Sexless Marriage - how / when to leave

[Imezru2]

Thanks for all the responses. I'll think about all and give my thoughts in the morning. Good to see your input Michelle ma Belle. Glad you haven't forgotten about me.

[JamesM]

You say you don't fight, and that you have this family-roomate type of situation.

 

The parents who ought better to divorce are the ones who insist on high tension homes with a lot of fighting and/or abuse. For ones like yours, I understand it is better to stay together for the children.

 

Kids do not need to see you having some passionate relationship with your spouse. They just need to feel loved themselves, and have stability.

 

The idea that marriages need to be romantic, passionate, full of sex...all of these ideals...is not what marriage has to mean. There's no universal definition of marriage that even requires that the couple love each other. When people have kids in a marriage, it needs to become more about creating stability and raising the kids. When parents separate, it's standard for one or both to then start bringing romantic partners into their lives, and kids often do not fare well with this.

 

Agree.

 

And one of my kids has said a couple of times..."Don't fight. I hate to see you two fighting."

 

I have never heard from any of them: "Please start kissing more." No, they want to see us get along and love them. Selfish on their part? Perhaps. But as parents, our job is to provide them a stable and loving home.

 

Once you have children, the marriage is not about your happiness. In fact, your happiness should come second to your children's. When they leave, then you may make a choice, but even then, you are a role model to them.

 

You made a commitment for better or for worse. You did not make a commitment "...until I am no longer happy." Your children are relying on you to hold to your promise.

 

I would also like to point out that you have no definite responses from your wife saying that this is over from what I read. All we are reading is that you like having affairs (kindly said) because you are not getting enough sex (in your opinion).

 

Obvious question which you may have answered but I missed....have you examined every possible reason why she no longer enjoys sex? (I will go back to read again.)

[Got it]

I think this idea that a parent's happiness doesn't matter needs to be looked at carefully. I do not think martyring one's self to keep an intact marriage is a healthy one depend on the degree of issues. I also do not think that giving the children a false illusion of marital bliss is a good example either.

 

My parents went that road, neither happy but putting their wants and needs second. I think for awhile it may have been okay without too tremondous of an impact but it is hard to sustain that. Some can, absolutely, but for others it comes up in other outlets (anger issues, poor coping mechanisms, depression, etc).

 

I think what it takes is BOTH parents committing to trying to improve the marriage. It takes one person being the impetus of this, seemingly the OP, who throw down the gauntlet and puts out expectations of marriage counseling, movement towards improving things, etc. I do not agree that one partner can hold any aspect hostage, be it sex, money, children, etc. and there has to be some level of compromise.

 

OP, I would say, if you are not 100% decided on divorce, stop the affairs, go into IC on your own and with your IC work on expectations to give to your wife to see the needle move on your marital happiness. You can't force someone to do something but you lay out your requirements and inform them of the actions you will take if things do not improve. Maybe this is where an open marriage discussion comes into play, separation, divorce, etc. I would speak to a lawyer, financial planner, whomever you need to so you understand what each pathway looks like.

[Turtles]

You say you don't fight, and that you have this family-roomate type of situation.

 

The parents who ought better to divorce are the ones who insist on high tension homes with a lot of fighting and/or abuse. For ones like yours, I understand it is better to stay together for the children.

 

Kids do not need to see you having some passionate relationship with your spouse. They just need to feel loved themselves, and have stability.

 

The idea that marriages need to be romantic, passionate, full of sex...all of these ideals...is not what marriage has to mean. There's no universal definition of marriage that even requires that the couple love each other. When people have kids in a marriage, it needs to become more about creating stability and raising the kids. When parents separate, it's standard for one or both to then start bringing romantic partners into their lives, and kids often do not fare well with this.

 

To a point, yes, but that sounds like the kind of story that ends in a murder-suicide.

[pteromom]

Kids do not need to see you having some passionate relationship with your spouse. They just need to feel loved themselves, and have stability.

 

The idea that marriages need to be romantic, passionate, full of sex...all of these ideals...is not what marriage has to mean. There's no universal definition of marriage that even requires that the couple love each other. When people have kids in a marriage, it needs to become more about creating stability and raising the kids. .

 

I agree with this, but I am also not on board with this concept that you have to just be unhappy for the sake of your kids. Sure, you can plaster on a smile and decide to live an unhappy existence for your kids, but that's sad.

 

That said, there are other options outside of divorce. Here's what I would do:

 

Step 1: Go to a counselor alone. Go not with the goal of figuring out what you want to do, but go specifically to learn how to be a good husband. I know you said you gave backrubs and was very loving to your wife, but maybe those weren't the things she valued. Maybe there is some kind of resentment or anger that has built up inside her that killed her libido. Maybe she feels as lonely as you do. Maybe there is something YOU can do to reset your marriage and change the patterns and cycles. Read books... The Five Love Languages, and any other relationship book you can get your hands on. Do it with the goal of learning to be more loving and meeting your wife's needs. This may be an exercise in futility. She may not respond and may be perfectly happy with the way things are.

 

Step 2: Joint counseling. It's worth a shot. If you don't see her responding to your changes, then get her in there to work on it together. The good news is it sounds like she REALLY doesn't want to get divorced, so it should be easy to get her in. At this point, you should also disclose your affairs. Rip it open and see if that helps your marriage heal or not.

 

Step 3: She stayed after learning of your affairs, you've done all the work, and everything still sucks. Now what? Propose an open marriage. Tell her that you are fine being her roommate and friend, but you have sexual needs and you want to get them met. Work with her to come up with guidelines for this, and never never associate with any of the other women in front of your kids.

 

Step 4: She refuses the open marriage, still won't have sex, and still doesn't want to divorce. At this point, you STILL have the option of just having affairs. You have nothing to lose. The worst thing that could happen is she divorces you, and you are thinking about that anyway, so no loss. But if she hasn't divorced you yet through all this, she likely won't. Continue to be a good friend to her. Be kind and gentle and courteous. Just get the sex elsewhere.

 

Lastly, if you do divorce, you need to look at money differently. You've been together a long time and built a family together. It's not YOUR money and YOUR things... it's both of yours. Be kind and unselfish. It's just money... anything you do to provide a better environment for your son is a GOOD thing for you. Look at it that way.

[ComingInHot]

Sounds to me like the reasons you are staying in a sexless marriage ie; reputation, money, comfy nest are kind of selfish. Sounds to me like the reasons you are cheating on your wife and kid are a titch selfish.

To me it sounds like the LEAST selfish thing you could do for yourself and Fam is to leave. That way your rep stays, you get to bang whomever whenever with no lying, hiding or setting a bad example for your son, your Wife won't be married to a cheater (she'll be fine when she inherits*) and your son will see happy loving parents when he hangs with either.

 

You're not 'bad'. I think what you're doing is deplorable and you should man up and stop being that guy. I ALSO totally don't get sexless relationships at all. Seems to me people would know before they marry but then I guess some people hide who they really are to get what they want.

I'm rooting for you to start doing kind and healthy things with respect to yourself, Your Wife and your son**

[DaisyLeigh1967]

To me, refusing sex, barring a medical issue, is just as selfish as an affair. To me, they are both a betrayal.

 

What do people who deny their spouses expect? Why do they feel that their spouse should just suck it up and go without?

[ComingInHot]

Daisy, I happen to agree mostly. Without getting into my stitch, I KNOW I wouldn't stay in a sexless marriage! YUCK!

However, I wouldn't cheat either.

Maybe their not doing right..... (J/K!!!)

[DaisyLeigh1967]

I have lived in one for years. Working on getting out, long story.

 

My husband does not see or care that he is doing wrong by refusing me. I don't deserve love apparently because the house is not always spotless, or some other stupid reason. So fine. I am done. Not cheating...in fact I could not care less about being with another man ever again at this point. Too much hurt.

[ComingInHot]

I'm so sorry Daisy!!

[oldshirt]

3) my financial hit. While we both work and she stands to inherit a boat load, i currently make quite a bit more.

 

Just an FYI, in many jurisdictions, most people's inheritance are protected from divorcing spouses. If you are having aspirations of hanging on untill she gets her inheritance and then divorcing her hoping you will get a chunk of it, you will likely come up disappointed.

 

 

If you are staying with her and cheating on her because she is going to be rich some day, then you are just a gold digger.

[Imezru2]

A question for Imezru2 regarding this question above. What is the role of this OW in your contemplation to divorce your wife?

 

Are you thinking about leaving her to be with this OW? Or has the OW made you realize there is a life out there and you want to move on to a new life regardless if you end up with the OW or not?

 

There is a difference.

 

 

The OW has not pressured me to leave. While I will probably persue a relationship with her once everything is over, more than anything she has made me realize that there is a life out there and I can be happy and there are other people out there that will accept me for me.

[Imezru2]

Just an FYI, in many jurisdictions, most people's inheritance are protected from divorcing spouses. If you are having aspirations of hanging on untill she gets her inheritance and then divorcing her hoping you will get a chunk of it, you will likely come up disappointed.

 

 

If you are staying with her and cheating on her because she is going to be rich some day, then you are just a gold digger.

 

No not at all. Couldn't care less what she inherits really. Only mentioned that as hoping it may soften my financial blow. For some reason it's ALWAYS the male that has to give up half of everything. Half of his 401, Half of his pension, Pay for half of the house..... while the woman's pension,401, half of everything goes untouched. I have no problems with splitting our possessions in half no matter who's paycheck paid for them. I have a big problem when women go after a mans retirement/pension/401 just because she is going to miss out.

[Imezru2]

Agree.

[/b]

 

I would also like to point out that you have no definite responses from your wife saying that this is over from what I read. All we are reading is that you like having affairs (kindly said) because you are not getting enough sex (in your opinion).

 

Obvious question which you may have answered but I missed....have you examined every possible reason why she no longer enjoys sex? (I will go back to read again.)

 

Ok. I'm not going to try to justify my infidelities. What I will say is this. I think that people that complain about a sexless marriage may come off as someone that has to have sex all the time or they aren't going to be happy. I was with her for years before we got married. After we were married I went into the military. We survived 5yrs of marriage in the military. I can honestly say I was faithful to her throughout 2 long deployments and countless other month -> 3 month separations. While sex did get less frequent the longer we were married, i supposed I expected that and was ok with it. But once a week became once every 2 or 3 weeks became 6 weeks. I now haven't had sex with her since Feb.(i think, quit keeping track) I'm not sure how other peoples marriages are or what is "enough sex" in others eyes but i don't think having sex a couple times a month is asking too much. I know it's not that she doesn't enjoy it and i don't mind giving the back rubs and doing all of the little extras just because..... but sometimes sex could be just because also.

I'm a firm believer that if you kick the dog off of the couch every time you walk in the room, that eventually the dog is not going to want to get on the couch. This is exactly what has happened. I have been denied so much over the last 10yrs. that I don't even care anymore.

Then it happened one night... someone showed me attention and made me feel like they were with me because they wanted to be with me, not because they were bound by marriage to be with me, but actually be with me for me. I didn't go out that night expecting to meet someone. Could i have said no, sure. Do i wish i would have??? Not really. It changed nothing in my house at the time. God only knows how much extra time that bought here before i was bothering her again wanting sex.

I also don't "LIKE" having affairs. Like i said, went many unhappy years without having one because of my maritial promise. However, i don't believe marriage should be a sentence either.

[oldshirt]

OK, thanks for the additional info.

 

 

I get the impression that reconciliation and working things out with your wife isn't really on your list of things to do. I also get the impression that this OW isn't really that much of a priority either. That's probably good.

 

 

So I am right in thinking that you just primarily want out? And even if this OW were to call it off or go back to her husband or even find some other man (other other man) you'd be ok with that too and you'd still want to divorce your wife????

 

 

If that is the case, my recommendation is that you bow out of the affair gracefully. If she finds out about it she will go for the throat and will slander you all over creation and she will try to take every penny and every paper clip and clothes pin that she can.

 

 

Start working with your lawyer and a professional financial advisor now to come up with a fair and workable plan that is equitable to both of you to try to ensure that it is stays amicable and cooperative.

 

 

I'd also recommend finding a marital counselor and schedule a meeting alone and work with him/her in coming up with an exit strategy of sorts that will provide the best chance of keeping the pain and chaos to a minimum.

 

 

Divorces do not have to be bloody battles and children are not harmed in amicable divorces where both parents remain committed to loving and supporting the children after divorce. Children are harmed by abuse, neglect, high conflict environments and bitter parents using them as pawns to inflict pain on each other. they are not harmed by two loving, supportive and involved parents who live in separate homes.

 

 

The counselor can help you come up with a plan to keep things as civil as possible. It may seem a little counterintuitive to see a marital counselor for divorce counseling but it actually is one of their other roles. In time you can bring your wife into it and the counselor can work with both you to achieve a civil, amicable divorce.

 

 

My personal recommendation is get your ducks in a row and your game plan as ironed out as possible with your lawyer, financial advisor and counselor before approaching your wife. Then present it to her in as compassionate manner as possible (the counselor can help you with that). Be compassionate but don't offer any false options or false expectations. you can offer her to go to divorce counseling with her but don't offer marital counseling as if reconciliation is option if it isn't.

 

 

In general if you are set on divorce, then don't get sit around twiddling your thumbs worrying what will happen with the house or the 401ks or any of that - start working with your lawyer and get the facts and find out what your legal and financial future will look like. See a counselor and find out how people really do act and react in these situations. Arm yourself with factual information and follow their advice.

 

 

this is time you need Morgan Freeman's voice in the back of your head from the Shawshank Redemption when he says, "get busy living, or get busy dying." Only in this case it is get busy reconciling or get busy divorcing. You are in a limbo that is unsustainable. The sht is going to hit the fan soon and it's going to be less catastrophic if you take a stand and take some definitive action to move on with your life whether it's as a married man in a functional marriage or divorced couple.

[truncated]

Ok. I'm not going to try to justify my infidelities. What I will say is this. I think that people that complain about a sexless marriage may come off as someone that has to have sex all the time or they aren't going to be happy. I was with her for years before we got married. After we were married I went into the military. We survived 5yrs of marriage in the military. I can honestly say I was faithful to her throughout 2 long deployments and countless other month -> 3 month separations. While sex did get less frequent the longer we were married, i supposed I expected that and was ok with it. But once a week became once every 2 or 3 weeks became 6 weeks. I now haven't had sex with her since Feb.(i think, quit keeping track) I'm not sure how other peoples marriages are or what is "enough sex" in others eyes but i don't think having sex a couple times a month is asking too much. I know it's not that she doesn't enjoy it and i don't mind giving the back rubs and doing all of the little extras just because..... but sometimes sex could be just because also.

I'm a firm believer that if you kick the dog off of the couch every time you walk in the room, that eventually the dog is not going to want to get on the couch. This is exactly what has happened. I have been denied so much over the last 10yrs. that I don't even care anymore.

Then it happened one night... someone showed me attention and made me feel like they were with me because they wanted to be with me, not because they were bound by marriage to be with me, but actually be with me for me. I didn't go out that night expecting to meet someone. Could i have said no, sure. Do i wish i would have??? Not really. It changed nothing in my house at the time. God only knows how much extra time that bought here before i was bothering her again wanting sex.

I also don't "LIKE" having affairs. Like i said, went many unhappy years without having one because of my maritial promise. However, i don't believe marriage should be a sentence either.

 

You say you went through a lot of deployments? As an army wife who has been in the position our wife is in, I would suggest that may have been part of her problem.

This is something a lot of guys don't get, and I have heard it time and time again from other army wives I know. Their spouse goes away on deployment, leaving his wife at home. She, of course, misses him, but as a matter of survival, she learns to adapt. He comes home, and in many ways, he can feel like a stranger. Time is needed to build the bonds again, but if another deployment or field duty happens soon after, she never gets that chance. It's like she's getting to know a stranger all over again each time, and it's hard to feel intimate in that situation. This can lead to anger and resentment, but she buried it, as it's not something you are "supposed" to feel.

From what I have seen, this isn't as much of an issue if the couple has been together for some time, as they will have already built strong bonds, and understand what being an army family means.

If it's a new marriage, those bonds won't have formed yet. the couple is still trying to find it's way and what it's dynamic is, then hubby has to leave again. It's not his fault, it's just the way it is.

It's different for the person who leaves, as they have many distractions and are someplace new, longing for home.

 

This is incredibly common, so much so that it even has a name:"the cycle of deployment". If you look it up, you'll see that rapid series of deployments disrupt the stabilization phase.

[Got it]

No not at all. Couldn't care less what she inherits really. Only mentioned that as hoping it may soften my financial blow. For some reason it's ALWAYS the male that has to give up half of everything. Half of his 401, Half of his pension, Pay for half of the house..... while the woman's pension,401, half of everything goes untouched. I have no problems with splitting our possessions in half no matter who's paycheck paid for them. I have a big problem when women go after a mans retirement/pension/401 just because she is going to miss out.

 

And this is why you need to talk to professionals. This is NOT true. This is not how divorce works unless both parties agree or you had some abnormal ruling.

 

Talk to a lawyer and then start working about facts not myths.

[Mr. Lucky]

First you say this:

Ok. I'm not going to try to justify my infidelities.

 

And then you devote the rest of your post to doing exactly what you say you won't do, trying to justify you affairs:

 

What I will say is this. I think that people that complain about a sexless marriage may come off as someone that has to have sex all the time or they aren't going to be happy. I was with her for years before we got married. After we were married I went into the military. We survived 5yrs of marriage in the military. I can honestly say I was faithful to her throughout 2 long deployments and countless other month -> 3 month separations. While sex did get less frequent the longer we were married, i supposed I expected that and was ok with it. But once a week became once every 2 or 3 weeks became 6 weeks. I now haven't had sex with her since Feb.(i think, quit keeping track) I'm not sure how other peoples marriages are or what is "enough sex" in others eyes but i don't think having sex a couple times a month is asking too much. I know it's not that she doesn't enjoy it and i don't mind giving the back rubs and doing all of the little extras just because..... but sometimes sex could be just because also.

I'm a firm believer that if you kick the dog off of the couch every time you walk in the room, that eventually the dog is not going to want to get on the couch. This is exactly what has happened. I have been denied so much over the last 10yrs. that I don't even care anymore.

Then it happened one night... someone showed me attention and made me feel like they were with me because they wanted to be with me, not because they were bound by marriage to be with me, but actually be with me for me. I didn't go out that night expecting to meet someone. Could i have said no, sure. Do i wish i would have??? Not really. It changed nothing in my house at the time. God only knows how much extra time that bought here before i was bothering her again wanting sex.

I also don't "LIKE" having affairs. Like i said, went many unhappy years without having one because of my maritial promise. However, i don't believe marriage should be a sentence either.

 

Regardless of the history behind you or the choices in front, at least be honest with yourself...

 

Mr. Lucky

[HermioneG]

I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree.

 

Judith Wallerstein's work- The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce does a really thorough job and has exhaustive research on this subject. I think it is an important read for anyone considering divorce with children involved.

[lollipopspot]

Divorces do not have to be bloody battles and children are not harmed in amicable divorces where both parents remain committed to loving and supporting the children after divorce. Children are harmed by abuse, neglect, high conflict environments and bitter parents using them as pawns to inflict pain on each other. they are not harmed by two loving, supportive and involved parents who live in separate homes.

 

That's a fantasy. Most divorced people also end up coupling up with new people which often does not work out well for the existing children.

[JamesM]

That's a fantasy. Most divorced people also end up coupling up with new people which often does not work out well for the existing children.

 

...and the game playing usually gets worse as the parents now dislike each other and try to get the children to play favorites and take sides.

[Michelle ma Belle]

That's a fantasy. Most divorced people also end up coupling up with new people which often does not work out well for the existing children.

 

Once again, I will have to respectfully disagree.

 

Separation and divorce do NOT have to be bloody and can end VERY amicably if for no other reason than for the sake of the children.

 

It's not fantasy. I'm living proof of this.

[JamesM]

It's not fantasy. I'm living proof of this.

 

And not to intrude (but I guess I am ), but I have also seen exceptions.

 

Unfortunately, it is not the norm that I see. It would be great if it were, but there is usually so much baggage and anger that it becomes almost impossible even if the parents put on a front.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Judith Wallerstein's work- The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce does a really thorough job and has exhaustive research on this subject. I think it is an important read for anyone considering divorce with children involved.

 

I've read this book so I'm quite familiar with it's contents. I've also read many other books on the subject with opinions and "stats" that swung from one extreme to the other. Like everything in life, this subject isn't black and white and it's not difficult to argue convincingly on either side of this issue.

 

Personally, I did my research prior to separating from my husband and the information I managed to collect made me feel better about my decision to end my marriage.

 

I am a product of parents who chose to stick it out for the sake of the children. I grew up in a house where fighting and yelling and crying was common place between my parents on a daily basis. Resentment turned to anger turned to detachment. On the surface, we were the "perfect" family but behind closed doors, it felt very unstable and I lived with constant anxiety and feelings of insecurity about what each day would bring.

 

Despite how much my parents loved me and my brother and tried to shield us, it was painfully obvious to both of us how unhappy our parents were. I couldn't understand why they couldn't love each other.

 

Growing up this way had a profound effect on me personally and how I viewed relationships and marriage which was NOT healthy. It wasn't until I found myself in the same marriage my parents had that I came to the realization that I was about to repeat the same mistakes my parents made and put my kids through what I went through.

 

A ton of soul searching and therapy followed which helped me acknowledge a great many things about my past and how those experiences shaped my present including why I chose to marry the man I did (he was oddly similar to my father). I even confronted my parents and had very candid and heartfelt conversations with them about their marriage and how it impacted me and we managed to find closure with all of it.

 

So yes, they chose to stay together but it didn't come without a price of it's own.

 

I think the bottom line is that regardless if you stay in an unhappy marriage or choose to divorce, the feelings and emotional well being of the children must be considered at all times. If you work hard to create a happy, stable and loving environment with room for open and honest communication regardless if it's in one home or two, it is possible to raise happy and healthy children. Period.

[lollipopspot]

I am a product of parents who chose to stick it out for the sake of the children. I grew up in a house where fighting and yelling and crying was common place between my parents on a daily basis.

 

Your parents had high conflict. In those cases, it may be better to separate. The OP's marriage is not high conflict.

 

You think it would have been better had your parents separated. Well, you could have ended up with a stepfather who molested you. A stepmother who competed with you and resented that you existed. Living in a much worse financial situation and having to move to worse schools. Many things are worse than parents who actually attempt to put their kids first and stay together for them.