When it rains it pours

[lana-banana]

Hi Venus. Wishing you a relaxing Christmas and a chance to reconnect with your family. Regardless of whether you met with your ex or not, I hope you feel a sense of closure and preparation for the year ahead. I know folks (myself included) can seem harsh sometimes, but we're all pulling for you.

[venusishername]

Hi Venus. Wishing you a relaxing Christmas and a chance to reconnect with your family. Regardless of whether you met with your ex or not, I hope you feel a sense of closure and preparation for the year ahead. I know folks (myself included) can seem harsh sometimes, but we're all pulling for you.

 

Thank you, Lana. It's been a very emotional Christmas. Not a great one, with family drama and the whole breakup. I can handle the harshness, don't worry. Hope you had a great holiday too. Now I will be spending time today with friends and keeping busy. Don't have plans for NYE yet but I'm sure something will come up. I'm really lonely that's for sure.

 

I met with him last night, after my family day. He had given me an address where to meet him so we could go get coffee but he didn't see that I had texted on my way so when I pulled up several of his family members were outside with him. So I had to say my hellos, that was something I wanted to avoid. Anyway, I felt bad about that. They were cordial with me and one of his cousins chatted with me and was kind about it. I had wished he would have come out alone and I didn't have to see the family. I felt like a jerk for doing that, but he said he had told them that we were meeting and the situation.

 

 

Anyway, the whole time was very emotional. I don't crave drama like Gemma said (I think Gemma) but it was for closure. He did say he wanted to meet, I didn't expect that he would, but he did. And I thought it would be good to see each other and of course talk in person. This whole phone nonsense just doesn't cut it.

 

We did a lot of talking and walking, we did exchange gifts. He gave me a costume jewelry necklace, although it is something I would actually wear and is my taste. We went for a walk on the water and then had coffee at a diner.

I think we came to an understanding, actually. At first he was saying he didn't want to let me go and he wanted to prove he was serious about what he had been talking about, that he did think and want to start a life with me. He also said that he thinks I started putting words in his mouth lately... when I said he didn't want a marriage and kids. He never said "no". I thought his "maybe" meant "no". But in fact, it did just mean "maybe". That's what he said. I think I was using our differences, and maybe being too critical about him as justification for breaking up, part of it. So he does mean maybe, not no. He says he's not ready now, and can't make a commitment like that now. He knows, and even said it out loud, that he realizes that isn't acceptable to me. I told him that moving towards a serious, committed relationship and starting a family very soon is VERY VERY important to me. And he knows that, and respects it. I mean, I think that if we lived in the same city and all was great and things were good between us, a good match, then yes I do think it COULD eventually lead towards that. But who knows when? I mean, the fact that we don't even live in the same city contributes to the lack of progress. Nothing has changed in over a year. I truly feel like the distance itself is a HUGE factor that prevented it from naturally progressing, in "an organic and linear" way, like Lana said.

 

But I feel like I've been the one wanting to move this along, to close the distance, he really hasn't. He was willing to take a passive role, like 'yeah, move into my house', but he hasn't been willing, or has ever done anything to actively close the distance. Or hasn't had time, or not ready, or not sure, etc. It's just been talk. He admits to not making or having enough time for relationships in his life. He feels like he didn't do enough. I feel the same. I wish I could have done more. I feel like I have been too hard headed and stubborn sometimes. I think I should have been more compromising and understanding in some ways.

 

 

I was angry and critical before (as I was writing here sometimes) but after seeing him we did talk a lot and I do feel we came to an understanding that this is for the best and we have a mutual respect. He does respect my decision and knows why I am doing this. At times he would say things about 'in the future' but I didn't agree or disagree. I'm not leaving it open although he said he would always want me, and would love me. I couldn't agree with him about the future, because I can't leave it open like that. I can't date other men and still talk to him or leave open the possibility for getting back together if and when he moves here. So I told him, I don't think it's a good idea that we continue talking, like we have been, it would just be like the same as before, and we both need to move on. I made it clear that I can't talk to him and maintain this relationship/friendship, etc., as that isn't healthy. Of course we will talk again, but he was suggesting we still talk all the time, like we usually were doing. I said no, we can't.

 

 

He does still talk about moving to CA, but I know as well as he does it's not going to happen anytime real soon. I told him that he should move if HE wants to, not because I was pressuring him or trying to convince him of anything. It should be on his own initiative and not something he's doing for me. If he was serious about it he would put actions towards that, and I haven't seen anything concrete. So it made that he has reservations about doing it, and that's OK. I understand not wanting to leave your hometown and the life you're used to. CA and LA is an extremely different culture. I mean, it's a culture shock. I completely understand why it is hard to uproot your life and background and be away from your family and your comfort zone.

 

Also about his kids. I told him I know that I understand he has kids and he probably didn't want to leave them and to move away would be too difficult, and he disagreed. He said they're grown and they're independent now so he can easily move.

 

By the way, we're not talking about the move as if it is still being planned as a couple, this was all in hindsight discussion. He still may do it, sometime in the future.

 

Also, he was the one who brought up the topic of dating other people. He says he knows I will be dating, very soon, for some reason he thinks it's very easy for me to get involved with men. And he will date others too....

I didn't feel a need to even MENTION dating other people, because I feel that is implied when you break up and it's a painful topic. I didn't want to have to tell him that I would like to date other people. But for some reason maybe he wanted to put it out there; maybe that helped him in some way. Maybe he realizes he also needs to date someone in his own city. I don't know. It was confusing because he would vacillate between accepting it and not wanting to let me go and that he's still in love with me.

 

I think it's safe to say that we do still have strong feelings for each other but in my mind, the differences (including the distance) are too great, and I'm not willing to wait for him to take the initiative and be fully ready, because he may never come, and may never be ready. I'm not willing to wait for someone who isn't ready and very sure. It comes down to, I need someone who is going to take the initiative. He did not. Even though he does care deeply for me. I felt I was the one trying to convince him of things, and a big change, move, commitment, was not something he was ready for. And I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to have to twist his arm.

 

 

I think in his mind he knows what I want and he knows he can't provide that for me now, maybe ever. I think sometimes he has felt (and said) that another man would be better. He knows what I'm saying, and what I want. He respects me for sticking to my guns and being very clear.

 

I think what it really boils down to is that I am ready now, I live here, I want a real, face to face relationship, and I want a man who is ready, willing, and able to take the initiative on his own to do that with me. I don't want to have to try and convince someone of that. I feel I could meet someone here who is on the same page as I am with those things.

I truly do hope so. He is loving and treats me very well and respects me and shows me kindness and love. I'm sure I'll never meet another man like him but maybe one more suited to me. Particularly in proximity. That's a really big factor. Long distance relationships don't work out unless there is a firm deadline when you will be closing the distance. We didn't have that and I gave it over a year. Even now, it would've been months and months, maybe 6 months, who knows.

I realize that I could've moved to LA but I think my intuition was nagging at me to stay put in CA. I'm glad I didn't move. It was a big decision.

 

Anyway, I have more to write later. I think it is best to leave on a good note, and we do have a lot of love for each other. And I told him I don't want to hurt him, that he deserves happiness and that I don't want him to be lonely either. I am glad we met yesterday.

[Leigh 87]

So sorry you're going through this. Ugh. What a great time of year to have a break up

 

Even if he closed the distance tomorrow... he is still not stable or financially responsible enough. AND he didn't feel compelled to step up then to support his own children. If he didn't then, he won't likely ever get there.

 

So it is not like he was really dangling any carrots. There were too many incompatibilities.

 

The real loser here is him. I feel that he won't meet someone that he is as in love with as he is with you again. At least not for a long time.

 

Sorry.

 

Please take extra special care of yourself. I use face masks every night and light candles and insense daily. It all makes me feel better.

 

I am sure you're a little excited now, about meeting someone new.

[Weezy1973]

Venus, your biggest challenge is going to be your self-imposed timeline. It takes at least six months to get through the honeymoon period, and clearly no major decisions should be made during that time. And then minimum of another six months to really get to know if you're compatible.

 

And that's not even considering the one and done dates. So yeah, I feel your pain. It's often debated on here who has it tougher with dating, men or women. I've always thought that women in their mid thirties who know they want children and have the clock ticking have it the toughest. They're the only ones who also feel the pressure of time; and that pressure, unfortunately, can lead to some pretty bad decisions...

[venusishername]

Even if he closed the distance tomorrow... he is still not stable or financially responsible enough. AND he didn't feel compelled to step up then to support his own children. If he didn't then, he won't likely ever get there.

 

So it is not like he was really dangling any carrots. There were too many incompatibilities.

 

The real loser here is him. I feel that he won't meet someone that he is as in love with as he is with you again. At least not for a long time.

 

Sorry.

 

Please take extra special care of yourself. I use face masks every night and light candles and insense daily. It all makes me feel better.

 

I am sure you're a little excited now, about meeting someone new.

Oh Leigh, thank you. I was surprised that you wrote that though, before you were talking about how you would be happy to have someone like him. But now do you see what I mean, I feel like the conversation we had yesterday just proved he is in no position to fully commit to what I am looking for. The fact that he wasn't around for his kids growing up is understandable because of his young age but it never did sit well with me, thinking that if he wouldn't commit to that then, it was a reflection on how he may be if I were in that situation. I can't say for sure now.

 

 

I hate to second guess myself because I know he does love me. And it is very hard to walk away from someone who loves you, and know you are hurting them. I am having such a hard time with this because he is a good man and he does have good intentions. I just know he can't give me what I need now, and maybe not ever.

Yes, I am *kind of* excited to meet someone new. It may take awhile. I thought about browsing online dating again. I met a lot of men that way. None of them progressed past a second date though, unless I met them in person first.

I'm very disappointed that someone I fell in love with and still do have a special connection with turned out to be not the right guy for me. In the back of my mind, I really wish he was.

Venus, your biggest challenge is going to be your self-imposed timeline. It takes at least six months to get through the honeymoon period, and clearly no major decisions should be made during that time. And then minimum of another six months to really get to know if you're compatible.

 

And that's not even considering the one and done dates. So yeah, I feel your pain. It's often debated on here who has it tougher with dating, men or women. I've always thought that women in their mid thirties who know they want children and have the clock ticking have it the toughest. They're the only ones who also feel the pressure of time; and that pressure, unfortunately, can lead to some pretty bad decisions...

Are you saying that you think I made a bad decision in this? I realize that anything under a year is too soon, but on the other hand, you don't need that long or much longer (I think) to know whether you want the same things, are compatible, and want to start a life with someone. I believe he and I both knew by that time what we wanted and if we could really be compatible, even being long distance.

I think I'm just old fashioned. I don't agree with living together before marriage and I think if two people are in similar places in their lives and want the same things and they love each other, then there's no need to drag it out.

 

 

I think I need to date only family oriented men. Someone very stable and responsible, even kind of... I hate to say it.... boring and predictable. I've never dated a guy (long term) like that and that is the very reason I find myself single again. That is what I need. It was easy to get swept away in the romance of New Orleans. I will never forget it.

 

I still do have feelings for him. I truly wish it could work. But he lives there, I need more, and he can't commit to if, when, and where, if he moved here anyway. That's just not good enough for me anymore. I truly do need someone to take more initiative and who is ready to do that.

I thought that by calling me every day and making trips to CA and funding my visits to him as far as the 'dating' costs meant he was showing initiative. It was effort but at the end of the day it wasn't enough. He seems to not have much time or motivation to dedicate to an every day relationship, he even admitted that's happened to him before.

 

 

I'm devastated.

Edited December 27, 2016 by venusishername

[Leigh 87]

Oh I would be happy with someone like him. I AM with someone like him.

 

Kids are not essential for me though. Plus I am not super responsible; I have spent my 100k worth of savings throughout my adult life on yearly overseas trips. At 28 the money ran out and I had to finally pick a solid career. So now I live similar to a student only I am not even able to get a student job due to my asberges syndrome; I am only great at one on one work.

 

Shame I didn't use my travel money to set up a small business that would have sustained me during college. Now I am forced to rely on others.

 

You are already responsible. You already have your career together. I don't. I would have been satisfied with a guy who could START to get their act together upon meeting me because he would have matched me in this major way.

 

That's what I was implying. I was after a similar guy to myself; someone interested/open to getting their lives and finances together.

 

I also repelled my neighbor who I had a fling with.....he was like you and he could see I was more like your bf. He wanted a girl who owned a house and had a full time profession by 30. Rather than a girl who blew all her entire lifes savings thus far living it up overseas every year.

 

He went after Miss responsible but lacked the sparks we had so ended up cheating on her with me (he didn't admit they were an item of course prior:sick:)

 

It is truly hard to find someone who's REALLY compatible with you. To find that with great sparks and passion is rare indeed.

[introverted1]

Hey Venus, I hope you are feeling a bit better now that you have closure.

 

I did something last night that I encourage you to do: I read this thread from its beginning in 2014. What really struck me were the patterns in your thinking and behavior -- some good, others not so much, and some just outright self-sabotaging.

 

One day, when you have the time, you might want to do the same, paying close attention to your worries, assumptions, and projections as well as the advice you received (and often dismissed) from people here. It might be a helpful jump-start to the introspection several of us have suggested.

 

Hope things get better for you soon.

[GemmaUK]

moving towards a serious, committed relationship and starting a family very soon is VERY VERY important to me.

This will get the same reaction over and over from any new man - any new guy will want to wait and see if you two are compatible which is how you should view things also. Surely the absolute last thing you would want is to be married and having a child with a man who you are not compatible with and haven't taken considerable time to get to know before you leap into marriage and children?

 

 

Of course we will talk again

This is where the drama comes in - still talking at all will hinder any chances you have to meet someone else and move on for one, it will hinder any chances of your own personal growth also. How do you not see that?

 

You need to cut contact asap with NOLA guy and also I too would recommend reading this thread yourself as the above poster suggested. If you can read as an outsider you could learn a lot.

[NuevoYorko]

Are you saying that you think I made a bad decision in this? I realize that anything under a year is too soon, but on the other hand, you don't need that long or much longer (I think) to know whether you want the same things, are compatible, and want to start a life with someone.

 

I can't speak for the other poster, but I'm pretty sure they didn't mean that you made a bad decision in breaking up with NOLA guy. Broken up with him or not, your timeline is probably going to be a problem for you.

 

Even if you meet a man who does say he wants the same things that you do, and you feel compatible, the chances that everything will fall into place on your schedule are weak. It could happen, but banking on it is unwise. IMO what would benefit you the most is to get some counseling and try to get to the bottom of your self sabotaging behaviors.

 

Why have you been fooling around in all these dead end relationships (including this one) or remaining completely single for years, and suddenly needing everything to fall into place for a 1950's fantasy nuclear family immediately, chop chop!

 

You simply have been behaving in a way that is completely opposite to getting what you say you want. It's self sabotaging. You are standing in your own way. From other things you've posted here on LS, I think you have good reasons for that which could be dealt with through counseling. As it is, you seem startlingly blind to your own patterns.

 

I've said before, it is ill advised to have one's entire hopes for life tied up in a need for another person to behave in a pre-determined way. In your case, another person you have yet to meet.

 

I believe you have some stuff to work out before you are going to be ready to be a full, lifetime partner. If you sit down, pretend you are an Internet stranger, and read this thread from beginning to end, you might see some of your self sabotaging patterns.

 

I honestly do wish you the best. I would be really happy to see your (or any) fairytale come true, but I hope that you will start on some work towards creating a life and a vision for yourself that would not be wholly dependent on another person fitting into your script.

[lana-banana]

As others have advised I strongly suggest you re-read this thread. A lot has changed; some things haven't. You need to read for yourself, but I can offer some guidelines:

 

- You contort reality when it doesn't suit you. When various men have proven unable to meet your needs (whether not wanting a relationship, children, or whatever) you always find a way to interpret it favorably. When other posters called you on being inconsistent you wrote elaborate justifications for why you weren't technically lying. It's a miracle you haven't broken your back straining to make these excuses. I think the excuses matter less than why you do it at all. Why not accept "okay, he didn't answer my texts, he probably doesn't want to date me" or "he won't commit to having kids, this won't work out"? Why do you find it easier to make excuses than accept the truth?

 

- You are smart enough to know you aren't being honest, but you try to ignore it. At around the six-month mark of your LDR you repeatedly expressed fear that maybe he was comfortable staying long-distance, perhaps he was fine with the status quo and didn't see any need to move to be together. That should have been a cue for a serious talk about making real plans to be together, not the "gosh if we lived together who would move where? And what would we do after our weekly movie date?" stuff you apparently had instead.

 

- You are a terrible judge of actions, behaviors, and consequences (this may tie into the whole lack of reality thing). When a guy checked you out in the street you were sure he was very romantically interested and would call soon. When a guy sent you a last minute text you were over the moon because he was obviously so interested. And now, because a man called you every day, you inexplicably took that to mean he was interested in a serious relationship or marriage with you. As much as I think he may have misled you a bit, you are to blame for deciding that regular phone calls meant he was invested in the relationship. That's the bare minimum for someone in an LDR.

 

I am worried about your judgment more generally. You want a stable, family-oriented man, but think of them as "boring"? What? Lots of my friends are fathers and I wouldn't call a single one of them boring. Desiring a single partner and a lifetime of commitment doesn't make one boring. I think this may be part of why you choose men who aren't good for you---you write them off or categorize them according to unfair criteria. A nice fellow who treats you respectfully is "boring" but a guy who clearly only wants a booty call is "interested"?

 

You selectively ignore what you know you don't like, contort the rest, and when you don't have enough information your imagination runs wild filling in the gaps. Remember M and how much you built him up before you even met?

 

Be kind to yourself. You can fix this, but you have to want to fix this, and that means accepting responsibility rather than making excuses. You are where you are today due largely to your own decisions, and that's okay. Start thinking about what you have to do in order to get where you want to go.

[Weezy1973]

Are you saying that you think I made a bad decision in this? I realize that anything under a year is too soon, but on the other hand, you don't need that long or much longer (I think) to know whether you want the same things, are compatible, and want to start a life with someone.

 

Noooo...I think you definitely made the right decision! It was hard of course, but the right choices often are...

 

I think they did a study once on the ideal amount of time couples were together before getting married and the most successful times were between 1.5 and 3 years. The thought being that prior to 1.5 years, couples didn't know each other well enough to make a sound decision, and over 3 years suggested there was no real urgency to commit in the first place (i.e. commitment issues).

 

All this just meaning, that make sure you don't put the cart before the horse moving forward. And yes, you should definitely be filtering for men that know they want marriage and children, but bear in mind this would be a minimum requirement kind of in line with a man that is monogamous (assuming you're monogamous). But bear in mind that a man can certainly want marriage, kids and be monogamous, but still make a terrible husband and father. Or even, want marriage, kids, is monogamous and would make a wonderful husband and father, but still isn't compatible with you!!

 

And you need to give yourself the time necessary, without pressure, to figure that stuff out...

[anna121]

I am also re-reading the entire thread! (I came in when Venus had just met NOLA guy.)

 

The only problem is that I want to reply to everything. LOL

 

I'm glad you had a good convo with him Venus. Now, it's time to detach.

[venusishername]

Why have you been fooling around in all these dead end relationships (including this one) or remaining completely single for years, and suddenly needing everything to fall into place for a 1950's fantasy nuclear family immediately, chop chop!

You simply have been behaving in a way that is completely opposite to getting what you say you want. It's self sabotaging. You are standing in your own way. From other things you've posted here on LS, I think you have good reasons for that which could be dealt with through counseling. As it is, you seem startlingly blind to your own patterns.

Well, I think for the past year, and all my (long term) relationships, I have always had hopes that they were the right person and I was in love. I was fully committed to this relationship and the long term one prior and I sincerely gave my all to make it work. I don’t consider this last year with him “fooling around in a dead end relationship”! I sincerely thought it could work out, and I wanted it to be forever! I really did. I still do love him. So I don’t consider that wasting time. The circumstances of a long distance relationship ARE, like you say, opposite of getting what I want. I can see that participating in a long distance relationship with someone for over a year is counterproductive to having a stable, committed, real, relationship. I get that. For that reason, I think I was compelled to put an end to it, and as much as it hurts, I’m glad I did for that reason alone! I realized that a LDR is the opposite of what I want, so I have to remove myself from that situation. I thought that was a good start! Maybe I’m on the right track then. I think I came a long way just from when I met him, I knew I didn’t want to get involved with anyone for something superficial, I wanted to wait until we were exclusive to have sex, etc. Whereas I was casually hooking up with guys before who weren’t serious about a relationship, (like in the year or so before I met him, and yes, wasting time), I can see how I had changed by the time he came along. I learned a lot, really. I know what it is supposed to look like as far as pursuit, courting, dating, pacing the relationship and getting to know each other before sex is involved… among other things.

 

So I know the next guy I get involved with, I will plan to repeat that same behavior as I did with him, in the beginning. I think that was the right move, for what it’s worth.

- You are smart enough to know you aren't being honest, but you try to ignore it. At around the six-month mark of your LDR you repeatedly expressed fear that maybe he was comfortable staying long-distance, perhaps he was fine with the status quo and didn't see any need to move to be together. That should have been a cue for a serious talk about making real plans to be together, not the "gosh if we lived together who would move where? And what would we do after our weekly movie date?" stuff you apparently had instead.

 

I’m trying to think back to that time. I will have to re-read the thread soon. I wanted to try and understand though… at that time I was expressing fears…. But didn’t we start having serious discussions about making real plans to be together at that time? It was around early summer that we started talking about it; it was then he began to talk about me moving in with him. So, I don’t know if I follow you.

- You are a terrible judge of actions, behaviors, and consequences (this may tie into the whole lack of reality thing). When a guy checked you out in the street you were sure he was very romantically interested and would call soon. When a guy sent you a last minute text you were over the moon because he was obviously so interested. And now, because a man called you every day, you inexplicably took that to mean he was interested in a serious relationship or marriage with you. As much as I think he may have misled you a bit, you are to blame for deciding that regular phone calls meant he was invested in the relationship. That's the bare minimum for someone in an LDR.

Ok, I see the previous examples with the other guys. Absolutely. Lana, honestly after all I’ve been through.. I truly don’t think that I will ever repeat those thought patterns again, knowing what I know now.

 

But wait. I think he really WAS interested in a serious relationship and potentially marriage with me. I don’t think he called every day just as a bare minimum. We were in love! I think he’s still in love. I do think he was invested in the relationship. I don’t see *this situation* as my being a terrible judge of actions, etc. (I can see the mistakes from the past though). I know he had good intentions and absolutely loved me. I don’t believe he was just skating by doing the bare minimum. BUT, I agree, the fact that all he did was call every day and make these trips, (granted, I must give him credit), at the end of the day he couldn’t give more than that. What I’m trying to say is that I don’t see how that’s my downfall, that I was a terrible judge of actions. My gosh, in the first 6 months or so he was doing the best he could consider the circumstances of the distance. I think he did much more than the bare minimum for quite awhile?! I see what you are saying but in all honesty, I was very sure he loved me and was invested in the relationship. He did a lot more than call every day :*(

 

- I am worried about your judgment more generally. You want a stable, family-oriented man, but think of them as "boring"? What? Lots of my friends are fathers and I wouldn't call a single one of them boring. Desiring a single partner and a lifetime of commitment doesn't make one boring. I think this may be part of why you choose men who aren't good for you---you write them off or categorize them according to unfair criteria. A nice fellow who treats you respectfully is "boring" but a guy who clearly only wants a booty call is "interested"?

Ok, I shouldn’t have used the word “boring”. I do want a stable, family-oriented man and I don’t think that’s boring at all. I think the men I have dated long term (this last one, in particular, mainly because he was long distance) were not.

I meant to say, “consistent” “available” “dedicated” “stable”. That’s not boring at all. I just mean someone who doesn’t rock the boat. Someone on an even keel.

Noooo...I think you definitely made the right decision! It was hard of course, but the right choices often are...

I think they did a study once on the ideal amount of time couples were together before getting married and the most successful times were between 1.5 and 3 years. The thought being that prior to 1.5 years, couples didn't know each other well enough to make a sound decision, and over 3 years suggested there was no real urgency to commit in the first place (i.e. commitment issues).

All this just meaning, that make sure you don't put the cart before the horse moving forward. And yes, you should definitely be filtering for men that know they want marriage and children, but bear in mind this would be a minimum requirement kind of in line with a man that is monogamous (assuming you're monogamous). But bear in mind that a man can certainly want marriage, kids and be monogamous, but still make a terrible husband and father. Or even, want marriage, kids, is monogamous and would make a wonderful husband and father, but still isn't compatible with you!!

And you need to give yourself the time necessary, without pressure, to figure that stuff out...

Weezy, I totally agree with you, that in a normal dating scenario, *being in the same location* anything within a year or so is GENERALLY sufficient time to know and make a move. I think in my current situation, the odds were just stacked against us from the start. I ended it after a year of dating, long distance… but as others said I think if we had lived in the same city it would have either ended sooner or progressed sooner. Won’t ever know now.

But I get what you mean, and you are right about the filtering. You’ll still never know though, unless you give it time… someone mention my strict timeline getting in the way (was that you?) I mean, I’m not as hard and fast as I may make it sound. I think this recent situation just proved to me that a year is plenty of time to either move the relationship forward or not commit to it. But the reason I ended it and didn’t wait is because the year lapsed and he made no concrete moves and initiatives. It doesn’t mean I expect to meet someone, fall in love, get engaged and get pregnant in a year’s time. It’s possible but I don’t demand or expect that of course. I think Lana mentioned about me having the fears around the 6 month mark about him being satisfied with the status quo and how we should have had the serious talks back then (I thought we did?)…I’m a little lost.

 

I still have feelings for him, and I’m having a tough time moving on, and being hopeful. I was the one who told him I don't think we should talk as we have been, so that we can move on. After we met the other night he did text to see if I got back home safely and he let me know his flight was delayed the next day. I still want to reach out but I've been keeping a distance. I still think about him. I know that there needs to be a detachment now. I know he's not good for me, if anything only because he is across the country, and I need more than that.

 

If I keep telling myself we had to break up because of the distance, I think it's easier to accept than accepting everything else. I am completely heartbroken. And I was very sure that he did and does love me. It really hurt me that once he was confronted with the reality of losing me, he wasn't immediately willing to do whatever it takes to close the distance. I realize he can't do anything right this second, fair enough. He knows I'm not willing to wait until if and when he gets here.

 

Maybe if I just take it one step at a time and try and tell myself it's better that I date others now, soon, that it's for the best... I hope that will put me on the right track.

[venusishername]

I re-read a couple pages around the 6 month mark that Lana mentioned when I was concerned if he was satisfied with the status quo and wanted to keep things the way they were. I also read a little about him talking about our future kids and I still do think that he did think all that was a nice idea, just like the idea of moving to CA.

Just glancing at those couple pages, I brought it up (my intentions), put it out there, he gave a noncommittal response ( and I justified that by the short amount of time we had been dating then), and he would talk frequently (and always has) about our wedding, eloping, future kids, rings, if we were married, etc. I mean, did he intentionally mislead me??? I can't understand that.

[NuevoYorko]

Well, I think for the past year, and all my (long term) relationships, I have always had hopes that they were the right person and I was in love. I was fully committed to this relationship and the long term one prior and I sincerely gave my all to make it work. I don’t consider this last year with him “fooling around in a dead end relationship”! I sincerely thought it could work out, and I wanted it to be forever! I really did. I still do love him. So I don’t consider that wasting time.

 

It's absolutely wasting time when you have such defined requirements from a relationship, and you get a clear communication that the person you're seeing does NOT share them. "Always had hopes" and "thought it could work out" are wasting your precious time. Spending your time building a relationship with a man who does not absolutely share your goals and timeline is dead end for you.

 

I'm not questioning your feelings about this guy.

[NuevoYorko]

I re-read a couple pages around the 6 month mark that Lana mentioned when I was concerned if he was satisfied with the status quo and wanted to keep things the way they were. I also read a little about him talking about our future kids and I still do think that he did think all that was a nice idea, just like the idea of moving to CA.

Just glancing at those couple pages, I brought it up (my intentions), put it out there, he gave a noncommittal response ( and I justified that by the short amount of time we had been dating then), and he would talk frequently (and always has) about our wedding, eloping, future kids, rings, if we were married, etc. I mean, did he intentionally mislead me??? I can't understand that.

 

You should read the WHOLE thread, from before this relationship.

 

You've written a lot based on your PROJECTIONS. I read your thread. I knew because you told us that the guy did not share your overarching goal of getting married, or your timeline for it. You've known this and you've acknowledged it many times; but then you do what you just did - switch your narrative to something like "he always told me we'd get married, did he mislead me????" You know that is not the real story here.

 

Edited to add: The pattern is exhibited on literally the first page of this thread, where the "guy #1" gives clear signs of lukewarm interest, you let us all know this, and then you rewrite the story to explain how all the signals of his lukewarm interest do not equal lukewarm interest.

Edited December 28, 2016 by NuevoYorko

[GemmaUK]

Agree with the above and just two posts ago you're re-writing it all in your head again:

 

If I keep telling myself we had to break up because of the distance, I think it's easier to accept than accepting everything else.

 

This is no way to take this and grow (so yes it would all have been a waste of time) as you'll just end up believing the above if you choose to think that.

 

I'm very sorry you're hurting but choosing to make up reasons why you split isn't a learning curve. It's delusional.

[introverted1]

You should read the WHOLE thread, from before this relationship.

 

You've written a lot based on your PROJECTIONS. I read your thread. I knew because you told us that the guy did not share your overarching goal of getting married, or your timeline for it. You've known this and you've acknowledged it many times; but then you do what you just did - switch your narrative to something like "he always told me we'd get married, did he mislead me????" You know that is not the real story here.

 

Edited to add: The pattern is exhibited on literally the first page of this thread, where the "guy #1" gives clear signs of lukewarm interest, you let us all know this, and then you rewrite the story to explain how all the signals of his lukewarm interest do not equal lukewarm interest.

 

 

This!

 

The first posts about being unsure of your current ex's motives surfaced in February! But rather than really listen to what he was saying/doing, you chose to put your own "spin" on things and now here you are, almost a year later, finally realising that he was speaking his truth.

 

It's a pattern that has been evident since page 1 of this thread: whenever a guy shows or tells you something that runs contrary to the narrative you've spun in your head, you look for ways to rationalize his behavior/words. A prime example:

 

It was October 13 when your bf made the comment about wanting a two-year engagement. The logical thing to do would have been to talk more about why he said that -- why did he feel he needed that long, what obstacles did he see, what did he need in order to feel secure, would you live in the same city, how long after the marriage would he be ready for a family, etc.

 

But you didn't do that! You told him "absolutely not," told us he'd "said something stupid," and then forged ahead with YOUR plans without ever really understanding his motives or plans.

 

Venus, please, reread the thread. You consistently project your desires onto men and then find yourself hurt and bewildered when you finally accept that their actions are a true reflection of their desires/character/whatever. Meanwhile, as Nuevo mentions above, people here know what's going on before you do because you tell us! Yet you somehow don't absorb the message even as you are telling us.

 

I am not trying to be harsh with you, V. I just think that until you really understand your own behaviors, and especially the ones that prevent you from operating in your own best interest, you are never going to achieve the outcome you want.

[imaginarium]

Venus, i dated a guy long distance for almost 2 years once. I really loved him, but when I finally had to admit to myself that the gap wasn't closing and I wanted real life, real experience relationships, I ended things and spent 6 months second guessing my decision. But then I got to have real relationships. And just last night, a friend of mine found a slideshow we made of that second year of my relationship from college, and I realized... he's not in a single damn picture of a 15 minute picture slideshow because he didn't have a car and that year only came to visit me once. All the other times I saw him I went to him or we were both home on breaks. How sad the guy I loved isn't evident in my life for a whole year because it was LD. You made the right call.

 

Also, going forward, I agree with everyone else that you spin things to fit your fantasies and then reality blindsides you when it shouldn't. So I'd suggest making a list of all the things you REQUIRE in a relationship. No matter how small or mundane or big picture or whatever. Then, when you date men and they say how they feel about those things, when you come home write down the most literal, word for word things that you can recall them saying about those important things. Then if you start to spin, you have the reality of their intentions right there. And as they talk about more more things, you'll actually have a solid reference of where they stand instead of what you convince yourself they mean, and then you can go from there. Sure that doesn't sound romantic, but given the timelines you want to follow, you may need to take some practical steps as well.

[NuevoYorko]

It's interesting that from the early days of this epic thread, you have been given the identical advice and feedback from a parade of posters, most of whom have evidently decided that you, as you often confirm, are really using this as a journal. A journal is something a person writes for themselves, not for advice or perspectives from outsiders. Those posters aren't here anymore but new ones are, giving the same input as you were getting more than 2 years ago.

 

Here's part of a post to you from member Idoltree, who gave tremendous advice and seemed to really understand you. This is from February, 2015, page 32:

 

P.S. Have you gone back and read your own posts yet? I've mentioned it twice but you never respond.

 

You really need some more self-awareness, and reading about yourself and your patterns will help give it to you. Look for the moments when you get attached, yet insist that you aren't. Look for when you make excuses.

 

That poster seems to have moved on from this thread. 2 years later you're getting the same advice and avoiding it completely.

[Imajerk17]

Well, in fairness to venus, whenever any of us break up with someone we love, we are going to do a lot of spinning. (There's that word again. Why does it come up so often? I must admit it is kind of fun to say. Spin spin spin! But I digress.) The narrative on your relationship is going to keep changing in your head from

 

1. "He was the one leading me on--he never had any real intention on getting serious with me"

 

2. "No I was the one who was too pushy--too focused on marriage and babies (and pressuring him over that) not enough on getting myself down to NOLA first.

 

3. "What we had was beautiful and we both did our best to make this work but we were just too different and lived too far away to ever make this work"

 

 

So you will go spinning from rage to remorse to Zenful acceptance and appreciation, and back. If you want to read more about this, google Helen Fisher.

 

That said venus, I really think it would do you good to write down a list of actionable things you have learned from this relationship and from this thread in general. How are you going to approach dating now? What do you plan on doing differently from before?

[venusishername]

You should read the WHOLE thread, from before this relationship.

You've written a lot based on your PROJECTIONS. I read your thread. I knew because you told us that the guy did not share your overarching goal of getting married, or your timeline for it. You've known this and you've acknowledged it many times; but then you do what you just did - switch your narrative to something like "he always told me we'd get married, did he mislead me????" You know that is not the real story here.

Edited to add: The pattern is exhibited on literally the first page of this thread, where the "guy #1" gives clear signs of lukewarm interest, you let us all know this, and then you rewrite the story to explain how all the signals of his lukewarm interest do not equal lukewarm interest.

I have started to read from page 1. It’s a lot. I can see what you mean about “Guy 1” way back then, two years ago. I see. I made excuses for his lack of interest… we just weren’t a good match anyway so I’m not sure why I did that. I think I wanted it to work, just like this one. Like all of them, really. Reading the way I was at the start of the thread is not even close to the way I’d conduct my dating life now. I would never tolerate or chase someone like “Guy 1” or “R” again. Heck no!

I need to comment specifically on what you said about my current situation. I went back to my post on February 16 of this year, after I had that conversation with him in the car. I told him what I wanted. I told him early on. And his response at the time was along the lines of “you give me something to think about”. He did say, (please correct me if I am misinterpreting this and projecting) that he wants to have a serious relationship and would like to be married again, and would be open to another child with the right person. But that he is not in any rush. That was his truth. I took that to mean, and I’m not sure if I was wrong for this… I thought that we DID want the same things, I just wanted them now and he didn’t. You say he didn’t share my overarching goal of getting married…. I don’t believe that. He talked a lot about marriage, rings, etc. I mean, yes, I DO think he wants to marry again. Back in February we had been dating around 6 months. So I thought it was probably too soon to know for sure if we wanted that with each other, plus the distance…

He said he was open to both with the right person. Can you please confirm and seriously tell me if I’m projecting again. That is what he said again recently. Straight, no spin here. No projection. He’s not in a rush. He doesn’t want to make impulse decisions. He’s not ready. I knew that, and it’s still the same now.

This!

The first posts about being unsure of your current ex's motives surfaced in February! But rather than really listen to what he was saying/doing, you chose to put your own "spin" on things and now here you are, almost a year later, finally realising that he was speaking his truth.

It's a pattern that has been evident since page 1 of this thread: whenever a guy shows or tells you something that runs contrary to the narrative you've spun in your head, you look for ways to rationalize his behavior/words. A prime example:

It was October 13 when your bf made the comment about wanting a two-year engagement. The logical thing to do would have been to talk more about why he said that -- why did he feel he needed that long, what obstacles did he see, what did he need in order to feel secure, would you live in the same city, how long after the marriage would he be ready for a family, etc.

But you didn't do that! You told him "absolutely not," told us he'd "said something stupid," and then forged ahead with YOUR plans without ever really understanding his motives or plans.

 

Venus, please, reread the thread. You consistently project your desires onto men and then find yourself hurt and bewildered when you finally accept that their actions are a true reflection of their desires/character/whatever. Meanwhile, as Nuevo mentions above, people here know what's going on before you do because you tell us! Yet you somehow don't absorb the message even as you are telling us.

I am not trying to be harsh with you, V. I just think that until you really understand your own behaviors, and especially the ones that prevent you from operating in your own best interest, you are never going to achieve the outcome you want.

Thank you for pointing to a specific post. That was extremely helpful.

[lana-banana]

He did say, (please correct me if I am misinterpreting this and projecting) that he wants to have a serious relationship and would like to be married again, and would be open to another child with the right person. But that he is not in any rush. That was his truth.

 

This is slightly different than:

 

He said he was open to both with the right person...That is what he said again recently.

 

I'm assuming the "recently" was after you broke up, because talking about "the right person" and not specifying you while you were together would have been an auto-breakup for me.

 

I took that to mean, and I’m not sure if I was wrong for this… I thought that we DID want the same things, I just wanted them now and he didn’t.

 

Yes, Venus, you were wrong about this. He did not say "I want to marry once I meet the right person"; he said if he met the right person then he might be open to it. There's a huge difference. He didn't share your goal of getting married at all. It was, at best, a possibility. Even if he did meet Mrs. Right, he wasn't set on marrying her. He was open to it. "Open to it" is so vague as to be meaningless. It is what I tell my fiancé when he asks about buying a Tesla.

 

That aside, the fact that you had such drastically different timelines should have been reason enough to call it quits. He was willing to explore marriage with you if (emphasis on if!) you turned out to be the right one for him. You wanted to be married right now. If you are that serious about starting a family quickly then you never should have continued.

 

Another thing:

 

It really hurt me that once he was confronted with the reality of losing me, he wasn't immediately willing to do whatever it takes to close the distance.

 

This hearkens back to the early days of this thread and your other epic (for content, not length) thread about B. You may struggle with your self-esteem, but as sagamore and idoltree pointed out, you have a real ego about your appearance, desirability, and sexual prowess, which makes it harder for you to accept rejection. Rejection is tough for everybody, but you seem unable to swallow that there are men out there who CAN meet you, interact with you and even sleep with you, and not stay interested. In this case he was interested but not enough to continue the relationship. He was perfectly happy to talk on the phone and see you every now and then. He didn't need more than that and was fine with losing you. And that sounds the part of you that desires grand sweeping gestures from big, brave heroes who rescue you from...whatever perils you're encountering in California. I don't know. New taxes, maybe?

 

All this to say I think maybe your ego is a factor in your judgment and reluctance to accept things as they are. You might make better decisions if you could understand that you will be flat-out rejected sometimes and not every man, not even a long-term partner, will be willing to fight for you.

[venusishername]

I'm assuming the "recently" was after you broke up, because talking about "the right person" and not specifying you while you were together would have been an auto-breakup for me.

No, the recently was during the relationship, and lately too.

He said he was open to it with the right person, and time would tell.

Either way, “the right person” was interjected at times (during the relationship) with me, yes. He talked about “if we were married”. He would say things like “I can see doing those things with you”. Seriously, I think I must be stupid, dense, or am getting in my way here because I guess I’m not seeing it. Can you tell me what it SHOULD sound like? Maybe I’m getting in my own way here, but I’m sincerely confused.

Yes, Venus, you were wrong about this. He did not say "I want to marry once I meet the right person"; he said if he met the right person then he might be open to it. There's a huge difference. He didn't share your goal of getting married at all. It was, at best, a possibility. Even if he did meet Mrs. Right, he wasn't set on marrying her. He was open to it. "Open to it" is so vague as to be meaningless. It is what I tell my fiancé when he asks about buying a Tesla.

I suppose I took that to mean he was interested in marrying again and having a family whether he said “if” or “once”. I can see why you tell me that I “spun” it to suit what I wanted to hear. I think you’re right… it was at best, a possibility. He talked about in the future as if we needed to live in the same city (agreed) in order to determine if we were compatible, and only until then he would be ready to commit to something like that. I mean, in my mind that sounded reasonable. I wouldn’t want to commit to marriage unless we had time spent in person in the same city and we found we could work through normal issues like that. Are you telling me that instead it should have looked like, “I want to settle down and get married and have my own family in the very near future”. Is that what is supposed to sound like? Is that the ONLY thing I should accept from here on out? No wishy washiness… is that right?

That aside, the fact that you had such drastically different timelines should have been reason enough to call it quits. He was willing to explore marriage with you if (emphasis on if!) you turned out to be the right one for him. You wanted to be married right now. If you are that serious about starting a family quickly then you never should have continued.

I don’t want to be married right now, (I mean, yes, I would like to have been married when I was 25 to my last long term boyfriend), but seriously Lana, I wasn’t expecting marriage, kids, the whole shebang, especially being long distance, in under 2 years. The fact that we are long distance slowed things down a lot. I think had we dated in the same city it would have been very different.

Lana, sometimes lately I’ve started to think that my desire to be married and start my own family in the very near future is a goal that maybe I should reconsider., I’m so fragile and hurt right now.. I can’t help but think that. What if I NEVER meet anyone who wants the same things, am compatible with, etc. etc. Maybe I’m expecting too much too soon? Maybe I f’ed up a great thing between us because I wasn’t willing to wait. Maybe I’ll never get what I want, if only I had stuck it out a little longer, I could have potentially had that with him.

In this case he was interested but not enough to continue the relationship. He was perfectly happy to talk on the phone and see you every now and then. He didn't need more than that and was fine with losing you.

But I just can’t believe that he’s fine with losing me. He told me that in person, the other day. That he doesn’t want to lose me. I just can’t believe that he was insincere and didn’t want something real and serious. I mean, I met his family. He told me even his ex wife never was around his extended family like I have been. He asked to meet my extended family. Of course he wanted to see me more than just now and again. I don’t see it as bluntly as you put it. Do you sincerely believe that he was just satisfied with having a long distance, noncommittal, sometimes relationship? I have had doubts about that myself, as you have reminded me. But I know for certain that he has truly loved me and didn’t view me or treat me as just a casual, sometimes thing. It WAS more than that!

[Redhead14]

No, the recently was during the relationship, and lately too.

He said he was open to it with the right person, and time would tell.

Either way, “the right person” was interjected at times (during the relationship) with me, yes. He talked about “if we were married”. He would say things like “I can see doing those things with you”. Seriously, I think I must be stupid, dense, or am getting in my way here because I guess I’m not seeing it. Can you tell me what it SHOULD sound like? Maybe I’m getting in my own way here, but I’m sincerely confused.

 

I suppose I took that to mean he was interested in marrying again and having a family whether he said “if” or “once”. I can see why you tell me that I “spun” it to suit what I wanted to hear. I think you’re right… it was at best, a possibility. He talked about in the future as if we needed to live in the same city (agreed) in order to determine if we were compatible, and only until then he would be ready to commit to something like that. I mean, in my mind that sounded reasonable. I wouldn’t want to commit to marriage unless we had time spent in person in the same city and we found we could work through normal issues like that. Are you telling me that instead it should have looked like, “I want to settle down and get married and have my own family in the very near future”. Is that what is supposed to sound like? Is that the ONLY thing I should accept from here on out? No wishy washiness… is that right?

I don’t want to be married right now, (I mean, yes, I would like to have been married when I was 25 to my last long term boyfriend), but seriously Lana, I wasn’t expecting marriage, kids, the whole shebang, especially being long distance, in under 2 years. The fact that we are long distance slowed things down a lot. I think had we dated in the same city it would have been very different.

Lana, sometimes lately I’ve started to think that my desire to be married and start my own family in the very near future is a goal that maybe I should reconsider., I’m so fragile and hurt right now.. I can’t help but think that. What if I NEVER meet anyone who wants the same things, am compatible with, etc. etc. Maybe I’m expecting too much too soon? Maybe I f’ed up a great thing between us because I wasn’t willing to wait. Maybe I’ll never get what I want, if only I had stuck it out a little longer, I could have potentially had that with him.

 

But I just can’t believe that he’s fine with losing me. He told me that in person, the other day. That he doesn’t want to lose me. I just can’t believe that he was insincere and didn’t want something real and serious. I mean, I met his family. He told me even his ex wife never was around his extended family like I have been. He asked to meet my extended family. Of course he wanted to see me more than just now and again. I don’t see it as bluntly as you put it. Do you sincerely believe that he was just satisfied with having a long distance, noncommittal, sometimes relationship? I have had doubts about that myself, as you have reminded me. But I know for certain that he has truly loved me and didn’t view me or treat me as just a casual, sometimes thing. It WAS more than that!

 

That he doesn’t want to lose me -- He probably doesn't want to lose you, but . . . he wants you on HIS terms right now. He was at least content with the way "things were". He is fine with "losing" you or he wouldn't have let you go.

 

Maybe I’m expecting too much too soon? -- You were expecting things to happen too soon for this situation and on the "usual" time line that a "local" relationship would be expected to develop. This situation would most certainly take much longer to develop to the point of marriage because of the distance. Relationships take up close and personal interaction/observation on a regular and frequent basis to develop. Skype, phone, text a couple of vacations don't cut it.

 

Forget about all the maybes, what could have beens and rest on your decision. And, if you have to drop your expectations and wants and needs for yourself in order to stay with a man, it's not going to work. You would have found yourself being resentful and unfulfilled. You made your decision based on what you want for yourself and you weren't getting enough confirmation from him that those things would be met in a time that was reasonable for YOU.

 

Just because things "might" have been different if . . . doesn't mean your decision isn't the right one now.