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Should I call in tomorrow?


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LOL how on earth is forced socializing caring about their development and careers? And how on earth is NOT forcing cake and forced interactions NOT caring about their careers.

 

Sorry, we show we care but pay, benefits, upward mobility, personalized training, special projects, relocation opportunities, mentorship programs, departmental cross training projects, etc. As a career woman I would far rather have a company care that way then making us all sit together and gossip. :laugh:

 

A small company, like yours, has this more "earthy" approach. It may work at that size. But once you become a large corporation it just doesn't nor does anyone think to impose that on others. We invest in our employees on items that will strengthen their skills, resumes, etc.

 

Numbers are all that matter, friend. Do things your way if it works. I'm not in your budget. I don't know how well it works.

 

 

0% turnover. That's all I have to say. I never have to look for new employees, from assistants to programmers. And GREAT software programmers are a B-word to find.. And, 2 of my companies were bootstrapped. I exited owning 100% stock. So trust me, I don't need the money. My current company is a passion project.

 

 

As I said, it works for me. My employees love it. Nothing is forced. If it were, they would not be here. I fire employees for not fitting the culture. That's how serious we are about finding the right people.

 

 

You can do that AND take care of them financially. These things are no mutually exclusive. I think both people replying to me are thinking this is an argument. It's really not. I'm just acknowledging there is more than one way to create a culture.

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LOL how on earth is forced socializing caring about their development and careers? And how on earth is NOT forcing cake and forced interactions NOT caring about their careers.

 

Sorry, we show we care by pay, benefits, upward mobility, personalized training, special projects, relocation opportunities, mentorship programs, departmental cross training projects, etc. As a career woman I would far rather have a company care that way then making us all sit together and gossip. :laugh:

 

A small company, like yours, has this more "earthy" approach. It may work at that size. But once you become a large corporation it just doesn't nor does anyone think to impose that on others. We invest in our employees on items that will strengthen their skills, resumes, etc.

 

How exactly are your forced luncheons developing them? Have you done an anonymous survey or, as the owner, you just assume everyone is hunky dory?

 

And we do it in areas that they have requested.

 

I just saw your edits. Nothing is forced. And I do regular, monthly 1 on 1s with every person on my staff. I have a very blunt, straight-forward approach to LMA. They reciprocate by telling me what they love and hate about their career. They do it because they know I will fix the things they dislike.

 

 

Maybe it will blow your mind even more to know we take our whole company on 2 paid retreats a year. One skiing, one lake. Both are optional. No one ever refuses to go. In fact, no one can stop talking about our lake trip next month. It fuels energy.

 

 

And about skill-building. Every employee here gets 3 things they 'own' within the company. It doesn't mean they do it daily. It just means they are responsible for knowing where that piece of the company is and for managing the growth of it. And those things change every 3 months until the person is happy doing exactly what they're good at daily.

 

 

My prior marketing lead is now an executive assistant because she loves organizing, for example. Being small and in software allows for flexibility.

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I just saw your edits. Nothing is forced. And I do regular, monthly 1 on 1s with every person on my staff. I have a very blunt, straight-forward approach to LMA. They reciprocate by telling me what they love and hate about their career. They do it because they know I will fix the things they dislike.

 

 

Maybe it will blow your mind even more to know we take our whole company on 2 paid retreats a year. One skiing, one lake. Both are optional. No one ever refuses to go. In fact, no one can stop talking about our lake trip next month. It fuels energy.

 

 

And about skill-building. Every employee here gets 3 things they 'own' within the company. It doesn't mean they do it daily. It just means they are responsible for knowing where that piece of the company is and for managing the growth of it. And those things change every 3 months until the person is happy doing exactly what they're good at daily.

 

 

My prior marketing lead is now an executive assistant because she loves organizing, for example. Being small and in software allows for flexibility.

 

Why would that blow me away? I know other companies that do that. One home builder that rented a plane and took their 100 employees to the Bahamas each year.

 

Sure, at 50 you can do that. And yes, at 50 we had 0 percent turnover. In our corporate entity, so the equivalent to your work force, we are at 400 and have less than 5% turnover. So employee retention is something we pride ourselves on. Actually our company was recognized by a major publication as an employer of choice and have been mentioned, favorably, by many in the public eye. :)

 

We weren't saying it was a competition. But you had two people dissent in their opinion on your company's practices and you took it as competitive.

 

You can run your company any way you want, the joys of being owner and boss. But you have to see, that you aren't hitting a large subset of the population so many may not feel it holds as much value as you feel it does.

 

To each their own but we are not more wrong for finding it tedious as you find it invigorating.

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Why would that blow me away? I know other companies that do that. One home builder that rented a plane and took their 100 employees to the Bahamas each year.

 

Sure, at 50 you can do that. And yes, at 50 we had 0 percent turnover. In our corporate entity, so the equivalent to your work force, we are at 400 and have less than 5% turnover. So employee retention is something we pride ourselves on. Actually our company was recognized by a major publication as an employer of choice and have been mentioned, favorably, by many in the public eye. :)

 

We weren't saying it was a competition. But you had two people dissent in their opinion on your company's practices and you took it as competitive.

 

You can run your company any way you want, the joys of being owner and boss. But you have to see, that you aren't hitting a large subset of the population so many may not feel it holds as much value as you feel it does.

 

To each their own but we are not more wrong for finding it tedious as you find it invigorating.

 

Oh I agree, live and let live is a motto of mine. And I acknowledge your differences in management. There is more than one way to run a company. My whole point to the OP was to consider a new job or try to engage in the culture to at least make an effort. Those are the only two options. Other people appreciate what's happening. She is the odd duck out and will have to make that decision on her own.

 

 

It's definitely not a competition and I'm sorry it came off that way. Although, it won't shock you to know one of my 5 strengths are competition, analytical, strategic, activator, and command. So while I don't mean to sound arrogant, rude, and stubborn,, that is the basement of my strength-set. :p. We spend a lot of time figuring out strengths here as well for that reason haha.

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autumnnight

I think I missed part of the OP. This is, like, a once a week lunch in conjunction with a meeting, right? I an, they aren't eating together every day or being called to mandatory slumber parties, correct?

 

Sigh....grace and emotional intelligence are dying arts......

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There are different management styles. Neither is right or wrong.

 

 

I worked at companies where departments routinely socialized & you were decidedly out of the loop if you skipped lunch with the group. I'm not talking about the gossip loop; these were quasi-working lunches & I saw more than one associate snag a coveted assignment as a result of those lunches. I also saw more than one subordinate get passed over because they weren't at the lunch so the plum job went to somebody else. All other things being equal, face time gets you advanced.

 

 

Some would employers would call lunch meetings. Those were announced in advance & the company paid for lunch.

 

 

Bear in mind all of these "mandatory" lunches were for exempt employees so over time was not an issue.

 

 

Daily lunch with the company could get old but if this is a once in a while thing, Bobbi I really think you have to suck it up.

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Oh, I think there's a line that can be crossed, but inviting everyone to a work lunch isn't one of them. Now, if every day the boss is trying to keep you at work and won't let you go run errands or have lunch with a friend, I get that. I once worked for a place that did that on Saturdays trying to keep everyone close at hand on their busiest day. But you didn't HAVE to do it.

 

I also have a friend whose crazy boss tried to encourage people to attend his lunchtime prayer meetings, but someone is crazy for staying employed there, which she did for 10 years.

 

But a nice boss having a group lunch for employees every now and then should be considered a nice gesture, and anyone having as much trouble fitting in as the OP, well, that's her issue, not his. He's trying to create a good work environment.

 

I don't like being required to attend baby showers at work. That's where I draw the line. I did have to go to some at one temp job, and I just ate the cake and signed the card and lived right through it. But that shouldn't be mandatory -- and it wasn't during lunch, so it was just another break from work that way.

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Empresario how do you go about hiring people, what's the screening process?

 

Great question.

 

 

I have done the majority of hiring in the past since we are still small. That is changing now that middle management is more established. But here is how I go about it:

 

 

1. You have to know your culture ahead of time.

 

 

Every person in our company can tell you our mission, 1/3/5 year vision, value proposition/unique, niche, elevator pitch, and core values. They keep leadership more honest than we even keep our selves sometimes. Every person knows what they do and how it helps out the over all vision.

 

 

2. The first interview is a discussion

 

 

I rarely ask a technical question the first interview. My philosophy is, if a person fits what I'm doing and is extremely intelligent I can train them up to know the rest. I will invest in an employee if I think they have a chance to succeed within our system. Kind of like football recruiting when you're not in a hot-bed.

 

 

This is usually 90% discussion and I only ask direct questions when the conversation fades. I don't think you have to grill someone to get to know them. And resumes are almost always a bend of the truth.

 

 

My favorite question is "what are five adjectives people would use to describe you". I write down all five. I then distract them with another question. I come back to the same question after it and ask them to repeat the five they said. I've found that if someone states the same adjective both times it's probably true. If they can't come up with five or have a majority difference in the two answers you have to question if they know themselves.

 

 

I also take this time to not only see how the culture reacts to them...but how they react to it. We have little micro management, very relaxed rules, and a family atmosphere. It is obviously not for everyone and I ask questions related to how they fit within it.

 

 

3. Project

 

 

This is when it gets technical. I give them a fairly extensive project that usually has a lot of writing. I feel like writing is a sure-fire way to gauge someone's technical intelligence. Even for programmers.

 

 

I will usually get 80% or so of people that actually do it. Those that won't do it wouldn't fit in our culture anyways. From that I have a nice pool from which to select.

 

 

4. Leadership/supervisor interview

 

 

If they made it this far I'm normally pretty certain they will fit. The last part is to get some of the leadership team or direct LMA to their future job around to ask any questions they have. Another perspective is usually appreciated. If they pass this I will usually start negotiating the offer.

 

 

-----

 

 

Important notes:

 

 

- We readjust our accountability chart, roles, team values, etc. every quarter. Every new person knows they will not just be a part of the culture but also help shape it.

 

 

- We allow new employees to ease in and find their perfect 3 roles. It's not strange to bring in an employee only to have them jump between a few jobs for the first 6-12 months while they onboard fully. That's why we aren't so concerned with technical fit. Culture and intelligence are way more important.

 

 

- During negotiation I usually ask someone what their ideal compensation package looks like. If it's more than I would expect I make a plan for them to earn it within 1 year of joining. Since we give employees goals every 3 months that they help shape...anyone can make any amount or get any type of compensation. They just have to earn it. If they are willing to do that then there's no problem.

 

 

---

 

 

I wrote that fast. Hopefully it makes sense.

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LuckyLady13
I fire employees for not fitting the culture

 

Oh I agree, live and let live is a motto of mine

 

:confused: Um...okay?

 

Maybe it will blow your mind even more to know we take our whole company on 2 paid retreats a year. One skiing, one lake. Both are optional. No one ever refuses to go.

 

I find it so sad that people are afraid to lose their job and are afraid to refuse to go.

 

Most people don't run companies this way, thankfully.

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:confused: Um...okay?

 

 

 

I find it so sad that people are afraid to lose their job and are afraid to refuse to go.

 

Most people don't run companies this way, thankfully.

 

I can see you are living in a very narrow, ignorant way. But that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion. I subscribe to the model that there's more than one way to live. Not everyone feels the same as you.

 

 

I'm not allowed to fire employees for being toxic to our culture? They can do exactly what they want. Sometimes that just doesn't line up with the company goals. I will still give them a recommendation. I will still care about their success. Having core values means you have to adhere to them.

 

 

You know what happens when I fire people? I've mentioned this before on here. They either thank me (as they knew it wasn't a fit either) or ask if I can continue mentoring and helping them personally. And I do. You think it's crazy, I don't. That's fine.

 

 

No one is scared of my company. I live in an area of the country with a notoriously low unemployment rate. I would even help them find a new job if they wanted. Communication here is very open and candid, and employees tell me things they dislike all the time. Funny that when they do that it actually gets resolved :).

 

 

Every man wakes up. Every man goes to bed. Being able to do whatever you want between those hours is the real dream. We just provide a way for people to live that way while still making a decent living. People here don't have 'jobs' and 'a life', their job is part of their life. I apologize that's not for you. I would never ask it to be.

 

 

So, we are in agreement despite the obstinacy you're giving me. Keep doing your thing, I wouldn't have it any other way. If everyone ran a company like me it would be harder to compete for talent that fits my vision.

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And what type of field are you in?

 

Is it sales?

 

Me personally? I'm a software entrepreneur. My background is in programming. I began my career as a corporate programmer. Mainly big data, machine learning, and integrations.

 

 

I have started 2 software companies and one service company. One was a compliance company, the other two are marketing companies. the services company was a mistake. It was profitable and I sold it at 25 employees. I believe it's at around 50 now. I just hated growing outward instead of upwards.

 

 

The company I own now is actually extremely well known. I won't say the industry because of that. If you're anywhere related to it you have heard of us. We are actually smaller than we appear from the outside. Software is good at hiding employee numbers :).

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:eek:

 

I wouldn't be at that lunch. There's no way.

 

When I worked for other people, my lunch time hit, I clocked out and my bosses watched me run out the door like the building was burning down! Not one ever had a problem with it.

 

I'm sorry but I had people to see, things to do, I had a life! I never had a boss who didn't understand that concept.Not once.

 

There was great Italian food for me to inhale from excellent restaurants, the car wash was on my to do list and I had a man to ravish for the short time I had if he was available. And when I got back to work, I was extremely happy and in a great mood so I think really, my bosses liked me leaving the way I did. And I got along with my coworkers just fine. Most of them were good people.

 

Being on the other side of that fence now, I think it's a sign of a sick mental disorder if your boss wants you to treat their business as if it's your own and wants you to buddy up with your coworkers as if you're all best friends now just because you work in the same place.Get along with your coworkers? Of course. But, not be best friends.

 

I think any boss who would want their employees to act like best friends and spend their ENTIRE DAY together is socially inept! People have lives.

 

And smart bosses know that if people aren't having fun (in their own way with their friends they have things in common with or their family they love), they will suffer burnout and be a hindrance rather than an asset to the company.

 

Really, you wouldn't kick it with you're coworkers for lunch? Not even on an appointed day? So you're too :cool: for us?

 

Well guess what? We don't need you. :p

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introverted1
I am a software guy. I can be multi-national while growing vertically, not horizontally. That's why our small, tight-knit team works extremely well.

 

I worked at a company like this. For those who fit in -- late 20's - early 30's, married, with kids -- it was great. Those outside that "norm" had a lot less fun and ultimately left (as I did) or were terminated (for being a "poor fit"). The company missed out on some good talent as a result, but did not see this as they were too busy evaluating employees based on "feel good" measures.

 

I think there is a happy medium to be found: spending 90 minutes with one's co-workers should not be considered an odious task; neither should companies become so insular that homogeneity and cliques develop. That's what good management is about.

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autumnnight

I'l admit to being an extrovert, and a person has to try very hard for me not to like them most of the time.

 

The last company I worked for just about drained the life out of me because the social skills and emotional intelligence of most f the people there were just....bad. It was a virtual company, so that probably explained it. Most everyone probably worked there so they WOULDN'T have to deal with people. The most emotionally stunted person there (who actually took meds for being anti-social as a disorder and some other things) was the one who seemed to get promoted, and every time a great salesperson or really good networker came on, they basically got stomped out within 6 months.

 

Now I work at a place where people are kind of like family. We are all different, but we care about our work AND each other. I LOVE going to work every day rather than cringe when my phone rings or my skype pings.

 

Okay, that was a ramble, but I have to say, I really do not understand why one lunch a week is the end of the world. And skiing? I would LOVE to go do a few days of fun with my coworkers.

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Oh I agree, live and let live is a motto of mine. And I acknowledge your differences in management. There is more than one way to run a company. My whole point to the OP was to consider a new job or try to engage in the culture to at least make an effort. Those are the only two options. Other people appreciate what's happening. She is the odd duck out and will have to make that decision on her own.

 

 

It's definitely not a competition and I'm sorry it came off that way. Although, it won't shock you to know one of my 5 strengths are competition, analytical, strategic, activator, and command. So while I don't mean to sound arrogant, rude, and stubborn,, that is the basement of my strength-set. :p. We spend a lot of time figuring out strengths here as well for that reason haha.

 

Yes, well, I am such a wilting violet. . . :laugh: No worries I share similar "strengths". My nickname at work is "bulldog".

 

I do agree, we don't all fit all company cultures and it is much easier to "drink the koolaid" when it aligns with your personal beliefs. But I do think there is a compromise. We want everyone to be behind our product and believe in what we do. But not everyone lives and breaths it. And that is okay. Sometimes you have employees that are there more for the commute, hours and pay. And that is okay. Not everyone feels the need to be as committed. You aren't going to raise to the top like that but that is okay. Not everyone can become a Director or VP.

 

If you like assessments, I highly recommend Talmetrics. Fantastic look into motivational, thinking and behavioral styles.

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Really, you wouldn't kick it with you're coworkers for lunch? Not even on an appointed day? So you're too :cool: for us?

 

Well guess what? We don't need you. :p

 

For me, there are a few yes, but, to be honest, there are a few that I would have no interest in seeing outside of work. They are not the type of people that I would care to be more than professional with. And I don't think that is bad. You don't have to be friends with everyone.

 

I think some of this may also be the difference between introverts and extroverts. Extroverts tend to like social events, introverts less so. I am great at my job but I am an introvert and all day company events, conferences, etc. leave me drained and needing some alone time. Constant human contact is exhausting for me. I know many introverts like me. We are successful in our careers, strong and assertive, but we need to spend some time alone because social events are just draining.

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:confused: Um...okay?

 

 

 

I find it so sad that people are afraid to lose their job and are afraid to refuse to go.

 

Most people don't run companies this way, thankfully.

 

Really?? That's what you take off it?

 

I have to say I always looked forward to an old company's Christmas dinner! I didn't always manage to make it, as I worked in TV and even though the dinner was always held at a walking distance venue, sometimes I had to work. But it was ALWAYS great fun. And most people went and looked forward to it. We always always ended up going out into town afterwards, which always made for great water cooler gossip and amazing hungover looks the next day.

 

Last year, one of the companies I work for threw a Christmas party. Open bar (up to a certain amount, which lasted most of the night!)! Not mandatory at all and most of my team showed up and we had a blast.

 

There was even talk of organising a team trip to a theme park and we were looking forward to it, but sadly things changed within the company and the it fell through.

 

Some people just actually really enjoy spending time with their colleagues, who may turn into friends. I have made many many friends through work.

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I can see you are living in a very narrow, ignorant way. But that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion. I subscribe to the model that there's more than one way to live. Not everyone feels the same as you.

 

 

I'm not allowed to fire employees for being toxic to our culture? They can do exactly what they want. Sometimes that just doesn't line up with the company goals. I will still give them a recommendation. I will still care about their success. Having core values means you have to adhere to them.

 

 

You know what happens when I fire people? I've mentioned this before on here. They either thank me (as they knew it wasn't a fit either) or ask if I can continue mentoring and helping them personally. And I do. You think it's crazy, I don't. That's fine.

 

 

No one is scared of my company. I live in an area of the country with a notoriously low unemployment rate. I would even help them find a new job if they wanted. Communication here is very open and candid, and employees tell me things they dislike all the time. Funny that when they do that it actually gets resolved :).

 

 

Every man wakes up. Every man goes to bed. Being able to do whatever you want between those hours is the real dream. We just provide a way for people to live that way while still making a decent living. People here don't have 'jobs' and 'a life', their job is part of their life. I apologize that's not for you. I would never ask it to be.

 

 

So, we are in agreement despite the obstinacy you're giving me. Keep doing your thing, I wouldn't have it any other way. If everyone ran a company like me it would be harder to compete for talent that fits my vision.

 

Wow, that was very insulting. That wasn't what the poster was saying at all and you took it to an extreme. You didn't say you were firing people who were toxic, you said you were firing people who didn't the culture. That is a far lower bar on expectation and not unreasonable that others would feel that is a very narrow minded way of managing.

 

I find this common with entrepreneurs/owners. They feel that people should love what they do because they do. But unless you are calling the shots, if ou are lower down it is less likely to love things as much because you have little ability to effect change.

 

But calling the poster narrow minded, obstinate, and ignorant is not a way to win friends and influence enemies. It is very condescending.

 

You have done that with me and a few posters now when they give an opposing opinion. If you are so confident in how you do this, and really feel it is revolutionary then you should welcome the debate/discourse to further educate.

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Wow, that was very insulting. That wasn't what the poster was saying at all and you took it to an extreme. You didn't say you were firing people who were toxic, you said you were firing people who didn't the culture. That is a far lower bar on expectation and not unreasonable that others would feel that is a very narrow minded way of managing.

 

I find this common with entrepreneurs/owners. They feel that people should love what they do because they do. But unless you are calling the shots, if ou are lower down it is less likely to love things as much because you have little ability to effect change.

 

But calling the poster narrow minded, obstinate, and ignorant is not a way to win friends and influence enemies. It is very condescending.

 

You have done that with me and a few posters now when they give an opposing opinion. If you are so confident in how you do this, and really feel it is revolutionary then you should welcome the debate/discourse to further educate.

 

In the thread you are mentioning, there was little to debate/discuss. I feel my response had substance and was generous towards someone that has perpetually committed the 'begging the question' fallacy by assuming my employees hate me, each other, and their jobs.

 

To me, that's close-minded. I refuse to believe he/she has led another employee because their ability to empathize with another's point of view is non-existent. But, thank you, dear bulldog, for spiraling the discussion into an even deeper abyss.

 

In truth, this whole conversation doesn't matter. For all I care, you can assume my companies, past, present, future, are doomed to fail and my leadership style inadequate. The benefit of this my internet persona has no pride nor feels any sadness from the lecture.

 

I will, politically and humbly, withdrawal from this conversation. I find it unproductive. You may assume what you'd like from it. Our meddle will be evident via the success we obtain and lives we impact.

 

Good luck and I wish you both the best.

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It sounds like this is a wrong fit for you. You don't like your co-workers nor the work culture. What keeps you there?

 

A steady paycheck keeps me there. Like I said, I do participate in team building activities-I don't mind them, because sometimes we play games, etc, etc. But having to eat lunch, socialize and pretend that we are friends is really unnecessary. I don't see the point of me even being "social" with them on a friends level, because in the past-every time I would initiate a convo with them-they would just give me the cold shoulder or exclude me later on. I'm tired of trying. Everyone has their own best friends. Even if I would have gone, and not said anything, some smart ass would call me out on why I haven't said anything during that lunch/meeting, plus my smart ass supervisor would say something. My supervisor just wants to make a mockery out of me, plus so do my co-workers. And no, I didn't go to work today, I called in.

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Bobbi, you're giving no one any reason to trust you at all. I imagine when they worry about being stabbed in the back at work, it's you they think might do it since you're hostile to them. It's normal not to like a person or two at work but it's part of any job to act polite and professional despite that.

 

I will way that a business lunch shouldn't be mandatory all the time. I think people should get to have their break. May company would normally let everyone take their lunch break but then tell them there's a lunch afterwards, so it's not taking up their off time. And they remain clocked in. And the boss pays. It's all good.

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LuckyLady13

Bobbi7, while I do understand why you called in, I am disappointed that you felt that's what you had to do in this situation. Is it possible for you to find work somewhere else? Because whatever environment is going on at this particular job doesn't suit you. There's probably something much better for you where you will just plain like the people you work with because they're pleasant to be around.

 

I did realize after my original posts on this subject that I'm in one of the most major (and densely populated) areas of the US. I wasn't thinking when I posted earlier about my travels around the US and how different things are in other areas. And I think in less populated areas, it becomes almost necessary to "make friends" at work because otherwise, you won't really have friends.

 

I think how close knit a company is may rely in large part on how populated the area is where the company resides. In my area, if you're making friends at work, you're a socially awkward weirdo who has no friends. That's just how it is around here. I realize it's not like that everywhere.

 

However, not everyone is a social animal and some people are seriously exhausted by being around people for too many hours and need time to decompress and unwind (I'm not one of them) and that's what makes us individuals. To try to pin down someone who needs their own space into a social environment longer than necessary is cruel. The same way it would be cruel to keep someone like me in a room alone all day. Or with just a coworker or two.

 

And if I thought my company, the job I offer people is enough to keep them insanely happy and they shouldn't desire going out and having fun on their own off time? I'd be an uncaring, unsympathetic, egotistical jackass.

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LuckyLady13
Really, you wouldn't kick it with you're coworkers for lunch? Not even on an appointed day? So you're too :cool: for us?

 

Well guess what? We don't need you. :p

 

Now, Jay, I've seen your posts around and you're a lighthearted person and have a great sense of humor. My kind of people so you're way :cool:! But, if you were me...and you had a choice between a bit of sexy time with your SO (an awesome sweaty hot quickie during lunch with the sexiest person you know) or spend MORE TIME with coworkers, what would you pick?

 

As :cool: as you are, I'd have to split. Well! You would too!

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