Demeaning comments about body

[somedude81]

Somedude, this needs to stop.

 

You clearly have no respect for my boundaries.

 

You made me feel pressured on these boards, stressed me out, and made me very uncomfortable. I blocked you several months ago because I do not want that in my life.

 

Despite being blocked and being told that I want to be left alone, you continue to try to communicate with me, you continue to have others message me for you.

 

And I'm especially tired of others encouraging this! Telling me to just meet up.

 

So for months now, you've "played nice" and expect it all to just go away and I talk to you again and you get what you want. That's your view. My view is that for months now you've continued to disrespect my boundaries and push for contact with me and further make me uncomfortable.

 

Yet you expect me to do what you want, and when that doesn't happen, you insult me, implying it's no wonder that I struggle.

 

It doesn't work that way. I don't want this in my life. This needs to stop!

 

Phoe, I'm not trying to stress you out or push your boundaries.

 

I asked one person to talk to you on my behalf and that was months ago. Since then all I've done is address a post to you every once in a while. Sometimes you respond to them. That's it. I haven't done anymore than that in months.

 

Frankly Phoe, I feel that you aren’t understanding the context of some of my posts and you end up taking them in the wrong way and then you feel insulted, when it wasn’t my intention at all. As you said so yourself, there are some things that you just don't get about social situations.

 

Or also likely is that due to my own social awkwardness I’m not really expressing what I want to say how I want to say it, and it’s even harder to communicate on a forum like this. I hope you realize that we are both socially awkward and yet you are the one who isn’t being patient and getting upset. That's not fair. I’m not saying that to insult you, just trying to help you see where I’m coming from.

 

I would like to talk more with you but only if you allow it.

 

The only thing that I’m going to say about the meeting up thing is that people can tell that you and I are very similar.

[Phoe]

If there are only 10 coworkers that have issues with you, out of 100, that's not many. I was under the impression that everyone hated you. Not everyone is going to like you, and spending so much time trying to figure out why is a wasted effort. Just ignore whoever doesn't like you and avoid talking to them.

 

See, I had no clue that I was giving off the impression that everyone hated me, because in my mind I was only referring to a handful of people, and didn't realize my lack of clarification was an issue.

 

Sometimes I give too many details, sometimes I don't give enough, and I can't tell the difference.

 

I agree, 10% of folks being jerky is not bad at all. I really like my workplace. But sometimes those 10% get in just a really foul mood or something, and over time the comments get to me.

 

I don't want those folks to like me. But I want them to not be jerky. Just be civil for christ's sake!

[CrystalCastles]

See, I had no clue that I was giving off the impression that everyone hated me, because in my mind I was only referring to a handful of people, and didn't realize my lack of clarification was an issue.

 

Sometimes I give too many details, sometimes I don't give enough, and I can't tell the difference.

 

I agree, 10% of folks being jerky is not bad at all. I really like my workplace. But sometimes those 10% get in just a really foul mood or something, and over time the comments get to me.

 

I don't want those folks to like me. But I want them to not be jerky. Just be civil for christ's sake!

 

Lol! I got the impression that there were just 10 trolls working at your workplace and nobody else. That sure clarifies things.

 

In that case, just ignore them. I realize its easier said than done, however you know who is a troll, so stay away from them. My mom always said to me "don't get involved". So just don't get involved, stay away and don't feed the trolls. They'll see that they're not getting a rise out of you so they'll take the hint and piss off.

 

You don't need to try so hard to make bad people like you. They are bad people, I doubt you'll change their minds. Don't talk to that Mandy troll about softball either. I'm sure there are other people you can talk to, you can even make a thread about it in the Water Cooler if you want.

[xxoo]

You mentioned trying to hard. Why even try with some small percentage? Why even talk to them? Just MYOB and smile and ignore them.

[xxoo]

 

But perhaps I just shouldn't really try to be involved in conversations at work at all. I like being involved in the workplace... I know if I'm that girl who never talks I'll just get more crap.

.

 

This. Can't you talk to the other 90%?

[Phoe]

This. Can't you talk to the other 90%?

 

I do! Those are the ones I'm friends with

[Taramere]

I'm not understanding how me not knowing what it is that I do wrong, how me not realizing what is wrong with my behavior, how that is a victim mentality?

 

It's me saying that I 100% know, without a doubt, that I am at fault and I am to blame for what I get, but I am admitting that I am socially inept enough to not know what it is that I'm doing wrong. I know that out of all my behaviors, at least some of them are not well received. I just don't know which behaviors those are, and wish I could know.

 

That's the dilemma, isn't it? You mentioned earlier that you don't ask people what they think of you, because you know you won't like the answer...but on the other hand, there's a big part of you that really wants to know.

 

Perhaps that conflict plays a big part in problems you commonly experience. Wanting to know what people think of you, but being afraid of knowing. Fishing gingerly for feedback and feeling threatened by anything other than very positive "you're a lovely, kind person who doesn't need to change a thing" feedback. Or, conversely being okay with the sort of unnecessarily harsh feedback so insensitive or insulting that it pretty much invalidates itself.

 

It's the criticism that lies between those two extremes that's harder to hear. Not just for you, but for most people. Nobody, putting their inner thoughts and insecurities on a forum for public scrutiny and assessment, is likely to come out of that process looking or feeling as though they have their sh*t together. Nobody who's being endlessly analysed by other people is likely to end up feeling like much more than a zoo animal. So yes, people who start a lot of threads about themselves often don't do too well out of the experience.

 

I read your minimalism thread over on the watercooler, and I had planned to contribute to it, because it's an interesting subject (and not a topic I've seen on here before) but I got distracted by work. I raise the subject of that thread mainly because I think it's the sort of discussion where you can engage in some self exploration in a less personal (and less risky) sort of way; invite contributions from others where they'll be talking about themselves rather than the focus being on you in a way that's destined to leave you feeling targeted and vulnerable.

 

Honestly, I think it would be a very rare and unusual sort of person who could pour out all their insecurities and details of their daily exchanges onto here and not meet with a lot of negativity, adverse assessment of their characters.

[xxoo]

I do! Those are the ones I'm friends with

 

Ok, then why the comments about being the girl who "never" talks at work, and not being involved in work conversation at all?

[Phoe]

Ok, then why the comments about being the girl who "never" talks at work, and not being involved in work conversation at all?

 

I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I always talk with friends at work. Whatever I said to make you think that was likely very badly worded.

 

The only thing I can think of is when I said that perhaps the only way for me to ensure that I don't say things that trigger others, is to not get involved in conversations at all, and to not talk unless addressed.

 

Otherwise, I don't know what you mean, and am sorry that what I said was confusing and unclear.

[Phoe]

That's the dilemma, isn't it? You mentioned earlier that you don't ask people what they think of you, because you know you won't like the answer...but on the other hand, there's a big part of you that really wants to know.

 

Perhaps that conflict plays a big part in problems you commonly experience. Wanting to know what people think of you, but being afraid of knowing. Fishing gingerly for feedback and feeling threatened by anything other than very positive "you're a lovely, kind person who doesn't need to change a thing" feedback. Or, conversely being okay with the sort of unnecessarily harsh feedback so insensitive or insulting that it pretty much invalidates itself.

 

It's the criticism that lies between those two extremes that's harder to hear. Not just for you, but for most people. Nobody, putting their inner thoughts and insecurities on a forum for public scrutiny and assessment, is likely to come out of that process looking or feeling as though they have their sh*t together. Nobody who's being endlessly analysed by other people is likely to end up feeling like much more than a zoo animal. So yes, people who start a lot of threads about themselves often don't do too well out of the experience.

 

I read your minimalism thread over on the watercooler, and I had planned to contribute to it, because it's an interesting subject (and not a topic I've seen on here before) but I got distracted by work. I raise the subject of that thread mainly because I think it's the sort of discussion where you can engage in some self exploration in a less personal (and less risky) sort of way; invite contributions from others where they'll be talking about themselves rather than the focus being on you in a way that's destined to leave you feeling targeted and vulnerable.

 

Honestly, I think it would be a very rare and unusual sort of person who could pour out all their insecurities and details of their daily exchanges onto here and not meet with a lot of negativity, adverse assessment of their characters.

 

Well, part of that dilemma is the difference between how I am here, and how I am IRL.

 

While many don't believe it, there definitely are differences. I know that.

 

I don't want to know what others think of me IRL, because that's a much more tense and uncomfortable or hurtful thing to deal with when it's in person. So that's why I would never ask others for their opinion of me.

 

But here, I'm much more open. If I'm gonna have harsh things said to me, I'd rather it be from strangers on the internet, than from people I know IRL. If there are parts of my personality that suck, I'd rather ask the uncomfortable question wondering what it is that people dont like, here, rather than IRL.

 

I never realized how bad my attempted interactions looked. I looked at my attempts to engage in conversations as a friendly and positive thing. It wasn't until it was pointed out to me that I butted in, that I realized it was rude and unwanted.

 

None of that was me fishing for some kind of opinion. It was me simply trying to be friendly with others.

 

I suppose the only way I really know how to engage with others, is to find a topic of common interest, and run with it. Softball. Fitness. Those are topics of interest, so I use those as a way to join the conversation and chat.

 

When it comes to topics that I know nothing about or have no experience with, it's often hard to chat about it with others, and I struggled with things to say unless I'm asking questions, which sometimes is unwelcome as well!

 

So while it seems as though I'm just saying "me me me, all about me" - it's me simply utilizing the only way I know of, to participate in conversations with others. I often don't feel comfortable asking questions. I feel like I'm prying.... so I limit that.

[William]

Folks, let's get back to focusing on the demeaning comments in the real world and how to resolve that issue and leave forum dating opportunities and posting behaviors and other tangential or clearly off-topic points to the realm of private messages or phone conversations or smoke signals or something other than discussing it on the open forum.

 

The thread is about some guys commenting on a butt at work in an apparently inappropriate manner and how to resolve that. Thanks for your attention and consideration in making LoveShack a friendly and welcoming place to discuss interpersonal relationships in a collaborative fashion.

[xxoo]

I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I always talk with friends at work. Whatever I said to make you think that was likely very badly worded.

 

The only thing I can think of is when I said that perhaps the only way for me to ensure that I don't say things that trigger others, is to not get involved in conversations at all, and to not talk unless addressed.

 

Otherwise, I don't know what you mean, and am sorry that what I said was confusing and unclear.

 

I quoted it above, but here it is:

 

."

 

But perhaps I just shouldn't really try to be involved in conversations at work at all. I like being involved in the workplace... I know if I'm that girl who never talks I'll just get more crap.

 

.

 

That's really confusing if you are friends with most of your coworkers.

 

Do ypu swing between these extremes in your mind?

[tuxedo cat]

Of course I'm not asking. In one instance I was simply walking by and someone was singing a song about butt's, and another coworker was like "Umm?? I hope you're not talking about Phoe" and he was like "oh, no, of course not phoe's butt." and I sort of raised my eyebrows in a way that indicated I didn't like where this was going, and he's like "but i mean... i'm not trying to saying anything bad about yours.." and he starts trying to backtrack and realized he shoved his foot in his mouth.

 

In another instance a few guys were talking about a girl who works there who has a big butt and wondering how she got it... they started talking about squats, genetics, etc, and one of them says "well, she played a lot of softball". And I, having played softball, instantly thought it was cool that a fellow coworker played softball and I never knew, so I piped in "I didn't know Mandy played softball, I played too!" and instantly one quipped "apparently not enough." and nods his head toward my hip region, and I instantly know he means my butt...

 

so I just sorta backed away and removed myself from earshot of the conversation...

 

Another time I was talking about working out at the gym, and Mandy walked by, and a guy commented about her ass (again) and I just didn't really respond to it and sorta nodded my head and kept working, and he started talking about his gym routine, and all the squats he does, and I mentioned that squats and leg day in general are favorite, and I was told that I don't have good muscle building genetics in my lower body.

 

Another time a few were talking about a girl and mentioned her weight and that she needs to lose weight, which happens to be the same weight as mine, and that struck me as odd because I'm not overweight, and I was like "But that's the same weight as me", and he says "Yeah, you guys weigh the same, but all her weight is in her ass, unlike you. And you know I LOVE those big butts!"

 

another instance where I just didn't really respond and decided to just brush it off.

 

In high school it was way worse. I got called pancake ass, mediocre ass, told I couldn't fill out my pants, told I might be hot if it weren't for my ass, etc.

 

 

 

 

I felt the need to describe it to defend myself from the potential folks here who might just say "well, maybe your butt does suck and you need to do squats"

 

Because it's not amazing, and I'm not exactly happy with mine, but it's not this horrendous thing that people make it out to be. And I'm tired of being made to feel bad about it.

 

So I wanted to defend myself. If even only to bolster myself.

 

 

 

I am simultaneously upset that anyone thought it was ok to even talk that way to me at all, as well as feeling down because of people making remarks about a body part that I am sensitive about anyway.

 

 

 

No. I have been sexually harassed there before, and really would prefer if nobody talked to me about my butt at all. Let alone making remarks about something that is already sensitive to me.

 

I don't get why when this happens, it's assumed I'm at fault, it's assumed I asked them for an opinion (wtf??), it's assumed I deserved it.

 

I literally did nothing to bring these on.

 

They keep commenting on your butt because they're pigs AND because you've made it clear to them that you're insecure by repeatedly bringing yourself into their butt-related conversations.

 

Also, these idiots have likely talked about your body and the body of every single woman there in private and arrived at some consensus or position about your butt. That might just mean one dominant guy in the group thought your butt was too small for his taste and the others agreed with him out of social pressure. That's partly why they keep bringing it up, I think, because it's become the party line that your butt is too small in their sick little boy's club.

 

I think you need to change jobs.

[Phoe]

I quoted it above, but here it is:

 

 

 

That's really confusing if you are friends with most of your coworkers.

 

Do ypu swing between these extremes in your mind?

 

I mentioned earlier that after everything that happened yesterday both at work and here, that I started to feel really bad about myself and felt that I was just unlikeable, and started to wonder if maybe alot of my coworkers are only friendly with me out of politeness.

 

And since I clearly am bad at talking properly, and socializing properly, or even getting a point across in a clear way, I wondered if perhaps the best way to prevent that, is to avoid talking unless I'm specifically addressed. Since folks here pointed out that I have a problem with butting in, I figured the only way to prevent that is to not try to engage in conversation at all, unless addressed.

 

That wasn't me trying to say I will never talk to anyone ever again and have no friends at all and everyone at work hates me, not even remotely!

[CrystalCastles]

I figured the only way to prevent that is to not try to engage in conversation at all, unless addressed.

 

I don't think people meant that. Or at least I didn't. There's nothing wrong with addressing your friends or people you know are nice. People are suggesting on here to stay away from the trolls at your work. Don't talk to them, don't interact with them in any way. There are 90 more people at work you can talk to. It really doesn't have to be such an extreme.

[Phoe]

They keep commenting on your butt because they're pigs AND because you've made it clear to them that you're insecure by repeatedly bringing yourself into their butt-related conversations.

 

Also, these idiots have likely talked about your body and the body of every single woman there in private and arrived at some consensus or position about your butt. That might just mean one dominant guy in the group thought your butt was too small for his taste and the others agreed with him out of social pressure. That's partly why they keep bringing it up, I think, because it's become the party line that your butt is too small in their sick little boy's club.

 

I think you need to change jobs.

 

Oh yeah, they often talk about the other women. I am always nearby since I happen to work in the department that is mostly men. I typically stay out of those conversations and just listen silently. Sometimes I'll get asked my opinion or a "Right Phoe??" and I'll just say "I don't know."... sometimes they are gushing about a girl. Other times they might be bashing one.

 

I stay out of it most of the time. Sure, sometimes I feel compelled to stick up for a girl that's getting bashed. Or other times a topic that interests me comes up in that convo, and it piques my interest and I'm like "oh, hey, softball, cool!"

 

But I was just stunned when mean comments started coming at me.

[Phoe]

I don't think people meant that. Or at least I didn't. There's nothing wrong with addressing your friends or people you know are nice. People are suggesting on here to stay away from the trolls at your work. Don't talk to them, don't interact with them in any way. There are 90 more people at work you can talk to. It really doesn't have to be such an extreme.

 

well, truthfully, 2 of the comments came from men who had never before had a history of talking to me like that. So I was surprised, but now I've got my guard up a bit with them.

 

1 of them does have a history of being regularly dickish, but I have to work with him very closely on the job, and it's a much better work day if I can interact with him pleasantly and amicably than to put up a HUGE wall and have this tense air around us for the next 8 hours. That's a long 8 hours.

[tuxedo cat]

Phoe, I don't think you're particularly mean, arrogant, self-obsessed or vain, not compared to most people. Besides none of these traits really turn people off universally. But there is one trait that does, which you have in abundance: insecurity. Your problem begins and ends with insecurity. People will feast on you if they get a whiff. Look at the pile on dynamic in this thread. It's unfortunate but most people can't help but pounce on somebody they perceive as weak, and the more you defend yourself, the weaker you look and the more aggressive people will get.

[Phoe]

Phoe, I don't think you're particularly mean, arrogant, self-obsessed or vain, not compared to most people. Besides none of these traits really turn people off universally. But there is one trait that universally turns people off, which you have in abundance: insecurity. Your problem begins and ends with insecurity. People will feast on you if they get a whiff. Look at the pile on dynamic in this thread. It's unfortunate but most people can't help but pounce on somebody they perceive as weak, and the more you defend yourself, the weaker you look and the more aggressive people will get.

 

Really???

 

That shocks me.

 

I always thought by defending myself and standing up for myself, I was showing strength.

 

When I defend myself, I refuse to just slink away silently with my tail between my legs, I refuse to be a doormat.

 

I always felt that I was being strong, and that maybe people would respect that.

[Nikki Sahagin]

No-one should talk about your body at work; completely unprofessional. Report it.

[ThaWholigan]

Really???

 

That shocks me.

 

I always thought by defending myself and standing up for myself, I was showing strength.

 

When I defend myself, I refuse to just slink away silently with my tail between my legs, I refuse to be a doormat.

 

I always felt that I was being strong, and that maybe people would respect that.

I believe they call it "picking your battles". I think for you, you've become so used to opposition that you naturally become defensive. Possibly, as a failsafe against this defensive side of you, you probably are a little excessive in your efforts to be accommodating. It can create a very awkward paradigm that allows people to erode your boundaries.

 

One thing you will possibly have to learn is to distinguish between meanness and constructive criticism. It's a toughie - it took me a while to get good at this. I was sensitive and defensive too - which is one of the reasons why I've learned to be more comforting in my advice giving (whenever I can anyway). In cases like your OP, a short and swift rebuttal should suffice and possibly a trip to HR if there are any continuations after such.

 

It's all about finding balance - balance between yielding and pushing. Knowing when to stand up for yourself and erect boundaries, and when to yield and chill. Boundaries for me seem to be the key. You need to focus on them, and you'll have an understanding of how social dynamics effect you. Boundaries will also aid you in becoming more secure in yourself and how you deal with others.

[biplane]

its a tough one. my best advice is ignore or laugh it off but if it's serious go to hr. it's a fine line and depends on how receptive hr is to you

[Anela]

One thing you need to do, is believe the positive things that people say about you. I know where you're coming from with your insecurities/point of view there, but it gets old for the people who are genuinely complimenting you, if you shrug it off and don't believe them.

 

This might sound really dumb, but I'm watching an episode of the Gilmore Girls, and the daughter, Rori, dealt with attempted bullying here and there, in the first few seasons. Try watching the first season, if you can, and see how she handles herself - she has confidence in herself, she knows who she is, and they don't get to her in the long run.

I remember my sister trying to hurt me, and she managed it a lot of the time, because it was *her* and I loved her. There were times when I would think, "Wait a minute, that's not true!" I would calmly stand my ground, and ask her why she felt the need to say those things, because she knew they weren't true.

 

It would also help if you did have someone that you felt you could confide in. That lovely friend you mentioned? Try opening up just a little bit. If she works with you, then her presence might keep people from being mean, or you might relax enough that they back off.

[Haydn]

Were these comments to your face or behind your back? If behind your back then usually people who have very little in there lives. If to your face then take a stand. Report them. Nothing to do with your bum or how you perceive it, just rude and inappropriate comments from boorish types. Same would apply to any comment deemed rude in the workplace.

[gaius]

Maybe they're angry at you on some level because you never stroke their egos, just mostly stay professional and ignore them. Most of the time you do respond it's about you and what you like rather than playing up to them in anyway. Both men and women can get resentful of that sometimes I think.

 

Plus generally the best way to defend yourself is to attack them back, rather than trying to argue the mean point they brought up. Ie "My butt looks bad? Well, your butt looks like about 50 pounds of chewed bubblegum" rather than "No, my butt looks fine, I do plenty of squats." Since it's work though it might be wiser to just learn to play up to them occasionally instead.