Am I wrong? Female/male friendship

[writergal]

The point is the guy should NEVER get aggressive!!! WTF?!?

 

She told him no. For all she knew, he could have taken it on board.

 

I mean... I have a friend who I know is into me and if I gave him the green light, he'd dump his gf and be with me. But that will never ever happen. He is aware of this. I value his friendship (though he isn't my best friend, nor do I spend too much time with him, to avoid confusing him as to what my intentions are).

 

He has never been aggressive nor do I expect him to be. Why would I cut him off just because he has a misguided attraction to me?

 

This is ALL on the guy. If he had behaved like a normal human being, she wouldn't have had to cut him off.

 

No, it's not though ASG. It's both their faults.The saying goes, "it takes two to tango." So far, everyone is quick to blame the guy but not the OP. Well, the OP is responsible for befriending this guy in the first place, whom she claims is her "best friend." I have already asked her to explain what about him makes him her best friend. She has yet to answer that question, which would provide my context to his behavior.

 

How can that detail from the OP's post be overlooked so carelessly? Why, in fact, is that being overlooked? Knowing why she considers this guy her best friend would explain a lot.

 

The OP thinks he's her best friend, despite his problem with boundaries and his persistent borderline stalking. That doesn't seem kosher to me. There is more to the story than the OP lets on, I believe.

[jen1447]

It's hardly irrelevant. Anyone who considers a guy like that her 'best friend' has some serious boundary issues herself, or is really bad at choosing her friends.

 

It's entirely irrelevant, because no amount of past encouragement entitles a current "no" response to be handled as anything but, regardless of what her personal issues are.

[writergal]

It's entirely irrelevant, because no amount of past encouragement entitles a current "no" response to be handled as anything but, regardless of what her personal issues are.

 

It is relevant. If she has poor boundaries, that would explain his delusional thinking as to why he is her "best friend." Somehow she encouraged him. Somehow she gave him the green light to continue communication with her, because according to the OP, he is her best friend.

 

You can't really ignore that part of the OP's post. Can you? No one describes their best friend like that. No one says, "oh he's my best friend but he stalks me." Sorry, I call b.s. on that.

[somedude81]

I seriously don't understand why a woman would continue to be friends with a guy she has rejected.

 

If I had a female friend that told me that she loves me and I have no interest at all in dating her, I would end the friendship. It's the only logical thing to do.

[writergal]

I seriously don't understand why a woman would continue to be friends with a guy she has rejected.

 

If I had a female friend that told me that she loves me and I have no interest at all in dating her, I would end the friendship. It's the only logical thing to do.

 

Logic, which apparently seems absent from this thread. No offense to everyone, but seriously...how can you overlook such a detail as the OP calling this guy her best friend, that makes no rational sense whatsoever.

 

Like Somedude81 pointed out, if someone of the opposite sex becomes sexually aggressive to you, you cut off all contact immediately with that person. The OP didn't do that, or hasn't eluded to having done that. All the OP has shared is that he continues to come on strong despite her protests. Yet she takes no responsibility for leading him on, which I believe she has done, in this case.

 

I'll say it again. No one in their right mind would befriend someone of the opposite sex who made it clear to them they had the hots for them and wasn't going to stop until they got their way. You'd put the kibosh on that social connection immediately. The OP didn't. So I don't think she's telling her the whole story here.

[jen1447]

It's pretty clear he's no longer her best friend.

 

So, I have this best friend....

 

....I couldn't listen to that either, so I ended my friendship.

 

Am I wrong for ignoring him and ending the friendship?

 

If we all had to wear any past encouragement of someone in the present, after we discover that they're a little nuts, we'd all be in pretty big trouble. You can say yes a thousand days in a row, but the day you say no, they have to respect that. You can argue all you want that she led him on in the past, and maybe she did, but that doesn't change the fact that today, he's completely obligated to respect her wishes and leave her alone. That's pretty much what living in a civil society is all about.

[writergal]

It's pretty clear he's no longer her best friend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we all had to wear any past encouragement of someone in the present, after we discover that they're a little nuts, we'd all be in pretty big trouble. You can say yes a thousand days in a row, but the day you say no, they have to respect that. You can argue all you want that she led him on in the past, and maybe she did, but that doesn't change the fact that today, he's completely obligated to respect her wishes and leave her alone. That's pretty much what living in a civil society is all about.

 

Doesn't matter. She knew that he was like this from day one of their friendship. She knew. Yet she let this behavior continue until she ended the friendship. She never should have become friends with him in the first place. So, that shows a serious lack of common sense on the OP's part. I really want to know why he was her best friend, when she allowed him to continuously sexually harass her throughout their friendship, while she dated her boyfriend. None of this story adds up. None of it makes any sense. Girl has boyfriend. Girl's best guy friend sexually harasses her during their friendship, so she ends the friendship, and he keeps sexually harassing her. Can you see how ridiculous that sounds? That's what the OP is claiming to be the situation here.

 

Again, no one would EVER befriend someone who sexually harasses them from day one. The guy who sexually harassed me online, that I posted about here, was never my friend to start with, and never will be. So, that's why I find it very hard to believe that a woman like the OP would ever be friends with a guy like that.

[writergal]

To add to my post, what about the boyfriend during the OP's friendship with Mr. Sexually Harrasser Guy? I notice the OP didn't mention anything about how her boyfriend handled this supposed best friend who relentlessly hit on the OP. She only mentions that she broke up with her boyfriend and then decided to end her friendship with her best guy friend. The whole story makes no sense to me, so I'll bow out of this thread.

[jen1447]

Doesn't matter. She knew that he was like this from day one of their friendship. She knew.

She knew that he was into her, and she turned him down. She didn't know he was an obsessive stalker until he started acting like one when she rejected him most recently.

 

when she allowed him to continuously sexually harass her throughout their friendship,

Where does she say he continually sexually harassed her throughout their friendship?

 

None of it makes any sense. Girl has boyfriend. Girl's best guy friend sexually harasses her during their friendship, so she ends the friendship, and he keeps sexually harassing her. Can you see how ridiculous that sounds? That's what the OP is claiming to be the situation here.

I don't think that's at all accurate. She said nothing about sexual harassment during their friendship, only that he told her he was in love with her. He only started acting crazy "recently" when she broke up with her BF and he moved in on her again, according to what she actually said.

[ASG]

I seriously don't understand why a woman would continue to be friends with a guy she has rejected.

 

If I had a female friend that told me that she loves me and I have no interest at all in dating her, I would end the friendship. It's the only logical thing to do.

 

Because not every guy is a psychopath and some can actually take no for an answer and still remain friends.

Why would I need to end our relationship? If he wanted to distance himself, I'd understand. But I wouldn't cut him out just because he was into me (and hadn't done anything untoward)

 

When I was in school, a friend of mine was like that. if ANY guy expressed that he was interested in her and she wasn't, she would immediately cut them off. As in not even LOOK at them, much less speak to them. I found that cruel and unnecessary.

 

She knew that he was into her, and she turned him down. She didn't know he was an obsessive stalker until he started acting like one when she rejected him most recently.

 

 

Where does she say he continually sexually harassed her throughout their friendship?

 

 

I don't think that's at all accurate. She said nothing about sexual harassment during their friendship, only that he told her he was in love with her. He only started acting crazy "recently" when she broke up with her BF and he moved in on her again, according to what she actually said.

 

Exactly. Nothing in the OPs post makes me think this guy harassed her during the entire friendship. He made his feelings known and she said she wasn't interested.

 

From the OP the info we have is that once the OP and her BF broke up, the guy saw this as his chance. A RIGHT he'd been denied. And then he started harassing her. And it led her to end the friendship.

[preraph]

Originally Posted by somedude81 View Post

I seriously don't understand why a woman would continue to be friends with a guy she has rejected.

 

It's not always that cut and dried. When this happened to me, I already knew the guy through friends and dated one of his friends. It wasn't until some time after that breakup that he finally let me know he was trying to hit on me. So some years of friendship, though nothing real close, just friendly acquaintance I saw and hung out with some with other people, knew him 3 or more years before it all came about. We are in the same circle of friends, not like I simply won't ever see him again. Just saw him at a funeral Saturday 30+ years after all this went down. Was friendly with him. He's now married and now it's not an issue anymore, but yes, at the time, I felt like he had been sneaky and I knew him well enough to know he was being sneaky with other women he crushed on too, never being up front with them, always circling around trying to find out what they were doing.

 

It's just not always, He hit on me, I said no, He wants to still be friends, I said yes, He doesn't just want to be friends. Sometimes there's an actual relationship there and ties and connections.

[PumpkinLumpkin]

Doesn't matter. She knew that he was like this from day one of their friendship. She knew. Yet she let this behavior continue until she ended the friendship. She never should have become friends with him in the first place. So, that shows a serious lack of common sense on the OP's part. I really want to know why he was her best friend, when she allowed him to continuously sexually harass her throughout their friendship, while she dated her boyfriend. None of this story adds up. None of it makes any sense. Girl has boyfriend. Girl's best guy friend sexually harasses her during their friendship, so she ends the friendship, and he keeps sexually harassing her. Can you see how ridiculous that sounds? That's what the OP is claiming to be the situation here.

 

Again, no one would EVER befriend someone who sexually harasses them from day one. The guy who sexually harassed me online, that I posted about here, was never my friend to start with, and never will be. So, that's why I find it very hard to believe that a woman like the OP would ever be friends with a guy like that.

 

Sounds to me like OP loves attention and that's why she kept this "best friend" around, thus the poor boundaries.

 

Why would you become best friends with someone who has a romantic interest in you when you've already got a boyfriend? That's disrespectful to the boyfriend AND the "best friend" who likes you.

 

Attention seeker, much?

[preraph]

And what's wrong with enjoying a friendship? If a friend confesses they have feelings and you tell them not going to happen and you've been friends and been doing okay and they tell you they can handle it and things seem to be going well, you assume that person is not obsessed and is adult enough to handle a "no," which we've all had to do. Until there's some sign they are not accepting the rejection, then there is no reason to run them off. Not everyone is obsessive and can't let it go. There's certainly some guys out there whose only option is not you who may hit on you and get rejected who then shake it off because they were not obsessed with you. It's the obsessed ones who center their life around you that you have to cut off completely.

 

The unobsessed ones won't keep trying to hit on you between boyfriends and will be pursuing other women. If it's clear someone is obsessed, then I agree you have to cut them off wholeheartedly, but sometimes you can't tell that right away until they make another attempt or you find out they are fixated only on you.

 

There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to have a friend around. Not all guys are immature and obsessed and incapable of being just friends. While most guys may wonder what it would be like, many don't automatically try to find out if they realize it's not a good love match and will just be friends.

[writergal]

I agree with 100% of what you're saying preraph. I just think the OP used bad judgment in her own case, since she knew right off the bat that her so-called "best friend" was romantically interested in her, despite the fact that she was already in a relationship with her boyfriend and told this guy that she wasn't interested.

 

If I was in a relationship and met a single guy who came on strong repeatedly after I rebuffed him, I certainly wouldn't continue the friendship or consider that type of guy a "best friend" like the OP did, before she claims she ended the friendship.

 

It should never have got to the point it did with his obsessing over her. The only reason it did escalate to the level it's at now, is because she kept him on as a friend.

 

Now, I agree with everyone that this guy has gone overboard with his obsession and that the OP was wise to end her friendship with him.

 

But, I still find it very hard to believe she would categorize this guy as her "best friend" when she had a boyfriend at the time that she met him based on his behavior throughout her friendship with him. How did that impact the OP's relationship with her boyfriend? Wasn't he irritated by her so-called best friend constantly hitting on his girlfriend? If anything, her boyfriend should be her best friend. Not a horny single guy who constantly hits on her. That's the part of the OP's post that I can't get my head around. I would never be best friends with, let alone friends with a guy like that, even if I wasn't in a relationship.

Edited March 25, 2015 by writergal

[stillafool]

OP, why don't you answer why this guy was ever your best friend?

[writergal]

OP, why don't you answer why this guy was ever your best friend?

 

Probably because there's a lot more to the story. Otherwise, it makes zero sense.

[littlesister1234]

Yeah she finally did something. And looking at her post she waited too long to do it. If she had cut him off much sooner it would have never gotten this bad.

 

Not everybody is able to walk away after they are rejected. That's just a fact of life. So when one sees that the person they rejected didn't accept their answer, that person has to do the hard thing and end the friendship.

 

Why even let things progress to the point where the guy gets aggressive?

 

I'm betting that several months had passed between the first time littlesister1234 rejected the guy and when she made this thread.

 

Now looking back, I do agree with this. I did let the friendship go on too long and should have ended it way sooner. I guess I didn't realize it at the time, and you're right, I am partly to blame for letting it go on too long. It's just when I did tell him I wasn't interested, I was dumb enough to believe him every time he told me, that the hope of being together wasn't there anymore. He said it was a misunderstanding on his part and I should have been smart enough to realize this apparently wasn't true.

[littlesister1234]

OP, why don't you answer why this guy was ever your best friend?

 

I guess best friend is in the eye of what people think a best friend is. We had lots of good laughs together. He was one of the first friends I made when I moved here and he did introduce me to a lot of people. He was also very helpful to me, such as when I needed a ride to work he would take me (sometimes my boyfriend couldn't always help me). I consider best friends people I can share a good laugh with, accept others for who they are, and are there in tough times. This stalkerish behavior didn't start until recently. However the pushiness was always there. I honestly thought I had the situation under control. Apparently not.

[littlesister1234]

Could be it was a cuddle bitch scenario, but ultimately it's irrelevant. Even if she did send him mixed messages, her clear messages at the end were enough for him to be compelled to stop.

 

That's actually what concerns me. Most guys who come off this way do get the message eventually, hard as it is to accept, but he sounds a little crazy with the implied death warnings and all that.

 

About mixed messages, in the beginning, I did let him hug me like friends do, but after the rejection thing, I made very sure I did not hug him or let him touch me, cause it made me very uncomfortable. Another red flag I now realize in hindsight.

[somedude81]

Now looking back, I do agree with this. I did let the friendship go on too long and should have ended it way sooner. I guess I didn't realize it at the time, and you're right, I am partly to blame for letting it go on too long. It's just when I did tell him I wasn't interested, I was dumb enough to believe him every time he told me, that the hope of being together wasn't there anymore. He said it was a misunderstanding on his part and I should have been smart enough to realize this apparently wasn't true.

 

He was definitely trying to mislead you and get you to lower your guard.

 

In those situations you really have to trust your gut. Looking at your posts I believe that deep down you knew he was still interested in you.

 

Yes you lit it go for a little too long, but you did finally end it. Don't feel bad at all about cutting him off. Just remove him from your life as much as you can.

 

My hope for my posts is that other women reading this thread who find themselves in similar situations now or end the future will end things with their friends sooner than later, before things start to get ugly.

[preraph]

Women can't be expected to just know when they're being deceived and lied to like this. If she'd have cut him off the first whiff, I can just imagine her friends might have been saying she was being overly mean and that after all, all he did was like her too much. So it's really a lose/lose situation no matter what she did. She gave him the benefit of the doubt. She had something to lose to, you know, what she considered a friendship.

[SerCay]

Hidden agenda? It seems like he told her a while ago that he was interested. No secret there.

 

Once a guy friend starts to show interest and the woman doesn't reciprocate, the best thing she can do is cut him out of her life right away. littlesister1234 simply waited too long.

 

I disagree with this on so many levels.

 

He showed interest, she rejected and clearly stated that they would only be friends. Friendship forever, romance never gonna happen. She was open and clear. She wanted the friendship, he stayed. As a friend. But then when his feelings showed up again, instead of accepting her feelings (non-existent towards him) and leaving, he tried to manipulate and push her into romantic feelings. I'm sorry but HE is the one that had to man up and cut himself out of her life.

[SerCay]

On the other hand OP, I don't understand why you kept this guy going on for so long. Everyone loves attention but there's a point when it's enough. You cannot keep accepting the attention and then expect the guy to keep swallowing his feelings. When you accept the ongoing attempts, you give him HOPE. That's how it works.

 

Honestly I've let go of all of my male friends, except for the one that's gay. There is 1 who used to be my best friend until he tried to kiss me when I broke up with my ex after I had told him a zillion times that it would never happen between us. I put a distance between us from that moment on and I never meet up with him at the house any more. Of course our friendship isn't as deep as it used to be, but it's better than leading him on and being harrassed all the time. My other male best friend moved out of the country, he was the only guy I've ever met that NEVER tried anything and was genuinely able to be a very fun and close friend without developing sexual or romantic desires towards me.

 

I know a lot of you will disagree, and maybe it has to do with the age but I don't believe in it anymore. I don't believe that men and women outside of work or school situations can be close friends. There's always more involved.

[littlesister1234]

On the other hand OP, I don't understand why you kept this guy going on for so long. Everyone loves attention but there's a point when it's enough. You cannot keep accepting the attention and then expect the guy to keep swallowing his feelings. When you accept the ongoing attempts, you give him HOPE. That's how it works.

 

Honestly I've let go of all of my male friends, except for the one that's gay. There is 1 who used to be my best friend until he tried to kiss me when I broke up with my ex after I had told him a zillion times that it would never happen between us. I put a distance between us from that moment on and I never meet up with him at the house any more. Of course our friendship isn't as deep as it used to be, but it's better than leading him on and being harrassed all the time. My other male best friend moved out of the country, he was the only guy I've ever met that NEVER tried anything and was genuinely able to be a very fun and close friend without developing sexual or romantic desires towards me.

 

I know a lot of you will disagree, and maybe it has to do with the age but I don't believe in it anymore. I don't believe that men and women outside of work or school situations can be close friends. There's always more involved.

 

I absolutely agree. I did get tired of the constant attention, esp. when I was with my boyfriend or just wanted to sleep or was busy with something else. I did tell him several times that the constant attention was too much, and did ask for my space (which included A LOT of times canceling or rejecting his offers of meeting for coffee or hanging out with him), which he did respect for a while. I also got sick of people talking about him to me when I was just out and about (I would run into his friends on the bus.) I'm 27 and for the majority of my life, I have had maybe 1 or two platonic male friends. Pretty much all of my friends have been female, so I can't say I have much experience in opposite sex friends. I haven't heard from him or his friends today, thank god, so I'm hoping this crazy behavior is slowing down if not coming to an end. In the future, I will be more mindful of men I choose to have as friends, if I decide to have any at all. I have heard many times that men should stick with men and women with women. I don't know if this is true, but I do think that this is my best option.

[jen1447]

I think there's plenty of blame to go around in the big picture.

 

Very commonly, women keep these sorts of guys around, often referred to with disdain by others as "cuddle bitches," because it's nice to have someone to talk to that isn't always trying to get into your pants. The problem is, very often they actually do want to get into your pants, but they tend not to be 'aplhas' so their approach is to bide their time and do character assassination on the actual BFs during the many heart-to-hearters and head-on-your-shoulder sessions where they provide the comfort that the bad boy BF doesn't. It's wrong for women to not see these guys for what they are and lead them on in that fashion. (Some don't know what's really going on - duh, but many do and even exploit these guys on purpose.)

 

On the other hand, it's wrong for these guys to hang around under false pretenses. Self respect alone should keep you away from such a suffocating and defeating quasi-realtionship, but the nature of these people is to hang around the fringes and wait for the scraps, and they knowingly use the guise of 'friendship' to keep their place and hope that one day they'll get their shot and that she'll "see reason" and realize how sucky all the guys she sleeps with are and how great her 'true friend' is, never realizing that she has no actual respect for him because he's portrayed his sexuality to be that of a neutered puppy by lacking the balls to walk away from her and always sacrificing himself for her.

 

The two together are a combination that basically never results in a truly healthy, mutually-beneficial relationship. The guys get used for the friendship services they provide, and the girls get used as unwilling targets of unrequited love.