Forgiveness

[autumnnight]

She said it was something she needed to do and that I should be happy that she discovered she wasn't missing anything. That she now knows she wants only me.

 

I have no idea if I am still on ignore. But in case I am not....I apologize for every bit of snarky attitude I have ever tossed your way. I couldn't read past this. I cannot imagine. You should be HAPPY????

 

I apologize profusely.

[drifter777]

Can i ask you...did you ever ask her to read the Linda MacDonald book how to help your spouse heal from your affair?

 

Maybe just maybe it would rattle something in her mind to help her know and realize completely what she has done to you.

I read the book and am hesitant to ask her to read it. You see, she relishes in the fact that she did not have "an affair". She just cheated, openly, for a month or so. In her mind it makes it less of an offense. To me its like the difference between a serial killer and a spree killer. One plans his murders more carefully than the other, but a lot of innocent people are killed either way. At any rate, it was just as wrong and hurtful no matter what label you give it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Drifter...she admits to cheating...so obviously she knows it was wrong. No matter what you call it.

 

I think it might be a good idea to have her read it...

[Glarner]

Katielee,

 

 

I am sorry for the pain, anguish, and struggles you and your H are going through. My WW and I have been dealing with some of this for more than two decades now. I cannot add anything of great substance beyond the wisdom already posted on this thread, but I will add my perspective as the BH to echo what has already been said.

 

 

For many years I tried hard to convince myself that I did not need much from my WW. I tried to tell myself the A was not that big of a deal and that I should be able to move past it. My WW was happy with not dealing with it. I knew inside that I was not fully happy but I never took the time to really look at myself to figure out why. So much of my life was good - I just needed to buck up and get with the program.

 

 

When I was finally ready to admit to myself that I needed to address the A, like Mrs. JA describes I did not know what I needed. I read book and followed forums and proceeded to latch onto my "need of the week". I needed apologies one week. When I tired of asking for that I decided it was something else I needed - I needed to know exactly what she was thing when.... And that got replaced by another need the following week.

 

 

At the times I asked for those specific things I really did feel I needed them (and I probably did). But after riding that merry-go-round of ever changing horses for months I began to realize that there was something underlying all of these things that I really needed. True remorse. I needed to see that my WW felt and knew my pain - and that was the single most important thing in her world - to try and fix as much of that as she could. I needed her to bring it up (not to wait for me to express my sorrow or pain); I needed her to come home and lead me by the hand upstairs to hold me and tell me she was thinking about this and wanted me to know... (and not always wait for me to ask).

 

 

Mrs. JA and JA have expressed all of this more eloquently than I ever could. But in the end for me - it has turned out that my needs really come down to my WW convincing me that she is willing to move mountains alongside me to rebuild the intimacy and trust in our M. It almost doesn't matter now for me if it is an expression of sorrow for the A, describing some deep thinking about what caused it, her intentions and actions, her deep regret for what it has done to me / us. It is the passion and persistence with which she does all of those things that is key for me.

 

 

Katielee; Drifter; Merrmeade; VBM - there is enough pain in the stories of this thread that I simply cannot comprehend. How can this happen? How can people do this? How can people survive? I have cried more than once reading through all of your stories. And I have been amazed by the strength and grace I read. I wish the best for all of you.

[merrmeade]

Can i ask you...did you ever ask her to read the Linda MacDonald book how to help your spouse heal from your affair?

 

Maybe just maybe it would rattle something in her mind to help her know and realize completely what she has done to you.

Dear Mrs. Adams,

You are such a lovely soul and share your full-color embrace of life's best and yourself so freely and well, but there's something I've been wanting to say for some time. I would just like to offer a tiny reality check in your enthusiasm for the Linda McDonald book.

 

I know this book. BetrayedH recommended it within the first week following D-day. After 3-4 reminders, H read it and was gung-ho committed, ready to save the marriage and make all things right ... for about a week. And don't get me wrong: He was genuinely moved and convinced he/we could do it. But he obviously did not get it, never reread it and certainly did not follow every step of the recommendations because he didn't/couldn't disclose all or freely. It was much, much later that he disclosed his other betrayals.

 

Not that my husband is unique. There are other WSs who have read the book and successfully ignored or misunderstood the spirit and practice of it.

 

So, my dear, please give yourself the credit you deserve and put Linda in perspective: She put the words forward in the right way for you and you found them at the right time in yours and Mr. Adams' lives, but it's YOUR love of truth and wise embrace of selflessness that has given the book its power in your life.

 

Other people will continue to take what they can from it and ignore the rest, just as they do other timely, well-constructed advice that comes their way. The truth of it didn't go home. They weren't really open to the sacrifice required. They didn't really want it.

Edited February 24, 2015 by merrmeade

[Mrs. John Adams]

sweetheart...you made me cry....and i know you are right and John and i talk about it frequently....my heart was ready....

 

I had watched him struggle for so many years and i was damned determined that it was NOT going to happen again...i did not care what i had to do...i was going to Pull him through this.

 

He knew that i was really trying so hard...I asked him every five seconds...are you ok babe? What can i do babe? Let me hold you babe....

 

He was frightened when he e mailed me the book....but i was so ready....i sat in a corner at work and read every page....

 

and then i sent him this letter

 

There are so many things I want to say and need to say I have finished the book and I want to thank you for sending it to me. It gave me great insight to many things. It helped me to see the mistakes I have made these past 30 years. Let me first say to you how deeply sorry I am for the pain I have caused you all these years. Hurting you was never my intention and I feel terrible that my Selfishness has hurt you so deeply. You are the person I love more than anything or anyone and yet I was selfish and only thought of myself and was willing to sacrifice our trust, our love, our marriage, never thinking of how you would feel... Not caring how much I would hurt you in the process. I accept full responsibility for my actions... For my betrayal. I also am very sorry for the horrible things I have said to you. I have continued to be a selfish person, thinking about how I feel instead of how I have made you feel.

I ask you to forgive me for not only what I did but for what I have said. I ask you to forgive me for my selfishness. I am disgusted by my own behavior. I am deeply ashamed. It was never my intention to Hurt you. It was my intention to make myself feel better. It has always been about me. And it should have been about you. I cannot undo what I have done or said but I can promise to do better. I promise to love and cherish you all the days of my life. I promise to put your feelings before mine. I promise to be there for you when you need to cry, when you need me to squeeze your hand, when you need me to say how very much I love you. I promise to be the kind of wife you have always deserved. The kind of wife God provided for you 41 years ago and I messed up. I stole the innocence of our youth and instead gave you a life of pain.

I cannot take it away but I can do better have always loved you and I sure have a poor way if showing it. I loved myself first. I am not Worthy of your love or loyalty but I am so thankful for it. Please forgive me and give me the chance to prove to you how very sorry I am for hurting you.

[drifter777]

JA & Mrs. JA :

 

There is an old proverb that goes:

 

"When the student is ready, the teacher appears"

 

To me this means that when someone is ready to learn a lesson, anyone can teach it to them. The reason is that when a person is "ready" they pretty much know the answer and they just need someone or something to help them manifest it. Of course that manifesting part can be elusive so a good teacher helps you get there faster. This book can be a good teacher for a WS who is ready to go all-in on earning forgiveness.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I wish i had had this book and forums early on...but then maybe i would not have been receptive.

 

But thank you drifter....that was really really good.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[VeryBrokenMan]

I shared this privately with another member yesterday and it really helped me to read it again. About ten years ago Steve Jobs (deceased former CEO of Apple computer) gave a speech to the graduating class at Standford. There were a couple of passages that deeply affected my thinking 10 years ago and today as well.

 

When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like: "If you live each day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something.

 

Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything — all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.

I have no doubt that some of that quote will resonate with some and I have no doubt that other parts of his speech might also help someone. I also know that many people hate Steve Jobs and this may not be for you.

 

Here is the rest of the text and there is a link to the video on YouTube :

Text of Steve Jobs' Commencement address (2005)

 

I looked up a month ago and said "Do I want to go on living like this?" and the answer was no. My state of mind and thinking is that life is too short to hold on to the anger and bitterness, it only hurts me. I choose to forgive for my own selfish interests and that has been shaped by my beliefs that Steve Jobs speech planted 10 years ago. I know I will be dead soon(or sooner than I'd like) so I'm following my heart and making choices that will make me happy.

 

Being happy for myself and forgiving her in no way minimized the pain my wife has caused me and in no way tells her it's OK. It does tell her that I'm moving on with my life and she can join me if she earns a place by my side through her actions and self growth.

Edited February 25, 2015 by VeryBrokenMan

[Mrs. John Adams]

Vbm....that was moving and beautiful....and spot on.

 

I know that I want to spend the rest of my life loving John to the very best of my ability. And I know he feels the same way.

 

I know you will be at peace vbm....I think your wife is a very lucky woman.

[drifter777]

I shared this privately with another member yesterday and it really helped me to read it again. About ten years ago Steve Jobs (deceased former CEO of Apple computer) gave a speech to the graduating class at Standford. There were a couple of passages that deeply affected my thinking 10 years ago and today as well.

 

I have no doubt that some of that quote will resonate with some and I have no doubt that other parts of his speech might also help someone. I also know that many people hate Steve Jobs and this may not be for you.

 

Here is the rest of the text and there is a link to the video on YouTube :

Text of Steve Jobs' Commencement address (2005)

 

I looked up a month ago and said "Do I want to go on living like this?" and the answer was no. My state of mind and thinking is that life is too short to hold on to the anger and bitterness, it only hurts me. I choose to forgive for my own selfish interests and that has been shaped by my beliefs that Steve Jobs speech planted 10 years ago. I know I will be dead soon(or sooner than I'd like) so I'm following my heart and making choices that will make me happy.

 

Being happy for myself and forgiving her in no way minimized the pain my wife has caused me and in no way tells her it's OK. It does tell her that I'm moving on with my life and she can join me if she earns a place by my side through her actions and self growth.

Ok, I think Steve Job's was a hack who crushed his own people to take credit for things. The ridicules statement in this address sums up his life very well as he was an intolerable prick who never cared a single bit about the talented computer architects and designers who actually did all the work. He lived every day like it was his last and it made him a greedy, selfish jerk.

 

IMO - Steve Jobs was a sick narcissist and never said a quotable thing.

 

In a much larger sense it is important to ask yourself if you are happy and, when the answer is no, identify what it would take to make you happier and then set a path - and get on it - to reach your goal. BTW: you will never be happy as a state of being. It is not part of the human condition. What will make you happier is the pursuit of your goals. Its about the journey, not the end point.

[VeryBrokenMan]

IMO - Steve Jobs was a sick narcissist and never said a quotable thing.

 

Its about the journey, not the end point.

 

So when Steve Jobs said "The journey is the reward" that was not quotable?

 

I'm not here to argue about what SJ was or was not. His message resonated with me and clearly has been fundamental in my success over the years and my success to some extent in healing from this disaster.

[Furious]

I wonder why being forgiven is important to those who intentionally hurt you. It's a strange paradox, in the sense that those who choose to do something they know will hurt you and make that choice day in day out are not worried about forgiveness as long as they can deceive you.

 

If I did wrong, intentionally did wrong, I forfeit asking for forgiveness.

 

Growth and introspection, and the ability to face your own flaws outweighs forgiveness.

 

Forgiveness is earned and takes time. Often, people see forgiveness as the burden of those who've been betrayed when in reality it's the burden of those who've abused trust.

[Mrs. John Adams]

VBM..I agree....you don't have to like the man to like his message

 

Forgiveness is important to all injured parties because it promotes healing.

Asking for forgiveness is a humbling experience...because it means you have to confess and repent. Granting forgiveness puts you in a position of authority for lack for a better word.

[Raines]

MrsJA - I right hooked him!

 

 

 

You physically abused your husband?

[Mrs. John Adams]

No katielee right hooked her husband not me...lol

[Raines]

No katielee right hooked her husband not me...lol

 

I know. Imagine what would be said if her H right hooked her instead.

 

 

Guess I just don't know why physical violence from a wife seems acceptable.

[autumnnight]

This thread is at the top now, and I admit I am seeing it in a very different light right now. My betrayal is small compared to what spouses have been through; however, the idea of doing anything but crying and/or throwing darts at his picture is out of the realm of my reality right now. I've gotten I'm sorries, and probably one day they will actually matter, but not right now.

 

I have always believed forgiveness is a process that is not all at once and not linear. I now think that until one is no longer shattered, it is a process that cannot even begin.