Some help wanted - after a very unusual breakup [update]

[loversquarrel]

If I were you I'd keep my distance. She has shown herself to not be the most reasonable of people. I would get a lawyer and file court paperwork to get your engagement ring back. It will be enjoyable for you to watch her reaction.

[SoThatHappened]

Come down on us all you want, OP, but here are the facts you've given us:

 

- She dropped you out of the blue

- Blocked you and had her friends and family block you

- Threatened a restraining order

- Threatened calling the police

- Has hurt your daughter

- Has gently come back into your daughter's life, likely using her to test the waters.

 

Now, call us unforgiving or bitter, but you've asked for the advice. The advice from everyone has been consistent and rings true in my experience.

 

Go ahead. Contact her and maybe let her back in your life. It's your life after all.

 

I would advise to not contact her. You can still forgive her on your own. But why risk your heart and your daughter's heart for someone who did all these things to you?

 

You really need to take a look under your own hood, my friend. Your daughter is #1, you are #2, and your ex is your ex because she CHOSE to be.

[JartyTek]

@LQ...thanks again....but....I really am not looking for reasons why I should forget about her at this time and what actions I should take AGAINST her....I am STILL committed and am looking for understanding about her and, ultimately, a strategy to get her back...I explained this in my last post....all friendship and good will towards you....

 

I am prepared to FIGHT to keep her...she is worth it....ANYONE that you spent 2 years with and you had mostly good times with is worth it....I realize that there is another person with her own ideas and agenda involved here and that it might not work, but I am NOT a quitter; I am committed and am prepared to fight for something thats good for me and her. Again: yes, what she did was REALLY sh*TTy, but I cannot look back at our relationship and judge it a complete wash over this. She has an emotional problem that had caused this.

 

Do you see this now? I understand that it might be against your best advice, but this is the road that I want to go down. Can you help me with it?

[BC1980]

@LQ...thanks again....but....I really am not looking for reasons why I should forget about her at this time and what actions I should take AGAINST her....I am STILL committed and am looking for understanding about her and, ultimately, a strategy to get her back...I explained this in my last post....all friendship and good will towards you....

 

I am prepared to FIGHT to keep her...she is worth it....ANYONE that you spent 2 years with and you had mostly good times with is worth it....I realize that there is another person with her own ideas and agenda involved here and that it might not work, but I am NOT a quitter; I am committed and am prepared to fight for something thats good for me and her. Again: yes, what she did was REALLY sh*TTy, but I cannot look back at our relationship and judge it a complete wash over this. She has an emotional problem that had caused this.

 

Do you see this now? I understand that it might be against your best advice, but this is the road that I want to go down. Can you help me with it?

 

I won't give you reasons you shouldn't take her back or forgive her, but I would encourage you to consider that in her end, she clearly wants NC with you. She very clearly wants nothing to do with you and left you in a cruel manner. I agree with everyone else here that contacting her would hurt you further, but I don't think are interested in yourself to be honest.

[JartyTek]

Thats not necessarily true based on the past....again, I am not at all asking for reasons why I should not contact her or for substantiation for that.

[Ronni_W]

I've been through this a zillion times in my head: there was nothing that I did that caused this

JartyTek,

Are you at all open to it, that you don't know what you don't know, so...the VERY BEST that can be said is that there is nothing of which you are consciously aware that you did, that caused this?

Put another way, someone once told me that we must always make the allowance for the so-called "impossible" to become possible.

 

It is a very long stretch to try to make her contact with people she knows to mean that she was actually trying to contact you. It is more in the realm of 'flights of fancy' and 'wishful thinking'. It does not matter your relationship with those same people whom she contacted.

 

It is possible that she is perfectly empowered, and capable of making proper and appropriate decisions in managing and directing her own life. At least, that SHE feels thus empowered and capable. In any case, if she is ("merely") working through and playing out her own cosmic or karmic drama...then you will continue to feel confused and hurt as long as you keep yourself in harm's way.

[BC1980]

Guys....I really, really appreciate your thoughts...its good to discuss this stuff....But I want to stress my position: I am not asking for reasons why I shouldn't take her back....and I don't think that declarations about my own possible lack of sanity are helpful either. I had an excellent 2 years with this person and I miss those times. She did something EXTREMELY stupid and hurtful for reasons that she probably doesn't even understand. At this point, I am prepared to forgive what she did given that there is possibility to eliminate any possibility for future occurrence. I am COMMITTED to this.

 

As far as NC goes, I am seeing it as a period where, among other things, is a time to allow emotions to cool off and then to reflect on positive elements of a relationship against negative ones and make a decision regarding what happens next. NC is not a 'F*&% You!!!' gesture formalized.

As I am remain COMMITTED to this relationship (even though I am fully cognizant of the facts regarding what she said and did....-remember, she was not thinking RATIONALLY)...if you have some thoughts regarding approaching her and how to do it, I would really like to hear them.

 

Thanks

 

You keep saying she made a mistake, what she did was stupid, she wasn't rational, and she doesn't understand her own motives. The reality is that she doesn't agree with your view of things. You are absolutely projecting your feelings about her actions onto her. It's important for you to realize that she feels a completely different way than you, and she views the situation in a completely different light. There's really nothing you can do to change that. Breaking NC would actually make it worse because you would be telling her that she is wrong, you are right, and you are here to set her straight and resume the relationship. She won't take well to that.

 

I know you want us to give you ideas of a good way to contact her, but there is a reason that not a single poster has told you to contact her. There truly is no good way, but I almost think you need to to contact her so you can see for yourself. I think it might do you some good to get smacked with the reality of it.

 

Regarding NC, it's not a f*ck you gesture. I don't see one poster who has suggested that. NC is basically a tool to heal because it takes you away from the source of your pain. It allows you the time you need to mourn and see the relationship objectively. You can't accomplish healing with a front row seat to your ex moving on. Further more, you are entirely too emotional to handle any contact with her. Right now, you are in a lot of denial, which is normal. I would guess that every single person here went through some kind of denial. Especially since your ending was so abrupt, I can understand the denial.

[newmoon]

NC is forever. Once gone, stay gone.

[April Moon]

I understand that the no contact rule period can vary from person to person; generally a month but as much as 6 for others. But I am wondering if mine is over.

 

 

You don't understand NC or the point of it. Honestly, NC should at LEAST be for 6 months. No one can be completely healed in a month (unless they didn't care to start with).

 

As long as you are blocked by someone, that means they don't want to talk to you.

[Ronni_W]

She took what seems to be very controlled, measured, well-thought-out, logical, rational, deliberate steps in, what seems to be her desire to have you permanently out of her life. She even waited until you were out of town.

 

These are not actually signs of mental or emotional instability, nor irrationality. Add to that, that *EVEN IF* it was some kind of "temporary madness", generally/usually the person would, after all the time that's elapsed in your situation, have experienced their "change of heart/mind" as it were, by now, and she would have been reaching out to you for all she's worth. THAT'S far more often how unstableness of the mind/heart plays out.

 

It still sucks. So, if/when your inner torment and turmoil get too much to bear, then contact her (or at least try to, through whatever available channels). Only you can decide if being able to eliminate (at least some of) the inner crap can or will outweigh whatever negative consequences might arise. (Not saying that there WILL be negative outcomes, only potentially so because of the lawyer's letter that she ordered be sent to you.)

 

Regardless, I am sorry that you've been going through all of this.

[angel.eyes]

You mentioned in another thread that you've broken up five times. Five times in two years is pretty unstable. Sorry, but that's not a healthy, happy relationship. Each breakup had flavors of this behavior, but this was the most drastic by your report.

 

You're so insistent in thread after thread that the relationship SHALL be resumed because YOU are firmly committed to it, and she is just temporarily irrational. Doesn't her view of whether she wants to be with you not count?

 

I wonder if she was essentially forced to break up in this manner--moving out quickly and disappearing the day you were way, sending letters to leave her alone via lawyers, threatening police involvement, freezing you out of her social circle, etc.--because you repeatedly refuse to accept the reality that she no longer wants a relationship with you. (No offense, but it's the story typical of an abuse victim who flees to a safe house while the abuser is out because she fears for her life.)

 

Why do you continue to pursue someone who very clearly wants YOU completely out of her life?

 

As Shakespeare wrote, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[angel.eyes]

If I were you I'd keep my distance. She has shown herself to not be the most reasonable of people. I would get a lawyer and file court paperwork to get your engagement ring back. It will be enjoyable for you to watch her reaction.

 

As I recall, she left the ring and some of her own valuables at his house when she hurriedly moved all her belongings out. When he tried to contact her about these, she told him to toss them in the trash, and threatened to involve the police if he tried to track her down.

[Mr. Lucky]

You're so insistent in thread after thread that the relationship SHALL be resumed because YOU are firmly committed to it, and she is just temporarily irrational. Doesn't her view of whether she wants to be with you not count?

At this point JartyTek, the only one acting irrationally is you.

 

Let's say her motivation was simply the desire for a non-confrontational break-up. She would leave when you weren't there, refuse to talk to you directly or through social media and take steps so you couldn't find or contact her.

 

In short, everything she's done. And while it isn't fair, it's certainly within her rights.

 

You want a clear sign she wants to be with you? Let her contact you, I'll assume you're not hard to find...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JartyTek]

Guys....I know that you all really mean well but this is really becoming unproductive and somewhat mean spirited against ME, oddly enough. There is nothing wrong in Denmark and I am not being irrational. I asked for a SPECIFIC kind of advice and instead I got 1001 reasons not to do all you can to get back to your ex. Yeah, the ex that dump me in a very mean way but that I had 2 years of bliss with. Yeah, she did this before but I know that she has a problem. I am convinced of her love and commitment for me as well, though I am not sure if I could ever take her back. I JUST want to get her talking.

 

I did NOT ask anyone for an judgement about me and what I should do to stay away from this woman, I was rather specific about this. Nor did I ask anyone for a statement regarding my motives or level of rationality. Yet I feel hat there is a smack down happening. Does ANYONE see the forest for the trees? Do any of you feel that there is value AT ALL to taking risk in salvaging something that had value in a loving and caring relationship (YES IT WAS!!!).

 

Again...I would like advice on HOW TO GET HER TO COMMUNICATE WITH ME and an INTERPRETATION of if her attempts indicate a willingness. If your remarks are associated with my level of sanity and motives, her compatibility with me, etc. please, that is NOT what I am looking for and what is not valuable to me.

 

thank you.

[SycamoreCircle]

Well, if she is indeed in love with you, then just relax...she'll be back.

 

She'll eventually say to herself, "what am I doing? I can't live without this man. I'm going to call off the dogs and let him know I'm sorry."

 

As you say, she may want you to chase her down to prove your love to her, to rescue her. But irrational thoughts usually give way to other irrational thoughts. She'll start to miss you. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[BC1980]

Again...I would like advice on HOW TO GET HER TO COMMUNICATE WITH ME and an INTERPRETATION of if her attempts indicate a willingness. If your remarks are associated with my level of sanity and motives, her compatibility with me, etc. please, that is NOT what I am looking for and what is not valuable to me.

 

thank you.

 

I mean, if she threatened legal action if you contact her, we can't really tell you to contact her. In good conscience, I can't advocate that you attempt to talk to her at this point. I guess I would wonder why you think she would even be open to talking with you if she has threatened legal action?

 

We can't give you any ideas because no one, in their right mind, would try to chase down someone who said they will call the cops or whatever she said. You keep saying she has a problem, which is why she has broken up with you five times in two years. What is her problem? This is so confusing.

[JartyTek]

Please consider the following...it is as if this were written specifically about her (and her son by extension)...perhaps I have the wrong forum (and that is NOT a dig):

 

1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.

 

2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end.

 

3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.

 

4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy.

 

5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.

 

6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.

 

7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships.

 

8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control.

 

9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.

 

10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people.

 

11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.

 

12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.

 

13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.

[loversquarrel]

I certainly understand you are not in a good emotional state right now - who could blame you? I don't think anyone here is trying to shun or hurt you, I think most here are passionate about helping others out of a desperate situation. If I may ask... What were the reasons for the previous breakups? were they all one sided - her breaking up with you?, Were they all within a span of two years?, The reasons behind these break ups might help to better understand and assist you in your original question.

[JartyTek]

LQ...I was very frustrated by asking for specific thoughts and others entirely ignoring specifically what I was looking for and THEN going beyond that to insist that I do this or that or impeaching me. Thats not helpful at all.

 

Consider the above list. She fits into this group. She has problems with intimacy, serious problems. The arguments were always over reactions to a PERCEIVED issue upon review after the fact (we euphemistically referred to them as misunderstandings). In reality, she has intimacy problems. I see NOW that she had destroyed all of her relationships this way. There was always some nebulous excuse as to what happened that I really didn't prod to better understand. But with all of her relationships, anger and resentment lingers.

 

So, in each and every case with her and I, there was some BS that went down...her reaction was to go nuclear.....she would then declare that she wanted to break up....in a week to 4 weeks, there would be a 'unfinished business- email (here is the logon to your website, etc.)...then a phone call....then there would be anger from her (misplaced....I never knew where it was coming from)....I would calm her down and answer her questions (they were almost always her insisting that, 'if this happens then YOU would do this or think this': I almost had to repeat as a mantra, 'No I wouldn't, please do not make decisions on my behalf'. THEN there was the face to face after the phone call. Upon seeing me, she would begin to weep (she NEVER cried otherwise) and, in her own words, say 'when I saw you, it was an overwhelming feeling that all is right with the world'. She would then tell me that she was sorry and that she needed to 'see someone'. To my error, I would tell her that WE would work through any problems and that all will be ok. Everything was swept under the rug and forgotten about...until the next time. This repeated itself almost IDENTICALLY 5 times (the previous time she attempted some of the scorched earth but not like this time). It was almost as if her irrational self was preventing a later rational self with the ability to go backwards EVEN if she wanted to.

 

Is this getting easier to understand?

[loversquarrel]

Yes, there is the history I was looking for and helps explain that this didn't just come out of nowhere. You have it in front of you and you certainly know her better than anyone of us. My best guess on how to proceed would be by staying away...for now. It would be best to let things simmer down until she can come around. She put up some pretty serious boundaries and right now you have to deal with that.

 

If you want this to work you will most certainly have to break the cycle, with professional help. She must be willing, you cannot force her into therapy but she needs it and needs it badly. You may have to come to terms with this and prepare for the loss of her. I only say this because what is in front of you is sadly an uphill battle, and i'm only saying this because right now she doesn't seem willing to own her baggage. Things may change in a few weeks, I'm not sure though.

[SoThatHappened]

Is this getting easier to understand?

Nope. But it's getting easier to understand why she threatened legal action against you.

 

You clearly want to hear what you want to hear. You're not going to get that from this forum.

 

You need to cut your losses and walk away. Regardless if it was her fault, your fault, her instability, your instability, whatever.

 

You're being narcissistic by trying to force people to see things the way you want them to be seen.

 

You're the one who can't see the forest for the trees. Collectively, this forum could try to answer your "real" questions, but it wouldn't make a difference. It would all be conjecture.

[JartyTek]

@LQ...thats exactly the type of insight that I need....thats for really trying to understand...this is not an ordinary breakup and requires a special perspective ...I think that you are seeing through my eyes now...

 

What do you believe her thinking was when she contacted my daughter and my buddy's wife?

 

@STH...sorry, I am saying this with the most respect and manners: you don't get this and you do want to get this. Your remarks are abrasive and TOTALLY unproductive, and frankly, rude. Is your response to everything so nihilistic? I told you over and over again that unless you have any comments that support what MY stated interest is to NOT RESPOND. And here you go again, more and more frustrated by what I want to do (counter to your insistence). It says more about you than me. Please stop.

[April Moon]

If she wants to speak to you, she will unblock you and reach out to you. Until she does that, she does not want to speak to you or have her contact you.

[loversquarrel]

I wish I could answer that. The problem you have to really contend with is dealing with what you know, everything else is speculation. You have to be careful with this, it could land you in some trouble with the law. I also am of the opinion that you should protect your daughter from this, she doesn't need to be dragged into this problem. I still think you need to wait it out a bit.

[JartyTek]

Fair enough if you think that she needs more time, I don't think that it would hurt. Reading an ACOA site something resonating with me: the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior...I think that it was appropriate to this case. The other thing that I failed to mention that compels me to believe that the time is now is that she more or less admitted in the past that she really wanted me to come and get her....doesn't make much sense to me but its trued: you broke up with me and you wnat me to come and GET you?!?! At that time I signed up for a singles site: she stalked me there and was FURIOUS that I had done so. After the fact I told her, 'well....you DID break up with me....' ...she really didn't have a good response to this, but it was clear, at least at that time, that REALLY breaking up was not her intention.

 

All things considered, she has painted herself into a corner now where, even if she wanted to, she could not send a subtle hint that she wants to talk,. Makes it difficult to gauge when I should approach her. Again, its been close to 6 weeks.