Affairs and happy relationship

[Spark1111]

Cheating lies within the cheater, not the relationship.

 

It takes many, many choices before one cheats. They also could have chosen clearer communication, a relationship therapist and honest separation while they pursued an attraction to another.

 

That would be the mature course of action. Cheaters NEVER opt for those.

 

It just happened....I wasn't all that unhappy (until I met the AP) I don't know or I don't remember is what most betrayed partners hear....

 

And there are miserable, abusive, loveless marriages where the partners would never consider cheating on the other. Imagine that?

[atreides]

People (and experts) say that affair don’t happen in vacuum, meaning that something must be missing in the relationship.

 

Quite the opposite, as so many others have said, affairs do not need problems in the marriage. For every marriage has problems or something missing at any point in time or multiple times. One thing i always maintain is that marriage problems and affairs are two very separate islands and have nothing to do with each other.

 

The act of Cheating is within the wayward and really for them to understand. Quite a few waywards here on LS have made very dramatic and beautiful changes in their lives in healing and reflecting on their demons as to why.

 

 

I am sorry about what your fiancee has put you through. Sending strength.

[autumnnight]

One thing I believe is that my actions and choices shouldn't depend on other people's. In other words, someone doing or not doing something to or for me does not change the rightness or wrongness of MY choices.

 

So really, vacuum or no vacuum, happy marriage or troubled marriage, those circumstances do not change the wrongness of cheating. Until a person has the strength of character to chose to do right and not do wrong no matter what their spouse does or doesn't do, they really haven't gotten it.

 

I guess what I'm saying is analyzing the marriage before owning your crappy affair choice makes the idea of putting the cart before the horse the understatement of the year.

[Furious]

I don't think cheaters are ever happy in the sense that more is better. It's really not about the marriage because at any given time both spouses could justify cheating.

 

Some WS's are looking for an exit affair, most likely because they are afraid to be alone and that in itself is a huge red flag as to their character.

 

Many WS's have no intention to divorce, it's simply about more and different and an affair does wonders to an ego.

 

All relationships have ups and downs, whether it's with a spouse, a parent, a colleagues at work, children.etc.....

 

To be able to cheat, is to be able to be comfortable with deceit. It's a mindset, an ability to consciously look their spouse in the eye and not blink when they've just been with the OW/OM and were not where they said they were. These traits are deep, and probably there long before a marriage, good or bad.

[nightmare01]

I think that more often the state of the marriage is used as an excuse to cheat.

 

As you said, no relationship is perfect. In that sense then if an unhappy relationship "made" the affair happen, then all relationships would have affairs... and both partners would cheat.

 

But the relationship is just an excuse. A person CHOOSES to cheat. They have the opportunity, they believe they can get away with it, they are attracted to their potential affair partner - so they choose to cheat.

 

Frankly I think it's as simple as that. All the other stuff about relationship problems, or childhood issues is just excuses.

 

Remaining faithful is also a CHOICE. We are all tempted at times during our relationships. That temptation can be pretty compelling, and we can reason that our partner would never know, this person is available, and they are attractive. And yet many of us CHOOSE to remain faithful.

 

Both these choices can occur within the same somewhat dysfunctional relationship. The truth is that the relationship is not the problem, the issue lies in the person making the choice.

[Selfish]

I think that more often the state of the marriage is used as an excuse to cheat.

 

As you said, no relationship is perfect. In that sense then if an unhappy relationship "made" the affair happen, then all relationships would have affairs... and both partners would cheat.

 

But the relationship is just an excuse. A person CHOOSES to cheat. They have the opportunity, they believe they can get away with it, they are attracted to their potential affair partner - so they choose to cheat.

 

Frankly I think it's as simple as that. All the other stuff about relationship problems, or childhood issues is just excuses.

 

Remaining faithful is also a CHOICE. We are all tempted at times during our relationships. That temptation can be pretty compelling, and we can reason that our partner would never know, this person is available, and they are attractive. And yet many of us CHOOSE to remain faithful.

 

Both these choices can occur within the same somewhat dysfunctional relationship. The truth is that the relationship is not the problem, the issue lies in the person making the choice.

 

 

Sometimes I do think that a person chooses to cheat directly related to the marriage they are in. It doesn't excuse the affair but that same person may not have cheated had the marriage been better. Like a person who cheats after cheated on and while reconciling. (I'm not talking someone who separates from their spouse before perusing another relationship sexual or otherwise) They probably would never have stepped out if the original WS hadn't thrown the first stone.

 

BUT

 

There are better choices to make than cheating. Denying someone cheated because of the state of their marriage ignores how many different situations and marriages there are out there. But agreeing that cheating is never the right choice, or will not make things better is something I totally am on board with. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and choices. a bad marriage will never excuse cheating. But it most certainly can be a reason in some cases.

[Mr. Lucky]

Sometimes I do think that a person chooses to cheat directly related to the marriage they are in. It doesn't excuse the affair but that same person may not have cheated had the marriage been better. Like a person who cheats after cheated on and while reconciling. (I'm not talking someone who separates from their spouse before perusing another relationship sexual or otherwise) They probably would never have stepped out if the original WS hadn't thrown the first stone.

 

Could not disagree with this more.

 

Any marriage could always be "better". And the time, effort and emotional energy the WS puts into the A is often one of the roadblocks preventing this from happening.

 

There are lots of valid reasons for MC, separation and divorce. None of those reasons, including "I was cheated on", supports, justifies or explains infidelity...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Selfish]

Could not disagree with this more.

 

Any marriage could always be "better". And the time, effort and emotional energy the WS puts into the A is often one of the roadblocks preventing this from happening.

 

There are lots of valid reasons for MC, separation and divorce. None of those reasons, including "I was cheated on", supports, justifies or explains infidelity...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

how exactly do you disagree? because I don't disagree with your post.

 

I was merely saying that a problem, a big problem, in the marriage can be one of the reasons an affair was chosen. the other being poor coping skills, conflict avoidance, ect... But it doesn't excuse the affair or make it right. Because like all the people who have that same problem and chose a better means of dealing with it, so could have the cheater. Nor did I say it justifies it. Nothing makes it right either. ANd I am talking pretty big things too. NOt, some of the petty stuff made up by a WS. Like Janedoe who used to be on here and was in a sexless marriage. Her husband denying her sex was a big reason in why she chose to step out. Didn't make her decision right or justify it.

 

a reason is a reason. not always a good one. One of many often. NO less of a reason. but a part of the scenery that can create the scene. When it is given as an excuse it can put a bad taste in people's mind. Because the WS is seen as trying to misdirect blame instead of owning the fact that they in the end made the choice to do what they did.

 

If in your own experience you know you were a basically good spouse (not emotionally abusive, or physically, or absent or didn't with hold sex.) then really there is nothing to get upset about if someone else's experience is different. And if you (general you) were one or all of those things then own your own failings to the marriage while letting your WS know they need to own their own bad choices. If one wants to reconcile then request the WS get digging on finding out why exactly they thought an affair would "help" anything.

[autumnnight]

Selfish, I have found that some people understand that one can recognize cheating as a completely wrong and unjustifiable choice AND still talk about legitimate problems weakening a marriage. Some people are able to see that talking about the two subjects in a parallel fashion does NOT automatically constitute justifying.

 

Others cannot.

[Mr. Lucky]

Others cannot.

 

I get what you're saying.

 

But there are "reasons" in every marriage and, as far as I know, no problem-free relationships. So that commonality removes reasons and problems as a differentiation between marriages with a cheating spouse and one without.

 

As always, it comes down to people and choices...

 

Mr. Lucky

[turnera]

Most affairs occur in dysfunctional marriages. When at least ONE of the two has issues that haven't been resolved. I'm not blaming the BS for the affair - just saying if you really want to know the truth about it, look at BOTH sides of the street.

[Popsicle]

People (and experts) say that affair don’t happen in vacuum, meaning that something must be missing in the relationship. This is true in plenty of cases, IMO. But, in the same breath, they also say that no relationship is 100% perfect, that when two people live together, there is bound to be issues that will pop out times and again. Some issues may be insurmountable; some can be worked upon and resolved. I know many cases in happy relationship where affairs happened (including mine ) and the offending partner could provide no “apparent reason” for affairs. I also know few cases where WS said that until affair happened, she didn’t know she had so many things missing in relationship (passion, conversations etc.). She, however, returned to her previous relationship and as far as I know, they are happy. However, it did set their life plan a couple of years further.

 

In my case, I broke up with my fiancée over her month long affair. I know our relationship was pretty happy before that; and I believe I’m not projecting her in this view, because until the day I left the country, she was constantly telling me how happy she was that I was in her life. We fought the upheavals together in our 4 years relationship. However, the affair showed me very disgusting side of her that I was unaware of and her dishonesty made it impossible for reconciliation. She even threatened suicide (had to go to therapist; the only time I met her and accompanied her), and now she has to do this semester of her study again. I really don’t think she can complete her study. The girl I knew, she is no more.

 

So I definitely don’t believe that majority of affairs happen in happy marriages/relationship. But for those that did happen in generally happy relationship, I would really appreciate your views from both BS and WS side. Thank you.

 

First of all, this is a fair, honest, and reasonable post. Secondly, I congratulate you for having some dignity and the courage to dump her. You deserve more.

 

Have you ever seen the movie "Unfaithful"? Although it is fiction, that is a prime example of someone who cheated for no reason other than she was bored. I believe boredom is the reason why some people who can't ask for a better spouse still cheat. How do you prevent boredom in a LTR? I don't know. I made a thread about that earlier today. It hasn't gotten many replies.

 

Boredom does not, however, cover the marriages where their IS something wrong/missing, even if one of both spouses denies that fact.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Popsicle

[Spark1111]

Ya know, I started a thread once asking how many WS sought counseling, either IC or MC to deal with these really huge marital problems....and withholding sex was definitely alluded to by many, before they cheated on their partner.

 

Not a single one. Amazing, no?

 

It surely amazed me.

 

I asked how many sat their partner down and said, if A, B and C does not happen in this relationship, it will be a deal breaker for me and I will seek it elsewhere with someone else.

 

Not a single one.

 

So, I wonder, really wonder, was their marriage that bad? Or are they not so good at long term relationships?

 

I still wonder that....

[Popsicle]

Ya know, I started a thread once asking how many WS sought counseling, either IC or MC to deal with these really huge marital problems....and withholding sex was definitely alluded to by many, before they cheated on their partner.

 

Not a single one. Amazing, no?

 

It surely amazed me.

 

I asked how many sat their partner down and said, if A, B and C does not happen in this relationship, it will be a deal breaker for me and I will seek it elsewhere with someone else.

 

Not a single one.

 

So, I wonder, really wonder, was their marriage that bad? Or are they not so good at long term relationships?

 

I still wonder that....

 

People don't speak up about the problems in their M for various reasons, the biggest two being 1) they are actually afraid of divorce and 2) they think their spouse won't change anyway.

[turnera]

Ya know, I started a thread once asking how many WS sought counseling, either IC or MC to deal with these really huge marital problems....and withholding sex was definitely alluded to by many, before they cheated on their partner.

 

Not a single one. Amazing, no?

 

It surely amazed me.

 

I asked how many sat their partner down and said, if A, B and C does not happen in this relationship, it will be a deal breaker for me and I will seek it elsewhere with someone else.

 

Not a single one.

 

So, I wonder, really wonder, was their marriage that bad? Or are they not so good at long term relationships?

 

I still wonder that....

I have to assume you're talking about FEMALE cheaters who STOP HAVING SEX with their male partners and then cheat?

[Spark1111]

People don't speak up about the problems in their M for various reasons, the biggest two being 1) they are actually afraid of divorce and 2) they think their spouse won't change anyway.

 

Well then they have the marriage they deserve I guess.

 

Nothing can improve if you do not communicate your needs or fear divorce. How anyone can believe the cowardly act of cheating and lying and sneaking around is going to make the marriage better?

 

there is a wealth of information on the Internet on strengthening relationships and building communication.

 

isn't it easier to educate oneself and give it the old college try before you decide it's easier to lie to your spouse and sneak into hotel rooms with another dimwit?

 

jeez....

 

And I would NEVER compete with any person lame enough to do so. How pitiful is that?

 

I feel SORRY for those who believe that is the way to happiness; lying to loved ones, destroying families, competing with the unknowing spouse all to chase a romantic fantasy in car back seats, hotel rooms and work place parking lots.

 

Just yuck....

[Spark1111]

I have to assume you're talking about FEMALE cheaters who STOP HAVING SEX with their male partners and then cheat?

 

No. equal numbers of male and female WS alluded to it, but grew vague as when the sex stopped; pre-affair or during the affair.

[Selfish]

I'm not sure where some people have been reading. But I have been to many boards and I have read (here too ) many clear instances where the WS has tried everything But the thing they needed to do (leave) they did not and chose wrong. The reason the affair was an option is because of the bad state of the marriage. Peaksand valleys on here contemplated an affair because of how bad her marriage was only to discover her SO in a long term affair. Janedoe recounted over and over how she pleaded with her husband only to be told sex was not going to happen. And somehow these stories are overlooked because they don't fit a very narrowminded pov. There is such a fear of blame shifting and victim blaming that people aren't even allowed to tell where often the pain of their choice came from. And in my opinion that helps no one. acknowledging that sometimes very bad spouses get cheated on isn't saying they deserved it or the WS is excuses. what is so hard to understand about that? We all (almost all) agree that the best path to choose is not to compromise our integrity. But people choose wrong all the time.

 

What threatens people so much that even though there situation is the basic greedy WS to deny there were situations where the WS was in a desperate place? That both the WS and the BS are broken and while the WS chose cheating the BS may have chose to be abusive or what not. Everyone is so diverse. stories are so diverse. Don't simply close your eyes to a story because it doesn't fit what you want to believe. Someone else's experience won't change your own. and vice versa.

[Selfish]

I have to assume you're talking about FEMALE cheaters who STOP HAVING SEX with their male partners and then cheat?

 

Actually i think she was talking about male or female people who have a spouse who stops wanting them sexually so they look to fill that void outside their marriage. No need to get sexist. Both males and females have been known to cut a partner off. Sometimes they are the ones cheating, and sometimes there spouse cheats.

[star gaze]

I do believe that bad marriages (sexless or abusive marriage) or some marriages where one spouse is blissfully unaware of other’s unhappiness have more affairs (and NO, I don’t have stats on it, it’s my opinion only), but what about generally happy marriage? Okay, happiness is not objective entity, it may be that one partner is unhappy and other is happy who may regard their marriage as ‘good’ and may feel blindsided when affair happens. So what is the degree of unhappiness that precipitates affairs? Human mind is curious in this way, they can justify and rationalize anything, after it happens and one can point at the small bump in the BS’s personality (previously minor) and make it the whole reason for affair and accompanying deceit and dishonesty. “s/he doesn’t express emotionally to me” “s/he lied to me on this and that date and now is not trustworthy” “s/he spends more time with children than to me” etc. And in many cases, here in LS also, WS do say that their affair showed them what is lacking in their primary relationship. This is “after the fact”. Or in flip side, they realize how good they have got in their own home until the affair happens. Can anybody be that dense that they don’t exactly know what they want in the relationship until OM/OW enters their life?

 

What I’m more inclined to believe nowadays is that the cheating tendency is always there in the cheaters, albeit in the incipient form, even when they love their spouse in their own way. When the relationship deteriorates (sometimes, in their mind only), or when a new temptation happens and they think that they can get away with acting on it, affair happens. Many may not act upon it. Yes, it’s a broad sweep I’m making and will not encompass everybody, so it’s just a generalization. Of course, when sometime reality hits, the consequence explodes their little bubble in their face, they realize they can live in that marriage/relationship, afterall. I’m not saying it’s a character flaw as such because most of the cheaters are good people like all of us, but it is irrational dissonance in their logics at some point which escalated and became addictive. I do acknowledge that I may be wrong and would like to hear your views. Thank you.

[star gaze]

Jkidding: “So I tried to break to her gently that may be in future we can have relationship” I know I shouldn’t have said that as it looks like I’m offering her false hope. Making somebody live and wait and hope for inevitable is one of the worst thing we can do to other, IMO. But, even when I said that to her, she and I both knew at that time that I was just trying to console her. Yes, she said that I was just being nice to her. You see, she’s in very fragile state right now and she knows we will never meet socially, except accidently so I was just letting her go gently. Then again, who can say what will happen in the future? And she was my fiancée, I have no financial obligation to her.

[HermioneG]

I'm not sure where some people have been reading. But I have been to many boards and I have read (here too ) many clear instances where the WS has tried everything But the thing they needed to do (leave) they did not and chose wrong. The reason the affair was an option is because of the bad state of the marriage. Peaksand valleys on here contemplated an affair because of how bad her marriage was only to discover her SO in a long term affair. Janedoe recounted over and over how she pleaded with her husband only to be told sex was not going to happen. And somehow these stories are overlooked because they don't fit a very narrowminded pov. There is such a fear of blame shifting and victim blaming that people aren't even allowed to tell where often the pain of their choice came from. And in my opinion that helps no one. acknowledging that sometimes very bad spouses get cheated on isn't saying they deserved it or the WS is excuses. what is so hard to understand about that? We all (almost all) agree that the best path to choose is not to compromise our integrity. But people choose wrong all the time.

 

What threatens people so much that even though there situation is the basic greedy WS to deny there were situations where the WS was in a desperate place? That both the WS and the BS are broken and while the WS chose cheating the BS may have chose to be abusive or what not. Everyone is so diverse. stories are so diverse. Don't simply close your eyes to a story because it doesn't fit what you want to believe. Someone else's experience won't change your own. and vice versa.

 

 

Hmm.

 

I am years past my spouse's affair. I have read infidelity boards and books for years.

 

My impression is the opposite of yours. The literature supports the overbenefitted spouse as being more likely to cheat ( the one who is giving less to the marriage, you can check Glass, et al for the reference).

 

I think there are people who do cheat because they have crappy coping skills and they may be in an unsatisfying marriage. I also think those people are he minority of cases. There are far more waywards who rewrite marital history after embarking on the affair because of the psychological contrast effect, but when discovered, snap back to reality. At the end of the day, they cheat because they have a personal problem, not a marital one. Healthy people either work towards positive change, or they leave the marriage. They don't introduce deception.

 

At the end of the day, infidelity is a personal problem, not a marital one. It just is. It's always the wrong choice. It always hurts people, the waywards and affair partners included.

 

I think the scenario that was my marriage is far more common. A spouse with unresolved issues from childhood, with an endless need for external validation. A hole in his bucket, so to speak. Our marriage and family made him very, very happy, but because of how he was wired, he was always looking for the next affirmation high. Poor coping skills.

 

We do not control other people. We are not that powerful. Happiness is an inside job, and it is a choice. I am a happy person with my life choices, and the actions I take every day. But I also know, and have known from an early age, that I cannot expect other people to "make" me happy, or "make" me feel good. I can engage in a positive relationship which may bring me happiness, but I have to be an active participant.

 

I dunno. Maybe because I was raised by a narcissist and watched and was the victim of her issues, I can see how it is supposed to work very clearly, and what does not work.

 

I know there are some people in terrible marriages. There are betrayed spouses who are awful people. I understand that. But at the end of the day, no one deserves to be cheated on. it's never okay. And it hurts the wayward's character to participate in such a thing. It's not a good strategy.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm not sure where some people have been reading. But I have been to many boards and I have read (here too ) many clear instances where the WS has tried everything But the thing they needed to do (leave) they did not and chose wrong. The reason the affair was an option is because of the bad state of the marriage. Peaksand valleys on here contemplated an affair because of how bad her marriage was only to discover her SO in a long term affair. Janedoe recounted over and over how she pleaded with her husband only to be told sex was not going to happen. And somehow these stories are overlooked because they don't fit a very narrowminded pov. There is such a fear of blame shifting and victim blaming that people aren't even allowed to tell where often the pain of their choice came from. And in my opinion that helps no one. acknowledging that sometimes very bad spouses get cheated on isn't saying they deserved it or the WS is excuses. what is so hard to understand about that? We all (almost all) agree that the best path to choose is not to compromise our integrity. But people choose wrong all the time.

 

I don't think anyone has disagreed that some who cheat - including those you mention - were in awful marriages. Additionally, some who cheat were in good marriages. And probably the majority of WS were in average marriages with the problems we've all experienced.

 

What I don't understand is how that cross section ties infidelity to the condition of the marriage rather than the choice of the individual?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Edit - wrote this before I read HermoineG's response above. Much more clearly stated than mine, couldn't be better said.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Mr. Lucky

[BetrayedH]

Ya know, I started a thread once asking how many WS sought counseling, either IC or MC to deal with these really huge marital problems....and withholding sex was definitely alluded to by many, before they cheated on their partner.

 

Not a single one. Amazing, no?

 

It surely amazed me.

 

I asked how many sat their partner down and said, if A, B and C does not happen in this relationship, it will be a deal breaker for me and I will seek it elsewhere with someone else.

 

Not a single one.

 

So, I wonder, really wonder, was their marriage that bad? Or are they not so good at long term relationships?

 

I still wonder that....

 

And this is one reason why a bad marriage is not really a "reason" but an "excuse." There were other options but the WS chose not to avail themselves of them. That's an internal problem.

 

After my wife had inexplicably said she might want to separate but "wasn't sure," I discovered her 13 month affair. I kept it under my hat for a few days while I decided what to do (spoke to an attorney, hired a PI for evidence). But then on one particularly stressful morning, she shouted at me that she was "trying." I couldn't help but ask if that's what she was doing with the OM at the hotel just three nights prior. Trying my ass.

 

A bad spouse or marriage is just an excuse for an affair, and a lame one at that.

[autumnnight]

I get what you're saying.

 

But there are "reasons" in every marriage and, as far as I know, no problem-free relationships. So that commonality removes reasons and problems as a differentiation between marriages with a cheating spouse and one without.

 

As always, it comes down to people and choices...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Uh, yeah. If you'll read objectively you'll see I agree with you. The state of the marriage and the choice to cheat are two separate things. Cheating is wrong no matter what the state of the marriage.