Mother In Law: Through The Looking Glass

[jm2013]

There is support and there is support. I'd visit my kid in jail if he murdered someone. But that's a world away from telling him he's innocent.

 

I'm very honest with my kids when they screw up. And I think it would be a grave disservice to them to never express disappointment and let them grow up thinking it's the rest of the world that has the problem.

 

 

I agree with anika99. I bet your wife was feeding your mother in law some bs about you to start drumming up the resentment to wrangle her in her corner when the bottom fell out. This is probably a common theme amongst WS's.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I agree with anika99. I bet your wife was feeding your mother in law some bs about you to start drumming up the resentment to wrangle her in her corner when the bottom fell out. This is probably a common theme amongst WS's.

 

Perhaps. But I have to blow my own horn a little here. Her family absolutely loves me. With the exception of her mother ( who DID actually show me a lot of love prior ) the big family joke was about how I was the one who had to put up with my wife's bad habits. ( slob, bad cook, etc )

 

She is by far the more high maintenance of the two of us, and is the butt of a lot of family jokes.

 

So what I'm saying is if my "mother-in-law" believed I was such a bad husband, than it even further solidifies her detachment from reality where her daughter is concerned.

 

I think inside, she knows the score, and probably feels lucky I didn't dump her daughter on her head publicly. But she's too proud to show me any of that.

 

Lesson learned... the people at your wedding are just there for the free food.

[RightThere]

I agree with anika99. I bet your wife was feeding your mother in law some bs about you to start drumming up the resentment to wrangle her in her corner when the bottom fell out. This is probably a common theme amongst WS's.

 

Oh yeah.

 

While my WW was out banging the community, she was constantly building up her case with her family about how awful I was as a husband.

 

Example: Before D-Day we had a miscarriage. Spent the first day at the hospital. Second day, she needed a follow-up. I asked her if she wanted me to come again. She said "no". I probably should have insisted, but didn't. Anyways, she proceeded to tell all her family that I abandoned her on the second day and that I didn't provide any emotional support from the miscarriage. All the while, she asked her OM to come to the hospital to spend time with her.

 

After D-Day, I never fully exposed the depths of her infidelity, but I was viewed as "part of the problem" by a lot of her family.

 

They've since come around, but one shocking thing I realized about being the BS, no one was ever really wanting to support me. Not my WW, not her family, and even my own family was more worried about the damaged "image" our family now had.

 

Nothing makes you more alone than getting cheated on.

[Radu]

Perhaps. But I have to blow my own horn a little here. Her family absolutely loves me. With the exception of her mother ( who DID actually show me a lot of love prior ) the big family joke was about how I was the one who had to put up with my wife's bad habits. ( slob, bad cook, etc )

 

She is by far the more high maintenance of the two of us, and is the butt of a lot of family jokes.

 

So what I'm saying is if my "mother-in-law" believed I was such a bad husband, than it even further solidifies her detachment from reality where her daughter is concerned.

 

I think inside, she knows the score, and probably feels lucky I didn't dump her daughter on her head publicly. But she's too proud to show me any of that.

 

Lesson learned... the people at your wedding are just there for the free food.

 

After reading this thread and the ones you also posted about this i have to ask ... will you stay after the kids are out of the house ?

 

Because i sure as hell would not.

And i would make the affairs public [with proof], if the divorce wasn't amicable.

[autumnnight]

Trustedandbusted I can understand your anger and disappointment. Parental love doesn't mean glossing over your kid's bad choices. Real love means calling them out on wrong behavior. No matter what you did or didn't do your wife cheating was plain wrong and a mother who excuses her daughter's cheating is not much of a mother in my opinion. I love my kids so much but if one of them royally screwed up you better believe I'd call them out. I'd hold their hand the whole way back and support their effort to change but I wouldn't pat their hand and condone it.

[Bryanp]

I have got to ask: Why in the world would you stay with a wife who cheated on you and put your health at risk for STD's 90 days into the marriage during your honeymoon period? You could have easily filed for an annulment.

 

The fact that you accepted this I am sure set the stage for the next affair years later. I am sure that your wife knew down deep that the fact that she could cheat on you during the first 3 months of your marriage and you stayed - meant that you would forgive her down the road again and she was correct.

 

I do not mean to be a downer but I would not be surprised if there were more than just these two affairs. Have you thought about having your children tested for paternity?

[TrustedthenBusted]

I have got to ask: Why in the world would you stay with a wife who cheated on you and put your health at risk for STD's 90 days into the marriage during your honeymoon period? You could have easily filed for an annulment.

 

The fact that you accepted this I am sure set the stage for the next affair years later. I am sure that your wife knew down deep that the fact that she could cheat on you during the first 3 months of your marriage and you stayed - meant that you would forgive her down the road again and she was correct.

 

I do not mean to be a downer but I would not be surprised if there were more than just these two affairs. Have you thought about having your children tested for paternity?

 

I didn't find out about the first one until 8 years after it ended. By then, we had kids and that complicates things.

 

If i found out before we had kids I would have left, no question.

[TrustedthenBusted]

After reading this thread and the ones you also posted about this i have to ask ... will you stay after the kids are out of the house ?

 

.

 

I truly don't know. I'm complaining, but also working hard on R still. I would like to be one of those couples who makes it. But we'll see

[lolablue17]

I Think you raised a great point. I think you are even underestimating what has happened.

 

A mother has permission to do anything for her daughter. ANYTHING! But she also must take full responsibility for her choices.

 

You wife's mother has betrayed you. She was pretending to be your family but in the moment of truth she behaved as your enemy, a bit of a Trojan horse in a sence that - If you already know someone is your enemy, you can't get hurt, because you have no expectations. But from her you've expected minimum of decency and integrity.

 

She chose to be against you and to throw all the blame on you. She CHOSE to be your enemy. It's her decision. You just have to realize that.

 

When her visits were once every few month it's good that you took a decision to keep the peace. But now, If she's going to visit a lot, you should talk first to your wife, and then to your mother in law.

 

You should tell your wife that her mother chose her way to be your enemy. You don't judge for that, but by her decision she lost all chances for you to treat her otherwise than your enemy. Tell your wife you have zero trust in her (in her mother), and from your point of view, she's done. You are not going to allow her to come for long visits, and not frequent visits. You insist that she is not and never will be a part of your family.

 

For the sake of your wife and for your children you can bare very low frequent visits, and if your wife wants more, she can take the kids and visit her as much as she wants, but her mother is not welcomed in your house.

 

After that, meet the mother and tell her the same. You don't judge her for her choices, but she must and will take responsibility for them. tell her that you want to keep it only between you two (three), as long if she cooperate.

 

tell her that you don't want to see her anymore, and it's best for her to deal with it. This is your choice and she has to deal with it, the same as you dealt with hers...

Edited December 14, 2014 by lolablue17

[Selfish]

Has you or your wife sat down and had a full discussion on this? Silence can build resentment. Sometimes communication helps. And you can even take her to a MC. At least it would show her you are willing to repair this (because you say you had a good relationship before)

 

As to staying for the kids. Kids are important. I think that as long as a person isn't biding their time for the kids but actually putting in an effort with a remorseful wayward for the kids it can be a good thing. There is nothing wrong with a "wait and see" aproach. A check in when you become empty nesters to see if the marriage is still working for you.

 

But if people are biding there time fighting and it is strained because of that and unhappiness. Leaving is far healthier for the children.

 

Kids are smart.

[fellini]

When DDay hit my WS wanted the usual minimal collateral damage. No family, no workplace reveals.

 

About 8 months later into trickle truthing aftermath, on Christmas day, in fact, I called it quits and told my WS it was time to separate because working together wasn't working. We were with her entire family last Christmas so they were all told. Short story is they all supported her (which is fine if by support we mean, not judge too harshly) but the thing is, they ALL used this new information to try to kill what little was left of our recovery/reconciliation process. They wanted to take the structured separation and make it STICK.

 

I remember reading some pretty ugly emails sent from MIL to WS about how I was to blame for everything. WS always rejected those and took full responsibility, but even then, they wouldn't accept HER own saying she was TOTALLY unequivocally responsible for the A. They tried to convince her I brainwashed her - or was "blackmailing" her to adopt that position.

 

We are approaching the one year 100% NC of all her family members as far as I am concerned. I do not need to rethink this. Not being blood is not an excuse to turn on someone who has been "family" for - in my case - 17 years. I saw this family for what they were (it's not like they were prizes to begin with) and we came to a clear agreement and understanding that I want ZERO to do with them for the rest of my life. Or theirs, which ever comes first. And actually I do not miss them, nor do I care what they think, or why. I ask my wife to respect my desire never to speak of them at home, or ever try to get me to change my position. All contact with her family has to be outside our home and they are no longer invited to share birthdays, or any kind of celebrations even though our daughter is being kept in the dark about what happened.

Edited December 14, 2014 by fellini

[merrmeade]

Perhaps. But I have to blow my own horn a little here. Her family absolutely loves me. With the exception of her mother ( who DID actually show me a lot of love prior ) the big family joke was about how I was the one who had to put up with my wife's bad habits. ( slob, bad cook, etc )

This is really it and I can feel the pain of your 'auxilliary' betrayal. You felt loved and valued by her at one time, and she was probably very good at making you feel that way. It meant something to you that she cared for you and you felt betrayed and hurt by her cruel pettiness. It's worse because she really should know better. It's its own sadness, which you cannot sweep under the rug — for your own sake.

 

Sadly, it sounds like the mother/daughter relationship has blinded even her professional clarity. Relationships of mothers and daughters who are very close and communicate everything tends to trump every other. She's probably not holding her daughter accountable and blindly wants to protect her. I hope I would not do this, but I understand because my daughter knows she can always talk to me and I will never betray her trust, for example.

 

I won't repeat what Lolablue17 has said very well:

I think you are even underestimating what has happened. A mother has permission to do anything for her daughter. ANYTHING! But she also must take full responsibility for her choices.

 

You wife's mother has betrayed you. She was pretending to be your family but in the moment of truth she behaved as your enemy, a bit of a Trojan horse in a sence that - If you already know someone is your enemy, you can't get hurt, because you have no expectations. But from her you've expected minimum of decency and integrity. She chose to be against you and to throw all the blame on you. She CHOSE to be your enemy. It's her decision. You just have to realize that.

 

When her visits were once every few month it's good that you took a decision to keep the peace. But now, If she's going to visit a lot, you should talk first to your wife, and then to your mother in law.

 

You should tell your wife that her mother chose her way to be your enemy. You don't judge for that, but by her decision she lost all chances for you to treat her otherwise than your enemy. Tell your wife you have zero trust in her (in her mother), and from your point of view, she's done. You are not going to allow her to come for long visits, and not frequent visits. You insist that she is not and never will be a part of your family.

 

For the sake of your wife and for your children you can bare very low frequent visits, and if your wife wants more, she can take the kids and visit her as much as she wants, but her mother is not welcomed in your house.

 

After that, meet the mother and tell her the same. You don't judge her for her choices, but she must and will take responsibility for them. tell her that you want to keep it only between you two (three), as long if she cooperate.

 

tell her that you don't want to see her anymore, and it's best for her to deal with it. This is your choice and she has to deal with it, the same as you dealt with hers...

This is really helpful. He's laid out how she hurt you in terms of your relationship with her and how you must communicate your needs. It's true. You deserve this.

[beatcuff]

And on top of it, she feels no remorse because she has no idea she's done anything wrong. In her world, this was my fault.

 

 

you are forgetting one small piece --- her daughter confided in her about you and your marriage. she knows 'stuff'. as in why.

 

 

this thread is another example of misdirected anger: you forgive (or at least accept it: by staying together) your WS yet retain anger v MIL.

 

 

my brother had an A while W was pregnant with twins. W was my GF's best friend, they did almost everything together. cant get much worse than that. and while I made it clear TO HIM about how wrong it was, I supported HIS decision because he is my brother (and as others have eloquently stated) S come and go but brothers and sisters will always be brothers and sisters. and now as a father: my children will ALWAYS be my children.

 

 

and for those that think parents should 'disown' their child for 'cheating' (in all its forms) a/k/a chose BS over their own --- I would not them as my parent.

Edited December 17, 2014 by beatcuff
clarification

[Minnie09]

I am not saying disown them, if they damage the mariage and their family life and kids by being dorks, but honestly, even as a parent you know what is right and what is wrong. I expect an honest statement from my parents or parents-in-law, not just pampering and compassion for their own kin based on the fact that they're blood-related. That's just ignorant. If they cheat, gamble, abuse, drink, overspend or WHATEVER, and if that behavior ruins their family and MY grand-kids (not that I have any yet, but just saying......) - I will NOT be on their side. I will support the person who deserves my support, and if it is my daughter-in-law, then she will receive my support and my son will get a piece of my mind. Why blameshift? How does that do any good?

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

this thread is another example of misdirected anger: you forgive (or at least accept it: by staying together) your WS yet retain anger v MIL.

 

 

I see your point, but I really don't think my anger is misdirected. In fact, I don't think it's anger at all. I'm not mad. If anything, I've just pulled back my investment in that relationship, because I see that the investment isn't mutual.

 

I haven't forgiven my wife's mother for this, because she doesn't seem to feel like she's done anything wrong. It's just who she is. So, I accept it with the knowledge that it will never change, and is not worth further investment.

 

As far as "accepting" my wife's behavior.... far from it. Reconciling is not an automatic acceptance. If anything, it's a renegotiation of the contract, because the first one turned out to be for sh@t. But I am making THIS investment because the stakes are infinitely larger. But I am by no means holding my wife's grudge against her mother. I am 100 times more disappointed in my wife than her mother.

 

The whole thing only resurfaced now that her mother is moving here. I think because she's really the only person who knows, I'm now feeling a little bit like my little bubble down here is tainted. But even then, I sometimes feel like it's my wife who should be feeling this way, not me.

[Selfish]

I see your point, but I really don't think my anger is misdirected. In fact, I don't think it's anger at all. I'm not mad. If anything, I've just pulled back my investment in that relationship, because I see that the investment isn't mutual.

 

I haven't forgiven my wife's mother for this, because she doesn't seem to feel like she's done anything wrong. It's just who she is. So, I accept it with the knowledge that it will never change, and is not worth further investment.

 

As far as "accepting" my wife's behavior.... far from it. Reconciling is not an automatic acceptance. If anything, it's a renegotiation of the contract, because the first one turned out to be for sh@t. But I am making THIS investment because the stakes are infinitely larger. But I am by no means holding my wife's grudge against her mother. I am 100 times more disappointed in my wife than her mother.

 

The whole thing only resurfaced now that her mother is moving here. I think because she's really the only person who knows, I'm now feeling a little bit like my little bubble down here is tainted. But even then, I sometimes feel like it's my wife who should be feeling this way, not me.

 

You don't have to be invested in people to be civil and even friendly. And why would your wife be feeling "this way" and how do you know she isn't? It is her mother. From what you said, she doesn't agree with her mother on this topic. But I hardly think she should want to toss her out of the family because of it.

 

People are forever encouraging people to cut off family. A far better and more mature way is to have good boundaries in place with family. And let them be known. Then, if the family member continues to cross those boundaries you "cut them off" until the show they have learned better boundaries.

[TrustedthenBusted]

You don't have to be invested in people to be civil and even friendly.

 

 

Agreed. I'm quite civil and friendly with my wife's mother. The only difference is I know where I stand with her, where before, I thought I rated higher.

 

And why would your wife be feeling "this way" and how do you know she isn't? It is her mother. From what you said, she doesn't agree with her mother on this topic. But I hardly think she should want to toss her out of the family because of it.

 

My wife regrets telling her mother about it now, and has for awhile. So my guess is that having someone else in the bubble who DOES know, and may be constantly evaluating our progress might make her feel uncomfortable. She ( wife ) has said in the past she enjoys her mothers visits less and less, because of this evaluation feeling. TO be fair, her mother hasn't said a word about it in years.

 

 

People are forever encouraging people to cut off family. A far better and more mature way is to have good boundaries in place with family. And let them be known. Then, if the family member continues to cross those boundaries you "cut them off" until the show they have learned better boundaries.

 

I'm with you here. I've essentially let it go. Only thing that's changed are the rules. Now that I know where I stand with her, I will take the next opportunity that presents itself ( and it will ) to let her know where she stands with me. This can be done without incident I think.

 

My wife feels a little guilty for being the catalyst of all this, but also understands where I'm coming from.

[Selfish]

Agreed. I'm quite civil and friendly with my wife's mother. The only difference is I know where I stand with her, where before, I thought I rated higher.

 

 

 

My wife regrets telling her mother about it now, and has for awhile. So my guess is that having someone else in the bubble who DOES know, and may be constantly evaluating our progress might make her feel uncomfortable. She ( wife ) has said in the past she enjoys her mothers visits less and less, because of this evaluation feeling. TO be fair, her mother hasn't said a word about it in years.

 

 

 

 

I'm with you here. I've essentially let it go. Only thing that's changed are the rules. Now that I know where I stand with her, I will take the next opportunity that presents itself ( and it will ) to let her know where she stands with me. This can be done without incident I think.

 

My wife feels a little guilty for being the catalyst of all this, but also understands where I'm coming from.

 

lol, okay, I was getting the idea that things were a lot more "she is dead to me" like off of how I met your mother. I do think letting her know how you felt upon her unwanted intrusion into your marriage is a good idea. Puts the ball in her court to either get defensive or own her unhelpful meddling.

[beatcuff]

I see your point, but I really don't think my anger is misdirected. In fact, I don't think it's anger at all. I'm not mad. If anything, I've just pulled back my investment in that relationship, because I see that the investment isn't mutual. /

 

 

we use sound bites for ease of discussion. you bought into the 'son' in the son-in-law when in fact you (and all spouses) are the man that is married to my daughter. you never hear the latter phase. but you do hear sometimes when dad/mom remarries: that is my dad's wife not my step-mom.

 

 

I was told by my mother-in-law early on in my relationship that my GF (at the time) would ALWAYS be her daughter and she would support her over me EVERY time. did that stop me from having a good relationship with my MIL... no. she clearly let me know what the boundaries of our relationship would be. it will be something I will pass along.

 

 

you now know as well. you should still work within, while realizing it will never be more.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I see your point, but I really don't think my anger is misdirected. In fact, I don't think it's anger at all. I'm not mad. If anything, I've just pulled back my investment in that relationship, because I see that the investment isn't mutual. /

 

 

you bought into the 'son' in the son-in-law when in fact you (and all spouses) are the man that is married to my daughter. you never hear the latter phase. but you do hear sometimes when dad/mom remarries: that is my dad's wife not my step-mom.

 

 

You know, with her father, it is completely different. ( they are divorced ) I truly feel that he has embraced me as a son, and would totally have my back if he knew the story. He's proven time and time again that he is well aware of some of his daughters faults, and has praised my ability to work with her through them. We're very close.

 

Now perhaps I've bought into the hype with him too, but I don't see that as a bad thing ( not that you are suggesting it is ) I believed what I said on the altar, and I believe what THEY all said too.

 

Clearly, some meant it, and others did not.

 

What matters is that I meant what I said, and I said what I meant.

[Jkidding]

Hmm. So as i understand she cheated on you AND her mother fully support her ? Did u consider just to tell her f .. Off. Or even something more insulting like your daugther is a whore and i wonder from whom she learned that. Your mother in law just riding you because she senses you are soft natured man who will not fight back. Remember you are the man of the house and can tell her to pack anytime you dont want to see her. Doesnt matter how smart she is or how many books she wrote. Just put her in her place : do you have anything to lose ?

Wise men do not conflict at every opportunity possible but when there is no way out of it... Act like a cornered animals do. Otherwise you will loose respect both from your wife and her mother (i dont think her mother has any respect for u, judging by her reaction)

Edited December 21, 2014 by Jkidding

[fellini]

Exactly what I have done. My MIL is not welcome in our house any longer. And she, and my SIL's understand this too. They are no longer welcome in our house.

 

My MIL lives a block away. My SILs 600 KM. So when they come to visit, all interaction between my WS and our daughter take place in the MIL's home or outside somewhere. This is not difficult to do. I don't wish to see, hear, or speak about them. They are phantoms.

 

And it's rather easy to do this. You just do it.

 

And I didn't even feel it necessary to speak to MIL about this. It was made clear for all concerned I wanted nothing more to do with the lot. And like any NC, this is not something that I need to say face to face.

 

If however you start to feel bad about it, or that it is too extreme, well then you are being inauthentic, and should probably not go NC.

 

 

For the sake of your wife and for your children you can bare very low frequent visits, and if your wife wants more, she can take the kids and visit her as much as she wants, but her mother is not welcomed in your house.

 

After that, meet the mother and tell her the same. You don't judge her for her choices, but she must and will take responsibility for them. tell her that you want to keep it only between you two (three), as long if she cooperate.

 

tell her that you don't want to see her anymore, and it's best for her to deal with it. This is your choice and she has to deal with it, the same as you dealt with hers...

[sidney2718]

Hmm. So as i understand she cheated on you AND her mother fully support her ? Did u consider just to tell her f .. Off. Or even something more insulting like your daugther is a whore and i wonder from whom she learned that. Your mother in law just riding you because she senses you are soft natured man who will not fight back. Remember you are the man of the house and can tell her to pack anytime you dont want to see her. Doesnt matter how smart she is or how many books she wrote. Just put her in her place : do you have anything to lose ?

Wise men do not conflict at every opportunity possible but when there is no way out of it... Act like a cornered animals do. Otherwise you will loose respect both from your wife and her mother (i dont think her mother has any respect for u, judging by her reaction)

 

I think everyone should calm down on this. It is perfectly natural for a parent to move to protect their child, even if they know their child is wrong. The MIL may well have had some strong words with her daughter but not where the OP would hear them. That may be one reason why the OP's WW is a bit uncomfortable around her mother.

[Jkidding]

I think everyone should calm down on this. It is perfectly natural for a parent to move to protect their child, even if they know their child is wrong. The MIL may well have had some strong words with her daughter but not where the OP would hear them. That may be one reason why the OP's WW is a bit uncomfortable around her mother.

 

You can't rationalize everything! Or make assumptions that they had some strong words between daughter and her mother. He has to act on information he has and not on what-ifs. And picture he has is very very insulting. Imagine: you have daughter who cheated on her husband. And you wrote this nonsense email where you say you support your daughter. And her husband is "trying to be nice with you". Sooner or later you will think, hey, he can not stand for himself, how can I trust him with my daughter? Sure it does not have to be "F" words. But the man has to clearly state, that he does not agree with MIL's opinion AND in the end of the day it is HIS and his wife relationship therefore MILs opinion is secondary ... at best. And whatever he and his wife decide MIL will just have to live with that. Well, F words sometimes are very handy therefore if he wants to use them, let it be - he was insulted!

P.S. by the way her mother has reacted I would say she is not very smart at all. Probably she is self-righteous person, who despise her son in law.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Jkidding

[Selfish]

You can't rationalize everything! Or make assumptions that they had some strong words between daughter and her mother. He has to act on information he has and not on what-ifs. And picture he has is very very insulting. Imagine: you have daughter who cheated on her husband. And you wrote this nonsense email where you say you support your daughter. And her husband is "trying to be nice with you". Sooner or later you will think, hey, he can not stand for himself, how can I trust him with my daughter? Sure it does not have to be "F" words. But the man has to clearly state, that he does not agree with MIL's opinion AND in the end of the day it is HIS and his wife relationship therefore MILs opinion is secondary ... at best. And whatever he and his wife decide MIL will just have to live with that. Well, F words sometimes are very handy therefore if he wants to use them, let it be - he was insulted!

P.S. by the way her mother has reacted I would say she is not very smart at all. Probably she is self-righteous person, who despise her son in law.

 

I think the point was that your post was far overboard to what the OP said the mother did. She was doing what is one very common train of thought in some sort of knee jerk defense of her daughter. saying he had to own his contribution to the affair ie his faults in the marriage (a lot of people buy into this thinking). Not that she actually encouraged her daughter to cheat or anything.