It's just not true....

[jay1983]

Y'all gotta get around people you click with. My kinda people are blue collar type people (usually minorities) who I can relate to. People who aren't straight arrows and don't come from privileged class, use a little profanity and sometimes say offensive sh*t, like myself.

 

Put me with a couple of college white boys, I can't relate to them, not just stuff in common, but the flow of Conversation and mannerism is different. I might try and something bout sports or talk about something from work to see if they can get on my level. Sometimes they laugh and add to it and sometimes they're too far off in dork land and I start looking at my phone trying to see what my next move is.

Edited May 25, 2015 by jay1983

[SJC2008]

Y'all gotta get around people you click with. My kinda people are blue collar type people (usually minorities) who I can relate to. People who aren't straight arrows and don't come from privileged class, use a little profanity and sometimes say offensive sh*t, like myself.

 

Put me with a couple of college white boys, I can't relate to them, not just stuff in common, but the flow of Conversation and mannerism is different. I might try and something bout sports or talk about something from work to see if they can get on my level. Sometimes they laugh and add to it and sometimes they're too far off in dork land and I start looking at my phone trying to see what my next move is.

 

I can relate to blue collar types even though I'm a college white boy lol (though I was quiet, certainly don't fit the frat sterotype).

 

 

I think blue collar people are more laid back, aren't concerned with image like a lot of arrogant white collar people. Sure there are blue collar "thugs" who are all about image but I'm talking about the rule, not the exception.

 

 

I got along sooo much better with my coworkers when I was at my many blue collar jobs. Now in my white collare position it's not that I don't get along with them but their auras reek of "my shyt doesn't stink", I can't stand it. I feel so out of place.

[SJC2008]

What I'm reading is that some people don't enjoy being social.

 

Dating is fundamentally a social activity.

 

This presents an obvious problem.

 

I enjoy being social but I also enjoy substance. Most conversation is so surfacy and bland... I like to joke around and banter, hell, I can be quite the goof ball but how about a little more depth sometimes like what's going on in the world etc? It doesn't always have to be about news and politics but it seems like it always has to be about "what's hot?"

[xxoo]

Y'all gotta get around people you click with. My kinda people are blue collar type people (usually minorities) who I can relate to. People who aren't straight arrows and don't come from privileged class, use a little profanity and sometimes say offensive sh*t, like myself.

 

That's my crowd, as well. I dropped the F bomb at least once last night

[xxoo]

I enjoy being social but I also enjoy substance. Most conversation is so surfacy and bland... I like to joke around and banter, hell, I can be quite the goof ball but how about a little more depth sometimes like what's going on in the world etc? It doesn't always have to be about news and politics but it seems like it always has to be about "what's hot?"

 

It's a bbq, and people are drinking. Your expectations may be a little high when people are just looking to unwind and enjoy good company.

 

We talked about food, funny work stories (even though we work at different places), dogs....lots of stories about dogs, lesbians came up twice, what kind of video game system we each had as a kid (age dependent!), etc. Nothing earth shattering, but it's not like we were discussing the Kardashians.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Y'all gotta get around people you click with. My kinda people are blue collar type people (usually minorities) who I can relate to. People who aren't straight arrows and don't come from privileged class, use a little profanity and sometimes say offensive sh*t, like myself.

 

Put me with a couple of college white boys, I can't relate to them, not just stuff in common, but the flow of Conversation and mannerism is different. I might try and something bout sports or talk about something from work to see if they can get on my level. Sometimes they laugh and add to it and sometimes they're too far off in dork land and I start looking at my phone trying to see what my next move is.

 

I think that's the dichotomy of this thread. Everybody has someone they click with, some more than others.

 

The question is "Are people willing to be friendly and talk with people they do NOT click with?"

 

A lot of people are saying yes, and others are saying no.

 

I side with no, although it's not black and white.

 

In general, I believe people are not interested in talking to you unless you have something they want to hear and can deliver it in a manner that entertains them.

 

Of course, there are exceptions. There's a secretary at work and she's like 59 and we have zero in common. But I ask her how she is doing and what she did for the weekend and how her grandkids are. And she is friendly. She will talk to me and ask me what I did too.

 

OTOH, my boss is closer to my age, and he has NEVER asked me what I did over the weekend.

 

I would say it's about 30/70. 30% of people are just nice and will listen to what you are saying even if they might not give a ****, 70% don't care.

 

P.S. I also think part of the problem is that people socialize in cliques and thus fence themselves off from other types of people. I grew up in a lily white neighborhood and went to a top college, and I dated a gal who was from the hood. And when I say the hood, I mean her kids couldn't be outside of the house, ever. People from different backgrounds are more similar than you might think.

 

Part of the fun in life is learning about others, but I think others are too preoccupied with their own social circles to expand.

Edited May 26, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[JuneJulySeptember]

Oh, and I'd also like to add.

 

If you want to encourage and help guys/people who feel like society is kicking their ass, and tell them they have too negative a view of people, then make it so.

 

Next time a guy comes up to you at a bar, talk to him and entertain his small talk.

 

Next time a co-worker comes over and starts talking to you about something you might not care about, listen to them and actually make eye contact with them instead of staring at your computer screen and nodding and waiting for them to go away.

[xxoo]

Oh, and I'd also like to add.

 

If you want to encourage and help guys/people who feel like society is kicking their ass, and tell them they have too negative a view of people, then make it so.

 

Next time a guy comes up to you at a bar, talk to him and entertain his small talk.

 

Next time a co-worker comes over and starts talking to you about something you might not care about, listen to them and actually make eye contact with them instead of staring at your computer screen and nodding and waiting for them to go away.

 

That's sort of the point of the thread: talk to people. Even if they're a little boring, just go with it and enjoy brightening someone's day

[Kamille]

Wrong, dating is a competition. It has way more to do with just being social.

 

Dating is more than one thing.

 

First, it's about connecting with other people.

 

Some people are competitive, so, for some people, dating is a competition.

 

For other people, dating is about opening up and getting to know other people.

 

You get to choose how you approach dating.

[johndoe2]

Wow, jeez, I never thought about it that way. Clearly, we live in the best of all possible worlds and it is my failure to acknowledge it as such that blinds me from seeing it. And people are rarely ever shallow and do things like base their opinions on things that are, in fact, entirely beyond one's control. And I know I certainly haven't been trying very hard for several years and that my attitudes most certainly have not been shaped by many experiences and unsuccessful trials and tribulations. Why, until the OP came along and made me see the light, I was just sitting with my head burrowed deep in my ass-hole for the last five years waiting for someone to come along and pry it out for me.

 

If you want to encourage and help guys/people who feel like society is kicking their ass, and tell them they have too negative a view of people, then make it so.

Now that's just madness. Accusing them of being losers or misogynists or whatever is surely far more productive.

[xxoo]

What advice is there for posters who are saying that people are too boring to talk to? That has to be a huge impediment meeting new people.

[calvincline47]

There has been a lot of posts by the Struggling Dudes on here saying that women are ready to shoot down any guy who doesn't meet The Looks Threshold (I never knew there even was such a thing!). That if you dare talk to a woman you don't know, you will be branded a creep, that is, unless you look like Tom Brady.

 

I am concerned about this, because there are a lot of impressionable young men who come on here. Well guys, I can assure you, the negative stuff just isn't true. Single women want to meet you too. Approach them.

 

I talk to people all the time. Often it is just a quick exchange. Sometimes it is a longer conversation. Thing is, I have never been insulted and called a creep. I HAVE gotten sex, friends, dates though.

 

I've learned to stay away from the PUA stuff. That stuff is rather greasy and weird. Either she is willing to talk or she aint, and having a bunch of routines and lines will not help your cause in either case. What you do want to do is be respectful, observant, and at ease with yourself. Takes practice but is doable. And did I say respectful? IF she doesn't want to talk that's cool, don't badger her. Guys who don't get that or guys who get too sexual too fast are the ones who get called creepy. If she is putting effort to keep the conversation going, that's great! Get her number.

 

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, I am short.

 

Totally wrong.

 

For the record, I'm also a short guy that is also good-looking (not as good-looking as before since I've put on some weight).

 

I do get girls, have had success with cold approaches, and have had a threesome (with 2 girls).

 

The fact is that you will not get anywhere in approaching if you are not good-looking. My ugly friends do much worse with women than I do. My tall friends do much better. Yes, there are leagues and, if you stick to your own, you'll do fine (but you still need to put work in since women tend to over-value their own looks and shoot out of their league).

 

In any event, if a short, ugly, older, bald guy with no social status goes to a bar, he will be rejected over and over again. Most guys are not this bad off, but there is absolutely a looks threshold from my observation.

[ZA Dater]

Yes, there are leagues and, if you stick to your own, you'll do fine (but you still need to put work in since women tend to over-value their own looks and shoot out of their league).

 

In any event, if a short, ugly, older, bald guy with no social status goes to a bar, he will be rejected over and over again. Most guys are not this bad off, but there is absolutely a looks threshold from my observation.

 

I tend to disagree with all of the above, I am blond, blue eyes, tall athletic and do pathetically at dating. Where is the short drinkers, bar, club guys appear to do fantastically well.

 

As for leagues, true in part but what if you want to play outside your league.

[Toodaloo]

I tend to disagree with all of the above, I am blond, blue eyes, tall athletic and do pathetically at dating. Where is the short drinkers, bar, club guys appear to do fantastically well.

 

As for leagues, true in part but what if you want to play outside your league.

 

You guys can argue all you like about looks.

 

At the end of the day for women it is ALL down to personality. She will find the attractive in you if you have the personality there first.

 

I keep saying it. I will keep saying it.

 

Of ALL my exes the two worst looking are the ones I loved. The rest are all "throw away" as in I cared about them but not enough for it to last. I have dated models you name it. I am known for picking "lookers". Not once have I ever dated a man for his looks. Each and every time there has been something else that is attractive.

 

I know this. I am a woman.

[ZA Dater]

You guys can argue all you like about looks.

 

At the end of the day for women it is ALL down to personality. She will find the attractive in you if you have the personality there first.

 

I keep saying it. I will keep saying it.

 

Of ALL my exes the two worst looking are the ones I loved. The rest are all "throw away" as in I cared about them but not enough for it to last. I have dated models you name it. I am known for picking "lookers". Not once have I ever dated a man for his looks. Each and every time there has been something else that is attractive.

 

I know this. I am a woman.

 

Well I guess I must have a truly awful personality then.

 

Seriously though, I am happy there is at least one female to whom personality and being a good guy counts for something.

 

Looks are actually easier to find than personality...relatively speaking.

[Toodaloo]

Well I guess I must have a truly awful personality then.

 

Either that or you are not "projecting" your personality. many happy people walk round with a frown on their faces or have "closed" body language with out realising it.

 

Seriously though, I am happy there is at least one female to whom personality and being a good guy counts for something.

 

There are far more like me out there than you think...

 

Looks are actually easier to find than personality...relatively speaking.

 

You are absolutely right which is why it is so important to talk to people!

 

Talk to as many people as possible. Be as sociable as you can. Find out why your friends like you. What is it they think are your strong points? Then when it comes to talking to women on line and in real life you will find it so much easier. I can easily talk to men because I talk to men A LOT! I know my failings as well as my strengths. Old young in between... The lot.

 

Cut out the dross. You can tell who they are by the language they use and responses that they make. Don't waste time.

 

Seriously.

 

The guy I met at the weekend... I had to log back on to look at his pictures as I had no clue what he looked like. I was really excited to meet him in person because he is a fun, active guy and really grounded in many ways. As it turns out he is way better looking (to me) in real life than in photos. I suspect that has more to do with his personality though... Bummed that he didn't fancy me but at least he was an attractive guy!

[lino]

Wow, jeez, I never thought about it that way. Clearly, we live in the best of all possible worlds and it is my failure to acknowledge it as such that blinds me from seeing it. And people are rarely ever shallow and do things like base their opinions on things that are, in fact, entirely beyond one's control. And I know I certainly haven't been trying very hard for several years and that my attitudes most certainly have not been shaped by many experiences and unsuccessful trials and tribulations. Why, until the OP came along and made me see the light, I was just sitting with my head burrowed deep in my ass-hole for the last five years waiting for someone to come along and pry it out for me.

 

 

Now that's just madness. Accusing them of being losers or misogynists or whatever is surely far more productive.

 

Well said.

 

'Gee I'm a bit bored at the moment, why don't I make a discussion topic online crapping on guys who struggle with women. Yesss!!'

 

I also love the 'I've dated models and stunners left, right and centre but only cared for the plain guys.' Then cue the cheesey humour..

Yeah.. We see that everyday right

[ZA Dater]

You are absolutely right which is why it is so important to talk to people!

 

Talk to as many people as possible. Be as sociable as you can. Find out why your friends like you. What is it they think are your strong points? Then when it comes to talking to women on line and in real life you will find it so much easier. I can easily talk to men because I talk to men A LOT! I know my failings as well as my strengths. Old young in between... The lot.

 

Cut out the dross. You can tell who they are by the language they use and responses that they make. Don't waste time.

 

Seriously.

 

The guy I met at the weekend... I had to log back on to look at his pictures as I had no clue what he looked like. I was really excited to meet him in person because he is a fun, active guy and really grounded in many ways. As it turns out he is way better looking (to me) in real life than in photos. I suspect that has more to do with his personality though... Bummed that he didn't fancy me but at least he was an attractive guy!

 

Well I guess I simply have none of the traits people like even as friends because I have precisely two friends, neither of which is female. I wouldn't say I am fun, I'd say I am intelligent, I'd say I go to nice events.

 

Strong points: loyalty, caring, ability to listen, honesty, not a clubber.

 

Truth it my confidence it shot to pieces, years and years of either having totally unsuitable people like me or failing to win over the people I like. Now I try and be friends with one and get rejected at that too.

 

People say confidence, sure I agree but it comes from positive experiences and yes I had two great dates but ultimately I got flatly rejected which soured the entire experience.

[johndoe2]

You guys can argue all you like about looks.

 

At the end of the day for women it is ALL down to personality. She will find the attractive in you if you have the personality there first.

 

I keep saying it. I will keep saying it.

 

Of ALL my exes the two worst looking are the ones I loved. The rest are all "throw away" as in I cared about them but not enough for it to last. I have dated models you name it. I am known for picking "lookers". Not once have I ever dated a man for his looks. Each and every time there has been something else that is attractive.

 

I know this. I am a woman.

This is simply false Toodaloo. Women most definitely care about physical aspects and most have thresholds. (To revisit an old peeve of mine, just the sheer number of women on online dating sites who say 'don't message me if you're under this height' disproves your personality theory.)

 

Remember, you are not women; you are one particular woman. So don't try and make universal extrapolations from yourself.

[johndoe2]

Well I guess I simply have none of the traits people like even as friends because I have precisely two friends, neither of which is female. I wouldn't say I am fun, I'd say I am intelligent, I'd say I go to nice events.

 

Strong points: loyalty, caring, ability to listen, honesty, not a clubber.

 

Truth it my confidence it shot to pieces, years and years of either having totally unsuitable people like me or failing to win over the people I like. Now I try and be friends with one and get rejected at that too.

 

People say confidence, sure I agree but it comes from positive experiences and yes I had two great dates but ultimately I got flatly rejected which soured the entire experience.

I think there's a strong negative feedback loop unfortunately. People make friends (and meet prospective romantic partners) primarily through other friends. And everyone wants to be friends (or partners) with a guy who already has lots of friends. So the easiest way to make friends is to already have lots of friends. And who wants to be friends with a guy with few or no friends (perhaps because they think 'why does he have no friends? Must be something wrong with him'). It's also hard to make friends with other people with few or no friends because they already tend to be fairly asocial.

 

Kind of like swimming against the undertow. The further out you get, the harder the waves pull you out. Meanwhile, someone on the shore is shouting 'you're just trying to hard, just relax and be yourself and the waves will reverse and carry you in.'

[ascendotum]

At the end of the day for women it is ALL down to personality. She will find the attractive in you if you have the personality there first.

I know this. I am a woman.

 

Maybe this is how you operate...and some women, but I as a general rule for women I disagree. The trouble is on here when you make a statement regarding 'women' you basically include women from 16 to 96. Women in their 20s have different mindsets from those in their 30s and then they have different mindsets from those in their 40s, and so on. Yes personality will take precedence over looks for older women, but much less so for younger women. Likewise looks will take a back seat for less attractive women. Same story when it comes to men, but I find women tend to have a greater vested interest in downplaying looks (face + body + style). A guy's looks gets his foot in the door and then his personality can seal the deal or blow his opportunity...not in 100% of cases but more often than not.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Women in their 20s have different mindsets from those in their 30s and then they have different mindsets from those in their 40s, and so on. Yes personality will take precedence over looks for older women, but much less so for younger women.

 

I don't want to rain on your parade at all, but I haven't found that to be the case whatsoever. And if you read the posts here, you will see I am right. There are women in their 50s and they are just as picky about looks as they were when they were in their 20s.

 

In fact, I think the women who will date me now (40s) are the same women would have dated me in my 20s too. Your mentality and mindset in dating tends to stay with you.

[ZA Dater]

I think there's a strong negative feedback loop unfortunately. People make friends (and meet prospective romantic partners) primarily through other friends. And everyone wants to be friends (or partners) with a guy who already has lots of friends. So the easiest way to make friends is to already have lots of friends. And who wants to be friends with a guy with few or no friends (perhaps because they think 'why does he have no friends? Must be something wrong with him'). It's also hard to make friends with other people with few or no friends because they already tend to be fairly asocial.

 

Kind of like swimming against the undertow. The further out you get, the harder the waves pull you out. Meanwhile, someone on the shore is shouting 'you're just trying to hard, just relax and be yourself and the waves will reverse and carry you in.'

 

Cant really debate any of this because its all true when applied to my own circumstance, I go out alone, go eat on my own (terrible experience and try not to do it too often) but mostly you are right, if you don't have friends people think there is something wrong with you. If you don't like most people others like there is something wrong with you.

 

Then you have those irritating people "Oh don't be desperate" when they themselves never battled with this.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I have to admit, in some social situations I had to duck out when they start talking about their past drinking (alcoholic) shenanigans...which usually everyone laughs in agreement as they've been a victim to the booze and woke up somewhere not remembering anything.

 

I fail to see what's funny about getting wasted, esp. if you're over 40.

[elaine567]

I don't want to rain on your parade at all, but I haven't found that to be the case whatsoever. And if you read the posts here, you will see I am right. There are women in their 50s and they are just as picky about looks as they were when they were in their 20s.

 

In fact, I think the women who will date me now (40s) are the same women would have dated me in my 20s too. Your mentality and mindset in dating tends to stay with you.

 

I think as people age, the leagues can change.

Some smokin' hot girl in her 20s can look pretty ordinary in her 30-40s and some girl who was pretty nondescript in her 20s can look stunning in her 30-40s. Similarly that ripped guy can turn fat and bald in his 30s and the dorky teenager turn into a successful good looking 40 yo.

Some gain confidence as they age and some without the boost of their stunning looks, lose self-esteem.

 

If at 20 they are attracting the pick of the crop, looks wise, I guess most are not going to be willing to set their sights lower, unless perhaps experience has taught them to change their criteria for a long term mate. But if looks is high priority, as it is for some, I guess it still trumps all

If at 20 you chose personality/intellect over looks I doubt that would change much either.

 

Most just want the best they can get, whatever age they are.