The Off Feeling..

[TrustedthenBusted]

You will never get the entire truth. At least not in every minuscule detail that you probably want. ( or think you want. )

 

I asked questions for years. And I'd always follow up with " Is there anything else you can think of that I would probably want to know?" The answer was of course always no.

 

Then some time would pass and I'd think of a new question that hadn't occured to me before. " Oh... did you ever spend the night? " " yah..once" Ok BAM... there is something you could have offered up, but didn't. " sorry, that never occured to me" And so on..

 

 

Blah blah blah... You could go on and on doing this to yourself, but I stopped.

 

I realized one day that no matter what I know, or don't know, or believe, or don't believe...what happened happened, and nothing will change it.

 

Did she treat him like a boy friend? Of course she did. DId she do all the stuff with him she does with you? Of course she did. Are most of your worst fears true? Of course they are. And it would be the same way if you were the one who stepped out. that's just how it is.

 

My wife has several boyfriends BEFORE I met her, and I had several girlfriends. It's funny how none of THOSE people live in our mind's rent free like their affair partners do.

 

We started making progress once I stopped asking questions. If she's still hiding any details or lies... I'll let them rot in her mind, not mine. Good luck.

[Btrade]

Warning this is a rough read. Been on other forums two years and thru probably a thouand threads. The odds of a 1.5 year affair being 5 hookups is roughly 1%. Figure 3 hookups a month... Ie they skipped period week.

 

He probably has pictures. She probably let him try everything including anal. She trashed you to him.

 

 

If you are Caucasian and bigger than 5.75 inches you probably are bigger. If you care about those odds, there are percentiles out on the internet. Cheating wives minimize not realizing many men of those who are capable of getting past it and some men are not capable... Will process the truth and deal with it. When they find a lie, the processing they did goes away because it is based on a lie. I've seen bdsm affairs with all sorts of freaky recover because the wife confessed fully. Those husband's goal line never moved. They processed the truth once and got past it.

[2sunny]

I have phone records from 2012-2013. And yes, she gives full access to all of her stuff now. Everything since then has been deleted though. Any online stuff, phone texts etc. I have not installed any VAR or tracker in her car. Unless she's meeting up at lunch time she literally has absolutely no time. She doesn't go out anymore.

 

She could be using a burner (throw away) phone and a new email address.

 

I wouldn't be able to trust given her lack of information she's provided - I'd be inclined to schedule a polygraph for her.

 

She's proven she's not offering info. It's up to you to pay for your peace of mind.

 

If she won't go then you know she's been lying.

 

I think she's minimized at best.

[jaceysmiley]

Hi friend, I'm sorry you've been facing challenges in your marriage and that you've had such a rough week. It's pretty obvious from what you shared that you are wanting to reconcile with your wife, and that's commendable. Have you considered counseling? I'll be praying for you and your wife:)

 

jaceysmiley

[2sunny]

As long as she knows your not divorcing her - she isn't going to tell.

 

She seems like she hasn't had many consequences and hasn't made the effort to restore your trust and repair that damage she caused.

 

You forgave too easily with little consequences to her.

 

And that counselor is a jerk for saying that!

[Mr. Lucky]

I have no clue and I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm not even sure why I even wanted to know that. I guess it was more of wonder of why she kept going back. That I'll never know.

That it's difficult for you to process and understand doesn't relieve her of the responsibility to try and explain it to you. Recovery in these situations isn't about what she's willing to offer, has to be based on what you need. You may find out the hard way how important this is...

 

Mr. lucky

[drifter777]

Every single BH story I've read gets to the place you are at now within the first year or so. There are some things that you should try to understand about what's happening right now. Your anger, pain, and humiliation are looking for a new place to hide. You stuffed all of those emotions away in hopes that time would heal your wounds and life would get back to normal. You still are having trouble facing the truth about just how much her affair damaged you and your marriage. You are afraid that if your truly begin to feel those strong emotions that it will lead to divorce. And you are probably afraid of being alone or afraid to start over. You tell yourself that if she would just be honest about everything that you would finally begin to heal. But no matter how much she tells you and how truthful it is you are not going to get it all and you are not going to believe her anyway. The reason has nothing to do with you needing the truth to heal, it is all about the anger you harbor toward her and the shame you feel for staying with a cheating wife. All this "need the truth" crap is just a symptom of the problem.

 

Based on everything you've posted I believe you need to finally start working on your own personal recovery. You will suffer and drive yourself crazy if you continue on the path you are on now. The first thing you should do is find a place to live and move out. Learn how to live with yourself, by yourself. See a counselor and start facing the truth about how you feel about your wife. If you do these two things I guarantee that you will begin to feel better. Once you begin to take care of yourself instead of protecting the marriage that exists only in your mind, your emotional balance will begin to return. Your self-esteem will start to heal.

 

You've been through enough of this false forgiveness, fake reconciliation crap. You are never going to accept what she has done and you will never forgive her. Do the right thing for yourself now instead of continuing to suffer and blame yourself for not being able to just "get over it". Men who believe sexual fidelity is vital to their relationship should not try to change their beliefs when their wife cheats on them. Be true to yourself and do what you know in your heart is the right thing.

[drifter777]

We started making progress once I stopped asking questions. If she's still hiding any details or lies... I'll let them rot in her mind, not mine. Good luck.

If this wasn't so damn sad it would be hilarious. Trusted, all you did was sink further into denial.

[jm2013]

We went to our MC last night. It's faith based so it's a little different than what path your typical counselor would outline. He pretty much just kept saying you can't keep looking at the past if we're going to move on to a future, new marriage. And to basically leave it all at God's doorstep and move forward. But he did ask her if there was anything else which she still said no. I'm not going to leave my house again. Most days I am happy. I had a bad week. WE do not argue and we do a lot more family stuff we haven't done in a long time or ever done.

 

I'm not going to walk away from it. Yes, it has been a year that had many ups and downs but I'm still at a point of trying to get through this and make it work. My wife an I have both put forth a lot of effort here. While I do have that feeling there was something more I could be wrong. Last week I think it was the way I asked a question a little different. Instead of just sex she admitted to giving him a tug and him "trying" to go down on her. But shedding new light opens up new questions. Perhaps this will get easier for me. Last night my wife said she was extremely grateful each day I'm around. She was crying here and there during last night's session.

 

I finally bought a couple books on infidelity. I've seen them floating around on this forum but never read anything. I'm going to start reading and see if those books can help the emotional part of healing. If I looked at my wife who she is now, she's a completely different person than she was. She trying really hard. It's more of me dealing with what has happened yesterday than what is happening today. And for the most part, we are really happy. It's just me thinking and cycling it all and questioning. Whether we work and have a flourishing marriage or it ends at least I can say I tried. I owe it to my daughter to try and make our marriage work. My wife and I do not hate each other. I do still love her and she loves me. There's no way a person can do what she's currently without love. Have a good weekend all.

Edited September 26, 2014 by jm2013

[DKT3]

We went to our MC last night. It's faith based so it's a little different than what path your typical counselor would outline. He pretty much just kept saying you can't keep looking at the past if we're going to move on to a future, new marriage. And to basically leave it all at God's doorstep and move forward. But he did ask her if there was anything else which she still said no. I'm not going to leave my house again. Most days I am happy. I had a bad week. WE do not argue and we do a lot more family stuff we haven't done in a long time or ever done.

 

I'm not going to walk away from it. Yes, it has been a year that had many ups and downs but I'm still at a point of trying to get through this and make it work. My wife an I have both put forth a lot of effort here. While I do have that feeling there was something more I could be wrong. I could also be wrong. Last week I think it was the way I asked a question a little different. Instead of just sex she admitted to giving him a tug and him "trying" to go down on her. But shedding new light opens up new questions. Perhaps this will get easier for me. Last night my wife said she was extremely grateful each day I'm around. She was crying here and there during last night's session.

 

I finally bought a couple books on infidelity. I've seen them floating around on this forum but never read anything. I'm going to start reading and see if those books can help the emotional part of healing. If I looked at my wife who she is now, she's a completely different person than she was. She trying really hard. It's more of me dealing with what has happened yesterday than what is happening today. And for the most part, we are really happy. It's just me thinking and cycling it all and questioning. Whether we work and have a flourishing marriage or it ends at least I can say I tried. I owe it to my daughter to try and make our marriage work. My wife and I do not hate each other. I do still love her and she loves me. There's no way a person can do what she's currently without love. Have a good weekend all.

 

Yes, once you've committed to moving forward you have to start letting go of the affair. It will still be on you mind a lot, you will still wonder why and no answer is good enough, no amount of details are detailed enough. You have to face that you will never know all nor understand why. It does make it easier once you get there.

[happyman64]

JM

 

You have gotten some great advice.

 

ANd I think the way you are feeling and still questioning her is normal.

 

But to ever succeed in being happy comes from within. You do need to focus on yourself.

 

The time to take her for a lie detector test was a year ago.

 

ANd if you ever go that route please do not tell her. SUrprise her.

 

But for now focus on you. Get happy again. ANd feel good that you are both still around for each other....

 

HM

[Friskyone4u]

You are not going to get the truth without a polygraph. There is obviously more that you do not know and most importantly is it still going on. DO NOT think it cannot still be just because she is overcompensating to try to have you forget.

She has confessed to nothing that you have not discovered.

A couple of other questions

(1) do you have total transparency to her electronic devices. If not, why not?? That is key to rebuilding trust. She should want you to have this .

(2) are you sure there is not back channel communication .

(3) if he is married does his wife know? If not, why not??

(4) this " friend" who helped her cheat is no friend of your marriage. Does she still go out with this person. This friend should be cut out of her life voluntarily, especially if she was an enabler or cheerleader.

(5) what excuses did she give you on where she was when she met OM?? Girls Night Out??? Shopping?? These activities need to cease

You will never R until you feel safe and if you don't have all the answers that ain't going to happen. She will cheat again and be more careful because she never had to really be accountable for everything she did.

I would put anVAR in her car. She lost her right to privacy and secrets when she screwed another man.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

We went to our MC last night. It's faith based so it's a little different than what path your typical counselor would outline. He pretty much just kept saying you can't keep looking at the past if we're going to move on to a future, new marriage. And to basically leave it all at God's doorstep and move forward. But he did ask her if there was anything else which she still said no. I'm not going to leave my house again. Most days I am happy. I had a bad week. WE do not argue and we do a lot more family stuff we haven't done in a long time or ever done.

 

I'm not going to walk away from it. Yes, it has been a year that had many ups and downs but I'm still at a point of trying to get through this and make it work. My wife an I have both put forth a lot of effort here. While I do have that feeling there was something more I could be wrong. Last week I think it was the way I asked a question a little different. Instead of just sex she admitted to giving him a tug and him "trying" to go down on her. But shedding new light opens up new questions. Perhaps this will get easier for me. Last night my wife said she was extremely grateful each day I'm around. She was crying here and there during last night's session.

 

I finally bought a couple books on infidelity. I've seen them floating around on this forum but never read anything. I'm going to start reading and see if those books can help the emotional part of healing. If I looked at my wife who she is now, she's a completely different person than she was. She trying really hard. It's more of me dealing with what has happened yesterday than what is happening today. And for the most part, we are really happy. It's just me thinking and cycling it all and questioning. Whether we work and have a flourishing marriage or it ends at least I can say I tried. I owe it to my daughter to try and make our marriage work. My wife and I do not hate each other. I do still love her and she loves me. There's no way a person can do what she's currently without love. Have a good weekend all.

 

Most BHs that have attempted reconciliation gets to the same point you are at now. You frequently second-guess your wife's version of the affair; her motives; her transparency. You also second-guess yourself: is she lying, am I being played again, is reconciliation the right decision, etc. It's natural because of the betrayal.

 

Does it really matter what they did, how many times they did it, if it was mind-blowing? Here is my thought on this:

 

You decided to work on your marriage. You are at the point of Acceptance, and it is hard. You have to Accept what your wife did and move forward. Yes she screwed another guy... maybe 100 times. She most likely really enjoyed it. You have to Accept that, too!

 

You also have to Accept that you will not get every detail. Outside of a polygraph, you'll never know what she says is 100% true. But like I said, it really doesn't matter in the big picture. If it does matter, then your best option is divorce. Otherwise you'll stay stuck.

 

Am I reading correctly that you had an affair (ONS?) shortly after D-day?

[TrustedthenBusted]

If this wasn't so damn sad it would be hilarious. Trusted, all you did was sink further into denial.

 

Au contrare mon frere. You misread me. I reached the opposite of denial. I fully expect ( and accept) that her affair involved everything that affairs typically involve. I just reached a point where I didn't feel I was benefitting from digging up any more details. What else do I really need to know?

 

The point I was making is that you can go mental questioning yourself about every little detail. But honestly... what do you get in exchange for that? Nightmares?

 

They had sex. And they had sex the way literally billions of people have sex everyday. The way I had it with lots women when I was dating, and lots of men when she was dating. Everyone is a little bit different...but really...not THAT different, right?

 

Most of us have more than one notch on our bedposts already, so in the end....it's another notch. Is it really more than that? Or do we BS's just convince ourselves that it is?

 

I didn't stop asking questions because I couldn't handle the answers. I stopped because I had asked the important ones already, and just decided that the itty bitty details didn't matter.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think you'll find that this advice:

 

And to basically leave it all at God's doorstep and move forward.

 

And the advice you get here:

 

I finally bought a couple books on infidelity. I've seen them floating around on this forum but never read anything. I'm going to start reading and see if those books can help the emotional part of healing.

 

...will be at odds with each other.

 

And I'd have trouble with the first one. At least in my town, lots of doorsteps...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Crazy_Love]

So I haven't read all of the replies but I thought I'd offer a different perspective. I'm the one who did the cheating and was discovered. The whys aren't too important but in a nutshell my hub had not touched me or been affectionate in 13 years, I've kids so didn't want to leave, tried counseling, he never cared to since the problem and etc. The whole thing happened three years ago.

 

I didn't tell him everything. Why? Because it would have hurt him even more than it did and despite my anger towards him, it was still difficult to see him in pain. And it would have made any chance at reconciliation go from difficult to impossible. I had to keep the family together for the kids sake and I doubted his ability to forgive me that much because I know what he's like.

 

There are many reasons why your wife may not be telling you everything. Maybe she doesn't want to cause you more pain. Maybe she's afraid that you won't be able to handle it. It's clear that you can't force her to, so you need to decide whether you can live not knowing certain things and accept that, or move on.

[thummper]

Perhaps you'd better make it crystal clear that if he tries to contact her, if he calls, e-mails, texts, stops by her work and she neglects to tell you, that your marriage may be finished. She MUST understand this!

[Mr. Lucky]

I didn't tell him everything. Why? Because it would have hurt him even more than it did and despite my anger towards him, it was still difficult to see him in pain. And it would have made any chance at reconciliation go from difficult to impossible. I had to keep the family together for the kids sake and I doubted his ability to forgive me that much because I know what he's like.

An awful lot of self-serving rationalization in your post, both in service of your infidelity and in justifying keeping your BS in the dark.

 

You cheated for your own reasons, based on your own choices. And you're not acting out of consideration for him or your marriage, you're protecting yourself. This isn't about his "ability to forgive"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[bubbaganoosh]

This is a good example why (and I know to some will seem hard hearted) that cheating is a deal breaker and it's a one and done issue with me.

 

I refuse to live a life with doubt about the person who you devoted your life to and was supposed to be the one person you can count on. The trust will never be fully regained and if you reconcile, I have no doubt that thirty years later you'll trigger and all that crap from the past rears it's ugly head and your reliving the most painful part of your life all over again.

 

Look friend, if she isn't being honest with you then how do you expect to keep your marriage going. Answer. You wont.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I think once we get cheated on, the hurt makes us all a bit self-righteous. WE lose sight of the reality that in most cases, we've lied to people ( even through omission ) to one extent or another to people who are important to us, for ALL of the same reasons our cheating spouses lied ( or lie ) to us.

 

I'm not saying we should sit back and accept lies. I'm just saying we need to be realistic about our expectations.

 

I sat down one day and really truly reversed the situation in my head. And I tried to picture myself answering questions about my past. I gotta say... I'm not sure how much detail I'd really want to provide either. I totally understand not wanting to make a bad situation worse, or believing that the truth will set you free. lol.

 

That said, if your BS asks you something, and you think he's not going to like the answer, better to tell him he's not going to like the answer, than to lie.

[nightmare01]

I think once we get cheated on, the hurt makes us all a bit self-righteous. WE lose sight of the reality that in most cases, we've lied to people ( even through omission ) to one extent or another to people who are important to us, for ALL of the same reasons our cheating spouses lied ( or lie ) to us.

 

I'm not saying we should sit back and accept lies. I'm just saying we need to be realistic about our expectations.

 

I sat down one day and really truly reversed the situation in my head. And I tried to picture myself answering questions about my past. I gotta say... I'm not sure how much detail I'd really want to provide either. I totally understand not wanting to make a bad situation worse, or believing that the truth will set you free. lol.

 

That said, if your BS asks you something, and you think he's not going to like the answer, better to tell him he's not going to like the answer, than to lie.

 

True enough - and I agree that if a WS is asked a question and they know the truth will hurt their BS, they should tell them the answer will hurt and then answer the question with the truth.

 

If a WS is caught lying again, the damage to their credibility will likely be set back to what it was right after Dday. And no excuse will be good enough for the lie.

[nightmare01]

This is a good example why (and I know to some will seem hard hearted) that cheating is a deal breaker and it's a one and done issue with me.

 

I refuse to live a life with doubt about the person who you devoted your life to and was supposed to be the one person you can count on. The trust will never be fully regained and if you reconcile, I have no doubt that thirty years later you'll trigger and all that crap from the past rears it's ugly head and your reliving the most painful part of your life all over again.

 

Look friend, if she isn't being honest with you then how do you expect to keep your marriage going. Answer. You wont.

 

In truth I think this will happen to a BS regardless of whether or not the D their WS and move on to someone else.

 

The amount of trust we invested in our WS was far more than we should have with anyone. We were stupid to trust that much. So if we stay with our WS or go and find someone new, I doubt I could ever invest so unwisely again.

[TrustedthenBusted]

The amount of trust we invested in our WS was far more than we should have with anyone. We were stupid to trust that much. So if we stay with our WS or go and find someone new, I doubt I could ever invest so unwisely again.

 

 

We weren't stupid to trust that much. THEY were stupid to ruin such a gift.

 

For a long time I thought I'd never trust anyone again, and I was in big time "look out for numero uno" mode.

 

But I think if I ended up single again, I could trust someone else the way I trusted my wife. Although that person would have to be a former BS. I think this experience is SUCH an eye opener, that before anyone would pass muster with me, they'd have had to walk that mile first.

[Man Mountain Makino]

This is a good example why (and I know to some will seem hard hearted) that cheating is a deal breaker and it's a one and done issue with me.

I tend to agree, and am against reconciliation as the process is long and difficult. I honestly don't think it is worth going through the process. Best to end things and start a new relationship with a new person. At least that post adultery baggage won't be there, and I think when you're in a whole new relationship, the person from the old relationship ends up taking less space in your mind, much more so than they deserve.

[No Limit]

I think this experience is SUCH an eye opener, that before anyone would pass muster with me, they'd have had to walk that mile first.

 

Sadly, no. Plenty of people fall out of control after that experience and don't care about others at all anymore. Then there's the sort that falls in love only 1 time, they're good for nothing.