I'm getting more sexually frustrated and thinking of proposing

[oldshirt]

You are just simply wrong. I grew up in religeon. And not having sex before marriage was normal. And the newly married and not so newly married women talked about getting it on after and how wonderful it was. Don't make assumptions about something you are not apart of.

 

 

 

Oh trust me, growing up 40 years ago in a farming community of 350 people in the middle of the Midwest, I am very familiar with people abstaining for religious reasons.

 

 

However in those instances people were constantly fighting their raging hormones and burning desires and were climbing the walls and miserable with frustration.

 

 

They also had short courtships and short engagements by today's standards. It was not unusual to marry high school sweethearts within a year or so of high school graduation.

 

 

What is different between that scenario and the one being presented here is the women were also climbing the walls with frustration and were about as miserable an anxious to do the deed as the men.

 

 

In this case she is perfectly happy being celibate and maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anything about her religion or religious beliefs being mentioned here. I have I seen is that she has said she wanted to wait.

 

 

What hasn't been mentioned is why she wants to wait and for how long. Nothing has indicated that she isn't perfectly happy waiting indefinitely or even forever.

[oldshirt]

I went back and read through all of SF's posts to see if I was overlooking something.

 

Here is what I was and was not able to find-

 

- there is no mention of religion or regions beliefs. There isn't even a mention of her attending attending so much as a Sunday church service (I'm not saying she doesn't, just saying he hasn't uttered a word about religion.

 

- there is also no mention of her orgasming from dry humping.

 

- what he does say is they were making out/dry humping and she made him stop.

 

- she has shut down all his attempts to initiate sexual activity.

..........for a year.

 

- no other rational has been given for their abstinence other than she wants to "wait."

 

- she has been sexually active with other people before.

 

- he is very inhibited, introverted and sexually inexperienced.

 

- his list of things they have in common is they both like kids and Chinese food.

 

- he states he does wish a sexual relationship and does wish an intimate long term relationship with somebody.

 

- he admits doubts of finding someone else in an acceptable timeframe if this relationship ends.

 

- he does not mention a word about religion in regards to himself or about any religious beliefs or convictions of his own that preclude sexual activity prior to marriage.

 

- his previously nonjudgmental friends and relatives that do not like her and do not think she is a good match for him.

 

Those are the facts we have as he has stated them.

[oldshirt]

Oops I failed to mention a biggee.

 

- he states she is perfectly ok with their relationship being non sexual and shows no signs of being frustrated or dissatisfied.

[oldshirt]

When I add all that up together, I am not coming away with an image in my minds eye of a woman who is into him and wants to be intimate with him, but is being held back by any religious or personal convictions.

 

I am coming away seeing someone who is kinda nutty and dysfunctional at best who is not sexually attracted to him at best.

 

At worst I can see someone who is not into him at all and not attracted to him, but is in this for completely other agendas such as financial support to finish school, security and what not. Further investigation may even show she is currently sexually active with someone(s) else and is getting her sexual/fun/excitement needs met elsewhere.

 

This doesn't strike me as two naive, innocent kids with shared religious convictions to hold themselves pure untill marriage.

 

This is a "run Forest run!" Situation.

[Gloria25]

When I add all that up together, I am not coming away with an image in my minds eye of a woman who is into him and wants to be intimate with him, but is being held back by any religious or personal convictions.

 

I am coming away seeing someone who is kinda nutty and dysfunctional at best who is not sexually attracted to him at best.

 

At worst I can see someone who is not into him at all and not attracted to him, but is in this for completely other agendas such as financial support to finish school, security and what not. Further investigation may even show she is currently sexually active with someone(s) else and is getting her sexual/fun/excitement needs met elsewhere.

 

This doesn't strike me as two naive, innocent kids with shared religious convictions to hold themselves pure untill marriage.

 

This is a "run Forest run!" Situation.

 

Exacta, freakin' mundo ^^

 

But, I'm sure he won't. Like others posted here - he figure "something" is better than "nothing".

 

Oh well, for me "Mejor sola que mal acompanada" - which is "I rather be alone than in bad company".

 

But, the issue is that he can't see it cuz he has blue balls. Also, the "re-virgining" aspect of her little game makes her look like such a "saint" in his eyes - where he thinks he lucked out in finding a "nice, sweet" and/or "reformed" girl, when fact is, she found a "sucker" and now can sit back and get fat and lazy when in the past she had to get on her back and/or give out bjs just to get guy's attention.

 

And the tricky thing her is she probably may "like" him a bit - which also confuses him, but she sees him more as her roommate rather than lover. When I saw "Who the Bleep" the other day about that chick who had kid after kid with a dude that she said from day one she really wasn't into, my mind was warped...I never thought women could actually consider having kids and playing house with a guy they really didn't like much. But some women are like that...the want the fantasy of a marriage, home and kids and men are just "income" and "sperm donors".

 

Freakin' cold byaches out there if you ask me...

 

But then again, I'm not surprised. I know of a chick who kept on forcing marriage, etc with a dude who already had kids, was a drunk and didn't have his crap together. She had to go through IVF to have the kid - but she wanted a "family" at all costs. Well, over the years, she's cheated on him (and I think him on her) and she's paid for all his "toys" and says she wants out, but she won't do it cuz of her finances (even though she's the higher breadwinner) and devastation to their child.

 

So, go figure...some women just want what they want and guys are just a "means to an end" for them to get it.

 

But, I'm tired of responding to this thread. The OP is gonna do like most people do and a couple of years down the road is gonna be repenting but in too deep to do anything about it....Threads like this exist cuz seems like every day a sucker is born...and, I see these scenarios happening every flippin' day.

[Timshel]

Exacta, freakin' mundo ^^

 

Freakin' cold byaches out there if you ask me...

 

 

Indeed.

[Phoe]

I know there's 6 pages of responses that I haven't read but...

 

No.

 

no no no no no. No.

 

NO!!!

 

Do not marry her under these conditions. No!!

[Gloria25]

I know there's 6 pages of responses that I haven't read but...

 

No.

 

no no no no no. No.

 

NO!!!

 

Do not marry her under these conditions. No!!

 

And you know what Phoe, I remember your thread about refusing your proposal from that dude and I always wanted to tell you how I admired you for having some cojones - especially when I read threads about your dating woes (like me).

 

It's hard to resolve to be alone....it really is.

 

I tried to get married when I first joined the military out of loneliness. Over the years I tried dating guys with kids. Shoot, I've even had a guy ask me flat out if I'd change my religion and it burned me to say "no" and I really, really, liked him...

 

It's hard to stick to your guns - but then, when I look around at people who just want out of their sucky marriage/situation I am like I rather be alone than in prison.

 

I used to watch my mum and dad...I saw her give up her career, money, etc and literally was "stuck" with my dad. I will NEVER, EVER give up my freedom and/or money just to have a warm body in my bed - cuz that's what it boils down to - a warm body in your bed. Cuz, if they aren't meeting your needs (i.e. financial, sexual, emotional) all you're left is with a warm body next to you.

[Gloria25]

And this thread is why I hate to say it, but I'm glad for the women's movement and the fact that we live in different times...

 

I don't have to get married if I wanna get laid anymore...and, my choices in life are not just to default into marriage/kids. I can actually "chose" who I want to build a life with.

 

There was a time (and probably still in some parts of the world and/or small towns like oldshirt was alluding to) where the only way you could get laid and/or have someone take care of you financially is/was getting married and condemned to children and some guy you probably got picked for by your parents and/or "he'll just do - I guess"....

 

Not no more...

 

Also, eh, part of me doesn't care what the OP does anyway, cuz seems like most marriages aren't even about the man and woman - once kids come along, the focus is the kids/bills and by the time the kids are up and gone either the couple is too old/fat/undesirable to move on to someone else and just "coast" until death and/or they separate based on "middle aged crises" when fact is now that the kids are up and gone they're like "halelujah" I did me debt to society and can now actually enjoy life for once cuz my spouse sucked from day one.

[preraph]

It's clear you don't know her well enough to get married to her at this time. You don't even understand why she's withholding sex. You should just ask her very calmly to explain the logic behind that. And then you might tell her you'd want to have sex before marrying someone. I honestly don't think that's an unfair thing, that is, if you take marriage seriously. Because what if you are not at all compatible in bed and now you're stuck with each other? Plus unless she's adequately explained why she's doing this, what if she is actually just avoiding sex because she doesn't like sex?

 

Don't marry just because you're horny. If the relationship isn't progressing as you hoped it would, take a step back and maybe tell her you should both date other people as well.

[autumnnight]

Noirek, I see your point well and of course you're right, but what's fishy to me is that she was OK with sex before and now suddenly with OP she's not? It's something that would help him a lot, but she denies it.

 

Sure, sometimes people have life changing experiences in their lives and it makes their behavior change. The younger or more vulnerable a person is, the more dramatic this effect can be, but it just reeks, sorry.

 

It's more (to me, of course I have no idea like everybody else here) like she's messing with him. A tease, or trying to get something out of him and when things get too close, she'll run (what I think), or maybe just a game. No matter what, my best advice for the OP is to get out fast! If for no other reason, because he's not thinking rationally. No offense OP, but you're thinking with your nuts, not your brain.

 

It's totally up to you how to proceed. You came here looking for advice, you got it. For what it's worth, I think under the current circumstances and without knowing her intention (as Noirek pointed out), asking her to marry you would be the act of a desperate fool. Just don't do it!

 

Ken

 

I understand that people who did not grow up with Biblical Chrsitianty are having trouble with this.

 

Here's the deal. The whole Christian deal is that we are all sinners, and we become Christians by repenting of our sin and turning to God and then not committing those sins anymore.

 

So a woman who slept with her boyfriends could be "convicted" about her wrongness, rededicate herself to God (or become a Christian to begin with), and decide that regardless of her past, from this day forward she was going to do what she felt was right.

 

Honestly, this whole "well she had sex before" is a bit like scolding someone for not shoplifting a shirt because "well, she used to shoplift back in high school..."

 

If she has had a spiritual awakening, she may well have different convictions now.

 

So if you haven;t actually BEEN a part of that kind of church/faith and you are saying "nope sorry wrong," with respect, you don't know what you are talking about. Period.

 

Now, that said, this OP needs to have frank, honest, and specific talks about how she sees marital sex, however. Because sometimes the "pious" prior to marriage become the "frigid prude" after marriage. However, if they are making out and handsy and dry humping....signs could be hopefully that she actually has desires. But it ALL needs to be talked about thoroughly.

 

It;s rather insulting to say a woman who won't sleep with a man before she marries him isn't marriage material. For some people that is an important part of their faith.

[oldshirt]

I understand that people who did not grow up with Biblical Chrsitianty are having trouble with this.

 

Here's the deal. The whole Christian deal is that we are all sinners, and we become Christians by repenting of our sin and turning to God and then not committing those sins anymore.

 

So a woman who slept with her boyfriends could be "convicted" about her wrongness, rededicate herself to God (or become a Christian to begin with), and decide that regardless of her past, from this day forward she was going to do what she felt was right.

 

Honestly, this whole "well she had sex before" is a bit like scolding someone for not shoplifting a shirt because "well, she used to shoplift back in high school..."

 

If she has had a spiritual awakening, she may well have different convictions now.

 

So if you haven;t actually BEEN a part of that kind of church/faith and you are saying "nope sorry wrong," with respect, you don't know what you are talking about. Period.

 

Now, that said, this OP needs to have frank, honest, and specific talks about how she sees marital sex, however. Because sometimes the "pious" prior to marriage become the "frigid prude" after marriage. However, if they are making out and handsy and dry humping....signs could be hopefully that she actually has desires. But it ALL needs to be talked about thoroughly.

 

It;s rather insulting to say a woman who won't sleep with a man before she marries him isn't marriage material. For some people that is an important part of their faith.

 

 

 

I would have a bit different tone and tune to this thread if there was some kind of mention of religious convictions or religious beliefs or anything whatsoever about religion being a part of this scenario, but if you review every single one of his posts, you will not see one single word being mentioned about religion or religious convictions or anything of the sort factoring in to their abstinence. Not one word.

 

 

It's other posters that are jumping to the conclusion that this is some kind of religious conversion or something. He hasn't said a word about religion being a factor for either her or him.

 

 

An in regards to making out and dry humping, this is coming from a 25 year old virgin talking about his first GF. For all we know this make out and dry hump session could have been 15 seconds.

 

 

The only specifics that he has said about the make out/dry hump is that she told him to stop and thwarted his efforts to escalate it further.

 

 

Others are bringing religious factors and beliefs and practices into this discussion. Simplefellow hasn't mentioned anything about religion once.

[oldshirt]

 

It;s rather insulting to say a woman who won't sleep with a man before she marries him isn't marriage material. For some people that is an important part of their faith.

 

 

 

It would be an important part of their faith if faith was the reason behind the abstinence and they hadn't already been screwing others.

 

 

Sorry but for 99% of men, if you screwed half the town previously but now that you are dating them you suddenly have religious principles and morals and are trying to reclaim your long lost virginity and are going to hold on to it until marriage now??? Most men are simply going to say - next!!!!

 

 

The exception might would be some religious guy she met in church that has some kind of white-knight syndrome that want's to rescue her from her own tainted past. But most likely it would be some naïve, inexperienced chump that is just glad to have any woman giving him the time of day. No other guy is going to be chump that has to wait until she has a ring on her finger and her name on house before he gets to get what all the other guys had for free.

 

 

yeah yeah yeah, I get it, some people do some things that they look back on and realize it's not really for them and they adapt a new set of mores and ethics and change their ways; sure we can all change our ways if we think we can do better. We all have room for some redemption.

 

 

I just don't think that's really what is going on here. So far nothing he has said indicates that this has anything to do with religious beliefs or practices at all.

 

 

To me it just sounds like some dingy chick who isn't all that into him that just has some other kind of agenda on her mind. It would be in his best interests to find out what that agenda is.

[Gloria25]

You know, this whole "witholding sex" crap even works on guys who can get laid.

 

I was thinking of Don Jon - the movie and while Scarlet's character liked Don, she at the end of the day was more preoccupied with having a guy she could control.

 

Don Jon (2013) - IMDb

 

Like one point in the movie, they were going up to her place and she pushed her butt into him and let him feel her up and she was like "noooo, not now baby" and it worked!!! She'd also trott around in these skimpy little dresses - all while like "no, no sex".

 

One day they were out shopping and that's when she let her fangs out when she ordered him to get a maid to clean up his place. Mind you, this is a guy who could get whatever woman he wanted and also masturbated to porn, but when she started withholding sex, he didn't care about the club gals anymore.

 

Gotta love these manipulative and controlling chicks. They got game - Gloria25 doesn't. But, at least I can sleep well knowing I don't play games and/or have to control a guy to want/have me.