When it rains it pours

[Leigh 87]

I don't believe in waiting X amount of time before dating again. I am the biggest advocate for getting back out there, maybe before you feel quite ready to go, just to get yourself into the groove and remind yourself what dating is like. If it were anyone else in this thread, possibly even Leigh, I'd say go for it! Get out there and try again! But this is your thread, Venus, and you are a special case.

 

It's not clear to me that you can date casually. You describe your situations with R and A as casual, and indeed they were, but your feelings were anything but. By your own admission male attention is your drug of choice, and as soon as you get a fix you're a goner. You don't remain detached or ambivalent about anyone. As soon as you get a hint they might be into you you are all in, and then it turns into a game of trying desperately to mask your disproportionately strong feelings until they give hints that they feel the same way. Your ex was the only guy I've encountered on these threads who seemed to reciprocate, but in a way that suggested he was very impulsive too (he said "I love you" after six weeks, which was a strong indicator to me of his own issues). I think it's strange that you've been unable to retain any man's interest and attention in a conventional, everyday dating relationship, for a very long time. Why is it that your most successful relationship has been with a man who almost never saw you?

 

Your male attention addiction is reason enough to put the brakes on dating for a while. Even if it wasn't, all the talk about how hurt and broken you are, plus the wishing you were married to an ex who STALKED YOU, isn't a red flag so much as a solar flare that you are in a terrible mental and emotional place. Your therapist can no doubt offer better insight than we can, but if it's evident to the internet that you aren't doing well, the men you meet in person will pick up on it quickly too.

 

 

I also share this issue. I love attention too. I grew up with buck teeth and pimples and chubby. I was told I was too ugly to dats my entire life. Cue now; after braces, weight loss and a slimhourglass figure- SANS acne- and I became hooked on the regular compliments and male attention.

 

I relate a lot to Venus. Despite our vastly different life circumstances with me a lowly med student and her a full time career woman.

 

In terms of getting back out there again... that always depends on the circumstances. I left my ex because he turned out to be a drug addict. He stopped and has a good job and wanted a stable life but in the end, he felt life felt worthless without drugs. Refused to get help.

 

I am too worried about my exes well being to go out and... date. We were head over heels and had a rare connection. So dating around anytime soon just feels... not quite right.

 

We really thought we would grow old together.

 

I don't believe getting straight back on the dating wagon again is ideal for us all. Although I cannot wait for some harmless flirting. Dating and being intimate still feels so off to me. My situation is very different to that of Venus's; my parents loved him. Him and I lived together. We have 2 dogs. Had. They are now his:sick:

 

I feel positive and happy and not depressed at all right now. But dating so soon after severing ties with a true connection? Really?

 

I can see how dating again could be beneficial when you were never totally head over heels with an ex.... I have dated the day I ended it with my last guy. But when I give my whole heart away, I don't even FEEL single entirely, for a good month or 2 post break up.

[Leigh 87]

Just going on a date for you is like an alcoholic saying "what's wrong with just one little drink..."

 

A lot is wrong with it.

 

I don't think she was even that into the prior men... she was in love with the idea of being in love, I think.

 

Plus she knows she wants kids and marriage at her age of 33. So shs actually has reasons to get serious about finding someone. I can see why she way the way that she was.

[Kamille]

I feel that one of the things that gets in the way of you paying attention to men's actions, Venus, is the amount of time you spend rationalizing your decisions - be it to yourself or to us here.

 

Whatever you decide to do about dating - stick to it and avoid spending too much time justifying it whether to yourself or others. You get lost in your justifications. You need to work on this penchant for rationalization of yours.

 

If it turns out it was a bad decision, accept you made a mistake and move on. (This is really hard for perfectionists. We prefer, instead, to find ways to "save face" by justifying our mistakes as not being mistakes).

 

Also, as a caution: work on recognizing and accepting rejection. Being rejected by one person doesn't mean you are unlovable. It just means that person and you don't have matching goals. I hope that you will have an easier time recognizing compatibility and incompatibly by accepting that rejection has little to do with you. As someone who's read a few of your threads, I feel you go out of your way to avoid feeling rejected. To do this, you end up rationalizing poor behaviour from lukewarm men. Rejection is no big deal. It happens to everyone and is part of the dating game. Be quicker at learning when to fold.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Kamille

[Sometymeswhy]

I think you should keep your date with the new guy Venus. Going out again will give you a little boost after the NOLA guy debacle.

 

Please don't sleep with him right away. Take a long time to process any red flags before you have sex and get attached to someone who you know is wrong for you. Based on your experience...they're poor communicators, they invite you over to their place on first date, their actions don't mesh with words, they tell you what you want to hear, overly complimentary early on, clashing lifestyles. They don't change after you have sex.

 

You knew this guy R was a player from day one and he dumped you after sex. You suspected that NOLA guy was not compatible either but had sex too soon before you got all the info you needed from him and it was too late. Emotions involved. Incidentally his involvement with this Tamara person and other dancing partners is sketchy and should give you additional closure.

It's good that you're seeing a counselor who can help you focus and stop spinning and trust your gut feelings.

 

Keep us posted on how that goes.

[venusishername]

Venus, this is terrible. How do you think it's ok to use another person to help you feel better about yourself? You admit above that you are broken (!!!) and that a lot of your motivation is to match the moving on you believe your ex is doing. How on earth is this the right thing to do to a new guy who has no idea how UN-ready you are? You have not done any of the work on yourself that is needed for you to be a good, healthy partner.

 

More than anything you've written, this disregard for another person truly dismays me.

Please don't say that, I don't have malicious intentions. I am not using him to feel better. I'm not trying to "match" what my ex is doing. I genuinely would like to put myself out there and get to know this person and just give it a chance. I'm not maliciously disregarding him, please be fair. I'm trying to move on. Slowly. I told him up front about my situation. I do need time, but I truly think it would do me good to just accept a date. He already knows I'm just getting out of a relationship. I'm not latching on to the idea of a relationship with him or clinging to any expectation or even thinking of how I can get back at my ex. No! I just think it would be nice to actually go out on a date with a man who lives in my own city. To me that's all I need to focus on from here on out, meeting new people and dating in my own city! I just spent a year in a LDR and I couldn't even date my own boyfriend. I think going on a date is ok.

 

 

Your ex was the only guy I've encountered on these threads who seemed to reciprocate, but in a way that suggested he was very impulsive too (he said "I love you" after six weeks, which was a strong indicator to me of his own issues). I think it's strange that you've been unable to retain any man's interest and attention in a conventional, everyday dating relationship, for a very long time. Why is it that your most successful relationship has been with a man who almost never saw you?

Hm. Well, the reason why is because I never did write here about the 'good guys' who pursued me over the past couple years and I dumped. Now I wish I hadn't! I chose to end a couple of dating prospects that could have turned into relationships with men who live here. I don't think there's anything WRONG with me at all. I just chose to give my attention to the wrong people. I thought we have been over this. I chose not to. Believe me I've wondered the same thing. I think it's the people I chose to "pursue" and the ones I let go were in hindsight, great boyfriend material.

Why did I let them go? Because I thought they were "boring" or at the time I was too critical and thought one of them was too messy or something like that. One of them I just wasn't emotionally ready, but now I wish I had given it more time. Commitment phobia on my part. I can think of three men that I've dated over the past couple years that could have definitely become normal, every day relationships, and they wanted that with me.... but I ended them.

 

 

So, the reason that I think the most successful relationship I've had in 5 years is with a person who hardly ever saw me is because, I pushed a handful of good guys here away who I could have had that with, I spent time in half-arsed and lukewarm relationships or casual situations and spent a lot of time trying to justify and rationalize, and.... was attracted to the "bad boys" instead. Mistake. Bad boy means unavailable in any sense of the word, including distance. My ex was not a player or just after sex or that kind of bad boy, but like Blue Eye said, he positioned himself in a way he was just out of reach, and kept himself there. That's why, Lana. Because the choices I made. Men who know me well, for example guy friends, etc. say they can't understand why I'd be single, they think I'm a great catch, I'd be a great mom and wife, etc. So there's nothing THAT wrong with me that would prevent a normal, every day relationship from happening :(I just chose to pursue the abnormal, half relationships!

Because I have commitment issues and trust issues and I didn't take relationships as seriously as I should have. Trust me! I have had many opportunities over the years with good men who were all in and who would make great boyfriends and husbands. For various reasons, I didn't see that at the time.

 

 

I want to find a normal, every day relationship again, very soon! That's why I want to go out on just a date. One date, that's it. Then reassess. Maybe I won't feel comfortable and change my mind and not engage further. I want to try, though!

 

plus the wishing you were married to an ex who STALKED YOU, isn't a red flag so much as a solar flare that you are in a terrible mental and emotional place.

Wait, what??? I never would want to marry him! I used to while we were together of course. But after we broke up and all that happened, and now?? Umm.... that's so far from the truth I have no idea where that came from. I'm not that f'ed up :/

But- I'll tell you one thing. The men that I have chosen for my three long term relationships, have some serious issues. I can see that. Time to change that. Two of them had criminal records. Two were alcoholics, one couldn't keep a job, one was controlling and jealous, one was a narcissist, etc.

 

I need to be honest here about my ex. My feelings started changing for him several months ago. I was falling out of love. I think I mentioned that here, I'm sure I did. I know to everyone I'm the bad guy because I ended the relationship and you refer to it as giving an ultimatum, (actually it wasn't an ultimatum, it was a statement not meant to illicit a reaction because I knew he couldn't change the situation). Posters here have called me cruel and selfish and that I refused to support him. It's not fair. I had to end it, of course it's going to hurt the people involved. I didn't want to hurt him!! He's a wonderful person, and I feel strong empathy and compassion for him. But I couldn't continue on just because I didn't want to break his heart! You all see that we weren't compatible. It doesn't make me a bad person for ending it! I already feel guilty for hurting him, but it doesn't make me a bad partner or selfish, etc. !! I tried.

 

I loved him, of course, but I knew from day one something wasn't right. I remember the day he asked me to be his girlfriend, I was shocked and my response was, "how is that possible? We don't even live in the same city!" and he was so adamant, and he called every day, and he came to CA weeks later, and all this, and so I thought... well, I guess we're going to make this work after all. Let's see what happens. We did fall in love. And from day one he always has talked about moving to CA... so I thought, great, we can close the distance. Never happened.

 

I have known for some time that it wasn't the right fit and I just couldn't accept some of his behaviors and traits, and I was so critical of him, I have never ever felt that way towards anyone I have ever dated! I just knew it wasn't right, and I was fighting it for some time. All the things he said and did that weren't in line with who I am and my goals, etc. It kills me to end this relationship and of course I still have strong feelings for him. BUT I know he isn't right for me and I want to move on. LDRs (at least for me) are not healthy or normal, and I cannot continue. To me, that wasn't an ultimatum, it was just me ending the relationship as it was.

 

Because my feelings have been slipping for him for some months now, I think it is reasonable that I could be interested in going out with another guy.

 

I know that I need to CHANGE my previous behaviors, I know!! Just because I go out on a date doesn't mean I won't work on this. Maybe it would be a good lesson for me to work on change. I know that I need to watch for the actions, not words, beware of someone moving in fast like my ex did, wait for consistency, get to know someone and assess their goals and intentions, I strongly feel that waiting for sex until exclusivity is a key (I learned that the hard way and will repeat it here on out), listen to someone's words instead of rationalizing and justifying them to fit what I want to hear... and mostly, if someone is lukewarm and keeps me guessing and wondering, I know it's not worth the time. I know.

I had to learn these things through experience. I feel like many of you get exasperated with me but I do have to learn these things for myself. It doesn't always stick the first time, with those of us who tend to be stubborn and willful.

 

I took the day off today and am going to my therapist. In the past she has helped me a lot with my insecurities and feelings of self worth. She got me through the stalker ex period and always keeps an eye out for my dating patterns. The last time she saw me was when I was debating moving to New Orleans. She encouraged me to trust my gut feelings. And I did, in the end.

 

I think that is something I need to work on right now and here on out.

With my ex, it just didn't feel right, many things, like the asking me to be his girlfriend on day two, introducing me to his entire family on our second meeting, saying I love you within a month or so, things he told me about himself (that I didn't share here necessarily), the relationships he had with other females while we were together, etc. I didn't trust in my own feelings and intuition at the time. I brushed it off. Thankfully, it all caught up to me and I made the decision I did. So I figure, it worked out as it would. It took a year. I can't beat myself up for giving it a chance and getting to know him and taking time and letting things evolve. It is easy for outsiders to say, "I would have ended it at nine months", but in all fairness that's easier said than done.

 

But in the future, I know I will never ever engage in a LDR again. Not even in a different county. I'm also ok with NOT dating right now too for a little while. I will never accept a half-relationship, quasi-relationship with someone who isn't fully available and putting full effort into it. I need someone present, mentally and physically, who is consistent, stable, responsible and available, and who makes the effort. I want to meet someone who is willing to take time and not impulsive like my ex and who isn't motivated by emotions, not logic. Ex was extremely impulsive and unstable. Although a good heart, not stable at all. It made me extremely anxious.

 

More later.

[PinkPampies]

Hi Venus

 

I have been reading through some of this thread and I can completely understand where you're coming from.

 

I know your biological clock is ticking.

At 29, I had a sudden case of "I need a baby now"

 

I told my long term boyfriend that and we got married 6 months later. I went on to have 3 kids. I know I was settling, because our core values were so different and he wasn't a good man.

 

Well.. it turned out to be a horrible marriage. Cheating and abuse in all forms. But I have my 3 amazing kids who are now teenagers. We divorced 2 years ago. And I will always have to deal with him. He hasn't even had an interest to see his kids in 4 months, had to take him to court for child support, restraining order, the whole 9 yards.

 

What I'm getting at is, I understand your trepidation in moving or having him move. I too used to be against living with someone before marriage but my suggestion to anyone now would be to live together for a year before marriage. I think it would save people from getting marriedntobrhenwrong person in a lot of cases.

 

I think you're doing the right thing. If having a baby is so important to you, which it would be for me, you can always get a special donor. The right man will come along. Don't EVER settle. And ALWAYS listen to your intuition.

[lana-banana]

Wait, what??? I never would want to marry him! I used to while we were together of course. But after we broke up and all that happened, and now?? Umm.... that's so far from the truth I have no idea where that came from. I'm not that f'ed up :/

 

Sorry, Venus. I guess I just misinterpreted this passage from page 117:

 

(I mean, yes, I would like to have been married when I was 25 to my last long term boyfriend)

 

I was under the impression that this was your 2013 ex (the crazy one), based on the threads you posted and your own timelines. In 2013 you said you two broke up 2.5 years ago, so that would have made him your last long-term boyfriend, no? I didn't realize you had a long-term boyfriend between him and your most recent ex. I'm sorry for apparently misunderstanding your timelines and posts.

 

But- I'll tell you one thing. The men that I have chosen for my three long term relationships, have some serious issues. I can see that. Time to change that. Two of them had criminal records. Two were alcoholics, one couldn't keep a job, one was controlling and jealous, one was a narcissist, etc.

 

I need to be honest here about my ex. My feelings started changing for him several months ago. I was falling out of love. I think I mentioned that here, I'm sure I did. I know to everyone I'm the bad guy because I ended the relationship and you refer to it as giving an ultimatum, (actually it wasn't an ultimatum, it was a statement not meant to illicit a reaction because I knew he couldn't change the situation). Posters here have called me cruel and selfish and that I refused to support him. It's not fair. I had to end it, of course it's going to hurt the people involved. I didn't want to hurt him!! He's a wonderful person, and I feel strong empathy and compassion for him. But I couldn't continue on just because I didn't want to break his heart! You all see that we weren't compatible. It doesn't make me a bad person for ending it! I already feel guilty for hurting him, but it doesn't make me a bad partner or selfish, etc. !! I tried.

 

I loved him, of course, but I knew from day one something wasn't right. I remember the day he asked me to be his girlfriend, I was shocked and my response was, "how is that possible? We don't even live in the same city!" and he was so adamant, and he called every day, and he came to CA weeks later, and all this, and so I thought... well, I guess we're going to make this work after all. Let's see what happens. We did fall in love. And from day one he always has talked about moving to CA... so I thought, great, we can close the distance. Never happened.

 

I have known for some time that it wasn't the right fit and I just couldn't accept some of his behaviors and traits, and I was so critical of him, I have never ever felt that way towards anyone I have ever dated! I just knew it wasn't right, and I was fighting it for some time. All the things he said and did that weren't in line with who I am and my goals, etc. It kills me to end this relationship and of course I still have strong feelings for him. BUT I know he isn't right for me and I want to move on. LDRs (at least for me) are not healthy or normal, and I cannot continue. To me, that wasn't an ultimatum, it was just me ending the relationship as it was.

 

Because my feelings have been slipping for him for some months now, I think it is reasonable that I could be interested in going out with another guy.

 

I know that I need to CHANGE my previous behaviors, I know!! Just because I go out on a date doesn't mean I won't work on this. Maybe it would be a good lesson for me to work on change. I know that I need to watch for the actions, not words, beware of someone moving in fast like my ex did, wait for consistency, get to know someone and assess their goals and intentions, I strongly feel that waiting for sex until exclusivity is a key (I learned that the hard way and will repeat it here on out), listen to someone's words instead of rationalizing and justifying them to fit what I want to hear... and mostly, if someone is lukewarm and keeps me guessing and wondering, I know it's not worth the time. I know.

I had to learn these things through experience. I feel like many of you get exasperated with me but I do have to learn these things for myself. It doesn't always stick the first time, with those of us who tend to be stubborn and willful.

 

I want to believe you here, Venus, but there's so little responsibility here for your own role in the relationship that I don't have a lot of hope. Go out and enjoy your date, but be honest with yourself. You want babies and rings and male attention and won't let anyone stand in your way, personal well-being be damned.

Edited January 6, 2017 by lana-banana

[venusishername]

I was under the impression that this was your 2013 ex (the crazy one), based on the threads you posted and your own timelines. In 2013 you said you two broke up 2.5 years ago, so that would have made him your last long-term boyfriend, no? I didn't realize you had a long-term boyfriend between him and your most recent ex. I'm sorry for apparently misunderstanding your timelines and posts.

 

Yes, you misunderstood. I said, or should have said, and meant, "at the time, when I was 25, I wanted to marry the boyfriend I was with, at that time, when I was 25." I ended the relationship at 27, and I would never ever want to be with or even near him again. At the time, during our relationship, before he stalked me, etc. Before all that happened, I wanted to marry him. Hope that clears things up.

I feel like the reason I spend so much time on LS rationalizing or justifying and excusing or trying to explain my words is that many, many times they are misinterpreted here. And that's hard to avoid in writing.

 

I want to believe you here, Venus, but there's so little responsibility here for your own role in the relationship that I don't have a lot of hope. Go out and enjoy your date, but be honest with yourself. You want babies and rings and male attention and won't let anyone stand in your way, personal well-being be damned.

Why don't you believe me? Sincerely I want to do my best and start over, slowly, and look, I'm ok with being single right now. Truly! I'm not desperately seeking male attention now. To be honest I'd be happy holing up in my room and not washing my hair and eating takeout and not shaving my legs for a long time. I don't really even desire male attention lately. One of my friends tried to set me up with a friend of her boyfriend the other day. I said, "no, no, I'm not looking, not interested". And I mean it. I'm really ok with just moping and reflecting right now. In fact, I could do this for awhile, but it's not really healthy either. I can still go on a date and do that. In fact, I would RATHER do that than go on a date. But I have to just force myself to move forward, in that general direction, soon.

 

What exactly would be the words I could express that I DO take responsibility for my own actions in this last relationship? I'm not the victim here. It's not all his fault, it's not all my fault, it's no one's fault really. We can't blame ourselves or each other for things not working out. Trust me, I've been beating myself up and shaming myself for the decisions I've made in this relationship for some time now. And it hasn't been just since we broke up. It's been "over" since November for me, Lana. It ended then, or maybe even before that, really. Sometimes, in breakups, like this one, it builds for some time, and I began distancing BEFORE now, so I feel like I've been going through the heartache for months.

 

 

I have been on here typing my fingers off lately as to what I feel I did wrong, or what I will do differently next time. I didn't listen to him when he said the things he did, and I felt I could change him or convince him otherwise, or tell myself that I would do my best to work with or through our differences. I truly had hope and I truly loved him and I wanted it to work!

 

 

Taking personal responsibility also means accepting that you make a mistake. Or knowing that you did your best, considering the circumstances. Taking responsibility means admitting I wasn't a good partner in that I didn't want to accept him as he was, and expecting more than what he was able and capable of giving, and making excuses and rationalizing, and denying, etc. to try and convince myself otherwise. Believe me, I could beat myself up forever on this one. I feel terribly. What I feel worst about is that I hurt him and he loved me. But he and I both know that he can't give me what I want and need in the long run, and probably vice versa... so in the end, there is no blame.

 

 

I don't regret pursuing the relationship at the start because I wanted to give it a fair chance! And I did. I feel only with time you can learn if you aren't compatible and if things aren't going to work long term. I truly did want to give it a chance. I wanted to believe I could have a life with him, and start a new life with him. I feel that sometimes I was uncompromising and sometimes didn't want to accept what he was saying, like the "engagement for a couple years", or once he said, "you should come down for Mardi Gras next year"... When he said that I was hurt, thinking... "he talks like we're still going to be long distance a year from now?" And what do you know... we would have been. I didn't want that... a year ago. And now, I made my happiness a priority, so that I'm not in that position today. I feel good about that! I DID take responsibility for my own actions and honored my feelings in that a year ago, I knew I didn't want to be in this position today. That meant ending the relationship. Neither one of us moved to be together. So it's over. I feel secure and confident in this decision.

 

 

You will be glad to know that I went to my therapist today. She tells me she is very proud of me for not settling, and going after the life that I want, but at least giving it a chance! Even though he did say the things he did, which I acknowledge were red flags, it was because I had high hopes that it would work out despite them. That isn't smart, but I'm not going to beat myself up for it forever. I think 'rushing' into the relationship as we did was not smart, and impulsive. It did move pretty fast from the start, and in hindsight I would not have committed fully to him unless I got to know him better and found out some core compatibility issues prior to sex and exclusivity. We didn't sleep together until 6 weeks, and talking daily, and asking me to be exclusive... which I think is GOOD, but was not good is that I didn't get to know the core compatibility issues before I agreed to either sex or exclusivity.

 

 

The therapist also says that it is great and she encourages that I just go out on a date with no expectations. And I truly, truly don't have any at all. In fact, it's so relieving to not feel that expectation like I have before. I'm not going to get caught up in emotions and create this image of this guy before I even get to know him, or start twisting the reality or latching on and making excuses as to how interested he is, if he's not. You underestimate me. I would hope to hell I've learned from my mistakes before! I know I've been saying "I'm ready" for a long time, but as we all know, wanting to be ready and actually being READY are very different. I think rushing into things is the first mistake I have made upon a new relationship. As for my upcoming date, to be honest, I would be happy just starting out having a friendship for the time being. I'm not out there seeking validation or male attention like I used to. Believe me. I'm ok with just getting through this time, I've been very depressed and lethargic and sad... and hurt and beating myself up.

 

 

I think it would do me good to accept a date with someone with whom I was honest about my recent breakup, and just be around some positive energy and just take a baby step towards 'starting over'. I've been heartbroken for months. I've been processing this breakup since before the breakup. Maybe it will be a good lesson for me to experience, and you know, I may realize, I'm not ready to date again so I'm going to hold off. All of this has been a learning experience. I feel you have to learn from experience, right? I know what I have done wrong in the past. I'm not out there on the hunt for a man to marry me and give me babies, right now! That is the image of me some posters have conveyed... I'm just a person who wants to start a life with someone and have intimacy and stability and happiness!

Edited January 6, 2017 by venusishername

[GemmaUK]

Your therapist sounds good.

She has made you see al we have ben saying pretty much.

The only thing I would do is make the new guy aware before you go any further that this will be a friends meet up and not a date as it's not fair on him otherwise and you really need to take responsibility for that and tell him.

 

You also say you have been typing your fingers off to justify yourself in here - so why not take responsibility for that also and close this thread?

[losangelena]

The therapist also says that it is great and she encourages that I just go out on a date with no expectations. And I truly, truly don't have any at all. In fact, it's so relieving to not feel that expectation like I have before. I'm not going to get caught up in emotions and create this image of this guy before I even get to know him, or start twisting the reality or latching on and making excuses as to how interested he is, if he's not. You underestimate me. I would hope to hell I've learned from my mistakes before! I know I've been saying "I'm ready" for a long time, but as we all know, wanting to be ready and actually being READY are very different. I think rushing into things is the first mistake I have made upon a new relationship. As for my upcoming date, to be honest, I would be happy just starting out having a friendship for the time being. I'm not out there seeking validation or male attention like I used to. Believe me. I'm ok with just getting through this time, I've been very depressed and lethargic and sad... and hurt and beating myself up.

 

Pardon, but these two sentences sitting so close to each other seem a bit incongruous. You're not seeking validation through male attention, yet you're depressed, lethargic and sad, and you think what will make you feel better is going out with a man (who by your own admission in previous posts, is keeping steady contact) "as friends."

 

I'm sorry. If a girlfriend came to me and said the same thing, this is something I'd want to call her out on. There are about 10,000 other things to do post-breakup, when one is beating themselves up, that don't include going out on a date! By accepting this date in the first place, you are setting up an expectation with this man that the potential for romantic interest is possible. To that I say BS. You are not ready. No one is ready that quickly. You were speaking on the phone to your ex not even a week ago.

 

Plan a weekend camping trip. Go wine tasting. Go out on the town with some girlfriends and just flirt (no exchanging numbers!). Start a book club. Take a photography class. So many things have the ability to make you feel part of the world and connect to yourself—that don't include a man.

 

I know you'll disagree, and say your life is full of other things, but just the sheer volume of words you type on this thread, page after page, suggests that the quest to find a man and have a family has become the central focus of your life. You cannot be so fixated on it and have it come to pass.

 

An anecdote: I didn't learn to ride a bike until my late 20s. A friend ended up teaching me in the loading dock of a grocery store on a rainy Saturday afternoon. It took me a few hours to learn how to balance, but I'd get frustrated that, even after that time, I wasn't able to make more than a couple rotations before tipping over. I was so focused, staring intently at my legs and feet and the pedals; I couldn't figure out what was wrong, why I wasn't literally able to go further. Eventually, I realized that I needed to take my eyes off what I was doing—I had to look straight ahead—and only then was I able to stay upright on the bike and go where I wanted. I had to take my eyes off what I was doing, in order to be successful and what I was doing.

 

I think that analogy applies to you and your situation. Take your eyes off the men for a while.

[lana-banana]

Yes, you misunderstood. I said, or should have said, and meant, "at the time, when I was 25, I wanted to marry the boyfriend I was with, at that time, when I was 25." I ended the relationship at 27, and I would never ever want to be with or even near him again. At the time, during our relationship, before he stalked me, etc. Before all that happened, I wanted to marry him. Hope that clears things up.

I feel like the reason I spend so much time on LS rationalizing or justifying and excusing or trying to explain my words is that many, many times they are misinterpreted here. And that's hard to avoid in writing.

 

So what you meant was you do indeed wish you had married your stalker ex, but only at age 25 before you realized who he really was. Oookay.

 

Have you considered the reason you spend so many pages trying to explain things is because you are constantly contradicting yourself, rewriting history, and changing your mind about what you mean? Don't you think it's sad that we've reached a point where we have to literally show you where you said certain things because otherwise you'll deny it? There is no personal responsibility in your paragraph above. Apparently it's all on us for not understanding exactly what you mean. It's not "hard to avoid" confusing people in writing when you're consistent and honest.

 

(Not to mention all of the details that have only now started coming out after the breakup---bounced checks, ambivalence about time for a relationship, sketchy texts to a chick you don't know---why now, and why not tell us about these things when they actually happened? For months all you did was spin and spin and spin when you could have been providing actual relevant information about your relationship. It's like finishing a novel only to discover I somehow skipped over about thirty pages of character and plot development.)

 

I wanted to say there's no way you're like this in real life, but I think you very well may be. I think your inability to present all of yourself in an honest way is part of your problem. You meet men and present Cool Venus, who is awesome and sexy and the full package, and men dig that. But within a month or so they realize Cool Venus is a mask for Insecure Venus, who is flighty and needy and completely inconsistent. I suspect part of the reason your LDR was successful for so long was because you were able to keep the Cool Venus facade up much longer than you would have in reality.

 

This sounds counterintuitive, but you might actually fare better if you were just yourself around men and didn't worry about impressing them or being rejected by them. A good guy will understand you're a mix of both cool and insecure, and love you for your authenticity. Trying hard to be something you're not will only set you back.

[Weezy1973]

I think you'd do well to put yourself in other people's shoes for a bit. Empathy is an excellent quality in a relationship partner. If you were this guy you're going to go on a date with, how would you feel about going on a date with someone who readily admits it's nothing romantic, will not be having sex anytime soon, and isn't even interested nor is ready for dating at the moment?

 

You get so caught up in your own thoughts and feelings that sometimes I don't think you even have room to consider other people thoughts and feelings. This specifically is what I was referring to when I mentioned that I didn't think you'd make a particularly good partner at this point.

 

Also if you admit to being a perfectionist, you can't be at all taken aback by you ex calling you high maintenance. Perfectionist by definition is high maintenance.

[Imajerk17]

Well, in fairness to venus, even though she is getting called out a lot here, I don't think she is that unusual. She is like many many women (not all) her age or a bit younger in the dating pool:

 

--Wants an everlasting love and is desperately wondering when it will happen to her.

 

--Obsessed w the emotional landscape inside her head, to the point of not always "seeing" the other person.

 

--Attracts many men, at least through the second date that is. But always seems to end up picking the wrong ones and passing up on the right ones, due to looking for the wrong things, going too much by "feelings", "instant butterflies", ect.

 

--Wonders why that is. Goes to therapy trying to figure herself out.

 

--Despite this, still has difficulties taking responsibility for her expectations, decisions, and actions.

 

We see it on this forum a lot. Threads written by women who are looking for a lifelong partner and who are starting to wonder if going by instant chemistry is really the way to go about this. Hell I think every guy has even gone on dates w a few women who either were obsessed w finding a husband and/or who clearly weren't over their ex and were going on dates to self-medicate. Even women who weren't officially broken up but were still putting themselves out there to date (aka "monkey-branching"). That's not cool at all but it is what it is. At least venus told this new guy that she just broke up w someone*, which actually puts her ahead.

 

That said, there are many many women who have matured beyond the above, they have their pickers screwed on right and they take responsibility for their expectations, decisions, and actions. As a man, I can say that this is very very attractive in someone.

 

[To be fair, our gender is prone to doing likewise. Many many (not all) MEN do our own version of the above. We say we want a serious relationship but then we go by physical attractiveness over character or compatibility, typically w bad results. The difference between the genders IMO is, for better or worse, we don't spend a lot of time wondering why that is or beating ourselves up for that or analyzing our past or going to therapy. We eventually tire of flakiness and drama and accept that if we want to settle down, we need to look for different things. I could say more but my point is that this post isn't to bash any one gender because we have our own big blind spots too. Sort of a general commentary. But I digress.]

 

 

Anyway, that venus isn't that uncommon--maybe that is why her thread has so many responses?

 

 

 

 

*I THINK she did, at least. I am hoping that venus actually told this new guy that she VERY RECENTLY broke up with someone and not just that her last relationship was an LDR and now she wants to meet someone local. The latter would be a big lie by omission.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Imajerk17

[venusishername]

So what you meant was you do indeed wish you had married your stalker ex, but only at age 25 before you realized who he really was. Oookay.

Have you considered the reason you spend so many pages trying to explain things is because you are constantly contradicting yourself, rewriting history, and changing your mind about what you mean? Don't you think it's sad that we've reached a point where we have to literally show you where you said certain things because otherwise you'll deny it? There is no personal responsibility in your paragraph above. Apparently it's all on us for not understanding exactly what you mean. It's not "hard to avoid" confusing people in writing when you're consistent and honest.

(Not to mention all of the details that have only now started coming out after the breakup---bounced checks, ambivalence about time for a relationship, sketchy texts to a chick you don't know---why now, and why not tell us about these things when they actually happened? For months all you did was spin and spin and spin when you could have been providing actual relevant information about your relationship. It's like finishing a novel only to discover I somehow skipped over about thirty pages of character and plot development.)

I wanted to say there's no way you're like this in real life, but I think you very well may be. I think your inability to present all of yourself in an honest way is part of your problem. You meet men and present Cool Venus, who is awesome and sexy and the full package, and men dig that. But within a month or so they realize Cool Venus is a mask for Insecure Venus, who is flighty and needy and completely inconsistent. I suspect part of the reason your LDR was successful for so long was because you were able to keep the Cool Venus facade up much longer than you would have in reality.

This sounds counterintuitive, but you might actually fare better if you were just yourself around men and didn't worry about impressing them or being rejected by them. A good guy will understand you're a mix of both cool and insecure, and love you for your authenticity. Trying hard to be something you're not will only set you back.

Lana, I feel we are having really terrible lapse in communication. I wanted to be married, at the time, to my boyfriend when I was 25. Not after that, not now. I found out his true colors after we broke up. I no longer wanted to be married to him, and still do not want to be married to him. I’m not crazy, I’m not contradicting myself. I no longer wish I had married him. Ok? I realize that was not clear. I am not changing my mind, and to be honest, I am exhausted just talking about this anymore. You are labeling me as in need of help and not in a good mental place because you misinterpreted that I wanted to marry someone who turned out to be a stalker. How the F is that my fault that I didn’t know he was capable of that???

Otherwise, thanks for your suggestion. I agree.

I think you'd do well to put yourself in other people's shoes for a bit. Empathy is an excellent quality in a relationship partner. If you were this guy you're going to go on a date with, how would you feel about going on a date with someone who readily admits it's nothing romantic, will not be having sex anytime soon, and isn't even interested nor is ready for dating at the moment?

You get so caught up in your own thoughts and feelings that sometimes I don't think you even have room to consider other people thoughts and feelings. This specifically is what I was referring to when I mentioned that I didn't think you'd make a particularly good partner at this point.

Also if you admit to being a perfectionist, you can't be at all taken aback by you ex calling you high maintenance. Perfectionist by definition is high maintenance.

You know what? You’re right, Weezy. One of my goals lately has been to practice more patience and compassion. I’m actually interested in doing some volunteer work and you know, all of a sudden it hit me.. my writing here and length and detail on LS is not healthy anymore.

I would like to just post on other people’s threads, not write on my own. I need to get out of my head, and ending this thread will help accomplish that. I would rather help others at this point than get stuck in this any longer.

As for my potential date coming up. how would I feel about going on a date with someone who readily admits it's nothing romantic, will not be having sex anytime soon, and isn't even interested nor is ready for dating at the moment?

Of course it’s romantic, it’s a date. I’m going on a date. No further analysis or hidden meanings. I’m not yet thinking about sex or the possibility of sex, or even a second date! I don’t want to be just friends, I said if it works out that way and I don’t feel comfortable with dating after the first date, then I can be ok with just making a new friend out of this, if anything at all. Look. I’m just trying my darndest to not have expectations and just live the experience and take it for what it is. I’m just getting to know a potential romantic interest.

*I THINK she did, at least. I am hoping that venus actually told this new guy that she VERY RECENTLY broke up with someone and not just that her last relationship was an LDR and now she wants to meet someone local. The latter would be a big lie by omission.

Thanks for what you said. I appreciate that.

Also- yes, I did. He said, “oh so he’s not going to show up here and try to win you back, right?” in response to me telling him it happened recently.

On that note, I would like to close this thread. I would like to focus on other things, in fact I think it would be better for me to post more on other threads, no longer my own.

I appreciate all of you who have followed closely and pushed me and shown your encouragement and support. There are a few of you (you know who you are), that I would like to keep in touch with, please PM me. You’ll see me on the forum, posting in others’ threads, hoping to share my dating lessons learned.

Moderator, you have the word to close.

 

 

< moderator edit: thread closed by request >

Edited January 6, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
thread closed ~6