thefooloftheyear Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I challenge anyone on the forum to prove this is not the honest truth. Dating depends as much on your social circle as it does on any inherent character, physical and confidence traits you may have. Simply put: no friends= no dating. Challenge accepted.... I am socially awkward and kind of a douche bag at times(Id like to think I am just moody:laugh:)..I don't approach women and never have-yet have always had quite a lot of attention from women... No life= no women... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Challenge accepted.... I am socially awkward and kind of a douche bag at times(Id like to think I am just moody:laugh:)..I don't approach women and never have-yet have always had quite a lot of attention from women... No life= no women... TFY Consider yourself fortunate! I am the shy quiet nice guy and can honestly say I have had almost no female attention at all. Guess I have no life lol:D Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Fact remains you speak to random people in public and unless there is something to talk about "oh this train is late again" its impossible to strike up any conversation. My opinion is speaking to random people with the intention of taking them out putting your self confidence on an absolute hiding to nothing, such will be A: the disappointment at the calibre of person B: the utter rejection one will get C: the realisation that most physically appealing people are taken D: the fact that females don't want to be picked up by random guys, they would prefer to meet people in a circle of friends OR at a socially orientated place like a club or bar. First, you should practice speaking to all sorts of people with no intention other than to practice getting comfortable speaking to people. There is very often something to talk about: the long line, the slow service, the weather, I've asked about their shoes because I run and I was curious about how they like that brand and model, dogs are a BIG one. If you don't have a dog, consider getting one. Instant conversation maker and chick magnet in public. Next, don't judge people so harshly. Just enjoy the moment, and realize that you are working on you. Finally, yes, build your social circle. But this practice chatting with strangers will help you even there. I was at a bbq last night, and there were 2 single guys. One of the guys just wouldn't talk. I'd ask questions, he'd give 1 or 2 word answers. There were no single women there anyway, but that's not the point. He needs to practice being more social. Even in that controlled, relaxed setting, he was uptight and awkward. He hung out with the women most of the night, so it's not like he's better with men. But he wouldn't really talk to us, even though we each tried to draw him out in different ways. Link to post Share on other sites
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Even in that controlled, relaxed setting, he was uptight and awkward. He hung out with the women most of the night, so it's not like he's better with men. But he wouldn't really talk to us, even though we each tried to draw him out in different ways. Unfortunately, you'll get people like this at parties. Usually the non-friendly types aren't being shy, they are just choosing to end the conversation with said person because they don't deem them attractive enough to talk to. I've heard people on this site even admit to this. They are thinking, "Crap, this dude/woman is too ugly to talk to, I'll try to discourage her engagement by keeping my answers as short as possible." Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Unfortunately, you'll get people like this at parties. Usually the non-friendly types aren't being shy, they are just choosing to end the conversation with said person because they don't deem them attractive enough to talk to. I've heard people on this site even admit to this. They are thinking, "Crap, this dude/woman is too ugly to talk to, I'll try to discourage her engagement by keeping my answers as short as possible." But sit silently next to us all evening? No, he found the most welcoming group at the party, but even then couldn't manage to participate. Aside from the fact that I am certainly hot Link to post Share on other sites
PJKino Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 First, you should practice speaking to all sorts of people with no intention other than to practice getting comfortable speaking to people. There is very often something to talk about: the long line, the slow service, the weather, I've asked about their shoes because I run and I was curious about how they like that brand and model, dogs are a BIG one. If you don't have a dog, consider getting one. Instant conversation maker and chick magnet in public. Next, don't judge people so harshly. Just enjoy the moment, and realize that you are working on you. Finally, yes, build your social circle. But this practice chatting with strangers will help you even there. I was at a bbq last night, and there were 2 single guys. One of the guys just wouldn't talk. I'd ask questions, he'd give 1 or 2 word answers. There were no single women there anyway, but that's not the point. He needs to practice being more social. Even in that controlled, relaxed setting, he was uptight and awkward. He hung out with the women most of the night, so it's not like he's better with men. But he wouldn't really talk to us, even though we each tried to draw him out in different ways. It's funny that we accept people are different with personality traits strengths weaknesses etc but not being overly talkative or social seems to be something people who are can't fathom other people being for some reason..some people don't like talking a ton and it drains them to do so others are better listeners then talkers yet some people can't comprehend this and think everyone should be very social.. Also it's hard to judge someone off one conversation..Maybe the guy didn't talk much at the BBQ because he didn't find the conversation interesting or didn't know much about the subject.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It's funny that we accept people are different with personality traits strengths weaknesses etc but not being overly talkative or social seems to be something people who are can't fathom other people being for some reason..some people don't like talking a ton and it drains them to do so others are better listeners then talkers yet some people can't comprehend this and think everyone should be very social.. Also it's hard to judge someone off one conversation..Maybe the guy didn't talk much at the BBQ because he didn't find the conversation interesting or didn't know much about the subject.. The guy at the bbq is a repeat from last year. Same guy, same crowd, same house, same behavior. I'm not criticizing. I'm pointing out a reason for not having success with women. It's a challenge, yes, but worth it to push yourself in this area if you relate to the guy at the bbq. He was at no risk of being rejected or labeled a creep. Maybe he was bored, but I am often bored during conversations at bbqs. That is part of being social; being kind to those who might be a little boring. Helping to keep the conversation going in an interesting direction. Believe me, I wasn't interested when talking to him! But I kept at it, because I was trying to draw him out. I failed, two years in a row. But that's ok, he can sit by me, and I'll try again next year Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It's funny that we accept people are different with personality traits strengths weaknesses etc but not being overly talkative or social seems to be something people who are can't fathom other people being for some reason..some people don't like talking a ton and it drains them to do so others are better listeners then talkers yet some people can't comprehend this and think everyone should be very social.. Also it's hard to judge someone off one conversation..Maybe the guy didn't talk much at the BBQ because he didn't find the conversation interesting or didn't know much about the subject.. I'm an introvert, so I can relate to not being a big talker and feeling drained. But you can be those things and also be social enough to get by. You don't have to be a blabber mouth the entire time or overly talkative. And if you are comfortable and relaxed, you can give off the vibe that you are contributing more to the conversation than you actually may be. (Nodding, smiling, asking questions, etc. None of that takes much effort.) How you interact with people is really the key to it. If you are awkward and creepy about it, that will turn women off. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 But sit silently next to us all evening? No, he found the most welcoming group at the party, but even then couldn't manage to participate. Aside from the fact that I am certainly hot I have been that guy bar the fact nobody tries to draw me out. Honestly he probably didn't find the conversation interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I have been that guy bar the fact nobody tries to draw me out. Honestly he probably didn't find the conversation interesting. Does that matter, though? I didn't always find the conversation interesting, either. Being social isn't all about being entertained. It's about seeking connection with others, and yeah, it takes a little effort for all of us. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It's funny that we accept people are different with personality traits strengths weaknesses etc but not being overly talkative or social seems to be something people who are can't fathom other people being for some reason..some people don't like talking a ton and it drains them to do so others are better listeners then talkers yet some people can't comprehend this and think everyone should be very social.. Also it's hard to judge someone off one conversation..Maybe the guy didn't talk much at the BBQ because he didn't find the conversation interesting or didn't know much about the subject.. Agreed.... I know they mean well, but telling a struggling guy who is inherently shy and introverted that "being more social" will result in more success with women/dating is kinda like telling a woman that struggles to stuff her bra so she looks like a DDD....It will go off about as well as a fart in church... You don't need to be a social butterfly....you dont even need to talk at all...Its all about the aura you posess...Its all about how you appear to others...Its about swagger and confidence, without being an aszhole...Sounds simple, but its not that easy..Start by working on yourself and what you look like...If you are fat and out of shape, go to the gym...Put yourself together well...Get a good haircut and dont be a doofus..Get a little edgy.. And be somebody...Women know these guys the minute they walk into a room ...Its almost as if they wear their accomplishments on a sandwich board...They are the ones that attract the attention... The problem and why guys are always whining is that women get "participation trophies" in this game...Guys dont...Not that its anything to cheer about as most guys will fck a warthog if it had a pair of tits, so that "attention" is often misguided and has the wrong motive for the women...But thats their cross to bear... Be someone...no matter how wonderful your parents told you that you are, it wont guarantee some attention from women...You arent going to get the participation trophy like they do...this is going to take some work...The good news is that the "work" you need to put in, winds up being a benefit whether you get women or dont...Confidence, being more fit, more financially successful, better looking, etc...will carry you a long way in this world... And trust me...they'll be there in the end...They always are..And the "power" (I know its probably a bad term, but its all I can think of on a lazy holiday=y'all get the point..)... will shift from them to you... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
JuneJulySeptember Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) The original post has the tone of "A wonderful world awaits if you just step out your door" mantra which is a very oversimplified version of the way things work. If I go to a bar and start talking to some GUY (and I have done that hundreds of times), 3 out of 5 times he'll blow me off, a 4th time he'll make some small chat without looking up from the TV, and a 5th time I might have an actual conversation. Obviously with women in bars, it's a lot worse. Now, if you can be that guy who can walk into a bar where people are taking group shots, walk right into the circle and start yelling and screaming and dancing. If you can be the guy who shows up at a wedding and has every gal at your table laughing and dancing the line with you. OK, now we're talking. But that is not an easy step to reach. It's not just about having the balls to do that, you have to have the charisma to pull it off as well. As far as meeting women in casual situations, that is obvious as well. You meet a buddy in the city after work and he brings his cute nice coworker who is friendly and engages you in conversation. Are you all implying that the guys here are too shy to talk to a woman in THAT situation? Because I can tell you I get a rare opportunity like that I grab on like grim death. Edited May 25, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember Link to post Share on other sites
JuneJulySeptember Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Agreed.... I know they mean well, but telling a struggling guy who is inherently shy and introverted that "being more social" will result in more success with women/dating is kinda like telling a woman that struggles to stuff her bra so she looks like a DDD....It will go off about as well as a fart in church... You don't need to be a social butterfly....you dont even need to talk at all...Its all about the aura you posess...Its all about how you appear to others...Its about swagger and confidence, without being an aszhole...Sounds simple, but its not that easy..Start by working on yourself and what you look like...If you are fat and out of shape, go to the gym...Put yourself together well...Get a good haircut and dont be a doofus..Get a little edgy.. And be somebody...Women know these guys the minute they walk into a room ...Its almost as if they wear their accomplishments on a sandwich board...They are the ones that attract the attention... The problem and why guys are always whining is that women get "participation trophies" in this game...Guys dont...Not that its anything to cheer about as most guys will fck a warthog if it had a pair of tits, so that "attention" is often misguided and has the wrong motive for the women...But thats their cross to bear... Be someone...no matter how wonderful your parents told you that you are, it wont guarantee some attention from women...You arent going to get the participation trophy like they do...this is going to take some work...The good news is that the "work" you need to put in, winds up being a benefit whether you get women or dont...Confidence, being more fit, more financially successful, better looking, etc...will carry you a long way in this world... And trust me...they'll be there in the end...They always are..And the "power" (I know its probably a bad term, but its all I can think of on a lazy holiday=y'all get the point..)... will shift from them to you... TFY A much more realistic representation. Link to post Share on other sites
ltjg45 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Does that matter, though? I didn't always find the conversation interesting, either. Being social isn't all about being entertained. It's about seeking connection with others, and yeah, it takes a little effort for all of us. Actually, it does. It's hard to give more than 2 word responses when that person doesn't know anything about the subject at hand. It's like someone asking me about cooking and I am the kind of person that would burn ramen noodles so it is clear that I can't cook so I can't add to such a conversation unless I start telling things that may be complete lies to the person I am talking to, which makes me look like an idiot to him/her just because I am trying to be "more social". It's better off for me and for the other person to just try and exit out instead of acting like I know something when I clearly don't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
endlessabyss Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Blue Pill post lol Link to post Share on other sites
endlessabyss Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Actually, it does. It's hard to give more than 2 word responses when that person doesn't know anything about the subject at hand. It's like someone asking me about cooking and I am the kind of person that would burn ramen noodles so it is clear that I can't cook so I can't add to such a conversation unless I start telling things that may be complete lies to the person I am talking to, which makes me look like an idiot to him/her just because I am trying to be "more social". It's better off for me and for the other person to just try and exit out instead of acting like I know something when I clearly don't. This. I experience this all the time at work. People talk about **** I have no clue about, so I just keep quite. I find what they talk about pretty stupid, but don't really care, as long as I don't need to participate. But with me sitting around these people, being quite, they constantly ask me why I am quite, and treat me differently. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Actually, it does. It's hard to give more than 2 word responses when that person doesn't know anything about the subject at hand. It's like someone asking me about cooking and I am the kind of person that would burn ramen noodles so it is clear that I can't cook so I can't add to such a conversation unless I start telling things that may be complete lies to the person I am talking to, which makes me look like an idiot to him/her just because I am trying to be "more social". It's better off for me and for the other person to just try and exit out instead of acting like I know something when I clearly don't. It's contributing to say, "I burn ramen noodles" They'd laugh! And if they are good conversationalists, they will try to include you. People aren't there to judge. They are there to connect and enjoy the company. Take advantage of that easy setting and practice speaking up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ltjg45 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It's contributing to say, "I burn ramen noodles" They'd laugh! And if they are good conversationalists, they will try to include you. People aren't there to judge. They are there to connect and enjoy the company. Take advantage of that easy setting and practice speaking up. Well, that would be all I can contribute to the cooking subject though. I burned ramen noodles once and I never tried it again due to burning the kitchen down. Now I strictly use the microwave, eat the healthiest food from a chain restaurant, or starve myself. Now, don't get me wrong. I have did so many depressing things that I would make a somewhat average comedian even though other people would be disturbed by it. In essence, my life has been nothing more than a ton of negative feelings and experiences and a few positive experiences that ended up crushing me at the end, questioning everything I ever think of. I really can't add anything to a conversation without being somewhat negative here and there and since I am aware that being negative is not a good thing, it is best for me and for others to keep their distance until that changes......if it ever changes. But to just discard the way I feel like I discard trash.....that is something that simply can't be done. I tried that. All it did is come right back many times. I just need to let it die out slowly or find someone that is willing to accept that side of me.....but I doubt many people would tolerate that and I have come to accept that too. Such is life. Link to post Share on other sites
SJC2008 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 There has been a lot of posts by the Struggling Dudes on here saying that women are ready to shoot down any guy who doesn't meet The Looks Threshold (I never knew there even was such a thing!). That if you dare talk to a woman you don't know, you will be branded a creep, that is, unless you look like Tom Brady. I am concerned about this, because there are a lot of impressionable young men who come on here. Well guys, I can assure you, the negative stuff just isn't true. Single women want to meet you too. Approach them. I talk to people all the time. Often it is just a quick exchange. Sometimes it is a longer conversation. Thing is, I have never been insulted and called a creep. I HAVE gotten sex, friends, dates though. I've learned to stay away from the PUA stuff. That stuff is rather greasy and weird. Either she is willing to talk or she aint, and having a bunch of routines and lines will not help your cause in either case. What you do want to do is be respectful, observant, and at ease with yourself. Takes practice but is doable. And did I say respectful? IF she doesn't want to talk that's cool, don't badger her. Guys who don't get that or guys who get too sexual too fast are the ones who get called creepy. If she is putting effort to keep the conversation going, that's great! Get her number. By the way, in case anyone is wondering, I am short. Yes there are a fair number of men who beleive this bs when it couldn't be further from the truth. Hell, I'd argue that attractive women are just as easy going as average or less looking women, if not more. Sure you have your stuck up wanna be hollywood queen here and there but that is definately the exception not the rule. That being said what difference does it make? If a woman isn't attracted to you she's gonna turn you down. 99% of the time she'll do it in a "diplomatic" manner and will probably be flatterd, and yeah, that 1% may give you an "as if" but it will be rare. I do agree that it's good to talk to everyone, it will improve your social skills and help those that aren't too comfortable around pepole become comfortable with "everyone". That being said it's different with dating. Sure wome women may go out with a "confident" guy who is less attractive than her but that's the excepton rather than the rule. People are tribal and leagues do exist. Since the beginning of time people group by race, religion and social class. Throw in looks on the dating front and that's human nature. Link to post Share on other sites
SJC2008 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The guy at the bbq is a repeat from last year. Same guy, same crowd, same house, same behavior. I'm not criticizing. I'm pointing out a reason for not having success with women. It's a challenge, yes, but worth it to push yourself in this area if you relate to the guy at the bbq. He was at no risk of being rejected or labeled a creep. Maybe he was bored, but I am often bored during conversations at bbqs. That is part of being social; being kind to those who might be a little boring. Helping to keep the conversation going in an interesting direction. Believe me, I wasn't interested when talking to him! But I kept at it, because I was trying to draw him out. I failed, two years in a row. But that's ok, he can sit by me, and I'll try again next year Maybe he's shy, maybe pepole don't listen to him when he talks and everyone else starts having a conversation without him so he became shut down over the years. People always want to throw out cliche advise like "push yourself" "be confident" etc. How do you knonw if a shy person has pushed himself or not? I have I can promise you that. Here's the equivalent of "push yourself" advice to a normal person: Walk around backwards all day, yes it's uncomforatble but it is possible right? Ok well, walk backwards untill it feels normal and do it for the rest of your life. Link to post Share on other sites
endlessabyss Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It's contributing to say, "I burn ramen noodles" They'd laugh! And if they are good conversationalists, they will try to include you. People aren't there to judge. They are there to connect and enjoy the company. Take advantage of that easy setting and practice speaking up. People is social environments are looking to dominate. You have people competing to be the superstar of the venue constantly. You are being judged at every moment of your public life. I experience this every time I go out, personally, and I know a lot of others do as well. Link to post Share on other sites
SJC2008 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 People is social environments are looking to dominate. You have people competing to be the superstar of the venue constantly. You are being judged at every moment of your public life. I experience this every time I go out, personally, and I know a lot of others do as well. I agree with this. One reason I'm so quiet is that people dominate me in conversation and only talk about what they want to talk about. Most people aren't good listeners. I'm tired of wondering if I'm too boring or not assertive enough etc. You shouldn't have to be assertive to get someone to listen to you. You listen to them, they listen to you. How hard is that? Link to post Share on other sites
endlessabyss Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I agree with this. One reason I'm so quiet is that people dominate me in conversation and only talk about what they want to talk about. Most people aren't good listeners. I'm tired of wondering if I'm too boring or not assertive enough etc. You shouldn't have to be assertive to get someone to listen to you. You listen to them, they listen to you. How hard is that? It's a rigged game. There are so many other variables that come into play, some not even in your control. I found these types of endeavors to be fruitless. It's all just superficial non-sense, with very little substance. Mindless chattering and show boating. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 What I'm reading is that some people don't enjoy being social. Dating is fundamentally a social activity. This presents an obvious problem. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
endlessabyss Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 What I'm reading is that some people don't enjoy being social. Dating is fundamentally a social activity. This presents an obvious problem. Wrong, dating is a competition. It has way more to do with just being social. Link to post Share on other sites
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