oldshirt Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 - Any chance he is some kind of con man? Do you have significant assets of your own that need protecting? Con man may be too strong of a term. Does he have any practices that are dishonest, unethical or borderline legal? Are you frequently discovering things about him beneath the surface that indicate he may not be everything that he seemed while you were dating? Other than this stuff, have you discovered anything about him or his past that bothers you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 He's honest, ethical, likable, great to my kids, great to me. He loves me and I love him. He's just very careful with his money. Maybe that IS why he never married before. I don't know. Again, it's just does not feel good to think he might not trust me enough to title my name on the house with him, and to share financial accounts. And again, I understand what he had previously before the marriage is his. I would like to share what we are growing together moving forward together, to be his partner, his equal partner. I am not feeling that balance and I don't want to grow resentful. We've had the discussion of putting my name on the house and opening joint accounts nearly a dozen times since married and still have not done it. How many time should I ask? I am uncomfortable to ask any more. The conversations end with we will do these things. He gets incredibly upset the few times I brought up our prenup, and says that he wrote it the way he did to protect himself and when I compare it to my needing to protect myself (not only in case of divorce, but should he pass) by finishing my education and looking for work. He says he's not going anywhere and I should trust that he'd take care of me. I need to know that I can make it on my own and take care of the kids God forbid anything should ever happen. He has a hard time with that and feels very threatened. That is my belief anyway. I appreciate all the suggestions coming in. It makes me feel that my feelings are validated and I am not unreasonable. I understand that there are two sides to every story. I also understand that I have allowed his behavior thus far and change will be uncomfortable. I can't change him, but can only change MY actions to change the reaction around me. Not easy, but working on it. Link to post Share on other sites
Morro72 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 If he's honest and ethical he will honor the agreements he has made. If he does not honor the agreements he has made then he is neither honest nor ethical. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 He's honest, ethical, likable, great to my kids, great to me. He loves me and I love him. He's just very careful with his money. Maybe that IS why he never married before. I don't know. Again, it's just does not feel good to think he might not trust me enough to title my name on the house with him, and to share financial accounts. And again, I understand what he had previously before the marriage is his. I would like to share what we are growing together moving forward together, to be his partner, his equal partner. I am not feeling that balance and I don't want to grow resentful. We've had the discussion of putting my name on the house and opening joint accounts nearly a dozen times since married and still have not done it. How many time should I ask? I am uncomfortable to ask any more. The conversations end with we will do these things. He gets incredibly upset the few times I brought up our prenup, and says that he wrote it the way he did to protect himself and when I compare it to my needing to protect myself (not only in case of divorce, but should he pass) by finishing my education and looking for work. He says he's not going anywhere and I should trust that he'd take care of me. I need to know that I can make it on my own and take care of the kids God forbid anything should ever happen. He has a hard time with that and feels very threatened. That is my belief anyway. I appreciate all the suggestions coming in. It makes me feel that my feelings are validated and I am not unreasonable. I understand that there are two sides to every story. I also understand that I have allowed his behavior thus far and change will be uncomfortable. I can't change him, but can only change MY actions to change the reaction around me. Not easy, but working on it. You are being reasonable and you are not being insecure. He is refusing to honour the prenup and that's not acceptable in my book. Do make sure you work after your degree and be independent. Manage your money as though he wasn't there. A woman's financial independence is very important. Don't ever let him think you can't manage without him financially. Him wanting you to work for him, is him trying to have control. Don't allow it. Always have your independent savings account just in case. He's protecting himself and you should do the same. As the kids aren't his, be sure to leave them in your will otherwise your assets will go to him, if you pass. Could be while you're not earning, he doesn't want you on the deed, but this is him backing out of a legal contract. Nothing ethical about that. I understand you don't want to bring up the discussion any more, I wouldn't until you start working. Once you have a job, say that you want to start contributing towards the mortgage from xyz date and as such you need your name on the deed. If he refuses at this point, then you have a huge issue. Up till now, you haven't been able to contribute, but when you can and he still refuses, something else is going on. For as long as the house is in his name only, he can sell it just like that. What security is this for you? If the shoe was on the other foot, how would he feel? It's like he put that in the prenup to get you to marry him and had no intention fulfilling it. That's dishonest and I can see why this is making you feel this way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SatyaShann Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 If I read right, you've been having these issues with him for 5 years? Why did you not act on this sooner, as soon as it became apparent that he was taking no action in getting your name on the house title? By not acting, and I mean in the legal sense.... to fulfill a prenup that HE SIGNED, you're showing that you don't care about it. His actions are going to follow suit, with the assumption that you don't care. Kicking up about it 5 years later is late, but not impossible to effect positive changes now. Go back to the lawyer that helped with the prenup and get info, then take action. He's not going to do it so you need to set the boundary with your own actions. Then never let this stuff "slip" again, if you indeed take it so seriously. Just because he's great in other ways, that's no reason to leave yourself without clear lines drawn between pre-marital and marital assets. His personal character is not under scrutiny here, you're just getting the ducks in a row for your own security. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Again, we've had several conversations about this. It is a sensitive issue. I don't believe that not acting on this legally equates to not caring. In fact, if I were to see an attorney, it could damage the relationship. I was looking for a little input from others on what could be reasonable actions. If my feelings with this issue was not validated, maybe it could mean that I am not reasonable. Sometimes it's good to get insight from others who don't know you and who have no bias. Again, it's good for me to hear what others would advise and ask, as it brings some things to light and discussions can help clear issues. Link to post Share on other sites
beatcuff Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 We have separate financial accounts, his choice. I have access to an account that enough money is deposited for monthly expenses. OP why are you more concerned about being on the house instead of the above, it appears he has a financial strangle hold on you. add to the reactions to your inquires --- there are FAR to many red flags. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I can see how this is incredibly hurtful to you. Being a couple in my eyes means sharing things and that includes bills as well as the good things. I think if he is not interested in putting your name on the house then he is the one that is already damaging the relationship. To me your just responding to the damage he is causing. Sadly I think you might have to put your foot down and tell him either he keeps his word or things just wont work. Its not just about owning a house. Its about trust and love and commitment to each other. Don't get me wrong I know things are changing these days in relationships and maybe my point of view is old fashioned. I hope you are able to work this out for the both of you. Clay 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Clay, You nailed it. It's NOT about the name on the house, it's about trust. His not "sharing" makes me feel there is a lack of trust on his part towards me. I can prepare the paperwork for signature and present it to him, as suggested in a string earlier by another member. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Its really sad. Well I hope he will sign it but I think since he has dragged his feet this far you might have to just put things on the line. The part that kills me the most is that you would even have to do that. Its not like your not paying money and sharing in the upkeep of the home. Just even the fact it has to be a issue is a serious red flag in eyes. I can imagine the day you decide to do this it will be very difficult for you. Clay 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Clay, You nailed it. It's NOT about the name on the house, it's about trust. His not "sharing" makes me feel there is a lack of trust on his part towards me. I can prepare the paperwork for signature and present it to him, as suggested in a string earlier by another member. Thing is, he may see that as a trap, as you have left this hanging for so long. He may think. You are getting him to sign his house over to you because you are going to leave and take half his assets with you. But whatever he thinks, you need to protect yourself and if he won't play ball then you know where you stand and what to do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) He's honest, ethical, likable, great to my kids, great to me. He loves me and I love him. He's just very careful with his money. Maybe that IS why he never married before. I don't know. Again, it's just does not feel good to think he might not trust me enough to title my name on the house with him, and to share financial accounts. And again, I understand what he had previously before the marriage is his. I would like to share what we are growing together moving forward together, to be his partner, his equal partner. I am not feeling that balance and I don't want to grow resentful. We've had the discussion of putting my name on the house and opening joint accounts nearly a dozen times since married and still have not done it. How many time should I ask? I am uncomfortable to ask any more. The conversations end with we will do these things. He gets incredibly upset the few times I brought up our prenup, and says that he wrote it the way he did to protect himself and when I compare it to my needing to protect myself (not only in case of divorce, but should he pass) by finishing my education and looking for work. He says he's not going anywhere and I should trust that he'd take care of me. I need to know that I can make it on my own and take care of the kids God forbid anything should ever happen. He has a hard time with that and feels very threatened. That is my belief anyway. I appreciate all the suggestions coming in. It makes me feel that my feelings are validated and I am not unreasonable. I understand that there are two sides to every story. I also understand that I have allowed his behavior thus far and change will be uncomfortable. I can't change him, but can only change MY actions to change the reaction around me. Not easy, but working on it. When I say, see an attorney, I do not mean file for divorce. I mean that IF he refuses to sign the deed and open the joint account(s) after you do all of the legwork to have the documents drafted, THEN you have a problem and need to talk to a lawyer knowledgeable about prenups in your jurisdiction so that you know the real implications. Yes, you can only change yourself. So do the legwork. See, you’ve been asking him to do it all of these years and he is indicating that it is the time and effort that is preventing him from getting it done. You could take the time and make the effort, so why not do so? MAKE it neutral in your own mind: “Ok, I understand you don’t have time to do it. I’ll take care of it.” Just like you would do if you were talking about taking the garbage out or picking up something at the store. Until you do that, you can’t know if the core of the problem is (1) that he is refusing to live up to his promise to you or (2) whether you two are in power struggle over WHO will do it. It’s important to know which it is. The second is a nag- and- resist power struggle problem. The first is a finance and integrity issue. Big difference. Only IF he refuses to sign after you have made it easy, see an attorney to discuss the implications of his refusal to perform the terms of the prenup. In your jurisdiction, is this going to mean that you’ve waived your rights to co-ownership of the house? Is there a severability clause in the prenup? If there is, could it mean that your right on this issue is waived while the terms that benefit him remain enforceable or could it mean that the prenup wouldn't be enforceable as a whole? I won’t speculate on the answers. It’s the discussion that matters, getting answers. But I’d think you’d both want to know the answers to these, especially: What if his failure to perform means you two don’t have an enforceable prenup at all? What actions would you have to take to make the argument that he "breached"? It's possible that inaction/passivity on your part could hurt you. Again- IF he refuses after you make it easy for him to get this done, I would want to know the legal and financial implications of this before talking to him about it. Otherwise, this will be a source of resentment forever and you’re not saving your marriage by not acting. Try like the dickens to set aside the emotions and make this simply a chore to get done. Edited June 1, 2015 by BlueIris Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Clay, You nailed it. It's NOT about the name on the house, it's about trust. His not "sharing" makes me feel there is a lack of trust on his part towards me. I can prepare the paperwork for signature and present it to him, as suggested in a string earlier by another member. It is about trust. I suggested preparing the paperwork to take away all the other excuses & make him have this conversation with you. It was also the most practical suggestion I had because clearly dump him is not constructive at this point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
lucy_in_disguise Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Just wondering- is your husband bad about procrastinating on other things? Some seemingly functional people have serious problems with this- myself included. Maybe the issue here isn't trust, but ADHD. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 He is not a procrastinator, he's a get things done kind of guy. Especially with financials, which are in detailed order. Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 He is not a procrastinator, he's a get things done kind of guy. Especially with financials, which are in detailed order. So that just points out what he has done has been out of choice and something he probably has thought about. I still think your just going to have to call him on it. What is your thinking if he refuses to put you on the house? What will you do then? Clay 1 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 You may have some legal grounds here. Historically marriage has always been a legal and financial merger. It's only been within the last several generations and in the western world that marriage has been about love and feelings etc at all. Intentionally denying you legal status to the marital home and marital financial instruments may be an actionable offense. (offense may be a bit of a strong word, but I couldn't think of another term) You may want to seek the services of a family law attorney and see what can be done. I agree with the above poster that said that seeing an attorney is not tantamount to filing for divorce. If your husband were eventually brought in to the meeting with the attorney, the attorney may be able to explain the importance of having your name included on the house and some of the marital instruments in case something were to happen to him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 So that just points out what he has done has been out of choice and something he probably has thought about. I still think your just going to have to call him on it. What is your thinking if he refuses to put you on the house? What will you do then? Clay Clay, Great question! I'm not sure. It'll certainly increase my feeling of my husband not trusting me and not having an equal partnership. This would certainly contribute to marital deterioration. Oldshirt, You are absolutely right. I did print out documents for filing joint tenancy and all we'll have to do is sign and certify together. I can then file the papers with the county. I will do a little more leg work then present the papers to him in the next day or two. Let's see what happens..... Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 You may have an issue if changing the holding of title, essentially adding someone to the title of the house as a joint tenant, if the mortgage has a clause allowing them to call the loan on deed changes. Additionally, respecting your H is a stickler for financial stuff, if you're added to the title and not to the mortgage, you've gained control of an asset you have no liability for since the debt was acquired prior to becoming married. The second part can be resolved amongst the parties but be careful on the first part, especially if H has a good loan. Check it thoroughly for references to deed changes. Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I would ask him why he is so hesitant on putting your name on it. I would be upfront and offer a few things out there like maybe hes afraid to loose his home if things don't work out? Maybe there is some common ground you both can meet to make him feel more comfortable and you as well. Clay 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 He is not being fair to you. He is not living up to the agreement he signed. He is also not being fair in not paying you for the work you put in his business (if I understood that correctly). I would suggest to consult with a family lawyer just to make sure your interests are as well protected as your husband's obviously are. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It'll certainly increase my feeling of my husband not trusting me and not having an equal partnership. I think this very much gets to the root of your dilemma here. Are you sure "an equal partnership" is his vision for the marriage? He is clearly and obviously taking responsibility for protecting himself. At the same time, when you bring up your need to protect yourself, he takes the stance that you don't need to do that, because he will protect you. That's not a vision of an equal partnership, that's closer to the model of a kept woman and the great provider. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Poppygoodwill Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If you present the papers to him and all he need do is sign and let you get on with it, then you will learn a lot in the moment when he is handed the papers. I fear that he won't say, "oh great! I've been meanign to get around to this! Where do I sign?" More likely he will try to delay once again, get upset, cause a fuss, deflect the main issue and stall. I think that will be the moment to push, hard, and force the issue to try to discover what his real intentions and motivations are. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
spanz1 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 maybe he has a gut feeling that the marriage will not last, and trying this to keep the house. Maybe it is reinforced since this is your second marriage. have you EVER said anything bad about your ex? it might have spooked him that he saw a side of you that he did not expect to see. Link to post Share on other sites
berniev Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Frankly, I don't think you should have any claim over the house but a contract is a contract. If I were you, I would ask him point blank, why don't you honor our prenup for 5 years? Edited June 3, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Moved post from other thread posted to by mistake. Link to post Share on other sites
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