A guy that doesnt think with his ****

[loverboy69]

If you treat any object of your sexual desire just like everyone else then you are not signaling to them that you might want something more.

 

You are right. Most men do treat those they are attracted to differently in general. For some guys it means acting more distant than they normally would be and for others it might mean getting more clingy.

 

My opinion is you are being too passive so females looking for a more aggressive male will pass you up.

[Male]

If you treat any object of your sexual desire just like everyone else then you are not signaling to them that you might want something more.

 

 

 

Why would I treat a woman different when I dont even know her yet? Anyone that treats a woman "different" upon first meeting is basing everything purely on her looks alone, since its impossible to determine if someone is truly a match that soon. Again, this is where logic comes into play instead of raw emotion or attraction. I just dont see why I would flirt and feed the ego of someone before I know they are compatible with me.

[autumnnight]

So you'd rather meet a guy that plays along with the game playing, rather than a guy that frowns upon it??? This is exactly what was talked about in an earlier post. A lot of guys "conform" in order to get with a woman, be it sex or dating. I do praise you for being honest, even though I disagree with the situation.

 

Umm...that is not what she said at all. Actually, refusing to show interest in a girl on principle is JUST as much of a game as taking initiative. It's just a different, more annoying, somewhat passive and cowardly game.

 

That's what's so funny. Men who eschew stepping up and asking as some "no games" strategy are STILL playing a game. Because they aren't just being up front and honest.

[calvincline47]

Same here. I've found that women do love my honesty. And they do tell me that I'm easy to talk to, and generally open up to me. But all of that only happens as long as I dont try to date them. If I'm trying to date them, it seems I have to be sly, mysterious, and not be so attentive.

 

I have to get to know a woman to be attracted to her. Most guys want to f**k a woman as soon as they see her. Women seem to sense that. Even though they say they "want a guy to like them for their who they are instead of their body", the guy that wants their body typically makes his intentions known from the start. The guy that wants to know her as a person usually risks being friendzoned.

 

Yeah, you definitely have to make your intentions known from the start.

 

If you do this, you avoid getting friendzoned and you also avoid wasting time (if she's truly not interested in you).

[calvincline47]

I'm early 30's and kind of new back to the dating pool. I have been dating a lot of girls in the 27-30 range and I have to say its the least game playing I have encountered. Its been great - girls are much more straight forward. Maybe its a magic window where they are all looking to settle down and get serious so the games are temporarily out while they race their biological clocks and friends to get married Might all come back when they get that out of their system.

 

Maybe.

 

To be fair, I've been mostly isolated for my late 20s and have not spent much time around single women my age.

 

Yeah it depends what you're looking for. Young guys, or just guys who want to get laid want as many options as possible. So they put up with the girls **** and play along and become pleasers. That is actually the main cause of the problem. Guys doing anything to get sex - leads to girls thinking they can do anything and still get guys.

 

But when you look for a LDR you are looking for someone who you actually like to be with. Not just have sex with. I am kind in that mode now after a few months of having fun and I have become ruthless with my dating. If I sense games or if a girl just doesn't fit the personality and type of girl I am looking for then - see you later.

 

It really all depends what you are there for.

 

The few that I have been around were average looking to cute and have their option of men. So I think that they can do anything they want and still get guys, from my observations.

 

In fact, one girl pretty much just typed her preferences into OLD and out came exactly what she wanted, despite the fact that we live in the middle of nowhere.

[toolforgrowth]

Umm...that is not what she said at all. Actually, refusing to show interest in a girl on principle is JUST as much of a game as taking initiative. It's just a different, more annoying, somewhat passive and cowardly game.

 

I gotta agree with this. I'll be the first to criticize female double standards (just ask AN! lol) but at some point a guy's gotta nut up and approach a woman he finds attractive. A partner probably isn't going to drop in your lap just because you want one. It does require a little bit of effort on your part.

 

That's what's so funny. Men who eschew stepping up and asking as some "no games" strategy are STILL playing a game. Because they aren't just being up front and honest.

 

I think it goes deeper than that. They're afraid of rejection so they immediately do the rejecting out of self preservation. It gives them a degree of control. By not approaching, they effectively take the power of rejection away from woman. Sure, it works...if your sole goal is to never be rejected. I get it.

 

But that means the OP will push away every potential mate, even if they're actually interested.

 

At some point, you gotta take a risk. The worst thing that'll happen is that they'll say no. What's the big deal? You haven't lost anything and nothing has changed.

 

Rejection is a part of life. Once you learn to accept that, you'll begin to feel much more at peace.

[jen1447]

I think most people who choose this tack aren't trying to eliminate the risk, just reduce it as much as possible within the framework of still desiring a relationship. It's definitely a 'safe' strategy, but not one without merits. It's bscly like being a conservative investor - you may never take a bath but your profits are likely to only ever be marginal.

 

The real risk elimination people aren't interested in relationships at all - isolated, alone, and with no hope of changing. The sad thing is some of them are actually justified in doing that.

[GoodOnPaper]

I think it goes deeper than that. They're afraid of rejection so they immediately do the rejecting out of self preservation.

 

Bingo. From my own experience, at the core of most of the panic and frustration you see from struggling guys who have "nice guy" issues is the feeling that we have no control over anything in the attraction and early stages of dating, so it's no surprise if some guys build up walls to protect themselves. For example, to this day, I hate being around stunningly beautiful women -- I just feel like a schmuck.

 

However, just about any guy with any sex drive at all will have some impulse to make himself stand out compared to other guys in some way. How "nice guys" can get in trouble early on is by trying to present themselves (ourselves) as the complete opposite of the "jerks" who we don't want to be like but who we see getting lots of women. They are too forward, suggestive, aggressive, and sex-first minded, so we think being the opposite of all that will make us stand out. I suppose it can, but not in the good way that we think it should. I think we have a case of that in this thread.

[autumnnight]

If a guy rejects first to avoid rejection, then honestly, it's kind of ridiculous to then complain about his lack of luck with women.

 

I mean...that isn't rocket science

[elaine567]

Her: Hi, how are you?

Him: What are you up to? What game are you playing?

Her: Er.. no game, just asking how you are?

Him: I know your type, I am not playing that game.

Her: OK, see ya...

Him: Phew! I'm glad I sorted her out, the minx...

[autumnnight]

Her: Hi, how are you?

Him: What are you up to? What game are you playing?

Her: Er.. no game, just asking how you are?

Him: I know your type, I am not playing that game.

Her: OK, see ya...

Him: Phew! I'm glad I sorted her out, the minx...

 

You forgot the last part:

 

Hey you guys! All women are crap! That beyotch wouldn't even give me a shot because my wallet isn't big enough! I'm gonna go post on Reddit!

[jen1447]

Her: Hi, how are you?

Him: What are you up to? What game are you playing?

Her: Er.. no game, just asking how you are?

Him: I know your type, I am not playing that game.

Her: OK, see ya...

Him: Phew! I'm glad I sorted her out, the minx...

 

Funny!

[toolforgrowth]

Her: Hi, how are you?

Him: What are you up to? What game are you playing?

Her: Er.. no game, just asking how you are?

Him: I know your type, I am not playing that game.

Her: OK, see ya...

Him: Phew! I'm glad I sorted her out, the minx...

 

I think there's a degree of truth to this in this case. Except I think it goes something like this:

 

Him: <looks at pretty woman>

Her: <going about her life>

Him: "I don't think with my d!ck so I won't treat you any differently than a friend."

Her: "Do you even have one?"

 

I'm not trying to bash the OP here at all. Rather, I'm trying to illustrate that women typically want a man. A man doesn't necessarily think with his johnson, but he at least exhibits traits of having one.

 

If you friendzone a woman, don't blame her for acting like a friend and not a romantic interest.

[toolforgrowth]

You forgot the last part:

 

Hey you guys! All women are crap! That beyotch wouldn't even give me a shot because my wallet isn't big enough! I'm gonna go post on Reddit!

 

I gotta admit, even I got a chuckle out of this.

 

Yes, yes, irony and all that...I get it.

[Male]

If you friendzone a woman, don't blame her for acting like a friend and not a romantic interest.

 

So when women say "I just want to get to know a guy first" are you supposed to get to know her, or dismiss anything she says and make moves on her? Thats where the disconnect, game-playing, and double standards come into play. MOST women are not upfront and straight forward with what THEIR intentions/wants are. Usually because they change their intentions/wants on a regular basis as they get to know the guy better. Its not even worth the effort from my point of view. Everyone talks as if the guy is supposed to present himself as a great guy with no memory of any of his past interactions with any woman. MOST women are constantly accessing and over analyzing a guy especially during a first date/meet up. Women constantly lie to my face that they want to go on a 2nd date, but then when you call for that 2nd date, they either flat out ignore you, or beat around the bush hoping you take the hint. WHY would I invest any emotion other than "getting to know her" before I even know if a woman is truely interested in me at all??? Thats the double standard of this that obviously nobody gets. As the guy, I'm supposed to put myself out there, risk all the rejection, show my hand, invest most of the energy, yet the woman gets to sit back, with a poker face on, and judge me on how much I'm attracted to her, how much male sexuality I'm oozing, and how confident I am towards her??? A guy that thinks with his dick doesnt see any of this. All he cares/thinks/wants is to get in her pants, date her, or try to do whatever he can to get her to like him. But a guy like me that presents myself in the same cautions manner as the woman....I get labeled, and shunned. I get blackballed because I'm not following the "rules" of interaction.

 

The more you use your brain, and the less you use your dick when it comes to dating, the more irritated and less attractive interacting with women becomes.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Male

[autumnnight]

WHY would I invest any emotion other than "getting to know her" before I even know if a woman is truely interested in me at all???

 

Because most women have to get to know you before they know if they are truly interested. See, we don't have that instant, "nice tits, I want sex," gene. Most of us would like to know a but about what a guy is about before we decide, "Yep, I'm going to date him." And before I hear the "women drop their pants instantly for bad boys" whinefest, I am talking about the typical quality woman that wants a relationship.

 

If all you want is, "nice tits, let's have sex," then I have no advice for you because I'm not into that kind of shallow crap.

[Male]

Because most women have to get to know you before they know if they are truly interested.

 

 

EXACTLY! So if I only present myself as a nice friendly guy trying to get to know her than WHY do most women friendzone guys in said situation, since he isnt exerting his attraction to her?? Its a blatant double standard. She wants him to show his interest and attraction to her so she can judge him, but she just "wants to be friends first so she can get to know him".

 

I dont see how anyone can disagree that its not a double standard.

[toolforgrowth]

So when women say "I just want to get to know a guy first" are you supposed to get to know her, or dismiss anything she says and make moves on her?

 

I would continue getting to know her...along with other women at the same time. When a woman says, "I just want to get to know a guy first," I don't take that as a sign that she's willing to date me and only me. Would I continue to spend time with her, as long as it suited me? Sure. Would I turn down other offers? Heck no.

 

She's not the only woman in the world. If she seems wishy washy about you, why would you want to continue investing all this emotional energy into her? Take it for what it is.

 

My response would be, "Okay, that's reasonable. If you ever want to hang out, here's my number." And then leave it. Change the subject, or if you have to leave, then go. If you meet another attractive lady on your way out, start chatting her up. Because when a woman says that, she's essentially saying that she's not going to make any sort of commitment to you whatsoever; so why would you effectively take yourself off the market if she won't do the same thing?

 

I did a little multi-dating once. Nothing major, just spending a little bit of time chatting up a couple women at the same time. One of them became my GF. I was attracted to both women, and the one I didn't get with was really cute, but also very wishy washy. It didn't take me long to delete her number, unfriend her from Facebook, and focus on my GF. And I'm glad I did, because she is the sweetest lady I've ever met. And the luvin is HAWWWT. My point is that if I had dumped all my eggs in the other lady's basket, I would have completely missed out on a better option.

 

So when you hear "I just want to get to know you first," take it at face value. It means nothing more than that. Keep putting yourself out there with other women in the meantime. If she changes her mind and you've met somebody else, too bad for her.

[Male]

 

So when you hear "I just want to get to know you first," take it at face value. It means nothing more than that. Keep putting yourself out there with other women in the meantime. If she changes her mind and you've met somebody else, too bad for her.

 

I didnt say anything about taking myself off the market.

 

A woman gets to present herself as a friend. She doesnt show any attraction to the guy at all. She doesnt kiss him, or any of that, because she wants to get to know him as a person first before she takes the next step.

 

But when a guy does the EXACT same thing to a woman, HE will usually get freindzoned because he isnt "being a man and going after what he wants".

 

But any guy that does go after what he wants that early on, is thinking with his dick, not because he actually knows her, or is attracted to her for the person she is.

[toolforgrowth]

I didnt say anything about taking myself off the market.

 

A woman gets to present herself as a friend. She doesnt show any attraction to the guy at all. She doesnt kiss him, or any of that, because she wants to get to know him as a person first before she takes the next step.

 

If she's presenting herself as a friend, then she's probably friendzoning you. It happens. That's why you move on to the next one.

 

But when a guy does the EXACT same thing to a woman, HE will usually get freindzoned because he isnt "being a man and going after what he wants".

 

Right. Because friendzoning is friendzoning, regardless of which gender is doing it. You're being friendzoned because they're not interested in you. So when you friendzone them, they come to the same conclusion with your actions.

 

This is why the women in this thread are stating that you're playing games; you are. You are not behaving authentically about your real intentions.

 

But any guy that does go after what he wants that early on, is thinking with his dick, not because he actually knows her, or is attracted to her for the person she is.

 

False. You can express romantic interest in a woman without wanting to hop in the sack. My GF and I went out off and on for about a month before we slept together. I showed her I was interested in her in other ways besides sex; I held doors open for her, I listened to what she was saying, and I also simply asked her what she was looking for. I made it clear that I wasn't looking for a pump and dump, but that I also am searching for a woman to be my partner. I also said it would be okay to take my time getting there. So she knew that I was looking for a relationship, and that I wanted to have more in common with a person than just sexual attraction. But I also told her I have a high sex drive, so she knew right from the get-go... lol

 

I made it clear that if I went out with a woman, it was to get to know her towards the end goal of getting in a relationship, but that I also wasn't going to get in a relationship with the wrong person. And that I enjoyed sex (a lot), but that I wasn't looking for an NSA romp. In other words, I effectively communicated exactly what my intentions were...no games played. And I struck out with some women, and succeeded with others. That's life, bro. The point is I was authentic. And I found an amazing lady who appreciates me because of it.

[Phoe]

So when women say "I just want to get to know a guy first" are you supposed to get to know her, or dismiss anything she says and make moves on her? Thats where the disconnect, game-playing, and double standards come into play. MOST women are not upfront and straight forward with what THEIR intentions/wants are. Usually because they change their intentions/wants on a regular basis as they get to know the guy better. Its not even worth the effort from my point of view. Everyone talks as if the guy is supposed to present himself as a great guy with no memory of any of his past interactions with any woman. MOST women are constantly accessing and over analyzing a guy especially during a first date/meet up. Women constantly lie to my face that they want to go on a 2nd date, but then when you call for that 2nd date, they either flat out ignore you, or beat around the bush hoping you take the hint. WHY would I invest any emotion other than "getting to know her" before I even know if a woman is truely interested in me at all??? Thats the double standard of this that obviously nobody gets. As the guy, I'm supposed to put myself out there, risk all the rejection, show my hand, invest most of the energy, yet the woman gets to sit back, with a poker face on, and judge me on how much I'm attracted to her, how much male sexuality I'm oozing, and how confident I am towards her??? A guy that thinks with his dick doesnt see any of this. All he cares/thinks/wants is to get in her pants, date her, or try to do whatever he can to get her to like him. But a guy like me that presents myself in the same cautions manner as the woman....I get labeled, and shunned. I get blackballed because I'm not following the "rules" of interaction.

 

The more you use your brain, and the less you use your dick when it comes to dating, the more irritated and less attractive interacting with women becomes.

 

It's quite simple to simultaneously take the time to get to know a woman, make her feel desired and court her, while not just instantaneously jumping into "LETS BONE!" territory.

 

There's a man who is doing that with me this very instant. Taking the time to get to know each other, while still showing each other that we are very interested. In fact, it makes the interest that much stronger for me.

 

That is by no means a friend zone. Nope.

[toolforgrowth]

It's quite simple to simultaneously take the time to get to know a woman, make her feel desired and court her, while not just instantaneously jumping into "LETS BONE!" territory.

 

There's a man who is doing that with me this very instant. Taking the time to get to know each other, while still showing each other that we are very interested. In fact, it makes the interest that much stronger for me.

 

That is by no means a friend zone. Nope.

 

Listen to what she's saying. She's a well-respected member around here, and has provided invaluable insights for us guys.

 

It is indeed possible for a man to show a woman he's interested without involving either person's crotch.

 

There's a man who is doing that with me this very instant.

 

^.-

 

Way to go Phoe! You've always seemed like a really neat lady, and the pic you had up for a while was adorable. He's gonna be a lucky guy.

[Male]

False. You can express romantic interest in a woman without wanting to hop in the sack. My GF and I went out off and on for about a month before we slept together. I showed her I was interested in her in other ways besides sex; I held doors open for her, I listened to what she was saying, and I also simply asked her what she was looking for. I made it clear that I wasn't looking for a pump and dump

 

I hold doors open and always listen to people I converse with....especially a woman that I am on a date with. How in the world does THAT prove to a woman that I am interested in her?????? In my book thats common courtesy across the board. Not special treatment.

[Male]

It's quite simple to simultaneously take the time to get to know a woman, make her feel desired and court her, while not just instantaneously jumping into "LETS BONE!" territory.

 

There's a man who is doing that with me this very instant. Taking the time to get to know each other, while still showing each other that we are very interested. In fact, it makes the interest that much stronger for me.

 

That is by no means a friend zone. Nope.

 

 

Please explain exactly how you show each other you are very interested while taking time to get to know each other.

[Phoe]

Listen to what she's saying. She's a well-respected member around here, and has provided invaluable insights for us guys.

 

It is indeed possible for a man to show a woman he's interested without involving either person's crotch.

 

 

 

^.-

 

Way to go Phoe! You've always seemed like a really neat lady, and the pic you had up for a while was adorable. He's gonna be a lucky guy.

 

 

Aww, this is such a kind post! Thank you

 

I mean... Don't get me wrong, there is definitely tension and chemistry there that is effecting both of us, but he has never pushed or pressured in the slightest. He's allowed me the time to move at my snails pace and grow comfortable. I'm so amazed at the patience he has shown me.