEN dilemma here again. Seriously oldshirt? It's like you've suggested a walk in the park to your W and see an Obstacle Course to the right hand side of the park. You don't set the challenge to your W, you just walk calmly next to her to SEE if she'll jump that high, cross that bridge, hop step through the 20 tyre rings, he** swing from the flying fox! Be brave! Have the courage to TELL her you've set the challenge up. At the very least, she could train for it (fervently seek help through her menopause or book a holiday in Tahiti you've always wanted for just the 2 of you, buy whips and chains IDK!) But IF MY H wanted anything I WOULD WANT HIM TO TELL ME. Hit me with it. I'm a big girl. I care about my M and him and our family. Set whatever he wants. I might disagree that playing poker for money is a good idea. It won't spice up this M! Lol.

Get my drift?

Still I see communication as the MAJOR MAJOR issue here.

 

8. There is. That's why you're posting your secret op here.

 

I applaud you for ALL YOUR efforts. I sincerely do! Just let your blindsided W know. She might just be entirely over the moon you are doing all this for your M.

 

Hope your wishes were fulfilled on your Anniversary. It sounded very romantic even though there was definitely the STANDING OUT LIKE dogs ba**s expectation of sex. No problem there if that's your thing? Sort of contrary to a main message through your thread but your biz brother.

 

Best wishes

Lion Heart.

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed post of your concerns and comments. Thank you also for the anniversary wishes. I will address some posts that people have made lately and then I will post an update of how things went for our anniversary.

 

 

first off in regards to our marriage being in "jeopardy", I do not feel it is in immediate jeopardy as no one is threatening to leave or making any ultimatums or making any plans or taking any steps to separate. (At least I know I am not)

 

 

Yes we have some baggage and some issues like every other couple but there is no immediate crisis here and no one is contemplating pulling the ejection handle at this time.

 

 

- yes, I realize a lot of guys (and gals) have it much worse than me. We are not in a sexless marriage nor are we dealing with chronic rejection etc. I am just trying to take some preemptive action here in hoping to avoid things getting worse until it does turn into chronic rejection/sexless marriage etc.

 

 

- I get the feeling most of your concerns are over the fact that I am doing some things without discussing them with her first. I get that is an issue for some people and knew some would have an issue with that. Historically I have been a "lets-sit-down-and-discuss-this..." kind of person. What I have learned is that she really hates to talk about things and gets very defensive whenever I try to discuss something. And also that it really doesn't help much anyway. the things that have made a difference is when I have changed my behaviors and did things differently.

 

 

All I am doing is trying to do is be a better person and trying not to pressure her about sex. It's not really a "test" per se but of course I am going to assess her responses and reactions to my actions. If something seems to make it worse, I will shift gears and do something else. If something seems to be making it better, I will emphasize that a little more.

 

 

It's really no more complicated than that and there isn't anything nefarious taking place with it.

 

 

- I am not trying to make changes in myself for her or for the marriage. I am doing it for me.

 

 

 

 

If I am not covering something that you are wondering about just ask.

[lovinDKT3]

Oldshirt, I really get the impression that you have placed your wife in a battle for the marriage and she is unaware she is fighting.

 

I know you said she does not respond to your attempts to communicate your concerns, but your really putting her in a tough position.

[oldshirt]

Been away from the board for a while. Tried to catch up on your thread here. Like others I have appreciated your posts and advice.

 

I think all the ideas and steps you have taken or plan to take are well advised. I am glad you also looked into emails and used the VAR.

 

 

Sometimes a spouse (man or women) can make the effort to be super spouse and it still not result in improvements in sexual intimacy in marriage. You have replied to these kind of thread and situations before on LS - including mine.

 

Only thing I can add is what is "actual sex" ??? You used this from a conversation your wife had with you after asking you to Titty F' her. I think some get focused on PIV as "actual sex". If your wife is experiencing the normal vaginal changes that can occur with Menopause perhaps this is on her mind "I can't have actual sex" so forget it. My wife tends to have this view as well. Me on the other hand would be forever happy with oral, hand jobs, or T f'ing as actual sex many times. But not everyone sees it this way.

 

Also I liked the discussion on love languages. I wish that author would just add "sex" as its OWN love language in addition to "touch" in his books. My wife loves lots of touch...and I do to, but its NOT the same as sex for some.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

You bring up a good point in regards to love languages, yes sexuality and sexual chemistry are probably a more accurate love language of mine than simply touch.

 

 

I read these stories of people who have literally gone years without any sexual contact and I have no grasp. after a few months the writing would be on the wall that it was time for me to move on.

 

 

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I realize that as we age and as we are together longer and longer the flames of passion are not going to burn as bright and I will need to adjust accordingly.

 

 

In regards to the alternative methods, yes I am good with alternative methods and do not always require PIV. My wife also historically has had no issues with doing alternative methods and have never had an attitude of "PIV or nothing."

 

 

Truth be told, I would probably prefer an enthusiastic and engaging encounter of an alternative method vs a disconnected and cold encounter of PIV that entailed mostly looking at the clock and telling me to hurry up.

 

 

But as I've stated multiple times throughout the thread, my issue here is the lack of desire and the concept of "taking one for the team" in general rather than an issue specifically with PIV.

 

 

If somehow the libido and desire could be bumped up enough that the alternative methods could be done with some zest and enthusiasm, I would be ok with that.

 

 

I'm not saying that I could live on a steady diet of nothing but that forever and ever, but it would certainly be a big and much appreciated step in the right direction.