BS in Limbo

[Bittersweetie]

LD, I just wanted to say that I've always admired your posts and I am so sorry that you are going through this. I'm thinking of you and sending you positive thoughts and hugs (if that's not weird).

[fellini]

I would agree with this until the bolded part. I think that part only arrives if you have dumped your WS.

 

It is possible to live with a WS and never get to that point. There is no light to come on, that light is out.

 

The only way anyone is going to survive reconciliation is to learn to live with, and embrace contradiction.

 

Both choices are right. But neither one is the correct one.

 

I am willing to bet many Bs's just live with it due to other life circumstances. True reconciliation I believe is few and far between. After my wife's affair I want to experience the world for me. She completely changed the dynamics of my life, her life and our kids. I think initially after the shock wears off the BS has to make a decision that not many people want to make. From the outside it may seem easy for somebody who has never experienced infidelity. One day you think you can make it the next day you're a disaster. One day you're happy the next day you're in shambles after something just reminded you of what your spouse did to you. Then after you cycle it enough it just starts to get repulsive. Then you wonder how a person you thought loved you was able to screw and love another man (or woman) for so long. Then the light bulb eventually turns on and you realize who that person really is under their deceptive outer shell the carry well. I'm not lumping all WS's on here because I think there are true people who carry real remorse who post here.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Well..I guess to me it isn't limbo...it is life. Life is full of uncertainties. We don't know from day to day..and infidelity certainly proves that.

 

We make the best choices each day not knowing the outcome. I have not experienced false reconciliation...and by definition I am not sure I even agree there is such a thing as false reconciliation.....you decide to stay together after the infidelity occurs....you "restore" friendly relations....you make a truce....and you hope that each of you is doing your part to heal the relationship....you find out one was not doing his part. Was it false reconciliation?

 

We are 31 years together since my affair...are we still in reconciliation or are we just married? And if we divorced tomorrow..was the reconciliation false? It took me a very long time to fulfill johns needs...I was not giving him everything he needed...so was the reconciliation false?

And did we exist in limbo?

 

I don't know..I think sometimes we try to pigeonhole our relationships into all these terminologies to try to find healing and understanding and we lose sight of what it is really all about.

 

I have not lived in limbo...I stayed married. John may have been in limbo..I can't answer for him. But when he said I could stay...the deal was done.

 

We have been married 42 years...and there have been times in that 42 that I have questioned...would we be married forever. Limbo? Or uncertainty of life?

 

If it has been limbo...if all those years I was trying to be the best wife i knew how to be was false reconciliation....then maybe the simplistic, easiest answer for everyone involved in infidelity is to divorce...as quickly as possible....

 

And stay single..because you might live in limbo with the next spouse as well.

 

I never say anything with the intent to cause more pain for anyone....I am just thinking and trying to absorb what you all are saying.

[jm2013]

Well..I guess to me it isn't limbo...it is life. Life is full of uncertainties. We don't know from day to day..and infidelity certainly proves that.

 

We make the best choices each day not knowing the outcome. I have not experienced false reconciliation...and by definition I am not sure I even agree there is such a thing as false reconciliation.....you decide to stay together after the infidelity occurs....you "restore" friendly relations....you make a truce....and you hope that each of you is doing your part to heal the relationship....you find out one was not doing his part. Was it false reconciliation?

 

We are 31 years together since my affair...are we still in reconciliation or are we just married? And if we divorced tomorrow..was the reconciliation false? It took me a very long time to fulfill johns needs...I was not giving him everything he needed...so was the reconciliation false?

And did we exist in limbo?

 

I don't know..I think sometimes we try to pigeonhole our relationships into all these terminologies to try to find healing and understanding and we lose sight of what it is really all about.

 

I have not lived in limbo...I stayed married. John may have been in limbo..I can't answer for him. But when he said I could stay...the deal was done.

 

We have been married 42 years...and there have been times in that 42 that I have questioned...would we be married forever. Limbo? Or uncertainty of life?

 

If it has been limbo...if all those years I was trying to be the best wife i knew how to be was false reconciliation....then maybe the simplistic, easiest answer for everyone involved in infidelity is to divorce...as quickly as possible....

 

And stay single..because you might live in limbo with the next spouse as well.

 

I never say anything with the intent to cause more pain for anyone....I am just thinking and trying to absorb what you all are saying.

 

I think what really saved your marriage was your honesty toward your husband. While the pain was still there you gave your marriage a solid platform to work from. It doesn't sound like you minimized, lied or tried to continue your affair. The guilt you exhibited after the one time drove you to tell your husband without trying to suppress it and hide it. Anyways, I think the limbo part happens when a BS is blindsided by the affair and has no clue what they are going to do. One day you think you're on top of the world. Living the dream, house, kids, watering your lawn then one day BOOM. All your dreams, thoughts, happiness was just shattered in one instant. You feel stripped of everything. Then you start evaluating your situation. Should I stay until the kids leave the house? Should I compromise my own happiness for my family? How will we live apart? Where do I start? What is going to happen to my children? Will this be better if I stay? How am I going to pay for everything?

 

I think this is where the limbo happens. You are constantly evaluating your options and you feel stuck. You try to evaluate your risk which ever route you go which paralyzes most people. The risk of the unknown is overwhelming. Sometimes you feel comforted with the things you're used to. I think it is harder for a betrayed husband due to the fact in most cases he knows he has to walk away from his family where the wife will typically walk away with the kids.

[jm2013]

I would agree with this until the bolded part. I think that part only arrives if you have dumped your WS.

 

It is possible to live with a WS and never get to that point. There is no light to come on, that light is out.

 

The only way anyone is going to survive reconciliation is to learn to live with, and embrace contradiction.

 

Both choices are right. But neither one is the correct one.

 

Sorry, that statement you put in bold was more geared toward my wife. I was just kind of letting loose.

[dichotomy]

I guess when I read this I was thinking specifically about affair limbo and trying to relate to LD's situation. To me, affair limbo is the confusion, pain and lack of trust that you feel after an affair. I think every BS goes through this stage. How long does it last? I think it varies from person to person. I think most in this stage takes action either to divorce, reconcile or possibly just live with it due to other life circumstances.

 

 

My family wants a dog. I had dogs as a kid. Even had a nice golden retriever. My little daughter has been pushing for a dog...then she starts asking "would a dog we got chew my toys?" "Yes - honey that's a possibility. They could also poop on your bed... or even bite you". "Even a nice dog we would get - dad!?" "Yes - honey, not likely but all dogs can chew stuff and maybe bite, that just their nature. We would try to get a nice one and train it well". "Dad - I don't want a dog to hurt me or my stuff"

 

I came to realize that not trusting my wife (or any woman) to cheat/lie again was like having a family dog and trusting it would never bite me again. Its just a possibility you have to live with any living thing. You can be sad, or run away, or give up on having a companion, let someone else have it, or you make a choice and just live with it and keep an eye out"

Edited March 3, 2015 by dichotomy

[jm2013]

My family wants a dog. I had dogs as a kid. Even had a nice golden retriever. My little daughter has been pushing for a dog...then she starts asking "would a dog we got chew my toys?" "Yes - honey that's a possibility. They could also poop on your bed... or even bite you". "Even a nice dog we would get - dad!?" "Yes - honey, not likely but all dogs can chew stuff and maybe bite, that just their nature. We would try to get a nice one and train it well". "Dad - I don't want a dog to hurt me or my stuff"

 

I came to realize that not trusting my wife to cheat/lie again was like having a family dog and trusting it would never bite me again. Its just a possibility you have to live with any living thing". You can be sad, or run away, or you make a choice just keep an eye out"

 

Nice analogy. It's too bad we can't pack our spouses up in a crate and dump our problems off to an APL (Affair Protection League) and let them deal with the problem until some other unlucky person adopts them.

[badkarma2013]

Posted By Mrs. Adams..."We make the best choices each day not knowing the outcome. I have not experienced false reconciliation...and by definition I am not sure I even agree there is such a thing as false reconciliation.....you decide to stay together after the infidelity occurs....you "restore" friendly relations....you make a truce....and you hope that each of you is doing your part to heal the relationship....you find out one was not doing his part. Was it false reconciliation..."

 

 

 

No disrespect intended ,Mrs Adams...I must disagree...There is PLENTY of examples of false R just on LS....

How many BHs just here...enter into R Knowing they cannot and will NEVER get over their WWS Affair...but they attempt R anyway.....Again i am sorry to say I believe their entire thinking process (whether admitted or not)...Is to inflict the pain and humilitation on their WWs, that we BHs ALL feel on D-DAY....I truly know this for a fact as do many WWs in this situation do..

 

How about the WS who is caught and portrays the repentant Spouse..But Still continues contact and continues the Affair...There are MANY threads here on this subject....

 

If these are NOT examples of False R....Someone give a reason why they are not.......Badkarma

 

Again, no disrespect to you Mrs Adams..

[badkarma2013]

My family wants a dog. I had dogs as a kid. Even had a nice golden retriever. My little daughter has been pushing for a dog...then she starts asking "would a dog we got chew my toys?" "Yes - honey that's a possibility. They could also poop on your bed... or even bite you". "Even a nice dog we would get - dad!?" "Yes - honey, not likely but all dogs can chew stuff and maybe bite, that just their nature. We would try to get a nice one and train it well". "Dad - I don't want a dog to hurt me or my stuff"

 

I came to realize that not trusting my wife (or any woman) to cheat/lie again was like having a family dog and trusting it would never bite me again. Its just a possibility you have to live with any living thing. You can be sad, or run away, or give up on having a companion, let someone else have it, or you make a choice and just live with it and keep an eye out"

 

 

Any Analogy you wish...as i have stated many times..."Every dog will bite ,under the right circumstances ...Every da*n one of them"

 

Badkarma

[Arieswoman]

Badkarma,

 

Any Analogy you wish...as i have stated many times..."Every dog will bite ,under the right circumstances ...Every da*n one of them"

 

I agree, but I would also say that the best indication of future behaviour is past behaviour.......

[fellini]

I agree life is uncertain,, and yes we all have to live with that, uncertainty grows like a wart on the face of marriage that has experienced infidelity perhaps.

 

But living with contradiction is not the same thing. Because the contradictory emotions are inside and not external uncertainty. I think this explains in part why some BS'S shake their head in wonder at those who choose to fight and stay, struggle and suffer. You really have to experience living inside contradictory thoughts, every day, and still know who you are. And function.

 

QUOTE=Mrs. John Adams;6190401]Well..I guess to me it isn't limbo...it is life. Life is full of uncertainties. We don't know from day to day..and infidelity certainly proves that.

 

We make the best choices each day not knowing the outcome.

[badkarma2013]

I agree life is uncertain,, and yes we all have to live with that, uncertainty grows like a wart on the face of marriage perhaps.

 

But living with contradiction is not the same thing. Because the contradictory emotions are inside and not external uncertainty. I think this explains in part why some BS'S shake their head in wonder at those who choose to fight and stay, struggle and suffer. You really have to experience living inside contradictory thoughts, every day, and still know who you are. And function.

 

QUOTE=Mrs. John Adams;6190401]Well..I guess to me it isn't limbo...it is life. Life is full of uncertainties. We don't know from day to day..and infidelity certainly proves that.

 

We make the best choices each day not knowing the outcome.

 

*****************************************************************

 

Fellini...Im still on horseback and in a never ending sandstorm...But as you have stated" things are forever changing...and nothing remains the same.."

 

When i break free from the storm ..you will be the first to know...Badkarma

 

PS I do now understand you..

[sandylee1]

Posted By Mrs. Adams..."We make the best choices each day not knowing the outcome. I have not experienced false reconciliation...and by definition I am not sure I even agree there is such a thing as false reconciliation.....you decide to stay together after the infidelity occurs....you "restore" friendly relations....you make a truce....and you hope that each of you is doing your part to heal the relationship....you find out one was not doing his part. Was it false reconciliation..."

 

 

 

No disrespect intended ,Mrs Adams...I must disagree...There is PLENTY of examples of false R just on LS....

How many BHs just here...enter into R Knowing they cannot and will NEVER get over their WWS Affair...but they attempt R anyway.....Again i am sorry to say I believe their entire thinking process (whether admitted or not)...Is to inflict the pain and humilitation on their WWs, that we BHs ALL feel on D-DAY....I truly know this for a fact as do many WWs in this situation do..

 

How about the WS who is caught and portrays the repentant Spouse..But Still continues contact and continues the Affair...There are MANY threads here on this subject....

 

If these are NOT examples of False R....Someone give a reason why they are not.......Badkarma

 

Again, no disrespect to you Mrs Adams..

 

I think when a lot of people say false R, it refers to the WS still having the A. Usually taking it underground.

[Mrs. John Adams]

thank you sandylee....that is probably accurate....

[Mrs. John Adams]

I actually really like the term rebuilder.....instead of reconciling....because rebuilding portrays an active process to me....

 

It is a slow process....and maybe sometimes it feels like we are not making any progress....

 

John talked to me last night and said I was arguing semantics...and I admit to you all on this thread that I was. I apologize......

 

We know a lady who is 4 years out from dday....she and her husband live in separate houses....and she says they are in reconciliation. They never divorced....

 

Limbo? I guess...but it sure appears to me a decision has been made to make no decision.

[BetrayedH]

For the purposes of this particular thread, I definitely thought your emphasis on semantics was kinda off-track (certainly not a major offense or anything new here). But for ladydesigner, she is stuck between deciding to reconcile, divorce, or to just stay and limp along. It doesn't matter if we like the term "limbo" or not. She needs help with that decision.

 

I also think that semantic discussions on "false reconciliation" are missing the mark. The fact is that ladydesigner thought that her wayward husband was reconciling in earnest when, in fact, the affair had still been going on for another TWO YEARS. No matter what we call it, she needs help actually dealing with it. The poor woman has been focused on repairing her marriage (and feeling successful about that investment) for years now and then BAM, everything suddenly points towards divorce as being the only option.

 

That's a major change of direction and a hell of a lot to handle.

 

She needs help with making a decision and sadly, I think what she needs most of all is to find courage (which is damn tough when you're down). What also makes it really difficult is that she needs to feel confident about such a big decision. But here her husband is "looking" like he's truly remorseful, trying, being honest, blah, blah, blah and I'm sure she'd like to save her marriage but she can't even trust her own judgement anymore. How the hell does she get confident about what she needs to do? I feel for her, big time, and it's no surprise to me that she's stuck in a period of indecisiveness.

[ladydesigner]

Although technically correct, I'm not sure the Catholic definition really fits the bill. I supoose then that limbo really isn't the appropriate term.

 

For me, being in limbo meant that I honestly had no clue WTF to do. I didn't know if I could trust her. I didn't know if she was lying. I didn't know what to believe. I didn't trust my own judgment. Didn't know if I should stay or if I should go. Do I put my foot down or be patient? Didn't know if I should ask her to leave or send her a flirty text message. Didn't know if I should put both feet into reconciling, or neither, or if I should wait and see. I had no idea what actions to take. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to prioritize my life. Should I keep investing? Or is that throwing good money after bad? Is she being honest now or am I being stupid?

 

In the meantime, I suffered hypervigilance. I was obsessed with trying to "figure it out." I was a smart guy and I wanted answers. I wanted a solution. I wanted to know what to do. I studied, researched, watched everything like a hawk. I lost 38 pounds and had to remind myself to eat. I thought about it from the instant I woke up until the moment I fell asleep (and usually during my dreams). And I still didn't have a damn clue.

 

You get stuck if this gawd-awful analysis paralysis. And life continues to happen anyway. You flounder with every decision, having no clue if it is the right decision or exactly the wrong decision. You put on some weirdly confident face and pretend you've got it together. And in trying not to make a hasty decusion that would have life-long impacts, you end up staying by default. You haven't decided to leave and so you've kinda sorta ended up deciding to stay.

 

And if you're like ladydesigner, after two years of this torturous nonsense that you've suffered for the sake of your family, you find out that your spouse has still been in the affair the whole time. WHAT COMPLETE ****lNG BULLSHlT!! And now she's stuck doing this analysis all over again?! Because NOW he's being open, honest, and transparent? You must be freaking kidding me.

 

I'm not confronting you at all Mrs Adams (I respect your presence here and your musings on the subject - it's obvious that you care) but this is far from LD just choosing to be happy or unhappy or choosing not to be in limbo. It's a freakin catastrophic disaster that is completely of her husband's making and I just can't believe that she is left in this position. She struggled mightily to give him a gift and he crapped all over it. And now she has NO good choices. The guy has unilaterally destroyed them all. My wife did the same thing - I did what I could to minimize the damage and to salvage something for us and in the meantime, she was lighting fuses. Astonishing. There really outta be a special place in hell for the people that engage in a false reconciliation.

 

It's like you are reading my mind! I feel exactly how you have described your situation BetrayedH.

 

I just don't think I have it in me to try to R again. I am taking my time right now to really think this out, but I will be meeting with a lawyer and at least finding out what my future may look like.

[BetrayedH]

It's like you are reading my mind! I feel exactly how you have described your situation BetrayedH.

 

I just don't think I have it in me to try to R again. I am taking my time right now to really think this out, but I will be meeting with a lawyer and at least finding out what my future may look like.

 

You mentioned being afraid. I'm trying to recall if you have medical conditions that bring an extra concern. Or is it financial? Or emotional? Or just uncertainty about it all? Or something else entirely? What does your worst fear look like?

 

ETA: glad to hear you'll get an attorney consult.

[ladydesigner]

You mentioned being afraid. I'm trying to recall if you have medical conditions that bring an extra concern. Or is it financial? Or emotional? Or just uncertainty about it all? Or something else entirely? What does your worst fear look like?

 

ETA: glad to hear you'll get an attorney consult.

 

My fear is my kids growing up in a broken home and having to live a life with a blended family, but what I am beginning to realize is that they are already living in a broken home

[BetrayedH]

My fear is my kids growing up in a broken home and having to live a life with a blended family, but what I am beginning to realize is that they are already living in a broken home

 

I hear you. I really wanted for my kids to have a nuclear family, too. Once I knew that it was my only motivation for staying married, I called it quits. To your point, (as much as I hate quoting this guy) Dr Phil has a saying that it's better for kids to be from a broken home than in one. Others have said that it's better for kids to be raised by two happy parents in two households than by two unhappy parents in one household. But I'm sure these aren't new concepts to you.

 

From my own (admittedly anecdotal) experience, my parents stayed together despite being miserable. My father cheated when I was young and I ended up being the eldest of four boys. As soon as the last boy left the nest, my mother divorced my father. What a collosal waste. My mother gained the upper hand in the relationship but it was clear to all of us that there was no love between them. It was a poor example of a marital dynamic and worst of all, I watched my poor mother waste more than two decades of her life in this effort to keep the family unit together. I don't think it did us any favors. And I really wish she hadn't done that. And frankly, it's what sold me on the idea that I'd never stay together "just" for the kids. I've also seen data that says that younger kids adapt more quickly than older (and even adult) children. So I believe that staying for the kids is actually counter productive.

 

As for my kids, they actually adapted remarkably quickly and have done very well for over three years now. I credit a lot of that to the efforts of my exwife and myself. I did a lot of research on what to anticipate, what to say to the kids, what not to say, and why. We each have them half the week and we keep them out of the adult crap.

 

Is it the optimum scenario for my kids? Of course not. It's not what I wanted either. But that's the reality that my wife left us with and it's just one of those crappy realities that comes along with acceptance.

 

Currently, I'm dealing with blending families. My kids are great but my GF's kids aren't so great. That's because her exH is happy to throw her under the bus with the kids. It's all her fault. But research shows that kids do better with divorce when no one particular parent is perceived to be at fault. She refuses to badmouth her exH with the kids and so it hasn't gone as well for her. There's times I wish she would defend herself more but I give her a lot of credit for taking the high road. It will take a while but she's playing the long game and in the end, they'll appreciate her as a mother.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't know her story....and i apologize for being insensitive....

 

I agree she needs help and i clearly am not the one to assist her.

When my husband said i could stay...i was completely in the marriage....

I understand how devastating it must be to find out your spouses was still in the affair.

 

I would have a hard time believing him a second time....

 

and honestly no one can advise you what is best for you....but we certainly can tell you whatever you decide...you have lots of support here.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I think a WS can be the cause of PUTTING someone IN limbo, whatever that means, but I cannot see how they are responsible for them SUFFERING in LIMBO for years.

 

In fact, by declaring a 3 month no-decision moratorium on action after DDAY, I am just as responsible for the limbo I live. During those months and months of "stay-go stay-go" that I went through DAY AFTER DAY, I am responsible for that too: my decision to live with STAY GO.

 

At some point, if one wants to say, Im going to reconcile, I'm going to try, then really it is no longer about the WS. The WS must behave in a way that is consistent with NOT BEING A WS and that is that. Limbo still can occur even while this is the case. So limbo is my issue, not my WS's, in that sense.

 

I think that is where I'm at now. I'm working on reconciling but still have thoughts everyday about calling it off. But I'm letting go of all the pain (as much as possible anyway) and I'm proceeding like I'm not in limbo and have every intention of sticking it out. Time will tell if that is possible.

[HereNorThere]

Have you considered why you are in limbo? I think ultimately, that's question you need to ask yourself.

 

Plenty of posters here have "reconciled" with an active cheater or caught their WS cheating again and decided to stay. Plenty of people send their WS to work with their AP and have little to no proof that the affair ever ended. Plenty of people have accepted that they're spouse is probably going to cheat again and they've made peace with it. They could catch their spouse in bed with someone right now and would stay, so what is different about you? Why can't you be like them and let this go? What makes you respect yourself more than they do?

 

So, why are you staying or why are you leaving? Your husband isn't going to change and it sounds like you have all the information you'll ever need regarding his character.

 

Why are you in limbo? My guess is that you're still in love with idea of who you thought your partner was. Our lives, our personalities are built on social bonds and when you lose one of those bonds, it's like losing a little part of yourself. In your case, it sounds like the part you'd be losing is a cancerous tumor, but some people don't like going under the knife.

 

P.S. - The other posters are right about biting dogs, but there's a big difference between a little snip here or there and living with Cujo. Sometimes dogs bite so much that they have to be put down.

[BetrayedH]

P.S. - The other posters are right about biting dogs, but there's a big difference between a little snip here or there and living with Cujo. Sometimes dogs bite so much that they have to be put down.

 

Yeah, kinda have to agree with this. I've been with a different woman for a few years now and while there's no guarantee that this one won't cheat, I have nowhere near the anxiety I'm sure I would still have if I were still with my exwife.

[fellini]

Or perhaps then the metaphor is not up to the task. Maybe one needs to find a better metaphor, not a better dog.

 

 

P.S. - The other posters are right about biting dogs, but there's a big difference between a little snip here or there and living with Cujo. Sometimes dogs bite so much that they have to be put down.