She had an ONS, now she's "SOOOOOO" "remorseful" and wants to save the marriage

[BeholdtheMan]

OP...keep in mind that the ONS story is only her version of the events.

 

She claims she is confessing out of guilt...but there mighg be other reasons motivating her...like fear of being outed somehow.

[fellini]

The first step to deciding on recovery or divorce is exactly weighing of the benefits. Dating myself, Ann Landers, the original one, said many times to the BS: ask yourself will your life be better with or without the WS.

 

 

Personally, having been through a Dday, I can say that the "thinking rationally" as one poster put it, the "deciding to R or D" or the "weighing of which is better" and this, perspective do sometimes occur, but what occurs BEFORE is a recognition that DEEP DOWN I didn't want to leave. And in spite of what an earlier LS poster suggested, that this was merely a weakness on my part, that we BS's make our decisions to stay out of Fear, weakness, whatever, the truth was that it was a STRENGTH of COMMITMENT to my feelings FOR my WW, regardless of what she did to herself, to me, or to our marriage. It took enormous courage to LISTEN to my genuine feelings and not what I had been brought up to be expected to do in the moment.

 

I imagine that most BS's who went through the process of "deciding whether to R" will verify that BEFORE that question, in their GUT, in their heart, they already were open to R. It may have surprised them, it may not. But DDAY put to the test their "belief" that infidelity was a deal breaker .

 

For some people that it is a deal breaker outweighs any thoughts of R. And I get that. And it makes sense. But to think that reconciliation is a distorted reaction to a black and white situation is to completely DISMISS, which is actually a form of disrespect, what many people do. Many people embark upon R immediately. Some people actually talk about being out the door and during a process of discussion or allowing initial reactions to settle down, make an unexpected decision to try one more time. To reconcile. These stories deserve respect. These are not stories of dormats. They are stories of survivors.

 

They deserve the same respect and acceptance as those who walk away from a marriage after 20 years and 6 kids over an ONS. That cannot be an easy thing to do either.

 

The thing that hurt the most is recognizing that R was going to be a very expensive gift to the marriage, and in the spirit of the Merchant of Venice, was going to extract a pound of flesh.

 

One of the hardest things to accept beyond my WW's A was the change in me, and coping with my knowing my marriage was, in spite of the prevailing expectation, not anywhere near finished. Reconciliation was already written in my DNA before she cheated, and certainly more clear when I discovered.

Edited September 18, 2015 by fellini

[lolablue17]

let's talk about you for a second, not about her.

 

You said that you trusted her completely for many years, until D-day. Well, you were wrong, didn't you? Not her - YOU were wrong! You shouldn't have trusted her blindly. So after it's been proven that YOU made a mistake by being too naive with "trusting her completely", are you going to learn something out of it?

 

Lesson No 1: Nobody's perfect.

Lesson No 2: You can never trust anyone blindly for ever.

 

So if you're planning to have a relationship with another woman at some point, It's best that you'll remember those two lessons...

 

I don't really know, but based on what you wrote here, you didn't catch her, and the only reason you know about it is because she couldn't continue lying to you. She is not the regular opportunist type. It's going to be very hard to find a woman that is more honest than her.

 

You, mistakenly thought that the world is perfect. Now you know that it's not. You prefer to gamble with a woman who has made mistakes, hurting other men. as long as it's not you.

 

I have a surprise for you. You can't even be sure that you won't cheat in the future. I'm not implying that you will, but i've seen too many stories about people who thought that the will never "do something" but eventually they did. just a thought.

[purplesorrow]

let's talk about you for a second, not about her.

 

You said that you trusted her completely for many years, until D-day. Well, you were wrong, didn't you? Not her - YOU were wrong! You shouldn't have trusted her blindly. So after it's been proven that YOU made a mistake by being too naive with "trusting her completely", are you going to learn something out of it?

 

Lesson No 1: Nobody's perfect.

Lesson No 2: You can never trust anyone blindly for ever.

 

So if you're planning to have a relationship with another woman at some point, It's best that you'll remember those two lessons...

 

I don't really know, but based on what you wrote here, you didn't catch her, and the only reason you know about it is because she couldn't continue lying to you. She is not the regular opportunist type. It's going to be very hard to find a woman that is more honest than her.

 

You, mistakenly thought that the world is perfect. Now you know that it's not. You prefer to gamble with a woman who has made mistakes, hurting other men. as long as it's not you.

 

I have a surprise for you. You can't even be sure that you won't cheat in the future. I'm not implying that you will, but i've seen too many stories about people who thought that the will never "do something" but eventually they did. just a thought.

 

His trusting her is not the problem. Her abusing that trust is. The only way you learn someone can't be trusted after a long history is for them to break that trust. I don't recall him saying the world is perfect. It is reasonable to think the person you chose to spend your life with has your back. Some people can be sure they won't cheat because they aren't wired that way and they take measures to not put themselves on a slippery slope.

[fellini]

In my experience actually you can trust people, more or less. It's not that they were untrustworthy, it is that at some point they become unreliable to do what a 10000s of 1000s of days before they would not do.

 

They don't bend, they break.

 

For that reason what you say is pretty true, that tomorrow the person who breaks could be me. But while I am thinking, it is not going to be me, I am to this degree trustworthy. And I believe my WW was too. Essentially each new day we venture out there we are being tested. And not just for infidelity.

 

I think it's okay to say "mistakenly" thought the world was perfect. But I think it's another thing to say a woman who has had sexual intercourse outside of her commitments not to, is a "mistake". I'd say we should call that a personal life decision. Mistakes happen, and there is always the possibility that we do so without intent. I cannot agree that "I was wrong" is the same thing as "I did wrong".

 

 

let's talk about you for a second, not about her.

 

You said that you trusted her completely for many years, until D-day. Well, you were wrong, didn't you? Not her - YOU were wrong! You shouldn't have trusted her blindly. So after it's been proven that YOU made a mistake by being too naive with "trusting her completely", are you going to learn something out of it?

 

Lesson No 1: Nobody's perfect.

Lesson No 2: You can never trust anyone blindly for ever.

 

So if you're planning to have a relationship with another woman at some point, It's best that you'll remember those two lessons...

 

I don't really know, but based on what you wrote here, you didn't catch her, and the only reason you know about it is because she couldn't continue lying to you. She is not the regular opportunist type. It's going to be very hard to find a woman that is more honest than her.

 

You, mistakenly thought that the world is perfect. Now you know that it's not. You prefer to gamble with a woman who has made mistakes, hurting other men. as long as it's not you.

 

I have a surprise for you. You can't even be sure that you won't cheat in the future. I'm not implying that you will, but i've seen too many stories about people who thought that the will never "do something" but eventually they did. just a thought.

[SummerDreams]

@fellini: I think we are looking at the same thing but interpreting it differently. You see R as a great act of love, I see it as insecurity and weakness. And I am wondering; what is this trait that makes some people accept and forgive infidelity and others having it as instant deal breaker and divorce? What makes people forgive their WS and others immediately divorce them? In your eyes it is love and I do not disagree that love plays a great role in this decision. But in my eyes I think that people who have high self esteem and love themselves truly do not accept to be cheated on / fooled / become doormats or say it however you like it. People who are aecure with themselves believe they deserve the best and nothing, not even their love for their WS and / or kids can stop then from having it. And I am insisting that if this happens to me I will more surely than not stay in the marriage because I don't have that high self esteem. Will I use love as an excuse for staying? Absolutely. But deep down I will know I am only staying cause I don't consider myself strong - good enough to find someone who will treat me better. You insist on calling it an act of strength - the strength of love and forgiveness. I insist on calling it weakness because nobody who values themselves wants to compromise with less than the absolute best.

[Sandy43]

@fellini: I think we are looking at the same thing but interpreting it differently. You see R as a great act of love, I see it as insecurity and weakness. And I am wondering; what is this trait that makes some people accept and forgive infidelity and others having it as instant deal breaker and divorce? What makes people forgive their WS and others immediately divorce them? In your eyes it is love and I do not disagree that love plays a great role in this decision. But in my eyes I think that people who have high self esteem and love themselves truly do not accept to be cheated on / fooled / become doormats or say it however you like it. People who are aecure with themselves believe they deserve the best and nothing, not even their love for their WS and / or kids can stop then from having it. And I am insisting that if this happens to me I will more surely than not stay in the marriage because I don't have that high self esteem. Will I use love as an excuse for staying? Absolutely. But deep down I will know I am only staying cause I don't consider myself strong - good enough to find someone who will treat me better. You insist on calling it an act of strength - the strength of love and forgiveness. I insist on calling it weakness because nobody who values themselves wants to compromise with less than the absolute best.

 

 

I felt the same way you did until it happened to me, it's easy to say how you would react or how you would handle it until it actually does then it's a whole other ball game. It isn't about being weak or how high your self esteem is. It is a personal decision and it is made based on many factors so I think that by saying people who chose R are insecure or weak is very insulting. You have not walked in any of our shoes.

[Mrs. John Adams]

If you have never experienced infidelity....you have no idea how you would react...and your posts on this forum are purely based on speculation....

 

No one can predict their reaction to infidelity...My husband told me that if i ever cheated he would divorce me. He did't. Why did he stay? Because his love for me was greater than my sin.

 

Some people can forgive more easily than others. There is no one size fits all formula to reconcile...or to divorce. Each infidelity is different....because each individual is different.

 

Reconciliation is a process...that continues for the rest of your life. The decision to cheat...has an impact greater than anyone can imagine...speculating is not reality...living through it unfortunately is. Whether as couple reconciles or whether they divorce...the impact of infidelity is life changing. It takes strength beyond measure to survive...for both the bs and the remorseful ws.

 

This isn't a game of guessing, it isn't a game of speculation...and it certainly is not a game of story weaving on a board of people who's lives have been touch by the reality of infidelity. Those of us who live with infidelity...would give anything to remove it from our lives.

[purplesorrow]

@fellini: I think we are looking at the same thing but interpreting it differently. You see R as a great act of love, I see it as insecurity and weakness. And I am wondering; what is this trait that makes some people accept and forgive infidelity and others having it as instant deal breaker and divorce? What makes people forgive their WS and others immediately divorce them? In your eyes it is love and I do not disagree that love plays a great role in this decision. But in my eyes I think that people who have high self esteem and love themselves truly do not accept to be cheated on / fooled / become doormats or say it however you like it. People who are aecure with themselves believe they deserve the best and nothing, not even their love for their WS and / or kids can stop then from having it. And I am insisting that if this happens to me I will more surely than not stay in the marriage because I don't have that high self esteem. Will I use love as an excuse for staying? Absolutely. But deep down I will know I am only staying cause I don't consider myself strong - good enough to find someone who will treat me better. You insist on calling it an act of strength - the strength of love and forgiveness. I insist on calling it weakness because nobody who values themselves wants to compromise with less than the absolute best.

 

I tried to reconcile for a bit but I wasn't nor am I weak and insecure. In fact I was secure enough in myself to try to reconcile for no other reason than I wanted to.

[SummerDreams]

I felt the same way you did until it happened to me, it's easy to say how you would react or how you would handle it until it actually does then it's a whole other ball game. It isn't about being weak or how high your self esteem is. It is a personal decision and it is made based on many factors so I think that by saying people who chose R are insecure or weak is very insulting. You have not walked in any of our shoes.

 

I don't intend to insult anyone, I realize though how it is perceived that way. I thought that by including myself in the people who would stay with a WS it would prove I don't say it as an insult rather than as a sad truth, in my opinion of course. But I guess people get insulted either way so I apologize.

[oldshirt]

Personally, having been through a Dday, I can say that the "thinking rationally" as one poster put it, the "deciding to R or D" or the "weighing of which is better" and this, perspective do sometimes occur, but what occurs BEFORE is a recognition that DEEP DOWN I didn't want to leave. And in spite of what an earlier LS poster suggested, that this was merely a weakness on my part, that we BS's make our decisions to stay out of Fear, weakness, whatever, the truth was that it was a STRENGTH of COMMITMENT to my feelings FOR my WW, regardless of what she did to herself, to me, or to our marriage. It took enormous courage to LISTEN to my genuine feelings and not what I had been brought up to be expected to do in the moment.

 

I imagine that most BS's who went through the process of "deciding whether to R" will verify that BEFORE that question, in their GUT, in their heart, they already were open to R. It may have surprised them, it may not. But DDAY put to the test their "belief" that infidelity was a deal breaker .

 

For some people that it is a deal breaker outweighs any thoughts of R. And I get that. And it makes sense. But to think that reconciliation is a distorted reaction to a black and white situation is to completely DISMISS, which is actually a form of disrespect, what many people do. Many people embark upon R immediately. Some people actually talk about being out the door and during a process of discussion or allowing initial reactions to settle down, make an unexpected decision to try one more time. To reconcile. These stories deserve respect. These are not stories of dormats. They are stories of survivors.

 

They deserve the same respect and acceptance as those who walk away from a marriage after 20 years and 6 kids over an ONS. That cannot be an easy thing to do either.

 

The thing that hurt the most is recognizing that R was going to be a very expensive gift to the marriage, and in the spirit of the Merchant of Venice, was going to extract a pound of flesh.

 

One of the hardest things to accept beyond my WW's A was the change in me, and coping with my knowing my marriage was, in spite of the prevailing expectation, not anywhere near finished. Reconciliation was already written in my DNA before she cheated, and certainly more clear when I discovered.

 

 

 

When your spouse cheats on you, your commitment to stay with them is dissolved. When they cheat, they tear up their spouse card and are no longer entitled to their BS remaining married to them.

 

 

So it does become a weighing of the costs vs benefits of whether to try to R or to walk away.

 

 

And I agree with the earlier poster that quoted Ann Landers - are you better off with them or without them.

 

 

The commitment that the BS made prior to the betrayal is waived and is no longer in effect.

 

 

Even the Catholic Church will sanction a divorce in the case of infidelity as will every other major religion. I am not a religious scholar by any means but I am not aware of one major religion that asks it's followers to remain with a cheater.

 

 

If a BS chooses to remain with the WS, that is their choice and is solely on them. Noone asks them to and no one expects them to maintain their vows once they have been cheated on. Only the WS's parents will ask a BS to remain with WS. And even then, some of them realize the depths of the betrayal and will sanction the BS leaving their own child.

[fellini]

You include yourself in that only to say that in doing so you are weak. That you are doing something against any acceptable reason. You continue to want to say we have our right to believe in reconciliation but you also continue to define for us what that means. And when we do, you call us weak? low self esteem! You are so locked into your thinking inside the box that you cannot hear what others here are saying to you: It isn't like that. People who have LIVED through infidelity here keep telling you that you don't get it. Which is reasonable, because supposedly you haven't lived it.

 

Someone who has high "self esteem and love themselves truly do not accept to be cheated on" is your way of saying that there is only one true response to infidelity. "Cheated on"? Maybe people with high self esteem are secure enough in themselves (what you call self love I suppose) NOT to take infidelity so much as about them as a weakness in the person they are dedicated to. If a good friend of mine attempts to commit suicide, maybe my first response is not "how could you do that to me! You are my bowling partner and we have the finals next week!

 

You see infidelity as an ACT AGAINST the partner, and some of us may even see that initially, but have stuck around long enough and followed our hearts long enough to realize it is way more complex than that, and in the end, infidelity has NOTHING to do with me if I am not the one committing it. That I suffer, that I am in trauma that I am implicated in my love for a wayward is true, but there is so much more to it than just STAY or GO.

 

 

 

I don't intend to insult anyone, I realize though how it is perceived that way. I thought that by including myself in the people who would stay with a WS it would prove I don't say it as an insult rather than as a sad truth, in my opinion of course. But I guess people get insulted either way so I apologize.

Edited September 18, 2015 by fellini

[Dutchman1]

If you have never experienced infidelity....you have no idea how you would react...and your posts on this forum are purely based on speculation....

 

No one can predict their reaction to infidelity...My husband told me that if i ever cheated he would divorce me. He did't. Why did he stay? Because his love for me was greater than my sin.

 

Some people can forgive more easily than others. There is no one size fits all formula to reconcile...or to divorce. Each infidelity is different....because each individual is different.

 

Reconciliation is a process...that continues for the rest of your life. The decision to cheat...has an impact greater than anyone can imagine...speculating is not reality...living through it unfortunately is. Whether as couple reconciles or whether they divorce...the impact of infidelity is life changing. It takes strength beyond measure to survive...for both the bs and the remorseful ws.

 

This isn't a game of guessing, it isn't a game of speculation...and it certainly is not a game of story weaving on a board of people who's lives have been touch by the reality of infidelity. Those of us who live with infidelity...would give anything to remove it from our lives.

 

Dear Mrs. John Adams,

 

I have so much respect for your wise words, "the impact of infidelity is life changing "

 

I'm now 56 years old, my first wife cheated on me in a horrific way more than 30 years ago.

This changed my life after that. Every thought, decision, hope , expectation and the way I was trusting people changed.

I still sometimes have wild nightmares, where I wake up in sweat and cry.

 

I'm a granddad now, have a fatastic wife, we are very much in love.

Still this being betrayed is never forgotten.

 

 

Dutchman 1

Edited September 18, 2015 by Dutchman1
Spelling

[fellini]

Well I for one never felt anything about the vows my wife made with me 20 years prior to cheating. Those vows and the two young people who spoke them are no longer really here today either.

 

One thing is to hold a moral view of what infidelity means, another, how it impacts upon your life.

 

When your spouse cheats on you, your commitment to stay with them is dissolved. When they cheat, they tear up their spouse card and are no longer entitled to their BS remaining married to them.

 

 

So it does become a weighing of the costs vs benefits of whether to try to R or to walk away.

 

 

And I agree with the earlier poster that quoted Ann Landers - are you better off with them or without them.

 

 

The commitment that the BS made prior to the betrayal is waived and is no longer in effect.

 

 

Even the Catholic Church will sanction a divorce in the case of infidelity as will every other major religion. I am not a religious scholar by any means but I am not aware of one major religion that asks it's followers to remain with a cheater.

 

 

If a BS chooses to remain with the WS, that is their choice and is solely on them. Noone asks them to and no one expects them to maintain their vows once they have been cheated on. Only the WS's parents will ask a BS to remain with WS. And even then, some of them realize the depths of the betrayal and will sanction the BS leaving their own child.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Dear Mrs. John Adams,

 

I have so much respect for your wise words, "the impact of infidelity is life changing "

 

I'm now 56 years old, my first wife cheated on me in a horrific way more than 30 years ago.

This changed my life after that. Every thought, decision, hope , expectation and the way I was trusting people changed.

I still sometimes have wild nightmares, where I wake up in sweat and cry.

 

I'm a granddad now, have a fatastic wife, we are very much in love.

Still this being betrayed is never forgotten.

 

 

Dutchman 1

Thank you

 

It does indeed CHANGE our lives...but our lives can certainly still move forward and we can find happiness again...whether with our Ws or without them.

We never forget....

I am glad you have found happiness in your life...in spite of the infidelity.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Fellini, I have been following the discussion on Reconciliation versus Divorce with some interest. In my opinion this decision on the part of couples has a tectonic effect on the way their lives play out post the decision whether they decide to reconcile or divorce. I think the decision to reconcile or divorce is a very personal one and cannot really be debated on a public forum. No one can say whether one person is right to reconcile or another is wrong in deciding to divorce. However, I do think the circumstances surrounding the infidelity does have a bearing on whether reconciliation or divorce would eventually take place.

 

Infidelity can be of varying degrees. For example one cannot compare a ONS which occurs due to a drunken night out when one is not fully in one's senses and one's defences are down to a premeditated long term affair which was entered into using a dating site such as AM or some other. The two are as different as chalk is from cheese. In the first case there may have been no desire for betrayal of one's spouse whereas the second variety was definitely planned to betray the spouse. The second variety shows a cold and calculated heartlessness which in my opinion decries any attempt at reconciliation. The first type would definitely merit consideration for reconciliation. Having said this I would also add that there are other considerations that come into play foremost among them being as to whether the Wayward Spouse is truly remorseful. The yardsticks for a truly remorseful spouse are well documented and in a particular case the WS conduct can be measured against these yardsticks. I do not know your story but I am sure that your WW must have been truly remorseful for you to have decided to reconcile with her. I am sure that if she had not measured up to the yardsticks for remorse, you also would not have reconciled. I think that if a WS is not truly remorseful, reconciliation will fail whether in the short term or the long term. If nothing else your gut will not rest until it is certain that your WS has true remorse and is working 24*7 to repair the damage he/ she has caused. Hope I made some sense! Cheers!

[Mrs. John Adams]

In your mind...a ONS is not as BAD as a LTA.....but for SOME people...it is and it is not forgivable and they cannot stay with the WS. As a matter of fact...an EA can be the straw that broke up a marriage in some cases.

 

You see...you are grouping things according to YOUR opinion...and each of us processes infidelity differently.

 

there is no one size fits all...there is no right and wrong answer.

 

Each infidelity couple must evaluate their own situation...and do what is best for them.

 

I know a couple....that were married many years. Both were very unhappy for varying reasons. The wife wanted to divorce....but financially it was not in either of their best interest...so they lived together....apart...in separate bedrooms. Eventually....the wife had an affair...one that she planned and sought out. This went on for 2 years....at one point her husband found out....and she told him she would stop...but the affair continued. Her husband found out again.

 

I will not go into all the details...and i am only telling you this because...in most cases...this would have ended in divorce....but it did not. This couple reconciled....sought medical help....the kids are grown....and this couple is living in their happily ever after.

 

So the bottom line is this....while we all have breaking points...we all have lines drawn in the sand...our lines are not necessarily the same lines drawn for other people.

 

You can never tell me what is right for me...or that i did it all wrong...unless you walk in my shoes.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Mrs. Adams, Thank you for responding to my post. While I must say that I respect your views I have to say that I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to say. If you read the first part of my post you will see that I said that the decision to reconcile or divorce is a very personal one and cannot really be debated on a public forum like this one. I have always believed in the adage that 'One man's meat is another man's poison'. I agree that for a particular person a ONS is a deal breaker while for someone else, a long term affair which was graphic in it's details still merits forgiveness and reconciliation. However that is neither here nor there. When I mentioned two examples of infidelity these were offered objectively and not subjectively. I was trying to make a point if you will. The fact is that infidelity is always wrong and always heart breaking. It does not matter if it is a light EA or a long term involved PA. It is basically a betrayal of trust in what is a very personal and intimate relationship. No other betrayal can hit home so hard and so painfully as infidelity.

 

I hope I have been able to clarify my position in the matter. I do hope you agree with the points I raised in the rest of my original post.Cheers!

Edited September 18, 2015 by Just a Guy

[Mrs. John Adams]

I believe i understood your post...it was your opinion regarding what you consider to be varying degrees of infidelity and what would be forgivable and why.

 

I am stating that while this may be the way YOU view it....it may not be the way someone else views it.

 

Infidelity can be of varying degrees. For example one cannot compare a ONS which occurs due to a drunken night out when one is not fully in one's senses and one's defences are down to a premeditated long term affair which was entered into using a dating site such as AM or some other. The two are as different as chalk is from cheese.

 

One..as you refer in your paragraph....may certainly compare an ONS to a LTA...

 

For you....and i have a feeling you have never had infidelity occur in your marriage ...please correct me if i am wrong....an ONS may not have the same impact as an LTA....but for others...it does.

 

and we never know what the impact might be until it happens. We can speculate from now until doomsday.

 

Fellini is choosing to handle his infidelity the best way he sees fit. For him...it is working. He does not need fixing.The way he has handled his wife's affair...may not be the same way Mr. Adams handles mine.

It does not mean that either of them is handling the situation incorrectly.

 

I view being here on LS this way. I am not here to tell you what to do. I am here to offer you support....and to tell you what i have done wrong and what i have done right in my own situation. If it helps you...wonderful. If it doesn't....then i hope you find something that does. I am a huge advocate of the book by Linda MacDonald....how to help your spouse heal from your affair. I have recommended it to many people. It helped some...others it didn't. I view it as a GREAT book...because it HELPED me. But it is not necessarily the right book for everyone. It is a wonderful tool...but it has to speak to both the WS and the BS and they have to be on the same page in their healing process.

 

We don't all struggle with the same issues...we don't all trigger at the same things...we don't all process the same way...and we certainly do not all have the right answers for everyone else.

[Horton]

There is a big dichotomy, a big mismatch, between her words and her actions. LOVE and an ONS with a STRANGER do not go together; they are contradictory. However, let's assume what you say is correct, I still don't see any reason to stop divorce. If it is like she says, then let's divorce and see her determination.

 

If you start the divorce process it would be wise to do so with the intention of permanently ending the relationship IMO. The two most likely scenarios are that she either gets over the end of your marriage surprisingly fast and hopefully splits with you amicably or she does a complete 180 on you and starts showing her true colors. If you go into this with any kind of hope that she will spend her days fighting for you to come back to her it's almost a given that you're gonna be disappointed.

 

I don't mean to scare you or make you feel like this is hopeless, but if you're gonna do this you should do it right. Lawyer up and don't spare any expense trying to divorce on the cheap. No matter how many tears she's cried or how many times shes told you she's sorry if you decide to divorce her, for the love of all things holy don't take her at her word that she's gonna play fair with you. Cause if you're wrong about her intentions you will wind up paying for that error for the rest of your life.

 

You may be surprised at how many cheating wives go from sobbing on the floor begging for forgiveness to taking their betrayed husband for everything he's worth, turning his kids against him and using him as basically an indentured servant for her and the OM through the power of the state. As irrational as it is even an adulteress can come to see herself as a woman scorned.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Horton

[Mrs. John Adams]

Her regret, however sincere it may be in this moment is just a feeling and feelings tend to fade with time. You may be surprised at how many cheating wives go from sobbing on the floor begging for forgiveness to taking their betrayed husband for everything he's worth, turning his kids against him and using him as basically an indentured servant for her and the OM through the power of the state. As irrational as it is even an adulteress can come to see herself as a woman scorned.

 

Just curious....how much of this ^^^^^have you personally encountered? Do you know the percentage? I seem to recall that the percentage of Adulteress wives marrying the OM is about 3%....and 20% of those end in divorce. I am thinking...using him as basically an indentured servant for her and the OM through the power of the state....is probably not a real accurate statement.

[fellini]

Hi Guy.

 

Some observations about these points though.

 

Without getting into a debate over ONS vs. LTA, I'd have to say though this:

 

Sometimes a ONS is actually "planned" in the sense that some people go out and are looking for a ONS.

 

And sometimes someone isn't looking for a LTA and end up in one because slowly day by day the layers of protection are being peeled away and a WS actually believes that although they like the "attention" they have no intention of crossing the line. Whatever that line is: They had it under control.

 

The problem is something gives, and now the emotional side is too invested in the other person and they are in a LTA.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if I heard that many LTA began as "innocent" exploring connections with a colleague or new friend made through school drop offs and pick ups or taking the kid to ballet classes and suddenly you are thrust into a "intimate friendship" without any intention of taking it further than to pass an hour and a half two days a week having coffee.

 

But those coffees add up, and then it's too late.

 

So I agree with your argument that each story is personal.

 

I have gone on record already in saying I personally do not buy any of the REMORSE Yardstick on the reconciliation issues.

 

True REMORSE would be wonderful to have if reconciliation were on the table. But I believe very few people are actually capable of FEELING remorse let alone able to demonstrate it. Regret and sorry, and behaviours which go a long way to show that they recognise what they did was "stupid", sure, but remorse for the way they have hurt another human being is for me not the yardstick for which I expect to reconcile.

 

What I personally want to see after an A comes to light are behaviours which show without requirement of my having to spell them out, just what a wayward has to do to prevent crossing the line again. Psychological and emotional introspection into their own issues such that they recognise how and why they behaved in an undignified (by their own definition of undignified) way for THEMSELVES.

 

You see, I won't cheat on my wife, but NOT because of the pain I would cause her, that would be my third reason. My first is my own self worth. My second would be betraying my daughter's unconditional love for me. My third would be for the pain I would cause my wife, and the fourth would be my reputation "out there". That's me.

 

In order to cheat on me my WW had to convince herself a number of things:

 

1. that I didn't "really" like her (A very difficult task indeed)

2. that her own daughter was becoming more distant and was in coherts with me against her (strange as it seems, she managed that one too)

3. that she deserved more for herself, and the man she found who gave it to her was prepared to bath her in praise and flattery and poetry and art.

 

So in order to cheat she had to open a window (as Shirley Glass calls it) for the AP and in doing so stop accepting those needs from myself and our daughter. Then its not such a long road to believing that I was not meeting her needs and the AP was.

 

Looking back, after DDay, if there was, and continues to be one thing she is incapable of expressing, is REMORSE in terms of me. What she has expressed is recognition of how much of herself she lost in this affair, and how close to losing everything she came. This self realisation is the motor of her approach to reconciliation, and for that reason I find the demand for remorse to often misguided.

 

My WW is incapable of remorse and recognises she is weak on empathy.

 

That is that.

 

Hi Fellini, I have been following the discussion on Reconciliation versus Divorce with some interest. In my opinion this decision on the part of couples has a tectonic effect on the way their lives play out post the decision whether they decide to reconcile or divorce. I think the decision to reconcile or divorce is a very personal one and cannot really be debated on a public forum. No one can say whether one person is right to reconcile or another is wrong in deciding to divorce. However, I do think the circumstances surrounding the infidelity does have a bearing on whether reconciliation or divorce would eventually take place.

 

Infidelity can be of varying degrees. For example one cannot compare a ONS which occurs due to a drunken night out when one is not fully in one's senses and one's defences are down to a premeditated long term affair which was entered into using a dating site such as AM or some other. The two are as different as chalk is from cheese. In the first case there may have been no desire for betrayal of one's spouse whereas the second variety was definitely planned to betray the spouse. The second variety shows a cold and calculated heartlessness which in my opinion decries any attempt at reconciliation. The first type would definitely merit consideration for reconciliation. Having said this I would also add that there are other considerations that come into play foremost among them being as to whether the Wayward Spouse is truly remorseful. The yardsticks for a truly remorseful spouse are well documented and in a particular case the WS conduct can be measured against these yardsticks. I do not know your story but I am sure that your WW must have been truly remorseful for you to have decided to reconcile with her. I am sure that if she had not measured up to the yardsticks for remorse, you also would not have reconciled. I think that if a WS is not truly remorseful, reconciliation will fail whether in the short term or the long term. If nothing else your gut will not rest until it is certain that your WS has true remorse and is working 24*7 to repair the damage he/ she has caused. Hope I made some sense! Cheers!

[Horton]

Just curious....how much of this ^^^^^have you personally encountered? Do you know the percentage? I seem to recall that the percentage of Adulteress wives marrying the OM is about 3%....and 20% of those end in divorce. I am thinking...using him as basically an indentured servant for her and the OM through the power of the state....is probably not a real accurate statement.

 

It makes no difference if the OM she shacks up with is the guy she cheated with or some other cretin, either way there's a very real possibility that the OP could be left footing the bill if he doesn't play his cards right, so I advised him to get a good lawyer and be smart about it.

 

I've heard enough horror stories from divorced men to warrant cautioning a man that's decided on divorce to not take the word of his adulterous wife as gospel. She's already shown him what she's capable of, so it's not a stretch to advise him that she may attempt to manipulate him once she knows that divorce is imminent and her financial future is on the line.

 

Would me not personally getting f'd in a divorce mean it doesn't happen? I didn't advise him of specific methods for getting a good settlement, I just advised him to get a good lawyer and not place his trust in the woman that he's about to go to court against.

 

As far as indentured servants go, if you're interested you can find info online about men paying exorbitant child support payments or having to pay their cheating ex wife lifetime alimony. You could read some of the many accounts of men that the courts have ordered to pay child support for a kid that's been proven through DNA to be the product of an adulterous affair. Trust me the information is out there just waiting for you to google it.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

Hi all

 

Here an update from yesterday and tonight. It was very difficult for everyone involved. My WW decided that part of immediate step to make it up to me and starting the work on fixing herself is telling everything our families. She said that this is only one of the many crucial steps and antidotes on working to eliminate her selfish way of thinking and the deceitful behavior of hers and she will continue to improve herself especially the more she will attend IC. She also told me that she is going to give me her written and detailed plan as I mentioned in a previous post how she attempts to do everything. Either way, her parents didn't take it very well especially her mother that was not really supportive and mad with her and what she's done to our marriage. In fact, instead of being more time being with her daughter she was trying to comfort me. Her father was more supportive but still completely shocked and angry. Just to understand the background I am very close and love her family very much. Her father retired from the military and her mother was involved in charity related to the military and soldiers. It is almost as if they are my parents and I am their son not their SIL. They almost begged me to give their daughter another chance and that they would support just if I asked them to do so. They would do absolutely anything to help me and us to survive this catastrophe. It was completely agonizing for me to see them and especially her father, a proud soldier, in tears.

 

Anyway, being later on and when it was already very late we went to sleep. I left our bed room and sleep in the guest room on a couch. Last days I do not sleep so well so I could hear my wife crying and sobbing there. I don't know exactly how long it was before I felt a little bit a sleep but I think it was something like one or one and half hour her crying there. Anyway, I awoke later to the noise of some in the toilette which seemed as if someone is throwing up. I jumped thinking one of my children does not feel well and was surprised to find my wife there. When she saw me she had something which seemed as a complete breakdown. She was literally shacking all over her body, then half sat or felt down to the floor, hugging herself with her head on her knees mumbling and repeatedly saying half sentences like "what have I done", "O my God what have I done", "I cheated", "I cheated", "I'm sorry". Then she began to vomit again. Two of my children probably heard that as well and came to see what happened. I immediately walked out and shut the door so they don’t see their mommy that way. I told them mom is not feeling well, that I am going to take care of her, and the best help is them going to sleep; that everything will be o.k. Well, I was in in combat situations under heavy enemy fire and had always that confidence and security. But m God I never felt such anxiety and was so terribly scared as in that moment – it was really that sense of anxiety with this unpleasant sensation in your chest, throat and hands.

 

Anyway, I took my wife lifted her from the floor and helped her wash herself carried her to the bed room where she changed her clothes and I cleaned the toilet in the meantime. I decided this time to sleep in our bed and watch my wife. I don’t think she will do something to herself but I was too afraid and decided not to take any chances. Anyway, when I came and she noticed me going to sleep in our bed she told me that she is o.k. and if I can't I can sleep down stairs. She told me there is nothing more she desires that is me returning to our bad but I don't have to do this if I feel bad about it. I told her this was o.k., it was my decision and I can handle this. She told me then that she feels so selfish and ashamed over what happened right now that she even can't look in my eyes. She promised that it won't happen again. That she's ashamed that in my situation I need to take care of her and she is not there for me. She continued to open up to me even to the degree of putting her defenses down as to her vulnerability. She told me that she is scared. That she is scared of herself, scared of the person she has become or was, scared of that aspect of hers that could block, shut or be indifferent to my love, care and respect for while she did such an awful thing, she is scared of being able to inflict more pain and damage to more people she loves; she said she is scared and in panic of losing me, which most probably already happened, she is scared of losing the good marriage which she just kicked away and she is scared of losing my unconditional love to her, which most probably she also already lost. She said she is scared that if I do stay and try to reconcile the marriage that after we have reconciled that I will regret and leave her then; she is terrified by the idea that I might find another woman and leave for her. She knows I would never act like her but even the idea that we divorce and another woman will have me is killing her.

 

She said that she knows that this fateful day it was the worst, the most terrible, decision in her whole life that she will regret till her last day. Hence, I know affairs are not mistakes or accidents but either choices or decisions one takes I asked. What does she means by that? She said that the fact whether she intended to sleep with him (the scum of earth) or not is irrelevant, because at any given moment she could stop and say no! She told the alcohol is not an excuse and it was not a black out where she can’t remember anything. If she is honest she must admit that she could stop but didn't do it. So, there were many red flags she ignored and despite everything she went for it. She said she understands that she didn't went alone to bed just to awake with his dick in her vagina falling out from nowhere. Hearing that description I felt as if I was stabbed with a huge sword in my chest. I really felt physically a pain there. She probably noticed right away my distress and profusely apologized for the insensitive use of words. She then said that the last month she gave a lot of thought to it and has a glimpse as to the why and how it happened. She told me that if I want to hear (because I told her as she confessed that I'm not interested in her excuses) she will tell me everything and insisted that it has nothing to do with me, that there is no blame on me and it is only her blame and brokenness). She also told me that if I wish we can wait a little bit for her first IC session and she would ask her IC if a can join and here it there they could clarify if any questions on my part will arise that it is not my fault. She does not want it to be misunderstood as blame shifting and excuse. I told her she might go to sleep and this can be discussed later. So, there I was back in my bed, my WW at my side, me staring at the wall. What I am looking there is a big picture of my wife in her white wedding dress and followers; yes, I insisted to have that picture in our bed room throughout all of our twenty years of marriage. I am staring at that picture, I can feel and hear her breathing and I can't stop crying, tearing and for the first time feeling confused, uncertain and lost. Infidelity sucks, I wish it was a nightmare and I could awake from and if not maybe just nut to wake up in the morning

 

Anyway, one thing I know is that divorce or not divorce, in this specific case filing right away and instantly leaving is simply shooting from the hip. It's like abandoning my wounded comrades in the middle of the fight. I might leave at the end but I must finish my duties and not desert in the middle. Could I (metaphorically) die in the process)? Yes, but death with dignity is better than cowardly escape! Does the dynamic will change and despite my resolution to divorce I could stay against my will. The possibility does exist, but I have to risk that chance. This is what I mean with dying in the process. Are there other possibilities? I don't know. The divorce is still alive, it has gone nowhere and I did not give up on it still for reconciliation. Yet, now there are also other thoughts and questions. Knowing that every rule has an exception, I ask myself can the rule of infidelity as a deal breaker have such an exception. Does it apply to my wife? Well, I don't know. Another thing I am sure as standing opposed to what one of the commenters wrote is that if my WW would not have shown remorse and compassion towards me there is no chance such a question would arise as to regard of staying with such an heartless narcissist and psychopath. The divorce would be immediate no matter what the consequences. This shows also why I am not buying the default reconciliation circus. The fact that a marriage technically survive on paper does not make it a marriage nor is there any true reconciliation. There is also no love, which is used as excuse, but attachment (financial, kids and many more). It's not one and the same. There are also fears, weaknesses and insecurities. For me, staying for these reasons is indeed what I described as being a doormat. If I will stay for these reasons I can't but see myself as a doormat, not a man. Most "reconciled" marriages are like that, I am quite sure about it. This is not worth pursuing. Only few in my opinion have really recovered and truly reconciled.

Edited September 19, 2015 by GrandFunkRailroad

[drifter777]

I'm sure you crazy kids will be just fine...