I Just Have To Get This Off My Chest

[WWDD]

If you won't even listen to some good advice here, then continue on the miserable path you're on right now. Pathetic.

 

Presumptuous personal attacks don't count as advice in my book, but thank you for yours.

 

First - Have you ever been tested for any kind of developmental disorder like aspergers? Your super logical way of looking at this, along with the fact that you said you were an engineer, is kind of a give away that you have some sort of social issues.

 

I really doubt I have aspergers. No one has ever brought this up to me and I have no problem talking to people. I have pretty good social skills and make friends easily. I type like this because I like to be crystal clear in getting my point across, and have plenty of time to word things right (although I seem to keep failing at that anyway). Just because I like using big words doesn't make it more likely that I have a social disorder.

 

I actually ended up in engineering by accident. I'd just finished uni and was offered the job by my part-time employers to train up and work as an engineer until I found something else. I've been there for almost three years now and the work's interesting enough with the freedom and variety I get, but apart from Saturdays during the letting Season, there aren't many other people or colleagues about, which is what I hate about the job the most, and the reason I'm looking elsewhere right now.

I actually miss the work environment from when I was working part time in a supermarket. The work was crap and I wouldn't want to do it full time, but it's the tons of colleagues and customers that I could talk to that I loved about it. So no, I don't think I could have aspergers, it's definitely not 'social' issues I have.

 

My problems seem to lie only in romantic relationships. I think it's a mix between a lot of potential things. I never had a permanent male role model (my parents split when I was 3, and my father died when I was 9). I was bullied almost completely throughout high school only because I made friends with a dyspraxic boy who was bullied even worse. Chose a subject at uni which mostly consisted of males, and studied from home as the uni wasn't far away, so I was rarely on campus for social stuff. Combine all that with being the typical 'nice guy', and insecurity leads to rejection and loneliness, which leads to more insecurity, and so on and so on. And now there's just this massive brick wall that separates me from romance that I can't break through, and no one else on the other side is stupid enough to try breaking through it either. But 'nice guys' have no problem making friends, there's only one thing they can never have. It was just a slippery slope from the beginning.

 

Second - No one has to know you're a virgin. Till this day, the woman who took my virginity has no idea.

 

But they can tell can't they. It's like pretending you can fly a fighter jet, someone's gonna find out before you're able to land it back down, especially when you missed your chance to use the simulators.

 

Third - Here's your issue, sexuality is not a logical thing. You're trying to logic something that's emotional. You're saying I have this, this and this, so logically I should have this and I don't. That's simply not how sexuality works. You need to put the right vibe and make someone feel a certain way. You have to learn how to make someone feel that way about you.

 

I admit I tend to generally approach things on a logical basis, but I was only clarifying that I'm not particularly ugly, obese or introverted. If I hadn't described myself, anybody could presume that I'm some fat stuttering introvert who spends his life in his attic playing World of Warcraft.

I wasn't trying to imply that my skills and physical description alone owe me a relationship. The real thing that frustrates me is when women will go out of their way to say what a great guy I am and that they can't believe I'm single. It gets a little raw after a while when you've never been shown any attraction.

 

As soon they say "lets be friends" nothing will develop. This is a cowards way of trying to gain attraction.... it has never worked for you now has it? You just go off about being led on. They told you friends, and you need to take their word for it.

 

I was told by multiple women on THIS FORUM at the time that using the 'f' word was just her 'safety blanket' to avoid any pressure, and that it sounded like she was really into me. One of them even said that they were "100% sure of this". A couple of my friends and family who I'd asked for advice also agreed with this, and my uncle was also 100% sure, so please don't call me a coward for believing them.

 

And what I totally forgot to mention when you said I should have set boundaries "letting her know, it's not acceptable unless you are dating each other". This is actually exactly what I did, I was just too patient with her and left it too long. I told her something along the lines that I didn't know where I stood with her because of how ambiguous she kept being, that we had a lot in common and that I really liked her, but if she knew for a fact that she couldn't see me as anything more than a friend then we should stop seeing each other. She instantly dropped me like a hot rock, which I'm sure was also my fault.

 

Anyways I have coached guy worse than you. And what you say is nothing I haven't heard before. They learned from my instructions, worked with them, and they have GFs now or at least getting laid. All it was, was a change in perspective, and bam it worked.

 

When you say guys worse than me, in what way do you mean? Older virgins, or guys who have bigger self-esteem issues, or do you mean guys with worse 'attitudes' than you presume me to have?

Depending on which you mean, I might be able to break into a side of me that I've never had a chance to develop. I think all I need is one good fighting chance to change things round for myself, but it's easier said than done.

 

With this type of attitude you are going to end up never finding love. before you seek love and affirmation from others (especially complete strangers on an internet forum) you need to learn to love yourself and give yourself positive affirmations for your existence. There's nothing wrong with you except your mindset, and fortunately that can be changed. but if you don't change it you're going to continue being miserable.

 

My attitude and the way I feel are not the cause, they're the effect. I can promise you that. It's only very recently that I've hit a breaking point and have become so angry about this. Until then I wasn't stressed about it and had a silly naive perception that I could rest easy knowing that one day something would happen. I now know how stupid that was.

 

In sum, you need to be a bit more proactive before you resign yourself. You should never resign yourself either. It could take years to find a good partner. but you'll appreciate her all the more once you get her, then. And she'll appreciate you if you are mentally present in the relationship and not worried about whether you are suitable/worthy. Good luck and dont give up

 

After so much consistent negative feedback from attempts Ive made, it's virtually impossible to retain the mindset you presume I've always lacked. I just don't have the energy for it anymore. I mean, how would anybody honestly feel in this predicament?

 

BTW, I don't know why everyone keeps assuming my harshness and frustration on here reflects the way I generally am. Of course I'm going to say things on this anonymous forum that I would never convey in my life. I mean I'm sure those of you who have had quite harsh things to say to me are not that blunt or nasty to people in real life.

 

If any of you had met me in real life, you'd have fed me the same "I can't believe you don't have a girlfriend" lines everybody else gives me.

 

What is OLD anyway?

Edited October 24, 2014 by WWDD

[smackie9]

All of the above. One I could barely get a few sentences in before his anxiety shot through the roof, and signed off. One I'm still working with, he is 27/28 now and still is a virgin, and it's not from the lack of opportunity. The attitude varies,but the same fomula.... bitterniess, frustration, anxiety, hoplessness, anger, etc.

 

 

OLD =On Line Dating.

[BlueIris]

 

......

I admit I tend to generally approach things on a logical basis, but I was only clarifying that I'm not particularly ugly, obese or introverted. If I hadn't described myself, anybody could presume that I'm some fat stuttering introvert who spends his life in his attic playing World of Warcraft.

 

.....

BTW, I don't know why everyone keeps assuming my harshness and frustration on here reflects the way I generally am. Of course I'm going to say things on this anonymous forum that I would never convey in my life. I mean I'm sure those of you who have had quite harsh things to say to me are not that blunt or nasty to people in real life.

 

Because it’s impossible. It is possible that people do not see or hear the inner/real you in day to day life, but that's because people don’t pay attention to such things most of the time. People are in their own lives, thoughts and feelings most of the time- just like you are. But when someone really pays attention to another person, they do notice more than someone’s appearance and outer persona. Angry harsh people can hold their mask on only so long, and with time or a closer look, it is seen. Furthermore, some people are more adept at reading other people and they see it much more quickly.

 

This is another one of those mental/emotional blocks that angry hateful people have in common- they don’t perceive themselves accurately and they blame external forces instead of even daring to take a close look at themselves. I presume it’s because they are terrified to look within and it’s just easier to blame outwardly.

 

Also, you are extremely emotional and reactive, not logical. You might be trying to understand emotional parts of life by applying logic, but your logic breaks repeatedly, because this is all emotional stuff. It's ok, normal and healthy to be emotional about relationships. So maybe the first step is to embrace your emotions and really look at your anger, hatred and frustration and consider that they are possibly related to sadness and fear that life, relationship and women are not what you thought they were, then or now. You are not getting something that you want or thought you'd have. That's your own internal work to do. Make peace with the fact that you are extremely emotional and that logic isn't going to solve this for you.

Edited October 24, 2014 by BlueIris

[hotpotato]

Some of the stuff you complain about could be said about both sexes. People in general like extroverted individuals who show interest in them. People like flirty people.

 

I knew when you said "nice guy" you were going to come with anger.

 

You may not say those things irl, but women can probably sense something isnt quite right.

 

9x out of 10, nice guy threads have a "Why wont that dumb stupid ho date me? I am so wonderful!" vibe.

 

You may be passive aggressive, too.

 

-From a former Nice Girl

[WWDD]

Look, I'm not generally angry and hateful. I'm raw and fed up and needed somewhere to vent. Everybody does this. I never said I thought I was a nice guy anyway, it's the identity women give me.

 

I'll admit I'm a little cynical, but definitely not hateful. And if I were, why would women always be telling me that they can't believe I'm single?

 

BTW, I was only explaining my 'logical thinking' because several people here brought it up.

Edited October 24, 2014 by WWDD

[kripster]

I am one of those jaded guys who has been conditioned by my life experience to hate women. I'm a 25 year old virgin who has never kissed or been kissed by a girl and has never even been on a date.

I can imagine the kind of picture of myself that I might be painting here; Some pastey, zit-ridden, 250lb lump of cholesterol who is glued to his computer with no respectable hobbies or traits and without any kind of social life. In fact, I am nothing like this, so I'm going to try to create a detailed and objective outline of who I am.

 

I'm actually relatively good-looking (or so I'm often told); green eyes, light-brown hair, perhaps I could be taller (5'8”), about 140lb and just slightly on the muscular side. I always dress well, most often wearing smart-casual shirts with blue or black undamaged jeans or trousers. I always take good care of my general appearance.

 

I have a few dedicated hobbies. I'm a musician who mainly sings and plays guitar, but I also play the bass guitar, the violin, the piano and the banjo. I write, record and mix my own music, and at least most of it is pretty damn good.

I also participate in target archery and am an avid reader. I've even started having a go at writing my own novels.

 

Although I'm looking for something else right now, I hold a good job as a marine engineer and company representative.

I'm intelligent, articulate and can hold conversations well. Although a little reserved at first, I'm generally very friendly and amiable (which I've come to learn is something that actually works against me in romantic situations).

 

Although I have no siblings, I have a large extended family with eight cousins that I'm very close to. On top of that, I have a reasonably good social life. The thing is, none of my cousins, friends or acquaintances (male or female) can understand why I don't currently have a girlfriend. Even some strangers I've met at weddings etc. have commented on it. The few of my friends who I've entrusted with the knowledge that I'm a virgin are even more perplexed.

I'm frequently told openly by my female friends that I'm a great catch, that they can't understand why I don't have a girlfriend, that if they weren't already taken they would have snatched me up. I actually think they're being honest with me, but even though they believe what they're telling me, it's just not true.

 

What I've learned is that (here comes a controversial opinion) women are just obsessed with sex, probably more so than men. Women just don't show it or even realize it.

This sounds stupid, but I believe this because the vast majority of them will only have anything to do with guys who are also obsessed with sex. They'll go out for the night preparing to make an effort to avoid the players and pick-up artists, but almost invariably end up going home with one. They'll never have any appreciation or attraction for the modest guy who respects them and wants to genuinely get to know them for who they are, while all of their positive attention goes towards the extroverted and conceited jerks who cop a feel at any given opportunity.

In the same subtle and subconscious way, women are also more shallow than men. The reason this is an uncommon impression is only because it's not based on physical aspects. It's scientific study that women will judge the appeal of a man by his money, car, height, clothes, and even by the drink he'll order at the bar. 76% of women will only date men at least five years older than them. Most women will only date men who are at least three inches taller than them. The statistic that 20% of men are dating 80% of women gives a clear insight into the kind of men that women limit themselves to.

It may seem like I'm generalizing on all this and that I'm just being shallow by founding this opinion on just one wrong type of girl, but I can honestly say I'm basing this on party girls, social butterflies, intellectuals and shy girls alike, regardless of how any of them look or where they choose to kill their time.

 

The problem is that the dating game is rigged against men. Despite all the equality breakthroughs society has achieved in the last few decades, 99.9% of women still believe we live in the 1940's and think it's the man's job to make not only the first move, but all the moves. Men are still left having to take all of the social and emotional risks, to put themselves out on a limb and to risk rejection, while women only need to make themselves look acceptable and simply be present, filtering through the men that approach them. The furthest most women will ever go is using prolonged eye contact and a smile, expecting the man to interpret this as the green light to approach her.

 

I've personally been told by a girl who rejected me (after messing me about and leading me on) that I need to 'build up my confidence'. What boggles my mind about this the most is that this literally came from the most reserved girl I have ever known, so I don't know where she got off saying this despite me being more open and taking a bigger risk than she or any other woman would ever consider. Even though I've been more forthcoming and open than any woman would ever be, it's still not as much as what's expected of me, so apparently I have 'confidence issues'. On a side note, I've learned that being open and honest with a woman is the worst thing I could have done.

 

I admit that I haven't done absolutely everything I could at all times to actively pursue a relationship, and that out of shyness or uncertainty I've sometimes hesitated, but I'm generally open to interaction and would love to know what it's like to be close to someone like-minded, but my experience has left me disillusioned with what women really want from a man.

There are women who will say that they like a 'shy guy', but if there are any women who genuinely feel this way then I would like to know which Martian rock they're all hiding under.

 

I'll also admit that I'm not a 100% devoid of superficiality, because no human being is, but looks are just not as important to me as they are for most people.

When people ask me if I prefer “blonde or brunette?”, I say that I don't care. “Short or tall?”, I don't care. “Skinny or buxom?”, I don't care. “Ethnicity?”, I don't care. “Hippie or goth?”, I don't care.

What matters to me is that we have mature things in common to talk about and that we connect. Because of this, I'm just not attractive to women.

 

I'm not like most guys who just want a hot dumb bombshell to screw. I have no interest in meaningless sex with strangers I've just met, no matter how attractive they are. All I want is something meaningful that I can share with someone who feels the same way.

The strange thing is that leaves me perfectly fitting the description of the kind of guy that women say and think they want. But the problem is that it's not what they REALLY want subconsciously.

As far as I (and my female friends) can tell, I am that contrasting and unique guy that so many women claim they want to break away from the usual guys for. Yet, here I am typing this up.

 

I've actively tried for relationships a few times. If I haven't been treated with preemptive dismissal, I've been pushed, pulled, lead on and used just for an ego boost (by more than just one type of woman).

The depressing thing is that this has left me feeling uncomfortable even referring to myself as a man, as I don't think I've even earned that description. The best I can do is say I'm a 'guy'. What's infinitely worse is that I'm the 'nice guy'.

When out and about, I occasionally find a girl looking at me, making eye contact and smiling. An interesting side note is that the number of women I catch looking and/or smiling at me in a single day while I'm wearing a suit (looking like I'm worth a bit of money) actually exceeds the number of looks and smiles I'll get in a month dressed in my usual clothes (and like I mentioned earlier, I dress relatively well anyway). But ultimately after auditioning me, they all determine that I'm a 'nice guy' and good friend material, because I don't create the emotional soap opera for them that they don't even realize they crave. Instead, I end up appealing to women similarly to a brother, a puppy or an expensive pair of shoes. I don't even get to choose which of the three I end up being.

 

The fatal problem for me is that although I'm considerate and chivalrous, I'm not an openly sexual or flirtatious guy. This is why no woman will ever feel any real attraction for me, and it's just one big vicious circle since I have no reason to feel any different about myself until they do, which they won't. Another vicious circle is that, being a virgin, no woman would ever go near me on a romantic level, and even if I never mention being a virgin to them, they seem to be able to just sniff it on me, and being a virgin is like woman repellant. The intimacy and trust issues that have built up because of this just get worse and worse, hurting my chances further. Like I said, I'm the 'nice guy', and every girl knows that nice guys don't need love. They don't need validation. They don't need someone to talk to late at night when they're wondering what the point of their existence is.

 

Of all the girls who have rejected me, I know with utmost conviction that I'm kinder, smarter, funnier, more thoughtful, deeper, original, more moralistic and generally have more to offer than the next ten guys any of them will date put together. I only wish that any of them would ever realize this.

I also know a handful of guys in similar positions to me, and I can say the same thing for most of them. They're just better men and better human beings than anybody that most women will ever consider dating, and it's bizarrely why they won't date them. The most tragic thing is that, again, it's unlikely any woman will ever realize.

 

I acknowledge that men are definitely not the only ones who get unfairly hurt in relationships, but as harsh as it sounds, it doesn't need to have as much of a long term impact on a woman. If a woman is hurt and has her confidence destroyed, all it does is slow her life down for a while. She'll still be approached and romanced by the same number of men until her confidence has been built right back up to where it was before, but it's not the same for a man. A man's confidence is expected to just self-replenish, so those of us who's confidence has been stunted by being hurt and used at an early stage before we've learned to self-replenish it in this way are left permanently and irrevocably scarred.

 

What actually disgusts me is the way women instinctively approach dating.

Men are in two main categories; Some just want meaningless sex with a hot chick, but most want a harmonious and meaningful relationship with someone they can connect to. Women say they want this, they think they want this, but it's not what keeps them happy. They want dissonance and emotional confusion.

Women treat the dating game as a competition, but not one with other women. Instead, it's a competition with the very guys they're dating. If a guy appreciates and respects her, it's embedded in her psyche to put herself above him, lowering his value in her eyes and condoning herself to treat him accordingly. On the other hand, if a guy is conceited and flippant, she will perceive him as independent and indifferent, placing him in a position of high status and desirability.

Dating and relationships are only conflicts of status and one-upmanship because that's what women make of them. Of course, all women will eagerly deny this, but actions speaks louder than words.

I can't blame women for being this way, as it's simply how they're emotionally wired and socially conditioned to hunt for the modernized and distorted idea of the alpha male.

 

At this stage I'm so broken down by my apparent lack of masculinity and humanity that whenever I catch a woman looking and smiling, the best I can do is politely smile back and continue on with my day. I just can't afford to set myself up for the inevitable pain anymore.

 

I am jaded and bitter as a result of the lack of any kind of honest or genuine romantic attention shown or reciprocated from any woman throughout my life. I don't want to be this way, but I just can't help it, as it's left me where I am in this Catch-22 situation having missed a fundamental train. No woman will ever have anything to do with me romantically now because I'm damaged goods, and with the intimacy issues I have because of it, no woman would have the patience anyway. I've had to learn that I will never be in a relationship of any kind and will be truly alone for my entire life, however long I allow it to be. I've recently suffered the biggest blow of all and have given up any hope for good to preserve what's left of my emotional stability before it's sucked out by the next girl. I'm left constantly working hard to accept within myself that I will always be alone, knowing that I can never be loved.

 

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with this, but it's just the only remaining way that I can explain the lifetime of emptiness I'm stuck with, and learning to accept my inability to be loved beats the hell out of hurting myself by trying any more.

 

Dude, you nailed it and I share 200% of your observation. Women are indeed obsessed with sex.

 

So, this asian chick whom I was working with for about 3 months gotten a bit romantically interested in me, I wasn't to that great extent. I remained a stud for quite some time and never flattered her in a subservient fashion. The day when she started opening up talking about sex, I said, "I love her, love in an admiring way" and she just ran way.

 

I guess women are afraid of loyal relationships, they want dissonance and emotional confusion. I've observed this many a time. Until about 26, I was a virgin and gotten a chance to **** a girl almost my age. We had sex for 2 days and never left the room. I should say, it was just an experience, we did share some feeling.

 

I am from India and in the US, I've noticed girls are not in the relationship mode i.e. genuinely getting to know one another, enjoy the small things in life, not just great sex.

 

It might be emotionally disturbing to not have a female companion, I will partly agree to this. This is the solution I came up with and working awesome for me.

 

Please don't worry about being alone, you'll be alone even after getting married. After coming to the US I realized how good the relationships back in India are and were. The concept of sexual gratification alone as a factor in relationship doesn't exist in India.

 

Answer these questions yourself :

(1) In what way can a girl make your life happy?

If she's not loyal to you, likes to sleep with other men after marrying you, no loyalty in communication what kind of relationship are in. Is it not a mess?

 

(2) Why are you not happy being alone?

I am a musician myself and came to terms recently on what I want out of my life. And I keep myself busy doing a ton of projects. What however pisses me off is doing things by myself. Without feedback, it's not going to get any better.

 

(3) Will sex make you happy?

I gave up my desire on meaningless sex, it might last for a few minutes. After these experiences I realized when we feel slightly horny masturbating will get our mind off from involuntarily thinking about women and sex.

 

(4) Meet people sharing similar interests. Trust me this alone will bring such good change in your life, you don't think much about women. Why should you waste your time and effort chasing women ? It is not worth the time.

 

Yearning for peace and happiness in life is more important than anything else. I am now past the 25yr mark, discovered this simple rules.

a. Women don't make your life happy/peaceful

b. Women make it more complicated, if she's disloyal

c. You are who you are, happiness and sadness is within you.

d. Stop reacting to the external stimulus, discover the peace within you.

e. Do what you enjoy doing, may be music, your profession what not.

 

(AND)

 

To get a girl, which I learnt recently is not that hard.

a. Learn to tell lies, they love lies.

 

b. Don't give a **** about who they are. Women naturally are attention whores. Don't care, talk, tantalize them and forget.

 

c. Women can't process long sentences. When you approach make it easy. Simple questions like : "Hey, is the book you are reading worth purchasing?"

 

d. No girl will outright agree to have sex, they love to play for a while, then show their slutty side. It is part of nature's design. One shouldn't ask "why?"

 

e. Never ever praise them, never. If you do, you appear like a weak person. Honestly, there's something wrong about how women sees a guy being. They like studs, trust me, doesn't matter how you look. Just groom yourself well, it doesn't matter, you just flirt and lets them go. Then confusion begins in their minds, "did he like me/not" after a while.

 

f. Getting laid, they like a nice excuse to have sex. To me after staying in the US for so many years, I learnt one message. Women love sex and not love, relationship and responsibilities. In India parents devote their lives to children, mother and father live a good life, if it's a traditional family. Not in cities of course, they are ****ed up as always.

 

g. Man yourself up, it takes may be a couple months of working your skills, meeting new women. Whenever I act like a stud, women always liked it. I used to be polite and nice, and women perceive you as a weakling. It is inherent to their nature.

 

h. Being honest and true, never liked by girls regardless of their age. I've consistently seen and shared the same opinion with guys who got plenty of sex across all cultures.

 

And somebody wrote "sex improves your confidence", it is partly true, if you never had sex, then it is sure going to hit you very, very hard. After I had my first notch, my perception of sex changed, until before that life seemed so hard.

 

These are not my views alone, I've had many friends after several years of observation, they brought up similar arguments. They did sleep with western women.

Edited October 25, 2014 by kripster

[maysj18]

Dude, you nailed it and I share 200% of your observation. Women are indeed obsessed with sex.

 

So, this asian chick whom I was working with for about 3 months gotten a bit romantically interested in me, I wasn't to that great extent. I remained a stud for quite some time and never flattered her in a subservient fashion. The day when she started opening up talking about sex, I said, "I love her, love in an admiring way" and she just ran way.

 

I guess women are afraid of loyal relationships, they want dissonance and emotional confusion. I've observed this many a time. Until about 26, I was a virgin and gotten a chance to **** a girl almost my age. We had sex for 2 days and never left the room. I should say, it was just an experience, we did share some feeling.

 

I am from India and in the US, I've noticed girls are not in the relationship mode i.e. genuinely getting to know one another, enjoy the small things in life, not just great sex.

 

It might be emotionally disturbing to not have a female companion, I will partly agree to this. This is the solution I came up with and working awesome for me.

 

Please don't worry about being alone, you'll be alone even after getting married. After coming to the US I realized how good the relationships back in India are and were. The concept of sexual gratification alone as a factor in relationship doesn't exist in India.

 

Answer these questions yourself :

(1) In what way can a girl make your life happy?

If she's not loyal to you, likes to sleep with other men after marrying you, no loyalty in communication what kind of relationship are in. Is it not a mess?

 

(2) Why are you not happy being alone?

I am a musician myself and came to terms recently on what I want out of my life. And I keep myself busy doing a ton of projects. What however pisses me off is doing things by myself. Without feedback, it's not going to get any better.

 

(3) Will sex make you happy?

I gave up my desire on meaningless sex, it might last for a few minutes. After these experiences I realized when we feel slightly horny masturbating will get our mind off from involuntarily thinking about women and sex.

 

(4) Meet people sharing similar interests. Trust me this alone will bring such good change in your life, you don't think much about women. Why should you waste your time and effort chasing women ? It is not worth the time.

 

Yearning for peace and happiness in life is more important than anything else. I am now past the 25yr mark, discovered this simple rules.

a. Women don't make your life happy/peaceful

b. Women make it more complicated, if she's disloyal

c. You are who you are, happiness and sadness is within you.

d. Stop reacting to the external stimulus, discover the peace within you.

e. Do what you enjoy doing, may be music, your profession what not.

 

(AND)

 

To get a girl, which I learnt recently is not that hard.

a. Learn to tell lies, they love lies.

 

b. Don't give a **** about who they are. Women naturally are attention whores. Don't care, talk, tantalize them and forget.

 

c. Women can't process long sentences. When you approach make it easy. Simple questions like : "Hey, is the book you are reading worth purchasing?"

 

d. No girl will outright agree to have sex, they love to play for a while, then show their slutty side. It is part of nature's design. One shouldn't ask "why?"

 

e. Never ever praise them, never. If you do, you appear like a weak person. Honestly, there's something wrong about how women sees a guy being. They like studs, trust me, doesn't matter how you look. Just groom yourself well, it doesn't matter, you just flirt and lets them go. Then confusion begins in their minds, "did he like me/not" after a while.

 

f. Getting laid, they like a nice excuse to have sex. To me after staying in the US for so many years, I learnt one message. Women love sex and not love, relationship and responsibilities. In India parents devote their lives to children, mother and father live a good life, if it's a traditional family. Not in cities of course, they are ****ed up as always.

 

g. Man yourself up, it takes may be a couple months of working your skills, meeting new women. Whenever I act like a stud, women always liked it. I used to be polite and nice, and women perceive you as a weakling. It is inherent to their nature.

 

h. Being honest and true, never liked by girls regardless of their age. I've consistently seen and shared the same opinion with guys who got plenty of sex across all cultures.

 

And somebody wrote "sex improves your confidence", it is partly true, if you never had sex, then it is sure going to hit you very, very hard. After I had my first notch, my perception of sex changed, until before that life seemed so hard.

 

These are not my views alone, I've had many friends after several years of observation, they brought up similar arguments. They did sleep with western women.

 

 

*pops popcorn and pulls up a chair*

Ohhhh, this gonna be good.

[WWDD]

I have to say before the $h1tstorm starts that i'm not sure I agree with how much further he took my comments.

 

I don't think women are consciously immoral or anything. Definitely not.

It's an innate thing from millions of years of evolution to automatically and inherently chase the alpha male, but in the modern day the closest thing that resembles this (in the wrong ways) is the typical conceited a$$80le. The guy with no humility. The guy with no modesty. The guy with no conscience. I'm not saying it's the only way to attract women, but it is one of the few.

Any woman would deny this, and they think they're being truthful, but the fact is........they..........don't.............realize.

 

Women don't usually realize that they're naturally programmed to do this, and most of those who do are unaware that they're still acting by it anyway.

It's the same with guys where they fall in love with the prettiest girl in the room, even if she's an absolute b1tch.

 

I'll repeat my little disclaimer that he took my opinions a few steps further to a point that I don't completely agree with.

All I can say is that whatever he thinks, it seems to work for him.

Edited October 25, 2014 by WWDD

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I don't think women are consciously immoral or anything. Definitely not.

 

Is this the baseline for the discussion now? That women aren't aware that they're immoral? Are you kidding me?!

 

It's an innate thing from millions of years of evolution to automatically and inherently chase the alpha male

 

Um, almost all anthropology as we know it suggests that until relatively recent history, women were pretty much at the mercy of whoever wanted their bodies. No women were in the position to "chase" anyone. They were just raped, repeatedly, and forced to bear children. Hell, there are parts of the world where that's still the case today.

 

asinine pseudo-anthropological nonsense cut for clarity - but let's highlight "Women don't usually realize that they're naturally programmed to do this"

 

This just isn't true. If we're talking about attraction at a strictly biological level, that is a vastly variable factor that depends on hormonal secretions and psychological impulses. Meanwhile, hormonal secretions today are entirely different than they were a thousand or even a hundred years ago; we consume massively estrogenic diets that our ancestors would never had had; we take psychoactive medications that completely alter our dopamine levels; even athletes get about half as much exercise as prehistoric man, which influences cortisol and testosterone levels; women have access to a variety of different hormonal birth control systems that can alter their systems in unique ways, and so on. Please stop talking about dating and its connection to prehistoric mating rituals because absolutely nothing about it is even remotely the same.

 

Yes, women are biologically different, and biology means something, but that specific chemistry has changed so much in the past hundred years alone (and not to mention the societal and cultural factors, which are as strong or even stronger influences than biology) as to make evolutionary comparisons useless.

 

Women are equal people and we are no longer in the position of having to submit ourselves to men for survival. If you want to have success with women, start thinking of them as individual people with their own thoughts and feelings rather than a monolithic mass of contradictory sex hormones that must be appeased with sex and chocolate.

[jessicachoi]

you call yourself a "nice guy" but oh ****, I would be scared of you in hundreds way possible. Your attitude, behaviour and your radical way of thinking.. not a good person. And red fllgs everywhere. Please work on yourself first and get some therapy.

[WWDD]

Is this the baseline for the discussion now? That women aren't aware that they're immoral? Are you kidding me?!

 

FFS, that's not what I meant. I was trying to defend women there. I can't say anything without getting hated on.

 

Um, almost all anthropology as we know it suggests that until relatively recent history, women were pretty much at the mercy of whoever wanted their bodies. No women were in the position to "chase" anyone. They were just raped, repeatedly, and forced to bear children. Hell, there are parts of the world where that's still the case today.

 

Unfortunately true a lot of the time, but that wasn't always the case. Regardless, it's basic scientific knowledge that women evolved to be attracted to the 'alpha male'. It's true for every single mammalian species as well as countless others, and we're no exception. You just can't argue this.

 

Like I said, men are the same in the way they're primarily programmed to mindlessly gravitate towards the most physically beautiful women in the room. Doesn't matter as much to them how intelligent or nice they are. It may not be fair, but it's equally true. I bet you won't deny this part.

 

Yes, women are biologically different, and biology means something, but that specific chemistry has changed so much in the past hundred years alone (and not to mention the societal and cultural factors, which are as strong or even stronger influences than biology) as to make evolutionary comparisons useless.

 

You can argue my points all you like, but the proof's in the pudding.

 

If you want to have success with women, start thinking of them as individual people with their own thoughts and feelings rather than a monolithic mass of contradictory sex hormones that must be appeased with sex and chocolate.

 

I don't know what you were quoting there, but if you're referring to me then it's quite blatant that you've crashed in spewing hate in my direction before you've even read a significant amount of what I've had to say.

I've found that my tendency to feel attracted to a girl for WHO she is is what ends up with me being slapped with a "nice guy" sticker right across my forehead.

 

The last girl who rejected me wasn't a supermodel or anything, she was cute, very intelligent and shared a ton of the same interests as me, and we always had a lot to talk about. What really made me fall for her was that she was so reserved and inhibited, but had a surprisingly strong character, and had always reminded me a lot of myself in that way ever since I first met her six years before, I just melted for her. But it was those very things we shared in common that she saw in me and rejected me for, which absolutely destroyed me. I was slapped with that sticker once again.....

 

Please don't make presumptions about what I think, and don't put words in my mouth by blowing my comments out of proportion.

You say women are individuals. So am I. My point was that men and women are evolutionarily programmed to be attracted to certain things. I'm just as susceptible to it as anybody else, but because of the sexually reserved person I am, I've had to look deeper and am endlessly rejected for it.

 

you call yourself a "nice guy" but oh ****, I would be scared of you in hundreds way possible. Your attitude, behaviour and your radical way of thinking.. not a good person. And red fllgs everywhere. Please work on yourself first and get some therapy.

 

Why do I have to keep repeating myself?

 

I'll say yet again that I NEVER called myself a nice guy!!! It's a label that women give me all the time, and one that you would probably give me too. I've come to hate those words! Read further up in this post about the last girl I fell for.

 

Please don't tell me you really think I say those things in person. I say it here so I can get it out of my system and continue to be the spineless "nice guy" that women see me as in real life.

 

How can you say that my opinion is so radical anyway? It's not something I hate women for, it's just something I've learned. Guys who are particularly successful with women will preach this most of all, and they must be doing something right.

 

How many of your friends have been cheated on or abused by their Prince Charming?

Do some people watching at a bar or club. Watch some daytime television. Just look around you.

Edited October 25, 2014 by WWDD

[kripster]

FFS, that's not what I meant. I was trying to defend women there. I can't say anything without getting hated on.

 

 

 

Unfortunately true a lot of the time, but that wasn't always the case. Regardless, it's basic scientific knowledge that women evolved to be attracted to the 'alpha male'. It's true for every single mammalian species as well as countless others, and we're no exception. You just can't argue this.

 

Like I said, men are the same in the way they're primarily programmed to mindlessly gravitate towards the most physically beautiful women in the room. Doesn't matter as much to them how intelligent or nice they are. It may not be fair, but it's equally true. I bet you won't deny this part.

 

You can argue my points all you like, but the proof's in the pudding.

 

I don't know what you were quoting there, but if you're referring to me then it's quite blatant that you've crashed in spewing hate in my direction before you've even read a significant amount of what I've had to say.

I've found that my tendency to feel attracted to a girl for WHO she is is what ends up with me being slapped with a "nice guy" sticker right across my forehead.

 

The last girl who rejected me wasn't a supermodel or anything, she was cute, very intelligent and shared a ton of the same interests as me, and we always had a lot to talk about. What really made me fall for her was that she was so reserved and inhibited, but had a surprisingly strong character, and had always reminded me a lot of myself in that way ever since I first met her six years before, I just melted for her. But it was those very things we shared in common that she saw in me and rejected me for, which absolutely destroyed me. I was slapped with that sticker once again.....

 

Please don't make presumptions about what I think, and don't put words in my mouth by blowing my comments out of proportion.

You say women are individuals. So am I. My point was that men and women are evolutionarily programmed to be attracted to certain things. I'm just as susceptible to it as anybody else, but because of the sexually reserved person I am, I've had to look deeper and am endlessly rejected for it.

 

 

 

Why do I have to keep repeating myself?

 

I'll say yet again that I NEVER called myself a nice guy!!! It's a label that women give me all the time, and one that you would probably give me too. I've come to hate those words! Read further up in this post about the last girl I fell for.

 

Please don't tell me you really think I say those things in person. I say it here so I can get it out of my system and continue to be the spineless "nice guy" that women see me as in real life.

 

How can you say that my opinion is so radical anyway? It's not something I hate women for, it's just something I've learned. People who are successful with women will preach this most of all, and they must be doing something right.

 

How many of your friends have been cheated on or abused by their Prince Charming?

Do some people watching at a bar or club. Watch some daytime television. Just look around you.

 

You see Mr. what works for others may not always be the solution for you.

 

Definition of being successful with women? Being able to sleep with the girl you want to. Well, kind of ok. But that wont bring happiness to you.

 

Don't give a girl the attention she deserves, never, always cut in the middle of the conversation.

 

Don't ask permission from a girl. Eg : Hey, can I sit here? Just do it, they'll say if they don't. This is a stereotypical behavior I've seen. The more you are explicit in trying to please them, the more you are a looser and considered weak.

 

Do what you want to say, don't expect

 

Be the first to breakup Don't wait for all the red flags to come up. This is the best way to destroy her ego, perhaps get some evil satisfaction.

 

Attraction is a fleeting thing until the moment you discover truth For instance, you began liking this chick and chasing her. Don't chase her, just talk to her, cut the conversation in between and just leave. Their mind stops working right then. Let me tell you, I've seen this happen in a conversation at a table with 4 chicks, 2 guys. So this guy suddenly comes in, starts proposing to play a game, the chick who is sitting beside me immediately moved to his side and began talking. He just didn't give a **** about it. Just left.

 

Go to social situations, don't be afraid to open a conversation. Let your mind not worry about getting inside her pants. I am not a super hot dude, but I've always gotten my way with talking to chicks. I learnt that you shouldn't linger too much, it makes you appear needy.

 

Oh, women love excuses, always have one ready

 

Being nice is the curse phrase. Don't act up for them, this needs a bit of working, perhaps a couple of months.

 

Never, ever emotionally connect to a women It sucks up your emotional strength like anything.

 

Be yourself, do what you love. A girl doesn't have anything special, that will make you feel special. You should learn how wonderful you are as a person enjoying what you do, being good at what you do. I tell you this attitude alone got me enough attention.

 

Why the **** do you care for what they think in their mind? Mind you, you are not responsible for their ****ed up mind.

 

You are wasting your precious time. From women, who are single, to the ones already in a relationship, dating somebody, married, even had children. All of them, just all of them look for the guy who is just giving them the attention and sleep with him, forgetting the guy with whom they are with. Such an ******* behavior, being totally disloyal. In India this happens to some extent in cities, but since society just doesn't tolerate such behavior, women are scared to loose the guy they sleep with regularly, so they tend to stick with them i.e. the husband. In traditional families, thats not the idea women have in their minds. They enjoy their time with family. The concept of getting attracted to have sex is almost absent.

 

But here, whoa I was shocked, what kind of relationships are these?, built completely on sex.

 

I agree to your statement, women are not like immoral or something, perhaps the social conditioning or something natural to them that they choose the ass holes to sleep with (regardless of all cultures.)

 

 

The more you are learning to be happy with yourself, the more they start liking you. I've seen this happen consistently. The moment I am aggressive, the don't care ******* attitude, they just loved me like anything.

 

And my suggestion, if you crave so much for such a loving and caring partner and if you don't mind marrying an Indian girl born and brought up in India, go for them. There are some websites like shaadi.com, indianmatrimony.com or things like. They don't give a **** to foreigners, because parents are directly involved in choosing the guy. Parents look for the nice guy, not girls. Girls just get to see the pictures.

 

Whom not to choose?

1. Don't hook up with American born Indian, they have all the qualities you described in the first post, may be more.

 

2. Don't get with Indians who came here to study or have some kind of experience abroad, they inherit all the qualities, like sleeping and forgetting. They are not in the relationship mode, they are lonely and want sex. Oh yeah, you can sleep with them of course, but they won't marry you. They like marrying the nice guy their parents set.

 

Whom do I choose and how do I approach?

First off, meet an Indian girl or a guy and talk about your interests and give a flavor for what kind of guy you are they. The likelihood that they introduce you to their family is less. You have to be the nice guy you always wanted to be, definitely scores points in showing a genuine interest. Because America is known not to care for sexual inhibitions, Indian girls/guys just don't marry them, very very few actually do and are in stable relationships.

 

And I tell you, I really admire the relationships that I see back in India, zero conflict, the nice guy and the sweet girl. Sex is not the only thing, love, care, responsibility and peace they all coexist in the same home. Marry a girl born and brought up traditionally (not necessarily from rural areas, those who are from big families, well established families) in India, she's like a piece of gold, loves you and dedicates her life to you. I am from those families that have zero divorce even at my generation, no breakups, no separation.

 

None of my statements generalize and are applicable to all women/men, they are my observation and my experiences. There is good and bad everywhere, its up to you, what you want in your life.

Edited October 25, 2014 by kripster

[OwMyEyeball]

OK

 

You've gotten it all of your chest.

 

Now what are you going to do about it?

[normal person]

The problem is that the dating game is rigged against men. Despite all the equality breakthroughs society has achieved in the last few decades, 99.9% of women still believe we live in the 1940's and think it's the man's job to make not only the first move, but all the moves. Men are still left having to take all of the social and emotional risks, to put themselves out on a limb and to risk rejection, while women only need to make themselves look acceptable and simply be present, filtering through the men that approach them. The furthest most women will ever go is using prolonged eye contact and a smile, expecting the man to interpret this as the green light to approach her.

 

OP, all that doesn't mean the game is rigged, quite the opposite. Those are the instructions on how to win the game. Why waste your time complaining about it? You'd get what you want if you just follow those guidelines. You know how to play! What's keeping you from doing it?

 

Men have to take social and emotional risks to get girls? Then take emotional and social risks if you want girls. If you don't, then you won't.

 

Women only have to indicate interest through prolonged smiles (not true, by the way)? Then act on a women's prolonged smile and go talk to her. She's giving you a free invitation or a gift and you're complaining that you have to give bigger ones sometimes.

 

Your reluctance and/or bitterness about this makes you sound weak. Just man up and accept the challenge and the rules of the game, dude. The world isn't going adapt to your complaints.

[sid3]

Is this the baseline for the discussion now? That women aren't aware that they're immoral? Are you kidding me?!

 

 

 

Um, almost all anthropology as we know it suggests that until relatively recent history, women were pretty much at the mercy of whoever wanted their bodies. No women were in the position to "chase" anyone. They were just raped, repeatedly, and forced to bear children. Hell, there are parts of the world where that's still the case today.

 

 

 

This just isn't true. If we're talking about attraction at a strictly biological level, that is a vastly variable factor that depends on hormonal secretions and psychological impulses. Meanwhile, hormonal secretions today are entirely different than they were a thousand or even a hundred years ago; we consume massively estrogenic diets that our ancestors would never had had; we take psychoactive medications that completely alter our dopamine levels; even athletes get about half as much exercise as prehistoric man, which influences cortisol and testosterone levels; women have access to a variety of different hormonal birth control systems that can alter their systems in unique ways, and so on. Please stop talking about dating and its connection to prehistoric mating rituals because absolutely nothing about it is even remotely the same.

 

Yes, women are biologically different, and biology means something, but that specific chemistry has changed so much in the past hundred years alone (and not to mention the societal and cultural factors, which are as strong or even stronger influences than biology) as to make evolutionary comparisons useless.

 

Women are equal people and we are no longer in the position of having to submit ourselves to men for survival. If you want to have success with women, start thinking of them as individual people with their own thoughts and feelings rather than a monolithic mass of contradictory sex hormones that must be appeased with sex and chocolate.

 

Some excellent points, and well articulated. But do you really have substantial proof on what was occurring say 5-10,000 years ago. I'd like to see it.

[OwMyEyeball]

Some excellent points, and well articulated. But do you really have substantial proof on what was occurring say 5-10,000 years ago. I'd like to see it.

Whether or not she can doesn't affect the conclusion:

 

Women are equal people and we are no longer in the position of having to submit ourselves to men for survival. If you want to have success with women, start thinking of them as individual people with their own thoughts and feelings rather than a monolithic mass of contradictory sex hormones that must be appeased with sex and chocolate.

[sid3]

Whether or not she can doesn't affect the conclusion:

 

Women are equal people and we are no longer in the position of having to submit ourselves to men for survival. If you want to have success with women, start thinking of them as individual people with their own thoughts and feelings rather than a monolithic mass of contradictory sex hormones that must be appeased with sex and chocolate.

 

Yeah, that's all well and good advice for someone that may not have success with women. I fortunately do. So rather than regurgitate something you just read, let the person I quoted reply. I'd love to see the proof backing up their claim.

[OwMyEyeball]

Yeah, that's all well and good advice for someone that may not have success with women. I fortunately do. So rather than regurgitate something you just read, let the person I quoted reply. I'd love to see the proof backing up their claim.

Ooooh, you've had success with women!?!

 

That personal experience sure will float nicely when the debate in a public forum veers towards paleo-anthropology.

 

Sorry to say I'm not sorry for stating a remark to a public post in a public forum.

 

Actually, I'm not sorry for that either

[WWDD]

Women are equal people and we are no longer in the position of having to submit ourselves to men for survival. If you want to have success with women, start thinking of them as individual people with their own thoughts and feelings rather than a monolithic mass of contradictory sex hormones that must be appeased with sex and chocolate.

 

This is a very good point that you've quoted. Women are not a monolithic mass of sex hormones and are individual people. But so are men, and no one will contradict that we're primarily programmed to chase the most physically beautiful woman we can find. It works both ways.

If people want to argue that what a woman finds attractive is not evolutionary and is instead societal then it makes no difference to me. They still fall in love with jerks.

 

I'm not trying to make women seem unequal. Men and women are equal in importance and value, but not in behavior or reasoning. It's a simple fact, and it's a good thing. 7 billion people who think like men? No thanks.

 

My problem is that I'm too prone to connect to women as individuals, and I end up with oneitis and can't let go.

 

Contest it all you like, but the guys who have extra success with women, the guys who are juggling three at a time with ten more chasing his tail, are the guys who actually treat women as a "monolithic mass of contradictory sex hormones that must be appeased with sex and chocolate".

 

OP, all that doesn't mean the game is rigged, quite the opposite. Those are the instructions on how to win the game. Why waste your time complaining about it? You'd get what you want if you just follow those guidelines. You know how to play! What's keeping you from doing it?

 

Men have to take social and emotional risks to get girls? Then take emotional and social risks if you want girls. If you don't, then you won't.

 

Women only have to indicate interest through prolonged smiles (not true, by the way)? Then act on a women's prolonged smile and go talk to her. She's giving you a free invitation or a gift and you're complaining that you have to give bigger ones sometimes.

 

Your reluctance and/or bitterness about this makes you sound weak. Just man up and accept the challenge and the rules of the game, dude. The world isn't going adapt to your complaints.

 

All very good points. I guess I'm just frustrated with failing with women for wanting to get to know them for who they are, and the idea of "mind-hacking" them doesn't appeal to me. I wouldn't be any good at that anyway, you need to be able to flirt.

 

Not all guys are Joey Tribbiani's. Not all of us wear our hearts on our sleeves and feel naturally charming when it comes to romance.

 

Personally, a big problem of mine is that although I have virtually no fear of approaching a girl, it hardly ever feels appropriate to me to do it. For instance the other week I was on a bus and at one stop a girl got on and made strong eye contact with me before sitting right across from me. I was reading, but I could tell in my periphery that she kept looking over at me. I took this as a sign she wanted to be approached, but I wasn't going to go across to her with "So, you're on a bus? Such a coincidence, so am I!". I always feel like I need a good reason to start conversations with strangers.

Edited October 26, 2014 by WWDD

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Some excellent points, and well articulated. But do you really have substantial proof on what was occurring say 5-10,000 years ago. I'd like to see it.

 

Sure, here are some good starting points:

 

Encyclopedia of Human Evolution and Prehistory

A Companion to Gender Prehistory

Daughters of Slaves

 

It's almost like anthropology is an actual field with hundreds of thousands of specialists who have put together a reasonably accurate picture of human life before the written word! I don't blame you for not believing me; after all, I am a woman and cannot be relied upon to know things.

Edited October 26, 2014 by chimpanA-2-chimpanZ

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

Of all the girls who have rejected me, I know with utmost conviction that I'm kinder, smarter, funnier, more thoughtful, deeper, original, more moralistic and generally have more to offer than the next ten guys any of them will date put together. I only wish that any of them would ever realize this.

I also know a handful of guys in similar positions to me, and I can say the same thing for most of them. They're just better men and better human beings than anybody that most women will ever consider dating, and it's bizarrely why they won't date them. The most tragic thing is that, again, it's unlikely any woman will ever realize.

 

A man in your position must accept the fact that it is a numbers game. You have to accept the fact that women you think are on par with you or quite compatible have no interest in you.

 

Kind of like looking for jobs. You may be qualified for a lot of jobs, but they have other candidates or they want a better fit.

 

Don't worry about improving yourself. I think you got that part decent. Just play the numbers and jump on women who give you a chance.

 

You could be a fit, fun loving attorney who rescues puppies in his free time who still gets rejected by a cockeyed overweight single mother on welfare. It's an exaggeration, but it's true. Once you process why that is, then you can get on with doing what you need to do.

[soho]

Me and several of my friends are in the same boat as you. Life was never meant to be fair. You have to accept the brute reality. Being a bit reserved and having high moral standards is not helping you. If possible, try to be more relaxed and playful with the ladies.

 

As others have already told you, you have to play the numbers game. If a girl reject you go on to the next one, do not think to much about it. You will learn a lot by trial and error.

[smackie9]

"So you're on a bus, so am I"? that's the worse opener.

 

Confident guys say " Hi....... so what's your name? I'm ________."

[WWDD]

"So you're on a bus, so am I"? that's the worse opener.

 

Confident guys say " Hi....... so what's your name? I'm ________."

 

Lol, I was being sarcastic. It's finding topical things to initiate a conversation with a complete stranger that I struggle with.

[irc333]

Thanks. I don't know what it was in my last post that gave you this impression, it was quite objective. Anybody who knows me in person would say my problem is too far the opposite, but thanks for putting my life into perspective

 

Unfortunately, with the forums, there's a bias of the advice given of them using your own posts as being representative of the person you are in real life. It simply is not representative.