The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[Ruby Slippers]

Which is it?

Yes, it occurred to me later that I used to insist on paying for dates, back when I was clueless and a bit brainwashed

[edgygirl]

sabaton - If a woman is not attracted to a man, why would she want to go on more dates with him??? There are two explanations as I see it:

 

1. She's a gold digger;

2. Trying to make it work with someone who she doesn't want to rip the clothes off (I'm guilty of having done it a couple of times as an experiment to see if my attraction would grow - I know now that doesn't work)

 

I think a woman who is sexual with you soon after meeting either

 

3. Doesn't understand how things should progress if she's looking for a relationship (I've been guilty of that too, but thankfully sobered up to protect my heart), or

 

4. she doesn't want a relationship.

 

You're thinking like a man in your 20s; I see things differently as I am older and looking for a real relationship and life partner. So, we probably can't even discuss our needs and expectations as they are so different.

 

I have a super high sexual drive yet lately prefer to be celibate if I am not with a man who is relationship material

[sabaton]

Yes, it occurred to me later that I used to insist on paying for dates, back when I was clueless and a bit brainwashed

 

 

hehe, maybe the societal expectation of men paying for dates and women thinking that's natural is the only brainwashing here, and you were right when you were a young woman

[Ruby Slippers]

Personally, I'd have no complaints about paying for dates to make the woman happy if it guaranteed the woman would do the things to make me happy.

But of course. Yes, I want a strong, masculine man, and as soon as I find a good one, I'm his and happily go to the ends of the earth to please him. I'm laser focused and high level when it comes to pleasing my man and being his dream girl in the bedroom, kitchen, on dates, among his friends and family, etc.

 

I love nothing more than making my man feel like The Man and letting him bring out the most feminine aspects of me.

[Ruby Slippers]

I think if I were a woman in her later stages 40's/50's etc, I would be VERY careful how you approach this...If you want the guy to be the heavy all or even most of the time, you are probably going to scare a lot of good guys off...

Then so be it. I'd rather go it alone than be in some arrangement that doesn't excite me or turn me on.

 

I think what edgygirl and I are trying to say, tactfully, is that it's an actual physical turn-off when a man lets you reach down in your purse to pay for certain things during the courtship stage. If I were dripping wet for the man, and he didn't pay for certain things, I would literally dry up. Can I be any clearer?

 

To me it makes perfect sense. As long as a woman has a sex drive and is still menstruating, her body is likely capable of producing offspring. She wants sex, but doesn't want it with a man who isn't capable of providing for her and potential children. Trust me, my body will tell me very clearly that a man who shows signs he can't provide isn't going to cut it.

[sabaton]

sabaton - If a woman is not attracted to a man, why would she want to go on more dates with him??? There are two explanations as I see it:

For several reasons. She's bored and she wants to be entertained. She has a boyfriend but her boyfriend ignores her most of the time. She has money issues and she wants to eat fancy. she's going to find a guy to pay for it.

 

Now 23, Sophia Chartreuse was wined and dined to the tune of thousands

In one year on the paid dating site the photographer had banked over £12,000 ($15,000).

For each first date she made roughly £80 ($100) and once was even paid £240 ($300) to be taken out.

The Portland, Oregon, native even claimed it was a fun way for singles looking for Valentines dates to find someone.

Sophia said: "My friend told me about it and I had to try it out.

"I was curious, impulsive and had champagne taste but a beer budget.

 

1. She's a gold digger;

Yes, and there's attention-diggers, time-diggers, mentally energy diggers. Not such gold-diggers. A guy has to be weary about all of that. And of course different Countries are going to have a higher percentage of gold-diggers, making you as a man using a woman's desire and expectation to get the date paid entirely by him, as a way to figure out if she's attracted to him or to what he can do for her.

 

When I lived in Greece for a year, not long after the Greek economy crashed down, I had to pretend to have no job, because it got to the point of women entering relationships with men who had a job. ANY job. Making it nearly impossible to figure out if she is sleeping with me because i make her genitals tingle when she looks at me, or because I can help her get out of her parents house.

 

2. Trying to make it work with someone who she doesn't want to rip the clothes off (I'm guilty of having done it a couple of times as an experiment to see if my attraction would grow - I know now that doesn't work)

Yeah, it doesn't. I want sexual attraction to be there right from the start. I look at a woman and I know if I'm attracted to her. I won't grow attracted to her over time, and I want a woman who dates me to be the same way with me.

 

I think a woman who is sexual with you soon after meeting either

 

3. Doesn't understand how things should progress if she's looking for a relationship (I've been guilty of that too, but thankfully sobered up to protect my heart), or

My mother approached my father first. She saw him at their local restaurant, he was busy talking to his friends and didn't see her. She went up to him, started talking to him, asked him out on a date. They went to the movies together that same night, slept with each other, and my dad proposed to her next morning. They've been happily married to each other for what, 40 years now.

 

A woman who sleeps with me on the first date is telling me that she values me. She's telling me that she can see herself with me in the long run, because she wants me to see her how she is. To know she has a high sex drive, doesn't have issues related to her body-image(lots of attractive women think they are themselves nothing special, and I don't want to deal with that) and if I stick around after sex it's because I want to be with her.

 

4. she doesn't want a relationship.

No, she does. She might not want a relationship lasting decades, but it will last 6 months, 1 year, and that's good enough. It's a 6 months to one year relationship with lots of sex, good sex.

 

You're thinking like a man in your 20s; I see things differently as I am older and looking for a real relationship and life partner. So, we probably can't even discuss our needs and expectations as they are so different.

How am I thinking like a man in his 20s? How does a man in his 20s think?

[Shining One]

If I were dripping wet for the man, and he didn't pay for certain things, I would literally dry up.

If you're dry for a man, would him paying for your dinner make you wet? Will it guarantee him your company after dinner?

[sabaton]

But of course. Yes, I want a strong, masculine man, and as soon as I find a good one, I'm his and happily go to the ends of the earth to please him. I'm laser focused and high level when it comes to pleasing my man and being his dream girl in the bedroom, kitchen, on dates, among his friends and family, etc.

 

I love nothing more than making my man feel like The Man and letting him bring out the most feminine aspects of me.

 

I used to work construction as a teen and after I became an adult I had several sorts of work. When I lived with my parents it was I who would go to the grocery store and carry all of the groceries on my own. It was me who'd mount and dismount and clean the furniture my mother couldn't deal with because she's 4'10'' and 90lbs.

 

I worked in my grandpa's farm for years. Cutting down trees, chopping wood, carrying around calfs that didn't want to obey me. I farmed, I toiled. I used the shovel everyday.

 

I used to load and unload pallets of goods manually everyday. I used to work as a furniture mover. I worked as a bouncer before I found my one true love: bartendering nightclubs.

 

I don't know. I might be wrong. But that might make me a strong, masculine man. I'm not entirely sure if I'm getting it right.

 

Spending money on a woman/date/girlfriend/wife makes a man masculine and strong? So lets say a powerful politician spends a lot of money on escorts or playboy bunnies to sleep with him. Does that make him strong and masculine?

 

 

What about physical presence and safety?

 

 

a 5'5'' 100lbs Aziz Ansari can protect a woman from a 5'10'' 190lbs man if the need is there? If he pays for the date, yeah?

Edited January 19, 2019 by sabaton

[Ruby Slippers]

If you're dry for a man, would him paying for your dinner make you wet? Will it guarantee him your company after dinner?

It's very unlikely I'm going to be on even a first date with a man who doesn't turn me on. If I'm letting a man take me out on a date, my part of the deal is I only accept if I'm truly interested and attracted, sincere. I've never understood the concept of accepting dates for a free meal or entertainment. I'm an excellent cook, I enjoy my own company, and time is precious. I don't go out with a man unless I'm very interested and see strong potential for a great relationship.

 

So I honestly can't remember a time I was on a date when I wasn't interested in the man and turned on by him.

 

I imagine that if I weren't attracted at all, I would definitely insist on paying for half, since it isn't fair to accept if you have no intention to continue.

 

I realize not all women are like this. But rather than not paying for dates, I think men should be more selective about whom they take out on dates. Just being physically attracted to her is not enough. You need to get pretty good indicators she has good character before spending any money to date her.

[Ruby Slippers]

Spending money on a woman/date/girlfriend/wife makes a man masculine and strong? So lets say a powerful politician spends a lot of money on escorts or playboy bunnies to sleep with him. Does that make him strong and masculine?

It's part of it. Focusing the product of his hard work and efforts on us and our relationship - yeah, that's super freaking hot. I know that when my man works hard for us, I want to give him the moon, and I come pretty close

 

The escort argument doesn't hold, because part of what makes it so hot is the exclusivity, the fact that he's chosen ME to share the fruits of his labor with.

[sabaton]

It's very unlikely I'm going to be on even a first date with a man who doesn't turn me on.

Yes, but that's you. My mother also never went on a date with a man she didn't see herself having sex with, and actually wanting to have it. But men can't assume every woman is like you or my mother, and men have to pay rent/mortgage, college debt, car payments, all of the expenses that comes from having a car, buying food, clothes, health insurance, heading out to the dentist and so on.

 

Dating can be extremely expensive for a man if he follows that 1950s dating dynamics that is only in effect in The United States of America and the Middle-East and India.

 

If I'm letting a man take me out on a date, my part of the deal is I only accept if I'm truly interested and attracted, sincere. I've never understood the concept of accepting dates for a free meal or entertainment.

That's awesome. But the problem is that many women understand the concept of accepting a date for a free meal or entertaiment or to make their boyfriends jealous as soon as they turn 13 and realize boys want to smash.

 

I imagine that if I weren't attracted at all, I would definitely insist on paying for half, since it isn't fair to accept if you have no intention to continue.

over here, in the Netherlands, where the going dutch term was coined, women who are interested in a man actually offer to pay and do pay their share, because they want the man to take her seriously, and to give the hint that they might see him as a potential relationships.

 

Here in Spain, where women are going to remain dateless and boyfriendless for decades no matter how attractive they are if they expect a guy to pay, are also going to pay for her own share of the bill.

 

I realize not all women are like this. But rather than not paying for dates, I think men should be more selective about whom they take out on dates.

That kinda gives the impression that every man is Neymar Junior, who can afford to be extremely selective about the women he takes out on a date.

 

Just being physically attracted to her is not enough. You need to get pretty good indicators she has good character before spending any money to date her.

Yeah, before you spend money on her you need to find out if she has good character and if she does have good character, she's a hard working young woman who doesn't want a man to pay for her bills because she wants him to see her as an equal.

[edgygirl]

Agree with Ruby Slippers 100%. I'm exactly the same and only go on dates I'm interested on, so the idea of attention (or whatever-) seeking women repulses me.

[sabaton]

Agree with Ruby Slippers 100%. I'm exactly the same and only go on dates I'm interested on, so the idea of attention (or whatever-) seeking women repulses me.

 

That's good. Shame there's too many women who see dating as a way to put food in their belly without paying for it, to get attention, and to get gifts. A guy has to pay safe, money doesn't grow on trees. Therefore it's better to do it like the Europeans do.

 

Hang out, have sex with each other, and if you like each other and are compatible enough with each other go on a date.

 

Although I prefer to hang out, I'm open to go on dates. As long as the woman in question pays for her share and doesn't expect me to pick her up on my car, because my car consists of these two finely worked on legs below my torso.

[edgygirl]

sabaton - yes I know about these stories. So I guess the solution is to become good at reading women's personalities. Shouldn't be that hard to gauge what she's looking for but what do I know... maybe they're good at being manipulative. We women also have to try to gauge if men are players and not looking for a LTR, so it's the same kind of problem.

 

Dating is a very American thing. I never did the dating thing in the other countries I've lived before. As per car, depending on the location you live, we know it can be important to have one if you want to take a woman out. Where I live it's irrelevant as everyone uses public transportation.

 

On the other hand, "hang out have sex and then go on a date" is not the best situation for women looking for a real relationship. It's psychologically and emotionally damaging for us and makes me think maybe the American dating process is indeed better and a smart way of doing things despite being frustrating. Being used, as a woman, for sex, and using sex to see if there is compatibility, is even more frustrating than the American dating process.

Edited January 19, 2019 by edgygirl

[littleblackheart]

Dating is a very American thing.

 

There clearly are cultural differences.

 

In the USA dating context, it seems like multi-dating is the norm, especially when using OLD. I don't do either (cultural and personal preferences - I find both to be off-putting); in that context, I really don't understand why a man would have to spend anything.

 

In my home country, we don't have the 'casual dating' period involving multi-dating. It's assumed that you are exclusive by the simple fact that you are dating (not the same thing as being committed or serious), even when you use OLD. That's the standard.

 

edgygirl, I remember you saying you only date men within your culture; if men in your culture usually do the paying on dates, it would make sense for you do apply your own cultural rules and preferences.

[edgygirl]

My culture (Jews) are really Americanized, and they usually adapt to the way the country we live in behaves, and act however the local culture does dating-wise. In the US usually men pay for initial dates.

 

I actually really dislike multi-dating, the only reason I do it is to not obsess with a particular man before knowing if he likes me and is willing to go exclusive. That's the main downside of dating here.

 

edgygirl, I remember you saying you only date men within your culture; if men in your culture usually do the paying on dates, it would make sense for you do apply your own cultural rules and preferences.

[littleblackheart]

My culture (Jews) are really Americanized, and they usually adapt to the way the country we live in behaves, and act however the local culture does dating-wise. In the US usually men pay for initial dates.

 

Fair enough; I assumed it was a more balanced situation where men and women took turn because of the multi-dating. It doesn't really seem fair to me to let a multitude of men I don't know pay for me and a bunch of other women as well, but I guess that's a huge cultural difference.

 

In that case I guess an American multi-dating man who pays for all the dates had better have a very healthy bank balance or be particularly picky with his choice of dates!

Edited January 19, 2019 by littleblackheart

[edgygirl]

I still remember one of the first online dates I went on here. I also felt super weird letting a guy pay the whole dinner (and it was a fancy Japanese multi-course one). I made a point to pay half. I can tell he was extremely weirded out about it and there was tension in the air. I didn't even understand it, and then asked people about it later. They told me I probably conveyed I wasn't interested as I really insisted in paying half.

 

After being here for over a decade, I now find it really strange when it looks like a man wants me to help on the first dates I guess we get used to everything in life, specially in a new country.

 

You cannot really live in my city if you don't make a healthy paycheck. I am not sure how it works in smaller cities.

 

It doesn't really seem fair to me to let a multitude of men I don't know pay for me and a bunch of other women as well, but I guess that's a huge cultural difference.

 

In that case I guess an American multi-dating man who pays for all the dates had better have a very healthy bank balance or be particularly picky with his choice of dates!

[thefooloftheyear]

There clearly are cultural differences.

 

In the USA dating context, it seems like multi-dating is the norm, especially when using OLD. I don't do either (cultural and personal preferences - I find both to be off-putting); in that context, I really don't understand why a man would have to spend anything.

 

In my home country, we don't have the 'casual dating' period involving multi-dating. It's assumed that you are exclusive by the simple fact that you are dating (not the same thing as being committed or serious), even when you use OLD. That's the standard.

.

 

It's really not that much different here...Don't go by what you read here....I've probably read more than one post on here where people proclaimed pigs actually do fly...

 

TFY

[littleblackheart]

They told me I probably conveyed I wasn't interested as I really insisted in paying half.

 

There's some truth to that, I'm sure.

 

Tbh, dating sounds like a major chore from my perspective, never mind multi-dating. Ultimately, if your system works for you in your demographic and location, that's what counts!

[edgygirl]

It is indeed. Draining. Frustrating. A lot of work. I wish I could just find the right person and stop the dating insanity already. I do get as many dates as I want with men I find interesting; if it's really working I can't say as I'm yet to find the right person

 

Tbh, dating sounds like a major chore from my perspective, never mind multi-dating. Ultimately, if your system works for you in your demographic and location, that's what counts!

[Els]

It's very unlikely I'm going to be on even a first date with a man who doesn't turn me on. If I'm letting a man take me out on a date, my part of the deal is I only accept if I'm truly interested and attracted, sincere. I've never understood the concept of accepting dates for a free meal or entertainment. I'm an excellent cook, I enjoy my own company, and time is precious. I don't go out with a man unless I'm very interested and see strong potential for a great relationship.

 

 

I don't understand this, either. A typical dinner date takes, what, 6 hours? To get ready, get there, spend time together, get back. Assuming your own meal cost $60 (and really, if anyone is paying more than that on a regular basis, they need to either own their choice to do so, or get better at finding decent mid-range restaurants), that's a grand return of $10 per hour, not including the cost of hair/makeup/clothes/grooming, gas, parking, etc.

 

 

IMO it would be really, really stupid of anyone to go out with someone they didn't like just for a "free" meal.

[Shining One]

IMO it would be really, really stupid of anyone to go out with someone they didn't like just for a "free" meal.

There was that young woman in New York who dated for free meals so she could save on her food/drink budget. It worked out to be roughly $1200 in supplemental income. She's an anomaly though and I don't think many women are that methodical about it.

 

Sometimes a woman just wants a night out at someone else's expense.

Did I ever go out with a guy just for the night out and free meal? Yeah. I did. Like I said dating sucks.

[justwhoiam]

Do most women want men to pay on a date? Yes.

Is that a good thing? Yes.

 

 

Some food for thought:

 

 

1. LEVEL OF COMFORT. It can happen that I don't feel comfortable if a man is paying for me, whatever he's paying for. So, logically, if a woman feels comfortable with a man paying, that's a good sign to begin with.

 

 

2. INVITE AS SOCIAL CONVENTION. As others already mentioned, if A invites B, everything's on A. It's an invite. That's regardless of any gender issue. It's a social convention.

 

 

3. LEVEL OF EFFORT. Women like (read "are naturally attracted to") men who can go out of their way for them to show their interest (obviously there are other factors at play too, and that's just one of them). How far can he go? If he can't bother with paying for a date he asked for, then what gives?

 

 

4. WAY TO IMPRESS. In my culture, a girl/woman will usually offer to pay her part out of politeness (and she will insist on that in certain cases, see point #1). Rest assured that - at some point after a first date - she will think of what he did when it was time to pay. It will say a lot about him on so many levels. A first date is when a man plays his cards, and he wants to impress her somehow. She'll look back and think of how nice he was to her. It's part of female's daydreaming if she falls for him. The man can forge that daydreaming through his behavior.

 

 

5. POTENTIAL LEVEL OF SERIOUSNESS. People dating might be looking for different things (from casual encounters to a steady relationship). As splitting the check kind of screams "no big deal", if he wants her to think there might be potential, he'd better pay.

 

 

6. ALL THE OTHER VARIABLES. All the other factors many of which have been mentioned already, like: there's a lot of competition around, no one wants a stingy man, he should be a provider, men usually make more than women, etc. Some apply only in some cases, some might be partially valid points.

[Els]

There was that young woman in New York who dated for free meals so she could save on her food/drink budget. It worked out to be roughly $1200 in supplemental income. She's an anomaly though and I don't think many women are that methodical about it.

 

Sometimes a woman just wants a night out at someone else's expense.

 

 

This is so bizarre. If she put that much time and effort into her career or side venture, I'm sure she'd earn an additional $1200/month, or more. Besides, does she wear the same clothes to every date, not use any makeup or hair products, get the guy (a virtual stranger) to pick her up every time, etc?

 

 

 

Dating solely for free food/drinks has got to be the worst time to money conversion I've ever heard of, not even counting the ethical aspect. There ARE gold diggers out there, but that's an entirely different premise. They won't be targeting the average man paying for an average dinner - they'll be aiming for all-expenses-paid trips overseas, yachts, fancy cars.