To bust or not to bust

[understand50]

Prepare yourself for the worst in any case. If nothing gone on, you can let it go, if it is a EA, or PA, think about what you want and how to react. Having a plan will help no mater what you find and allow you to keep the upper hand and keep on your goal, divorce or reconciliation. You are going to gut punched, so be ready. I know you think you know what is going on, but when you know for sure, it can be over whelming. Have a plan, have a script in your mind on what you want to say. If you do not have to use it, because the 10% came in, no loss.

 

Go into full evidence mode. Do not confront with out proof, but a talk now about, how she seems to be changing and hoping she is OK may help. Maybe letting her know you love her and looking forward to seeing her after you get back may stop the next step. Who knows? At this point, from reading LS, I think the PA has started. Hope I am wrong. Try and come home early if you can, and see what is up.

 

As this is happening in real time, there is proof, you just have to find it.

 

Wish you luck.

 

 

 

577

[fellini]

Off topic, but does this mean that you took her back?

 

If the outcome is that I'm right (hanging to a 5-10% probability I'm paranoid and nothing is going on) - I'll find the truth one way or another.

 

I think I'm getting the idea on what and how do I need to say before I can leave with (at least) clear conciousness I've done everything I can and not as affair enabling cuckold.

 

Yes. We are just past 2 years post Dday. i cannot impress upon you how much I would have preferred to catch on to her prior to her very long EA going PA. The evidence was there, the phone logs, inappropriate emails. I just never thought I had any reason to look.

 

If all you want to do is catch her red handed so you can leave, then just let it go and after a while, when her routines have genuinely changed, you can catch her. But if you want to save your marriage, waiting on digital photos from a PI taken at a motel makes no sense to me. She is your wife, if you cannot be clear and discuss this openly, then maybe the marriage isn't strong enough regardless. IMHO.

 

Good luck

[GorillaTheater]

If you want to gather evidence, this is a great place to start:

 

Standard Evidence Post

 

Every thing you want to know about VARs, keyloggers, retrieving information from phones, etc.

[Grapesofwrath]

Is it possible, on your phone plan, to get a report of all the texting activity? Kind of like what one uses to track a kid's phone? It won't show the content of the texts, but it shows the frequency and times. this might help you identify the number(s) that are recurring themes on her phone for either texts or calls. then you call the number, and find out who you are dealing with.

 

I support the "get proof" camp. You can't gaslight proof. A discussion of your concerns is not going to get the results you seek. If she cared deeply about your feelings in this arena, and was going to change behavior because of that, you likely wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. In order to get into an EA or PA, one must have no empathy toward the BS. so I think her empathy fund has run out, and an appeal to that part of her will fall on deaf ears.

[zinger]

Thanks all,

 

A lot of good feedback and suggestions. A sound body of knowledge that allowed me to - finally - evaluate my options and pencil the action plan. I'll post it later hoping you all will be kind enough to have a look.

 

In the meantime :

 

1) Evidence gathering work is in progress. I have studied the links and the process of settings things up is under way. At this moment I'd prefer not to detail what I'm planning but it will involve electronic and physical ssurveillance. Call me paranoid but one of the (what you seem to be calling red flags) for me was a Web history of dating, relationship and infidelity websites (her browser crashed and when restarted it restored the last session). So I don't want to reveal any details now if it makes any sense.

 

 

2) I have decided to go on the trip. I need to end this, and get out of it either with my shield or on it. Tertium non datur. I have however postponed it by one day so I can gent everything ready. Will also mean I'll spend the Saturday away from home.

 

3) Morro, that "go together" suggestion was spot on. We used to go together on my business trips all the time. Great experience for both of us. The fact that this time she was not that keen to go was another red flag for me.

[devilish innocent]

The argument I would use if I were in your shoes is that her friendship with the guy is making you really uncomfortable and unhappy. She can argue about what this friendship means to her. She can't argue about how it's making you feel because only you know your feelings. If she loves you, the fact that you're this bothered by it should be enough reason for her to stop regardless of what's actually going on between them. If you're worried that she'll just go underground with everything, then you need to find a way to have her show you evidence that nothing is happening. Good luck!

[aliveagain]

Sometimes you just have to sit her down, look her in her eyes and ask, "Is there anything you want to tell me?" than let her talk. If your sensing that something is going on than it probably is. Come home a day or two earlier than you tell her you will be gone. Velcro a Voice Activated Recorder under your bed and hope there is nothing on it when you return. Trust your gut.

[Morro72]

We used to go together on my business trips all the time. Great experience for both of us. The fact that this time she was not that keen to go was another red flag for me.

 

I assume there's enough behind the "not that keen" to set off an alarm. In any case, not decisive by itself but now you've got one more piece to the puzzle.

 

Good luck!

[Tayla]

Welcome to LS.

 

May i say this is the kindest of ways...... disregard 98% of projecting that goes on here. It reeks some days. Assuming things and then going on this bizarre witch hunt is unhealthy. I think only one poster seemed wise in asking you to speak in a non confronting manner...... it could be the difference in being a jerk for assuming or being a gent for being willing to discuss.

 

Ohh and rent the movie Star Chamber... it will teach you that even with a little bit of evidence ppl assume it alll....

[No Limit]

You've received good advice on gathering evidence, so I'll just write this for now;

 

I know your mind is all over the place, and I guess the coming business trip will feel like the longest ever, but try to focus on your work as good as you can. Don't bother planning what you'll say to her once you're home, your mental system will go crazy big time anyway should you be handed proof of an affair. Good luck.

[zinger]

Ok, thank you all, I have considered all the input. Seems to be the case the majority of responses have been divided into: Confront with "I know it all and this is the last chance for I would not tolerate the cheating" or to lay low and gather evidence.

 

I will have a talk soon but I'll keep it at a very friendly non-accusing level. To clarify: about 4 months ago we touched the subject. The context was based on the situation of the couple we have seen socially couple of times:

W: do you know A was caught cheating on B?

Me: (causally as I was busy doing something else). Well that's a shame, how is their divorce going?

W: Why are you assuming they are divorcing?

Me: (slightly surprised) How else should a man react to this?

W: So if I was cheating you wouldn't give me a second chance?

Me: You know I can forgive you almost anything - but not this.

W: Changes the topic

 

So I'll just remind her of that conversation and reiterate that if she is hypothetically she is caught being unfaithful - we will be done

Edited May 21, 2015 by zinger

[Morro72]

One non-innocent interpretation, among many more innocent possibilities, being that she was engaged in or contemplating something and wanted to gauge your reaction.

[spanz1]

if you have to go on the trip, how about Skype video chatting with her every night. if she can not do that or makes excuses ...you know she is somewhere else.

 

 

and that is a good point, you are NOT sure yet she is cheating. she may be acting odd for a host of other reasons. but once again, getting the info/facts, and you can make a better decision. I would not "confront" her without some concrete evidence....since she is at least 50% likely to NOT be cheating at this point.

[spanz1]

Ok, thank you all, I have considered all the input. Seems to be the case the majority of responses have been divided into: Confront with "I know it all and this is the last chance for I would not tolerate the cheating" or to lay low and gather evidence.

 

I will have a talk soon but I'll keep it at a very friendly non-accusing level. To clarify: about 4 months ago we touched the subject. The context was based on the situation of the couple we have seen socially couple of times:

W: do you know A was caught cheating on B?

Me: (causally as I was busy doing something else). Well that's a shame, how is their divorce going?

W: Why are you assuming they are divorcing?

Me: (slightly surprised) How else should a man react to this?

W: So if I was cheating you wouldn't give me a second chance?

Me: You know I can forgive you almost anything - but not this.

W: Changes the topic

 

So I'll just remind her of that conversation and reiterate that if she is hypothetically she is caught being unfaithful - we will be done

 

IF she is cheating, THAT is when she decided to take it all WAY underground. up until then, she might have been thinking of asking you for an open marriage.

[zinger]

I assume there's enough behind the "not that keen" to set off an alarm. In any case, not decisive by itself but now you've got one more piece to the puzzle.

 

Good luck!

 

Correct, I've got many small pieces of the puzzle; too small to act and too many to ignore. Nothing devastating (like her car parked for hours elsewhere). Just the travel, subtle character changes, not trying to get home asap after work as usual (but mostly 20-30 minutes adjure only), dress style changes. So I don't have a clear suspect (2 candidates). My logic tells I'm being unreasonable, my intuition screams that something is not right. I need to proceed very carefully.

 

I hope and pray I'm being paranoid, that it is something else I should be capable of brushing off easily. Like if she overspend (I have always encouraged her to spend more) or got fired from the job (negligible, she doesn't have to work). I know it is not health related either.

 

I hope that soon (perhaps after this talk or more realistically after the trip) I'll log on here and apologise for the false alarm and wasting your time. But for some reason I feel scared like I have never been scared since I was a little boy.

[zinger]

One non-innocent interpretation, among many more innocent possibilities, being that she was engaged in or contemplating something and wanted to gauge your reaction.

 

Goddamnit I didn't see that possibly

[zinger]

Spanz,

 

We always Skype when I'm away (or call at the very least). You are indeed correct, if this pattern changes this time it will make my situation real.

 

Asking me for an open marriage from all intents and purposes is equal to asking me to divorce her, she knows tha.

[Morro72]

Goddamnit I didn't see that possibly

 

No telling whether that's the correct interpretation but you'll know one way or the other pretty soon.

 

Were there any other things she's said over the past few weeks that may have been attempts to see how you would react?

[zinger]

Yes. We are just past 2 years post Dday. i cannot impress upon you how much I would have preferred to catch on to her prior to her very long EA going PA. The evidence was there, the phone logs, inappropriate emails. I just never thought I had any reason to look.

 

If all you want to do is catch her red handed so you can leave, then just let it go and after a while, when her routines have genuinely changed, you can catch her. But if you want to save your marriage, waiting on digital photos from a PI taken at a motel makes no sense to me. She is your wife, if you cannot be clear and discuss this openly, then maybe the marriage isn't strong enough regardless. IMHO.

 

Good luck

 

I don't know if they're are any appropriate words to comment on your situation. I'm afraid the possibility of me coming here again and asking "Dear Fellini, could you please share your experience with forgiving your WW" maybe be my reality soon.

But your post did help me. I'll write it here so I can come back and revisit:

 

I don't want to catch her (and end the good marriage we have/had)

I don't want to save my marriage by playing Kerberos

I want her to save or marriage by either proving to me I was jealous and insecure fool or by stopping once and forever until it is too late.

[bubbaganoosh]

If you have to be out of town on the weekend when she has the best possible chance to do what yo thinks she might do, then if it was me, I would tell her your leaving Thursday, ho hold up at a motel somewhere and keep and eye on her whereabouts. Maybe rent a car so she can see that it's your car and then you'll either find out if it's true or in your head. Then go to your meeting on Monday

[zinger]

Welcome to LS.

 

May i say this is the kindest of ways...... disregard 98% of projecting that goes on here. It reeks some days. Assuming things and then going on this bizarre witch hunt is unhealthy. I think only one poster seemed wise in asking you to speak in a non confronting manner...... it could be the difference in being a jerk for assuming or being a gent for being willing to discuss.

 

Ohh and rent the movie Star Chamber... it will teach you that even with a little bit of evidence ppl assume it alll....

 

Thanks Tayla,

 

As you may notice in my earlier posts - your advice has been on-boarded.

[zinger]

No telling whether that's the correct interpretation but you'll know one way or the other pretty soon.

 

Were there any other things she's said over the past few weeks that may have been attempts to see how you would react?

 

Nothing that I would (under normal circumstances) not call a stretch. Such as: recently a very attractive looking lady connected with me on LinkedIn (work related). My W ccommented on her not being jealous and trusting me. That was a bit out of context then.

[Morro72]

Some of what you mentioned (getting home a little later, attire changes, etc.) could also be related to new female friends at work - in particular, emulating someone she thinks has an interesting personality or sense of style). If the personality changes are affecting you negatively and the attire changes are the sort that seem intended to attract male attention, that's one thing, but if they're just changes, don't discount the influence of new women friends. Not everything women do revolves around men, it turns out

[Morro72]

Then, going off in the other direction, you might speculate that, in your "A cheating on B" example, that the reason she brought it up is that perhaps B, as an act of revenge on A, has gone after your wife, or that your wife, in sympathy for B, has offered him a shoulder to cry on. At this point we're getting way out there but stranger things have happened.

[whichwayisup]

Ok, thank you all, I have considered all the input. Seems to be the case the majority of responses have been divided into: Confront with "I know it all and this is the last chance for I would not tolerate the cheating" or to lay low and gather evidence.

 

I will have a talk soon but I'll keep it at a very friendly non-accusing level. To clarify: about 4 months ago we touched the subject. The context was based on the situation of the couple we have seen socially couple of times:

W: do you know A was caught cheating on B?

Me: (causally as I was busy doing something else). Well that's a shame, how is their divorce going?

W: Why are you assuming they are divorcing?

Me: (slightly surprised) How else should a man react to this?

W: So if I was cheating you wouldn't give me a second chance?

Me: You know I can forgive you almost anything - but not this.

W: Changes the topic

 

So I'll just remind her of that conversation and reiterate that if she is hypothetically she is caught being unfaithful - we will be done

 

Ha, she was fishing! Nicely done with the quick change of subject too.

 

From what you've said so far and her behaviour, she is definitely up to no good. Question is, how far has she gone with him(sex) and how attached is she to this guy?