Cheating means that you don't love your partner the way you're supposed to?

March 6, 2015

MiniMariah posted in a different thread:

"cheating means that you don't love your partner the way you're supposed to"

Agree or disagree?

I've talked to my WW at length about this very topic. My love dictates that I could never hurt her by cheating. Is that what is really wrong when someone cheats? That their type of love does not prevent them from having someone else? Because so many WS's seem to profess love for their spouse yet they still cheat.

March 6, 2015

Well yes that is exactly it. We all feel temptations, we all still feel attractions to others. What stops us from acting on that is how much we love the person we are with. Well, also with how much self respect we have with ourselves, and how much overall dignity we have.

This is why I always shake my head when you hear someone spewing excuses about how they cheated because the relationship was in a bad place or they had a big fight. See, the true test of a relationship is how you react during the hard times, NOT the good times. When push comes to shove you need to show you love your partner. Anyone who cheats..shows they just don't. It's easy to be faithful when you are happy, fulfilled, etc. That is no true test at all. That is like saying a person should get a drivers license because they showed they can slowly drive a car down an empty street. No, you need to show your driving instructor you can handle the TOUGH stuff. Same here.

I take it one step further, I feel you don't love your spouse one bit if you cheat. Some disagree, and since I don't feel like arguing about that, I will just say if you cheat, as the OP says: you sure as hell do not love your spouse enough.

March 6, 2015

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 (NIV)

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

March 6, 2015

To be fair the bible also tells us we should execute people for working on a Sunday. Probably not the best thing to source for advice on..well, anything.

March 6, 2015

Yes, that is somewhat my conclusion too, the cheater, may not be completely invested in the marriage/LTR.

Although some cheaters appear happy in the marriage and some are not, that may well be immaterial. What all cheaters may have in common, is the marriage/LTR is not really that important to them deep down.

It may not be about happiness per se or "love"; it may be more about level of investment.

I guess no cheater wants to be found out, but being found out, may not be as catastrophic to some cheaters, as we all may imagine.

If they are not wholeheartedly invested, then they may be able to take or leave the marriage, whereas those that do not cheat are perhaps more invested.

Non-cheaters see what they will lose if they cheated and do not want to go there, but the cheater may be aware of the loss just the same, but may not really care that much about the marriage, deep down within themselves.

Given the choice; new sexual partner or the marriage, new sexual partner wins.

(I am differentiating cheaters from non cheaters here and not WSs from BSs, as some BSs in certain circumstances or different circumstances may also be cheaters.)

March 6, 2015

I can see where she is coming from on that statement, but I feel that it's too broad to encapsulate the vast array of reasons for cheating.

March 6, 2015

At the time a person is cheating, they are most certainly NOT loving their spouse the way they are supposed. However, no one, especially an internet stranger, can tell another person that their spouse NEVER loved them or will never love them again or is incapable of love.

That is just plain projection and unfinished business talking, basically.

March 6, 2015

Yes, that is somewhat my conclusion too, the cheater, may not be completely invested in the marriage/LTR.
Although some cheaters appear happy in the marriage and some are not, that may well be immaterial. What all cheaters may have in common, is the marriage/LTR is not really that important to them deep down.

It may not be about happiness per se or "love"; it may be more about level of investment.
I guess no cheater wants to be found out, but being found out, may not be as catastrophic to some cheaters, as we all may imagine.
If they are not wholeheartedly invested, then they may be able to take or leave the marriage, whereas those that do not cheat are perhaps more invested.
Non-cheaters see what they will lose if they cheated and do not want to go there, but the cheater may be aware of the loss just the same, but may not really care that much about the marriage, deep down within themselves.
Given the choice; new sexual partner or the marriage, new sexual partner wins.

(I am differentiating cheaters from non cheaters here and not WSs from BSs, as some BSs in certain circumstances or different circumstances may also be cheaters.)

I've talked to my wife about this and she does profess a deep love for me that has not changed from before, during or after. She tells me that she never had any thoughts of not doing it in terms of losing me, she never even thought about that as a possibility to her cheating. She says she simply took US for granted which I think is the truth. She took a lot of the things she has been given for granted. So I think that is where the entitlement comes in.

But in the end I think it comes down to love or the type of love. She says she loves me but somehow in her twisted thinking love does not mean you can fulfill your own desires. That is something we are working through. I'm trying to see the affair as having a deep meaning to how she feels about me and what her love is and she says it was "just a choice she made" and that her love for me is strong and stronger than ever now. It's very hard to understand.

March 6, 2015

Love + respect = fidelity.

Love - respect = infidelity.

I believe you can love and lose respect.

I never once doubted her love for me, I've always known she loved me. Likewise I also know that leading into and thru her affair she had lost a great deal of respect for me. With that she was able to convince herself that our marriage was something that she would be ok without even though she still loved me.

I believed none of this she was selling pre-divorce. It was shown and proved in the following 3 or so years after the divorce. It was a long time to fake love, you know. It was a long time for her to hold on if it wasn't love. She never gave up and for the first year I wouldn't even talk to her, the second year I was dating another woman who asked me to marry her. The third year I allowed her in, but ran very hot and cold. Still dating and sleeping with other women, including the one that asked me to marry her (I actually ended the relationship after saying no, sort of), and she hated this woman with a passion.

In my case I don't believe, no I know it wasn't a lack of love. It was a combination of things that all started with losing respect.

March 6, 2015

For me "the way your supposed to" doesn't really mean anything. I see it that a cheater does not love you in the same way as you love them. Love doesn't mean the same thing to a cheater as it does to you. For them, love is not the profound, sacred feeling that many BS's feel it is, and that sexual & emotional fidelity is a cornerstone of your relationship. For you, sex is not just sex - it is the physical expression of love and trust, and it's special because you save it only for each other. Cheaters don't share this perspective and are confused to the point of being incredulous that their BS doesn't just accept the old "it didn't mean anything to me - it was just sex". They don't understand that the emotional attachment, however short, and the physical act of sex with OM/OW is shattering to their being. It destroys all the things that the BS considered as special and those things can never be repaired. For a BS to reconcile it means they accept that their relationship is forever tarnished and can never hold that special place in their heart.

March 6, 2015

It could be that something fundamental is missing in the soul of a cheater. Maybe they are not capable of love? They think it's all infatuation and romance, when love really is more about changing diapers on a screaming baby at 3am when you have to get up for work at 7am.

Love is about commitment and being a good partner.

I've heard WS tell their BS that they loved them even while in their affairs. I shake my head at this, because if THAT'S their version of love, I want no part of it.

March 6, 2015

"cheating means that you don't love your partner the way you're supposed to"

To me, that statement is rooted from the pain of betrayal. Many people cannot get over the fact that some can love more than one at the same time. I do think that is possible, but i do not think that is what infidelity or affairs do in the vast majority.

Many cannot get over the fact, to generalize, yes to generalize: women don't seem to care that certain sexual acts were done but that via perception/interpretation "someone else was being loved" the cheat in other words is interpreted because the thought causes the greatest pain in that, "you only love one", "you must of loved them more" or "you did not love me, but them."

Then there are the countless men saying "she did this with him and not me", "i can't get that image out of my head"

Then are those exceptions such as one poster here on LS i have great respect for, where the lies is what was the worst part. Quite a few can get past the "love", the "sex" but not the lies.

Affairs as I have argued before are rooted within the person and not the connection/marriage to the betrayed spouse. Call it what you will, i argue one stance others make it a deeper "flawed" concept but the end result is that the problem lies within the wayward no matter how you look at it.

The wayward is caught up, even for years, in lust, the fun and so on as the relationship is never really tested, but to use another word vs my "addiction" stance, the wayward seeks the "thrill" the fun as so many like to use which is not rooted in love no matter the affairs length.

However, the statement, if we take on principle and omit "you don't love" as that is only for the wayward side of the argument, we can say their love or connection with their partner was not honored and was betrayed.

I personally do not get caught up on the "love" aspect as there have been times in my marriage where i was ready to go. Clearly moments where love was absent and hypothetically to use the same logic in all of those moments and we all have them especially the longer the marriage, we should feel just as betrayed when the love was gone. To me i i do not delineate in that if one loses love and finds another vs just losing the love. The loss of love should be the point in other words.

For me the final blow of an affair is in the lies, disrespect and sexual action. I realize that we cannot control who we are attracted to or may generate feelings for, BUT we can control what we do about it. Lies and the sex are the actions, in other words, they have left the realm of "thought police" to actually acting upon it, the line has been crossed, all of the knowing better, disciplines, faithfulness and will have been allowed to collapse by the wayward for the thrill.

I also cannot logically equate love to affairs, to say "love changed" or "love loss" means the affair is in fact about "love." In my opinion, the betrayed spouse is giving more power to the affair in the context of love then what it really is, something cheap. Therefore i cannot alter the definition of love in that regard, that is why i suppose, the "love context" is not as important as the action itself. I cannot be the thought police nor hope to control one's mind in how they feel day to day. If the relationship is dead and love is truly lost perpetually, it is upon the that spouse to not become a wayward and to not also cheat themselves by following a path that cheapens themselves and the commitments they are supposed to honor. However, as stated above and elsewhere, something breaks inside and translates to cheating.

March 6, 2015

For a BS to reconcile it means they accept that their relationship is forever tarnished and can never hold that special place in their heart.

I'm going to ask my wife about this tonight. I wouldn't want her to feel this way forever. I'd rather her divorce me.

If that is true, how do people recover, find healing and move forward?

Are you saying recovery isn't possible at all?

March 6, 2015

For a BS to reconcile it means they accept that their relationship is forever tarnished and can never hold that special place in their heart.

I agree with most of what you said but this point I don't. Why does it have to be forever tarnished? Is that not part of forgiveness? Yes someone deeply hurts you but holding on to that hurt and thinking the relationship is tarnished cannot be a healthy way to live.

March 6, 2015

I agree with most of what you said but this point I don't. Why does it have to be forever tarnished? Is that not part of forgiveness? Yes someone deeply hurts you but holding on to that hurt and thinking the relationship is tarnished cannot be a healthy way to live.

I'm glad I'm not the only who disagrees with this.

My own therapist, whom I trust dearly, has told me she sees many couples work through affairs and end up with more fulfilling, healthier marriages.

That's my goal. I wouldn't want my wife to feel like our marriage is tarnished forever.

I know she doesn't see it that way.

March 6, 2015

To be fair the bible also tells us we should execute people for working on a Sunday. Probably not the best thing to source for advice on..well, anything.

To be fair the Bible also is where the institution of marriage is defined-and marriage is a religious concept, not civil-and also is heavily against infidelity. It is true that the Bible does say that Israelites who worked on the Sabbath would be put to death but you are entirely missing the context of that command and why the punishment was so severe. So don't cherry pick.

March 6, 2015

It could be that something fundamental is missing in the soul of a cheater. Maybe they are not capable of love? They think it's all infatuation and romance, when love really is more about changing diapers on a screaming baby at 3am when you have to get up for work at 7am.

Love is about commitment and being a good partner.

I've heard WS tell their BS that they loved them even while in their affairs. I shake my head at this, because if THAT'S their version of love, I want no part of it.

What about someone that changed diapers on a screaming babies at 3am many times, is a good faithful spouse and excellent mother for many years, and then cheats? Surely their soul did not change after many years?

Maybe they were always able to cheat becuase their love style allowed it but they just did not have the opportunity and the right circumstances?

March 6, 2015

[...]

Maybe they were always able to cheat becuase their love style allowed it but they just did not have the opportunity and the right circumstances?

I'd say that's probably the case.

The diaper scenario was just about how love isn't all about hearts, flowers, and romance. Most of the time it's pretty un-romantic in fact.

Love is shown through commitment and having your spouses back no matter what.

March 6, 2015

Love is shown through commitment and having your spouses back no matter what.

Love is also shown through forgiveness.

Love is also being able to work through the hardest of circumstances.

Love is also about believing in someone, when they no longer are able to believe in themselves.

Love is not black and white.

March 6, 2015

Love is also shown through forgiveness.

Love is also being able to work through the hardest of circumstances.

Love is also about believing in someone, when they no longer are able to believe in themselves.

Love is not black and white.

I've never found forgiveness for my WW - simply because I will always resent her for what she did, and as long as there is resentment there can be no true forgiveness.

A lot of BS redefine forgiveness because we think it's something we HAVE TO do. IMO it isn't. You can continue to be with someone and love them, and yet not forgive them for the pain they caused you.

March 6, 2015

I've talked to my wife about this and she does profess a deep love for me that has not changed from before, during or after. She tells me that she never had any thoughts of not doing it in terms of losing me, she never even thought about that as a possibility to her cheating. She says she simply took US for granted which I think is the truth. She took a lot of the things she has been given for granted. So I think that is where the entitlement comes in.

But in the end I think it comes down to love or the type of love. She says she loves me but somehow in her twisted thinking love does not mean you can fulfill your own desires. That is something we are working through. I'm trying to see the affair as having a deep meaning to how she feels about me and what her love is and she says it was "just a choice she made" and that her love for me is strong and stronger than ever now. It's very hard to understand.

I don't think it's as hard to understand as you think.

I'll give you a great example from my life. I have a best friend who is a genius. I mean, literally a genius. I work in a field of HIGHLY intelligent, ivy league educated, VIP type people and he would have to dumb it down just speak with them.

Yet, despite being 1000x smarter than nearly everyone I know, he can't keep a job, girlfriend, etc. Smartest guy I know can't keep a cell phone longer than a month or two. His biggest battle of the day is finding his keys. He has impulse control issues that are beyond comprehension. He can't even be hungry longer than 5 minutes before he takes off in the snow @ 3 am in a bad neighborhood to get food. (For those picking up these traits, yes, he is diagnosed with ADHD)

My mom always says "HereNorThere, he must not be as smart as you think he is if he can't keep a job", but she doesn't understand that being intelligent has nothing to do with being organized, having impulse control, and the million other characteristics that make up the human mind.

You can love someone, but lack empathy. You can have empathy, but lack impulse control. You can be the smartest guy I know, but still be unable to find you car keys. Being gifted or responsible in one area of human behavior doesn't always spill over into the next. Our brains are so complicated, so unique to each individual, it's hard to understand why one person could have one portion of their life under control, but not the next.

March 6, 2015

I believe my cheating H has love for me. He has more love for himself. He recently told me (during a convo about divorcing) that he would go on and lead a good life that its me who is so emotionally invested. Obviously he has seen the other side. He knows because he has cheated that there are other women who want him. Whereas the bs who loves so fully so vested in the marriage. Well we have never seen "other" love (real or not) than our spouse. We have loved so fully that we put up with so much abuse. I do believe they love us the ww or wh. However, we are Not their world. We are not the backbone to their happiness. We are just not important Enough. Do we need to look at our happiness and work to make ourselves happy outside of our marriage? I just know that wanting my wh to feel my pain and be fully vested in us is a pipe dream.

March 6, 2015

What about someone that changed diapers on a screaming babies at 3am many times, is a good faithful spouse and excellent mother for many years, and then cheats? Surely their soul did not change after many years?

Maybe they were always able to cheat becuase their love style allowed it but they just did not have the opportunity and the right circumstances?

"love style" as in "version of love" | Why give so much power to an affair by using love or versions/styles thereof as explicatives?

As with my post on the prior page, "opportunity" is key. We simply cannot control who we are attracted to but we can control what we do about it. To use love for this context is to cheapen it by saying the waywards version or style. Why not take their behavior completely out of the definition as i explained on the previous page?

March 6, 2015

Love + respect = fidelity.

Love - respect = infidelity.

Well said. I'll take it a step further:

Divorce = Broken Marriage

Infidelity = Broken Person

It's misleading to look at cheating from the perspective of your partner's "love" for you. That's about the relationship.

Cheating is about the person. Fidelity is "faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support". A relationship can't commit infidelity, that's on the participants...

Mr. Lucky

March 6, 2015

Well said. I'll take it a step further:

Divorce = Broken Marriage

Infidelity = Broken Person

It's misleading to look at cheating from the perspective of your partner's "love" for you. That's about the relationship.

Cheating is about the person. Fidelity is "faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support". A relationship can't commit infidelity, that's on the participants...

Mr. Lucky

also well stated.

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Cheating means that you don't love your partner the way you're supposed to?

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