Changing My Mind On Spankings

[lollipopspot]

I think what the OP can probably use most is education and advice. He recognizes a problem. Let's help him with parenting skills and dealing with the mother

 

For some people, given how they were raised, not spanking/hitting is a foreign concept, and they don't really know how else to discipline.

[anika99]

I was spanked occasionally as a kid. I don't think it was really necessary for me, because I would take a harsh word or look pretty seriously, and getting spanked felt like too much. But some kids I knew were such lunkheads that I can see how spanking might be the only way to get their attention. It's hard to say. When you let yourself cross that line, you have to think about why you're really doing it. Is it for the kid or for you? It better be for the kid, and maybe you should check your own emotions before you decide.

 

It's obvious when you look around that many parents completely fail at discipline, and some of those are the ones whose jaws drop in horror at the idea of spanking a child. Well, fine, but if you aren't going to spank them, then at least make sure your bite is worse than your bark. My jaw drops in disgust at the sight of a child working over a parent.

 

 

Were you spanked as a baby? Do you think some babies are such lunkheads that they deserve to be hit with a belt.

 

 

I get what you are saying about discipline being a necessary part of parenting but this thread really isn't about discipline or a debate on the merits and faults on corporal punishment. It's about a BABY who is being HIT with a BELT. To me this falls way outside of the usual arguments for and against spankings and is a clear case of child abuse.

[TaraMaiden2]

I think what the OP can probably use most is education and advice. He recognizes a problem.

Yes, but I don't believe he realises just how much of a problem it is...

 

Let's help him with parenting skills and dealing with the mother

 

OK: How about this?

He says to the mother/daughter:

"Let me catch you just one more time even picking a belt up, and so help me Child protection services are going to get a call from me that will teach you a lesson you won't forget."

 

Then he cuts the belt to pieces. How's that?

 

For some people, given how they were raised, not spanking/hitting is a foreign concept, and they don't really know how else to discipline.

I can't really believe that.

Ignorance may be understandable, but violence is inexcusable in anyone's book.

There is so much information on Child development, upbringing, Psychology and behaviour, that anyone resorting to hitting a child of that age, with a belt, must be living in a remote cave.

In their heads.

[anika99]

I think what the OP can probably use most is education and advice. He recognizes a problem. Let's help him with parenting skills and dealing with the mother

 

For some people, given how they were raised, not spanking/hitting is a foreign concept, and they don't really know how else to discipline.

 

 

The OP said the mother's teenage daughter never got spanked so apparently she used to know how not to abuse babies.

[lollipopspot]

The OP said the mother's teenage daughter never got spanked so apparently she used to know how not to abuse babies.

 

He says she was a different kind of baby.

 

Hey, I agree this is bad. But my experience with parents specifically is that they mostly can do what they want to their kids (except for the freak times that child services gets involved, and their involvement is inconsistent), and are often very defensive when their parenting is called into question. If someone is shamed to the degree that they don't want to come back and get help, that doesn't help the child.

 

I don't know that blowing up the relationship with the mother is ultimately what's best for the child, because defensiveness often makes people shut down and dig in harder. This probably will require some care to fix.

[anika99]

Yes, but I don't believe he realises just how much of a problem it is...

 

 

 

OK: How about this?

He says to the mother/daughter:

"Let me catch you just one more time even picking a belt up, and so help me Child protection services are going to get a call from me that will teach you a lesson you won't forget."

 

Then he cuts the belt to pieces. How's that?

 

 

I can't really believe that.

Ignorance may be understandable, but violence is inexcusable in anyone's book.

There is so much information on Child development, upbringing, Psychology and behaviour, that anyone resorting to hitting a child of that age, with a belt, must be living in a remote cave.

In their heads.

 

 

Well said! This is no time for the OP to be a wimp or to cow tow to his gf. If he loves his son then he needs to be a man about this and defend his child. And I don't believe the mother doesn't know any better either. For one thing these aren't teenage parents, it's not possible that they have never heard or seen anything anywhere about proper child rearing and for another thing she has teenage daughter who was apparently never hit.

 

 

Now I have to stay away from this thread. Everytime I come back to it I feel enraged on this baby's behalf all over again and there is nothing I can do to help him. I hope one day somebody sees the gf abusing him and reports it immediately. Maybe just maybe the OP isn't as much of a child abuser as the mother is and will put a stop to it.

[Timshel]

Ok. Let's calm down. OP, No person on this thread thinks what is happening is responsible and people are feeling that this is child abuse.

 

Is your girlfriend's choice of discipline ok? NO Are her parenting skills acceptable? NO

 

Question answered and as an adult witnessing abusive behavior toward a child, the hope is that you will step up and intervene.

 

Do you understand the concerns of everyone who has posted and are you willing to protect this child?

[anika99]

He says she was a different kind of baby.

 

Hey, I agree this is bad. But my experience with parents specifically is that they mostly can do what they want to their kids (except for the freak times that child services gets involved, and their involvement is inconsistent), and are often very defensive when their parenting is called into question. If someone is shamed to the degree that they don't want to come back and get help, that doesn't help the child.

 

I don't know that blowing up the relationship with the mother is ultimately what's best for the child, because defensiveness often makes people shut down and dig in harder. This probably will require some care to fix.

 

 

You're right. I don't think this mother will be at all receptive to any suggestions that she not do this. If she can look at her sweet baby in the face while she whips him with a belt and not feel horrible then I don't think she can be reasoned with no matter how nicely she is approached. I think if the OP tries to talk her out of this behavior she will get angry at him, tell him she is right and he doesn't know what he is talking about. She is past the point of being reasoned with. The only thing that will make her stop is consequences. Let her feel the shame of having child services on her doorstep, let her feel the fear of having her child taken away from her. Those things might get through to her, because as I said, anyone who can routinely hit their baby with a belt and not feel really sh*tty for doing that, probably can't comprehend why beating a baby is wrong and will only understand actual consequences.

[Timshel]

The only connection we have to this child is through the OP.

[dragon_fly_7]

I really want to hope this poor baby doesn't later on suffer from resentment. I sometimes still resent my father for spanking me with a belt as a small kid and I wasn't a baby then.

 

For me it was gotten to the point that I never want a bf like my father.

[Brigit1]

I think my dad had spankings down to a science.

 

He'd yell at you, call you over and give you the lightest swat ever right on the ass. It didn't hurtat all, but boy did it ever make you cry and help you remember not to be bad.

 

Then there was my mom who loves the wooden spoon. Never saw her more angry in my life than when she was chasing me around the house, beating me with that thing and she broke it on me!!

 

I actually laughed hysterically and she got very mad.

 

Then there was my step father. Waking me up at 4:30am before school to trash my room and throw me around. My friends wanted to jump him with a bat. Huge guy. Abused me terribly and caused me to move out of the house and be homeless as a senior in High school.

 

I'd say my dad's approach was the only one that actually worked.

 

Some of your posts are so arrogant but then you make one like this and it makes me want to cry.

 

(I hope you meet a nice girl. Hugs.)

[Els]

I can't see ANY justification for hitting a 16-month-old with a belt, period. And this is coming from someone who grew up in a culture where corporal punishment was considered 'normal'.

[Haydn]

Got the odd slap from Dad.

 

Only once did i see red in his eyes.......

 

But i did crash his car after taking it quietly away in the dead of night to race around the manor with my mates.

 

We all got arrested. When my Dad arrived the Police restrained him from beating the ....out us.

 

I`ll give the kids a smack occasionally. Nothing that hurts. But punishment is much more effective. (As it is with adults)

 

But a 16 month old?????????

 

NO.

[dragon_fly_7]

Some of your posts are so arrogant but then you make one like this and it makes me want to cry.

 

(I hope you meet a nice girl. Hugs.)

I was about to say the same thing. This guy is the type to argue back and apply the ''but they started it first'' mentality and thinking getting back at someone teaches them a lesson. I didn't agree what he posted in one of my threads. Then I just noticed where exactly he's coming from with that background. No wonder he's like that.

 

Hard to come up with great values/morals with such poor role models.

[loveweary11]

I was about to say the same thing. This guy is the type to argue back and apply the ''but they started it first'' mentality and thinking getting back at someone teaches them a lesson. I didn't agree what he posted in one of my threads. Then I just noticed where exactly he's coming from with that background. No wonder he's like that.

 

Hard to come up with great values/morals with such poor role models.

 

Exactly. I take violence very seriously. It's not tolerated in my relationships. Nobody hits me or they get hit back (with equivalent force), though it's never happened. I make my intolerance for violence very clear to everyone im with.

 

Where the fallout really is.... is that I don't like men. This is why I'm only around women, I think.

Edited June 26, 2015 by loveweary11

[dragon_fly_7]

Exactly. I take violence very seriously. It's not tolerated in my relationships.

I had poor role models too and one of them being my father (there was a time I was spanked with a belt in anger for not knowing the right answer to a math homework).

With me, violence also had an impact towards me as an adult. I take it so seriously to the point that I don't even want to stay arguing back nor even fighting back someone with anger issues, not even if they started it. I wouldn't tolerate it in any relationship either but I would also feel being violent back to him for the sake of ''teaching him a lesson'' would be lowering myself, doesn't mean I'm tolerating it. I would still break up and report him...same thing with anyone else. I would only hit back if I'm really in fear for my life and there is no other option.

 

I've grown up disgusted to the point that I don't even have the energy in me to hit back someone nor even spank a child.

Edited June 26, 2015 by dragon_fly_7

[loveweary11]

I had poor role models too and one of them being my father (there was a time I was spanked with a belt for not knowing the right answer to a math homework).

With me, violence also had an impact towards me as an adult. I take it so seriously to the point that I don't even want to stay arguing back nor even fighting back someone with anger issues, not even if they started it. I wouldn't tolerate it in any relationship either but I would also feel being violent back to him would be lowering myself, doesn't mean I'm tolerating. I would break up and report him.

 

 

That math homework thing is horrible.

 

Same here, for the most part. I actually have a problem where I don't know how to handle violence. If I get in a fight with a guy, the odds are I'll probably kill the other person trying to fight. I don't like violence. I don't want to ever be around it. I don't understand those middle grounds like a fist fight. If someone was punching me, I'd probably use a weapon on them. I'm 0-100 in half a second with guys to get it over with because I hate violence.

 

With women, it's entirely different. I don't get freaked out by that, but still tolerate no violence. And I've never had any because I make it very clear from the start.

 

Also, my female "hit back" is more like my Dad above.. or swatting a dog on the nose with a newspaper. A startle, so they know it's not ok. But.. it's never come up because they get it verbally.

Edited June 26, 2015 by loveweary11

[Brigit1]

I was about to say the same thing. This guy is the type to argue back and apply the ''but they started it first'' mentality and thinking getting back at someone teaches them a lesson. I didn't agree what he posted in one of my threads. Then I just noticed where exactly he's coming from with that background. No wonder he's like that.

 

Hard to come up with great values/morals with such poor role models.

 

That's vey perceptive!

 

A child's brain is fragile and they look to their parents as God's. Essentially, to the child your parents are God since they control your very survival. That power is often placed in incapable hands.

[dragon_fly_7]

That math homework thing is horrible.

 

Same here, for the most part. I actually have a problem where I don't know how to handle violence. If I get in a fight with a guy, the odds are I'll probably kill the other person trying to fight. I don't like violence. I don't want to ever be around it. I don't understand those middle grounds like a fist fight. If someone was punching me, I'd probably use a weapon on them. I'm 0-100 in half a second with guys to get it over with because I hate violence.

 

With women, it's entirely different. I don't get freaked out by that, but still tolerate no violence. And I've never had any because I make it very clear from the start.

 

Also, my female "hit back" is more like my Dad above.. or swatting a dog on the nose with a newspaper. A startle, so they know it's not ok. But.. it's never come up because they get it verbally.

Yeah you're different from me. My reaction is of backing away in disgust and getting away from that person than of getting back at them in anger. I'm more like adverse to violence as a whole, even adverse to using it myself in anger.

[jsp32020]

Wow, I didn't expected big debate but the replies... I guess there's nothing I can say in defense that will change your minds but he's still a happy baby that we expose a lot to, he still loves his parents and does not run around in fear. He has not shown violent tendencies or anything at this point. This is not an everyday occurrence, but having it around as warning is the usual thing.

 

I did speak with her last night about this, she listened for the most part, and we did finally agree to go ahead and fully implement time out punishments for now, which we have started using to a degree. If there is any sort of corporal punishment it will come down the line when his reasoning advances. I mentioned the part about her daughter, who by the way is a sweet girl that loves to play with him and for the record does not actually follow through with it. Moving forward all matters of discipline will be handled by the parents.

It did go better than I thought it would.

[anika99]

OP of course your baby loves you. To a baby, his parents are his whole world and a baby doesn't know when he is being mistreated. All babies love their parents and that's what makes it especially sad when parents abuse their children

 

 

 

 

I hope your last post was truthful but I have my doubts. Hard for me to believe that this baby abusing woman is suddenly going to change her ways due to one conversation. Just wait until your baby pisses her off and see what she does.

 

 

I appreciate that you felt like hitting him with a belt was wrong and are taking steps to change that. Now you know what everyone else thinks about hitting a baby too (although it's amazing that you didn't already know what people would think). I'm worried for your baby because when babies become 2 and 3yr olds i they really start to try your patience. If your gf is hitting your baby now, I'm afraid of what she will do to him when he really does go through a stage of being defiant and difficult. Remember, discipline is used for teaching a child, not as way to release your own frustration and stress.

[anika99]

Exactly. I take violence very seriously. It's not tolerated in my relationships. Nobody hits me or they get hit back (with equivalent force), though it's never happened. I make my intolerance for violence very clear to everyone im with.

 

Where the fallout really is.... is that I don't like men. This is why I'm only around women, I think.

 

Sorry for going completely off topic but just wanted to say that it's not healthy to dislike an entire gender, especially your own gender.

 

 

I actually don't trust men who don't like other men and don't have male friends. The guys I have met who don't have any true male friends and instead surround themselves with women have all had emotional issues up the ying yang. I've noticed the same thing about women who dislike other women.

[jsp32020]

OP of course your baby loves you. To a baby, his parents are his whole world and a baby doesn't know when he is being mistreated. All babies love their parents and that's what makes it especially sad when parents abuse their children

 

 

 

 

I hope your last post was truthful but I have my doubts. Hard for me to believe that this baby abusing woman is suddenly going to change her ways due to one conversation. Just wait until your baby pisses her off and see what she does.

 

 

I appreciate that you felt like hitting him with a belt was wrong and are taking steps to change that. Now you know what everyone else thinks about hitting a baby too (although it's amazing that you didn't already know what people would think). I'm worried for your baby because when babies become 2 and 3yr olds i they really start to try your patience. If your gf is hitting your baby now, I'm afraid of what she will do to him when he really does go through a stage of being defiant and difficult. Remember, discipline is used for teaching a child, not as way to release your own frustration and stress.

 

Time outs had already been discussed just not consistently used so it wasn't like I just brought it up out the blue and she said ok. She listened to me, I didn't say it went smooth just better than I thought.

[littleplanet]

Well OP,

I commend you for having the decency and the courage to come back.

 

Here, we can all be flies on the wall, and hear stories about what our childhood memories have been and done, where it leaves us as grownups, what we learned, and where it takes us on our roads.

 

When I was a kid, I thought my father's discipline was over the top.

it probably was.

As a teenager, (after leaving home) I had a few dark moments wondering would I grow up to do the same?

 

I raised two rowdy boys (and one stepdaughter) and my oldest boy knew my righteous wrath (corporally) at age 5.......over a period of about 2 weeks - for refusing to stop abusing our kitten.

(I thought at the time I was raising an animal psychopath.)

 

What broke that fever?

The one day, finally, after being at my wit's end, when I quietly sat down on the edge of his bed, took a deep breath, and talked to him......man to man, so to speak. Talked.....WITH him.

 

His mom used the wooden spoon, and a lot of furious yelling, hollering, screaming and swatting about the ears..........because he knew exactly how to push her buttons.

I used to point out to him - not a good idea to push those buttons. I didn't happen to have those buttons, but she obviously did.

Funny thing about that. She - was his rock. Absolutely. Real passion there.

 

The one thing most imperative to me, to teach my sons as they were growing up:

A good man, remains always, in control of himself.

He can feel any amount of great and powerful and passionate rage, hurt, pain.......the whole gamut.

But the measure of the man is what he does NOT do.

...........slam the door, go for a walk, leave the scene, whatever it takes.

Never, ever, ever...................release that beast.

 

It's all about trust, man.

That's it.

What takes a tousand years to build up, layer by precious layer -

can all be undone in 5 seconds.

Life's just like that.

 

And babies, infants, toddlers, children, adolescents......................

all need men......to be good, strong, fair (and yes, even wise.)

They do need that.

(and women are right there, somewhere in that lineup, too.)

 

When I was 29, I buried the hatchet with my Dad.

That forgiveness I found in my heart has been the measure of my life.

I had another 29 good years to get to know him, as an adult.

They were damned good years.

I miss him like crazy, sometimes.

 

Preserve your own good conscience. It is your true ally.

All the best.

[jsp32020]

Well OP,

I commend you for having the decency and the courage to come back.

 

Here, we can all be flies on the wall, and hear stories about what our childhood memories have been and done, where it leaves us as grownups, what we learned, and where it takes us on our roads.

 

When I was a kid, I thought my father's discipline was over the top.

it probably was.

As a teenager, (after leaving home) I had a few dark moments wondering would I grow up to do the same?

 

I raised two rowdy boys (and one stepdaughter) and my oldest boy knew my righteous wrath (corporally) at age 5.......over a period of about 2 weeks - for refusing to stop abusing our kitten.

(I thought at the time I was raising an animal psychopath.)

 

What broke that fever?

The one day, finally, after being at my wit's end, when I quietly sat down on the edge of his bed, took a deep breath, and talked to him......man to man, so to speak. Talked.....WITH him.

 

His mom used the wooden spoon, and a lot of furious yelling, hollering, screaming and swatting about the ears..........because he knew exactly how to push her buttons.

I used to point out to him - not a good idea to push those buttons. I didn't happen to have those buttons, but she obviously did.

Funny thing about that. She - was his rock. Absolutely. Real passion there.

 

The one thing most imperative to me, to teach my sons as they were growing up:

A good man, remains always, in control of himself.

He can feel any amount of great and powerful and passionate rage, hurt, pain.......the whole gamut.

But the measure of the man is what he does NOT do.

...........slam the door, go for a walk, leave the scene, whatever it takes.

Never, ever, ever...................release that beast.

 

It's all about trust, man.

That's it.

What takes a tousand years to build up, layer by precious layer -

can all be undone in 5 seconds.

Life's just like that.

 

And babies, infants, toddlers, children, adolescents......................

all need men......to be good, strong, fair (and yes, even wise.)

They do need that.

(and women are right there, somewhere in that lineup, too.)

 

When I was 29, I buried the hatchet with my Dad.

That forgiveness I found in my heart has been the measure of my life.

I had another 29 good years to get to know him, as an adult.

They were damned good years.

I miss him like crazy, sometimes.

 

Preserve your own good conscience. It is your true ally.

All the best.

 

Thanks for the words, much appreciated.

 

And no I didn't have to come back but since I started it and I've been active on this site I figured I owed at least a follow up. After watching a client's son of the same age in the office yesterday, I had already decided that we were going to sit down and have a talk, later I came here to vent on it.

 

And please let me clarify if it helps, these are not vicious raged induced beat downs that happen on a whim, they are done controlled and methodically, voices barely raised, basically just what corporal punishment should be (for those the believe in it). My argument to her was that we're starting too soon. I'd say he's pretty advanced for his age but I just think she's holding him too accountable for things he's doing at his age, which she really didn't agree with with but she did concede that we will use the time out method in place of, which seems to work as well.

 

I only mentioned the "frustrating" part as I will tie the likelihood of using this punishment to the level of frustration we may have at the moment, but we may not even show any direct anger towards him. I'm a pretty care free dad and find most of his antics amusing when his mom would be ready to discipline. My gf does not have anger issues and neither do I, the notion of her spanking him when I'm not around is very unlikely and she's big on making sure we're on the same page.

 

I understand that people are flat out opposed in any form, but I think I may have painted the wrong image to you all based on the responses.

Edited June 26, 2015 by jsp32020