Cheating means that you don't love your partner the way you're supposed to?

March 12, 2015

My point is, it shouldn't matter what type of people attempt to penetrate the marraige. It's the ongoing work of each partner in a marriage to individually retain the integrity of their commitment to their partner by putting up a strong mental and physical barrier to keep all others out.
Lion Heart.

LH I completely understand that. I think what you(and others) seem to be missing about the predator point is I fully hold my wife responsible and I agree 100% that he COULD have been an upstanding guy. The facts are however in THIS case was that he was a criminal with many traits of a psychopath that stalked a happily married women. Had he not started the ball rolling and been aggressive it never would have happened IN THIS CASE. Arguing if she would have cheated anyway is just pure speculation.

Since the mods closed the psychopath thread I'll leave it at that and probably will refrain from responding to keep things on topic for this thread.

March 12, 2015

It isnt always a lack of love. I suppose it is hard to understand but you can love your BS completely and still have made bad choices.

But is the love right? My love tells me "Don't cheat". Your love (and my WW's) tells you "It's ok if he does not find out".

March 12, 2015

It isnt always a lack of love. I suppose it is hard to understand but you can love your BS completely and still have made bad choices.

I disagree. One can feel some kind of love for their BS, but at the time they are cheating I do NOT think they love their BS "completely."

March 12, 2015

But is the love right? My love tells me "Don't cheat". Your love (and my WW's) tells you "It's ok if he does not find out".

Is it your love that tells you that or is it your morals? Because if "love" is all that stops one from cheating then if that love dies... What then? I believe many people who never cheat no matter how ugly their relationship gets do so because their morals and standards prevent them from doing so. Love is not why they are faithful. Who they are and the choices they make are why they are faithful.

March 12, 2015

Is it your love that tells you that or is it your morals? Because if "love" is all that stops one from cheating then if that love dies... What then? I believe many people who never cheat no matter how ugly their relationship gets do so because their morals and standards prevent them from doing so. Love is not why they are faithful. Who they are and the choices they make are why they are faithful.

Very good point. Maybe it's not love at all but morals, character, loyalty.

March 12, 2015

Is it your love that tells you that or is it your morals? Because if "love" is all that stops one from cheating then if that love dies... What then? I believe many people who never cheat no matter how ugly their relationship gets do so because their morals and standards prevent them from doing so. Love is not why they are faithful. Who they are and the choices they make are why they are faithful.

Very good point. Maybe it's not love at all but morals, character, loyalty.

Yes, finally.. So many get confused as to define love and then avoid the issue by saying "their kind of love" or "their version of love"... these are escapes from holding one accountable and the creation of double standards and frankly marginalizing love to the point that it no longer means anything.

Love does not prevent one from cheating, one can love simultaneously with another, but "love" is not what we are talking about when it comes to infidelity. Waywards will argue "feelings", "it felt real" and so on.. but that again bastardizes what love is. Whether one feels is not in question, we can feel all kinds of things, especially lust during an affair and mistake our feelings for something else. Again "love" is used incorrectly to help justify to oneself that they are "not a bad person" oh "woe is me" the eternal run from that label is the most entertaining thing to watch in the outcome of infidelity in all of the dark crap it brings. When in fact, facing those demons and owning it to make oneself better is the true escaping of "that label."

I digress, what i am getting at is that both BS and WS are using love incorrectly when in fact love is not by itself enough for one to marry nor is it enough to stop one from cheating. Especially in the example form a wayward that refuses to tell their spouse, they will never know what love is because it is also inside of us, part of our foundation. Thus being dishonest with ones marriage is also being dishonest with oneself even before being dishonest to the betrayed spouse.

In the end, we should not relate "love" to infidelity, it is the same mistake one does when blaming marriage problems or anything other than the wayward to rationalize infidelity. What a catastrophic error in doing so. When we say "they loved the AP" and in the same breath say "they cannot love me for what they did" one either directly or indirectly connects infidelity to love.

Just as we love, our capacity to do so comes from within, so does the process to cheat, that is the only common ground, they both come from within and are owned by the individual.

Edited March 12, 2015 by atreides

March 13, 2015

Mrs J. A.

Drinking, was up to them. For myself it was 2 rum and cokes over a 4 hours of dancing. One had to drive home and the cops were waiting.

As for drugs, long before they made laws, the management banned smoking in the disco. Smoking was done out the back door in the parking lot.

Drugs would get you banned for life from the hottest disco in a city of over a million. There were always long lines for the non-regulars.

The only drugs were the natural euphoria of a runners high, from 4 hours of hard dancing and shaking your booty to a sexy beat.

As for having a high opinion of myself. You would be surprised at the number of BJ's that were offered in the parking lot while out for a smoke. Just reporting the facts.

One just had to pay attention to the details. Such as what do you do with her girl friend. Women rarely came by their selves. Avoid sisters.

Edited March 13, 2015 by 2.50 a gallon
Additional sentences

March 13, 2015

Honestly, as a woman, part of the reason I reject the idea that a man can lure a woman with such wiles that she is powerless to resist is because it is insulting. Poor little empty headed me got my basket taken by the big bad wolf? Um....no. If I was sober enough to think, it was a choice. If I was NOT sober enough to think?

That is called rape.

Sometimes we think we don't have a choice when we do. I have a choice right now to stay in a job that stresses the crap out of me. If I quit before I have anouther one I can't stay in my house, but I DO have a choice.

March 13, 2015

Married women were totally taboo, until the break up of my marriage. As I have previously posted, I stepped over the line, when I turned the tables on my the ExW's co-worker OM's and went after their wives.

As other have expressed catching my Ex cheating hit me hard and I went on the infidelity diet. Some of the women where I worked, who knew my ex and I noticed, used to take turns bringing in lunch which they heated in a crock pot, took pity on me and began sharing their lunch with me. Which over time, resulted in us becoming very close friends. They began asking me why their husbands did this or that. Example football, I even told them how to watch a football game, so they could share it with their husbands. This was in Silicon Valley and the Bay Area had gone nuts over the success of the 49ers and Joe Montana.

Another thing, women talk, and my ExW being brassy had told them how I was big on oral sex. This they later brought as it was something they had never experienced and wanted to try, but their husband refused. So they confided in me some of their sexual frustrations.

About once a month, sometimes every other Saturday, a number of my co-worker used to get together at a club for some drinking playing pool, video games and dancing.

Then came the night, when two of the husbands who hardly ever showed up, made an appearance. Being as they were not into dancing they sat on the side lines. Me being short and skinny with long hair and a good dancer, one of them made the mistake of letting me over hear his comment about him not being sure whether I was a man or a woman. That P.O. ed me. I simply asked his wife to dance, or on to my playing field and using my past knowledge from the disco, before the night was up, we had our first sexual tryst in my camper.

Knowing her sexual frustration, I used my skills from long before disco days, and dirty danced her into my camper.

Edited March 13, 2015 by 2.50 a gallon

March 13, 2015

Married women were totally taboo, until the break up of my marriage. As I have previously posted, I stepped over the line, when I turned the tables on my the ExW's co-worker OM's and went after their wives.
As other have expressed catching my Ex cheating hit me hard and I went on the infidelity diet. Some of the women where I worked, who knew my ex and I noticed, used to take turns bringing in lunch which they heated in a crock pot, took pity on me and began sharing their lunch with me. Which over time, resulted in us becoming very close friends. They began asking me why their husbands did this or that. Example football, I even told them how to watch a football game, so they could share it with their husbands. This was in Silicon Valley and the Bay Area had gone nuts over the success of the 49ers and Joe Montana.
Another thing, women talk, and my ExW being brassy had told them how I was big on oral sex. This they later brought as it was something they had never experienced and wanted to try, but their husband refused. So they confided in me some of their sexual frustrations.
About once a month, sometimes every other Saturday, a number of my co-worker used to get together at a club for some drinking playing pool, video games and dancing.
Then came the night, when two of the husbands who hardly ever showed up, made an appearance. Being as they were not into dancing they sat on the side lines. Me being short and skinny with long hair and a good dancer, one of them made the mistake of letting me over hear his comment about him not being sure whether I was a man or a woman. That P.O. ed me. I simply asked his wife to dance, or on to my playing field and using my past knowledge from the disco, before the night was up, we had our first sexual tryst in my camper.
Knowing her sexual frustration, I used my skills from long before disco days, and dirty danced her into my camper.

Do you see any of this in yourself?

Psychopaths and their married victims

Psychologists know that some psychopaths are a special breed that thrive on the thrill of chasing women that are on the surface not attainable. This class of psychopathic men get their highs from seducing married women and have little interest in single women. Their ultimate goal is to have sex with another man's wife, especially if that couple appears to be “above” him in some way or if the husband has disrespected him. They have studied their prey and have practiced all of the right moves for years. Like a wolf they can tell which is the weakest and the most vulnerable woman in a herd.

They often will focus their attention on the most attractive women they can find and often the most secure in their marriage. The conquest of the forbidden and taken woman who appears untouchable is much more an allure than available single women no matter their physical attractions. Psychopaths spend years refining their process, and that process starts with identifying the most likely victim.

Just as these psychopaths are a special breed, so too are their victims. A Psychopath can be the very embodiment of a charming and well-heeled gentleman. He may have many positive traits: a natural leader, good-looking, athletic, intellectually curious, financially successful, and wittily self-deprecating. What few people know about him is that he has left behind that trail of emotional destruction, having spent decades abusing vulnerable individuals for his own twisted purposes.

And what was it about these women that made them seem vulnerable? One study found that the psychopathic men were picking up on whole suite of cues, how they spoke, what words they used, how innocent and sweet they appeared to be. And non verbal clues including the length of their stride, how they shifted their weight, and how high they lifted their feet. Taken together, these cues gave the psychopathic men a gauge of how confident their potential victims were. Body language that implies a lack of confidence or a submissive woman are key clues to the successful psychopath.

The women who wound up on the receiving end of a psychopaths attentions were individuals who, in their own description, were not very worldly, experienced and blindly trusting. They were psychologically vulnerable and hence ill-equipped to resist this fellow's predations. They are so traumatized that even speaking about their experiences is extremely painful. But the psychopath continues on his way with no regard for the trail of destruction.

Unfortunately there always going to weaker and more vulnerable members of society -- the lambs on whom the wolves will focus their attention. As much as we hate to admit it, many women fall into the clutches of these psychopaths and destroy their entire lives. In the process they destroy their husbands and their marriages. Yes they were willing participants but their trusting nature and inexperience did not allow them to see the psychopath for what he was: a true predator.

March 13, 2015

Even if your spouse had cheated with Ted Bundy, the question remains does that choice to deceive and be intimate emotionally, sexually or both mean your spouse doesn't love you they way they're supposed to? In that equation, IMO, the only relevant psyche is that of the spouse and, realistically, it's probably something best analyzed by a psychologist, psychiatrist or psychometric team.

March 13, 2015

Even if your spouse had cheated with Ted Bundy, the question remains does that choice to deceive and be intimate emotionally, sexually or both mean your spouse doesn't love you they way they're supposed to? In that equation, IMO, the only relevant psyche is that of the spouse and, realistically, it's probably something best analyzed by a psychologist, psychiatrist or psychometric team.

I truly believe that at the time a spouse is cheating they are not loving their spouse. Love is just a feeling and feelings can change. When my spouse put me in an open M and I had to share him for those 8 months he had an A, he was NOT in love with me nor did he love me. He swears he did but I will never believe that he did at that time. Before his A and since D-Day he has loved me to peaces. Some ppl say that you can love two ppl at the same time but that is not humanly possible for me. I just don't have that kind of double mind or whatever it takes for someone to do that. Cheating is not a loving act, it is quite the opposite of love.

March 16, 2015

VBM

I am not avoiding you, rather the past few days, finding it difficult to post more than a sentence or two.

As to your question. A definite no. It was more like I found myself in the right place at the right time.

The woman was extremely worldly, well educated, a very good and well paying job, mother of two teenagers, one in high school, the other about ready to start high school. She had befriended me at work. She was extremely unhappy in her marriage. Her husband had developed into a king of his castle attitude, being as he made more than her, he should get most of the benefits. He had turned into an avid golfer, so much so that he now put his family second to his golfing desires. Instead of weekends with family time, he spent the whole time on the links. Vacation time, he flew off to some fancy course, including Scotland, leaving his wife and kids behind. She felt he no longer saw her as a lover, her marriage role reduced to that of the kids Nanny.

A divorce was in the future, when ever the kids finished high school. To separate now, would mean having to move out of a higher class neighborhood, away from schools that her kids loved.

As for herself, in order to keep herself busy, was pouring herself into her job, raising her family. She had also developed a passion for raising some small and hard to raise tropical fish. With no schooling in this area, she was keeping a endangered species that others were finding difficult to keep. Even though an amateur, she was well thought of in the fish keeping community. Even going so far as to sending eggs and fry to scientist as far away as Europe. Her husband instead of taking and interest and encouraging her, belittled her efforts as her raising guppys.

Edited March 16, 2015 by 2.50 a gallon

March 16, 2015

To me, I don't care what others say-cheating meant my husband did not love me in the way I deserve or the way I want to be loved- thats what really matters-

Its been a hard topic as my husband felt the need to tell me he never stopped loving me- honestly, I wanted to throat punch him every time he said it- now its a topic we don't really touch as we focus on now and the future-

March 16, 2015

To me, I don't care what others say-cheating meant my husband did not love me in the way I deserve or the way I want to be loved- thats what really matters-

Its been a hard topic as my husband felt the need to tell me he never stopped loving me- honestly, I wanted to throat punch him every time he said it- now its a topic we don't really touch as we focus on now and the future-

I agree. It's like that song "You Were Always On My Mind." Maybe I didn't love you or pay attention to you or treat you right...but you were always on my mind.

Gee, thanks

March 16, 2015

VBM

Some time later I did meet a couple of guys, who were totally into having sex with married women. Have experienced how much of a turn on it was to have sex with another man's wife I understood where they were coming from.

I did not see them as psychopaths. Like myself they had found married women to be an easy source of great sex. And at the same time they reduced the worry of them wanting to develop into a permanent relationship.

In talking to them they had polished their skills into a science. They indeed had developed a script of what steps to follow.

With the first becoming her friend. Unlike with single women, men fear falling into the friend zone, with married women, that is your first goal. How many women claim we are just friends. To them is it true.

From there you try to develop a closer, relationship, more like a confidant, and in that way she will give you hints how to seduce her. You listen for the emotional holes with in their relationship.

At first you do not attack her husband. To do that you are saying she made a bad choice. What you do is wait for her to attack her husband, and still, you wait and try to take his side, try to point out his good points.

The guys were very much in tune with understanding love chemicals and how to use them. All along you are paying her compliments, looking for new ways to compliment her, keep buttering her up.

And be patient and wait for the right moment to attack. By that time, her body is filling her brain with love chemicals, and it is too late.

Edited March 16, 2015 by 2.50 a gallon

March 16, 2015

Gee, thanks

Amen. I was more concerned about what my WS was doing than what she was thinking ...

Mr. Lucky

March 16, 2015

And be patient and wait for the right moment to attack. By that time, her body is filling her brain with love chemicals, and it is too late.

If this is true, why don't all women in unhappy, long-term marriages cheat?

All of them, especially the attractive ones, get hit on by "players" of all skill levels on a regular basis. Why don't they fall under the spell of the "love chemicals"?

Maybe the answer has less to do with the skill of the hunter and more to do with the character of the prey?

Mr. Lucky

March 16, 2015

MiniMariah posted in a different thread:

"cheating means that you don't love your partner the way you're supposed to"

Agree or disagree?

I agree. My wife said she loved me and wanted the marriage. My response to her was along the lines of "yes, I can feel how much you love me, while I'm sitting here imagining the OM's d**k sliding in and out of you"

To me, when someone cheated and they say they still love you, its an insult to my intelligence. If she loved me she wouldn't have cheated.

March 16, 2015

If this is true, why don't all women in unhappy, long-term marriages cheat?

Unknown, as no one can read minds, and not really relevant to the topic, since the topic presumes they are cheating or unfaithful.

All of them, especially the attractive ones, get hit on by "players" of all skill levels on a regular basis. Why don't they fall under the spell of the "love chemicals"?

Unknown. See above.

Maybe the answer has less to do with the skill of the hunter and more to do with the character of the prey?

I think this point deserves further exploration.... How does the difference between someone, on one hand, who professes to not love their spouse when cheating or, on the other hand, professes to love their spouse when cheating, relate to character. How do their expressed feelings show, or not show, differences in character? How do we judge that? Why do we form such judgments?

For example, instead of being honest in MC and stating, 'no, when I made the choice, I didn't love you and don't love you today', how would I have been judged had I fallen on my sword and proclaimed 'oh, baby, you know I love you I just made a stupid and hurtful choice but you're my one and only and there will never be anyone else', IOW the loving and remorseful spouse.

Ha, when I was typing that I got this picture of Jim Belushi's eyes in

while he's groveling to Carrie Fischer and 'explaining' while she has an automatic weapon trained on him. Those cute puppy dog eyes

Anyway, character..... what's the play?

March 16, 2015

A cheater can still love you - but not the way you wanted and expected. Lies, deception, and cheating will certainly hurt your partner if they find out. They expected something different, no doubt.

March 16, 2015

I think this point deserves further exploration.... How does the difference between someone, on one hand, who professes to not love their spouse when cheating or, on the other hand, professes to love their spouse when cheating, relate to character. How do their expressed feelings show, or not show, differences in character? How do we judge that?

I think the answer is simple, we're defined by our actions.

Why do we form such judgments?

Because "those who cannot learn from history are" headed for a heap of future trouble...

Mr. Lucky

March 16, 2015

I think this point deserves further exploration.... How does the difference between someone, on one hand, who professes to not love their spouse when cheating or, on the other hand, professes to love their spouse when cheating, relate to character.

I see no difference in character between the two.

March 17, 2015

you can't seduce someone who doesn't want, on some level, to be seduced.

Seduction does not come with mood music and scene titles. Often one can only tell that a seduction was attempted by looking back several days later.

March 17, 2015

I disagree, there are some very skillful men who are quite capable of seducing, a married woman especially, without her realizing it before it is too late.
Look at how often the OM is a total loser, a live with mommy, fat, balding, unattractive meth head, criminal, etc.

Choice, I hate the word. Sometimes we do not have a choice.

I agree with you in part. Sometimes it just sneaks up and the victim has conflicting emotions, doesn't want to make a scene, and feels that they are more than a little responsible for what happened. That's the condition a good "seducer" wants to create.

And of course it doesn't work on everybody. But it works often enough to keep Love Shack in business.

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