The 11th Hour and D-Day is coming: Admissions of Fear

[elaine567]

Like in realist's case....he has his w and mow both agreeing to his relationship with both. you tell me which is worse? Living with an open relationship because no one can have him or keeping things discreet so no one gets hurt?

 

BUT his wife now has that choice, you are not giving your wife any choice in the matter and treating your MOW no better either.

 

You dithering about is ridiculous, your MOW should kick you into touch, you are promising the earth, yet forever holding back...

 

Every year that passes, your wife is wasting time with you, she doesn't have the opportunity to go find someone who does care for her.

How is she going to feel when you depart with your Long term mistress in a few years time, knowing she was only being used as some convenient nanny for your kids, whilst you and your MOW plotted?

[Lurkeraspect]

Beach,

 

Thank you and I did ask you as question about realist3 and his situation. If my situation go to that point where he is at, where his w and a/p both agree to share him openly....does the lack of integrity still apply?

 

I'm trying not to be that open because i know mow and myself would not like to share but if that's what it takes to gain acceptance and that's what you are telling me would be best to happen, then i have been looking at this all wrong.

 

 

Why are you so concerned about what Realist did. I don't know his story, but if all parties agree, then it's an open marriage. You are NOT in anything other than an affair. But yes, please ask your wife about being in an open marriage. She might surprise you and agree, giving herself the opportunity for something more sexually and emotionally fulfilling, rather than the crumbs you dole out.

 

And come on, you and MOW have been "sharing" all along. You still (gag) sleep with your wife just as she still has sex with her husband, so yea, you've been sharing since the beginning.

 

I also find it comical that you are worried about your BS dating options/choices should you divorce. From where I sit, I can't imagine any future man being worse than the man she's currently married to. I mean really...you sure do think highly of yourself. I think she could do much better than being married to a cheating, lying, gas lighting partner such as yourself.

[anne1707]

Need I say more.....

 

http://australianclimatemadness.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/flogging_dead_horse_what1.jpg

[truncated]

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Hi Truncated,

 

Stories like this.....you have no idea how much of an impact this has. I almost wish i had not read it but i did. What i don't understand is, and I have yet to look, why is it that you are so tart about the A topic? Because you were a betrayed spouse or because you too were engulfed in an A? I ask because obviously those who have been ensnared by an A often times get bitter because of what the impact and fallout.

 

Mow and I have spoken about our kids....i just don't think at length. That is why we are semi holding off on launching the LTR. There are things that you have brought up and others that I did not consider. Again, keeping the infant A in that state was fine...i just didn't know or see that an infant A needs time from both A/P's to grow and it doesn't stay an A...like a catapillar ...it turns into a butterfly..so does an infant A...never in my wildest dreams did i see it turning into an LTR....once that would command a commitment long term.

 

I think there are countless blind spots I have and there's just no way to know which decision is the best for everyone. do boht mow and i stay in miserable or less than ideal relationships knowing that we are going to leave our spouses anyway when our kids are in their teens? or do we start the journey sooner than expected?

 

 

I am "tart" because you are putting your child's emotional and mental health at risk. I am "tart" because I do not want to see your child hurt. I am "tart" because I saw other parents with children in the hospital - the in patient mental health unit, our child was there for other reasons- who's affairs had hurt their children. Their children were in a fragile state to start with, add the affair to that, and the results can be tragic. I am neither a BS or an OW, but I saw first hand what affairs and the cr@ppy behavior parents engage in can cause.

 

 

If you really love your children, tell your wife you are not happy and your want to separate. The two of you can sit down with your kids and explain the situation to them, and arrange therapy for them should you feel it's needed. Better that than your kids growing up in the houseehold where daddy is a cheater. from the sounds of it, your wife spends a lot of time on her own anyway while you are out getting some on the side, and she is a lot more resilient than you think.

 

I really think that is what you are afraid of. That she doesn't need you, taht she can be happy with out you and that one day she'll find someone who makes her estaticly joyful, and you'll be on the outside looking in. Your affair will have carshed and brned, and you'll be left alone.

 

Coward.

[Realist3]

Realist,

 

So says the man who is married and has an AP for much longer than I and boht AP and your wife know about each other and agree to share you.

 

That my friend is a dream come true.

 

Why can't you share the secrets to your success?

 

Secrets. Success.

 

They aren't secrets, and I don't think I would label them a success. They may be a success because I came clean , and don't have a cloud hanging over me driving me BSC. Your problem is that you over-dramatize the relationship. The platitudes are so thick I wonder if your OW might not be using them as a substitute for Ambien.

[Realist3]

If I spoke to my MW about our relationship the way you do on here she would laugh me out of the room.

[Versailles]

The bare facts of our situations are similar - age gap (yours 15, mine 12), length of relationship (yours 2 years, mine 1.5 years) and yes, we are all coworkers. I think you mentioned you pulled her into your department? I work in a different department from him and he is a senior manager (I'm not). But everything else about the type of relationship we have with the AP is different.

 

Yes, MM and I are both unhappy in our marriages but we accepted that we can never be together long term officially. His number one priority is his son and he believes that a child should be with his natural parents. Also, he believes she has been a good wife and mother, so he cant throw a bomb at an innocent person. So essentially he will never get out of his marriage even if he desperately wants to be with me because his son's happiness is more important than his own. So the best we can do is to continue to see each other for as long as we can.. And know that even if someday we cannot see each other anymore, we will be in each other's hearts.

 

As I mentioned, you need to decide your priorities once and for all... One moment you think your MOW is more important, then you think it's W, then you think it's kids... Once you have your priorities clear, you can take a stand. Of course you need to get the other party to understand your stance too. I understand my MM's viewpoint and why he chooses to do what he does, I will go along with his decision even though its going to break me someday when he tells me he has to stop our relationship. But it's WAY better than giving someone false hope like what you have been doing with your MOW. You are being needlessly cruel to her.. And it doesn't seem like you love her very much since you don't seem to have considered her viewpoint and her feelings so far. I cannot imagine my other half thinking of getting rid of me for his convenience without considering my feelings and long term prospects and simply hoping that I get distracted with something else. FYI when a woman has her heart set on something, a mere job isn't going to distract her, I guarantee you that!

 

Hi Versailles,

 

Thank you for your post.

 

I read your thread. Interesting....same situation....how much older is your mom than you? also, you have been in the A for about the same time i have. intriguing.

 

You mentioned your a/p and you are both unhappy in your marriages. Do you plan to continue to see each other in A style or has the thought of making longer plans come up?

 

I agree with you.....i have to make a decision however just like you, maybe you and your mom have not talked about moving to the next stage. i want to but as you probably know....with kids and such....it changes things..makes things more complex.....must take all circumstances into consideration and not act or move impulsively. Hence, LS here the feedback is wonderful, brutal and hurtful sometimes but i can take it because there's sincerity in the words.

 

I do want to know more about your A since its obvious you are in almost a too close for comfort situation that I am in.

[beach]

Beach,

 

Thank you and I did ask you as question about realist3 and his situation. If my situation go to that point where he is at, where his w and a/p both agree to share him openly....does the lack of integrity still apply?

 

I'm trying not to be that open because i know mow and myself would not like to share but if that's what it takes to gain acceptance and that's what you are telling me would be best to happen, then i have been looking at this all wrong.

 

You took my post and twisted it to suit you.

 

 

And look at what you posted - it's comical... You and your affair person don't like sharing yet you're both married and having sex with your spouses.

 

And I never suggested what you infer. I suggested you seek professional help because you are emotionally deficient and lack integrity and a conscience.

 

And you know from history that my suggestion is to leave both women alone - and to do intensive work to improve yourself.

[Realist3]

The reason my situation my be labeled a success is because we are past the dreams of unicorns and rainbows. We accept it for what it is, and what it is not. It is a comfortable agreement. We aren't swept away with wild dreams of some utopian ending; it is more like a Greek tragedy.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Realist3

[anne1707]

The reason my situation my be labeled a success is because we are past the dreams of unicorns and rainbows. We accept it for what it is, and what it is not. It is a comfortable agreement. We aren't swept away with wild dreams of some utopian ending; it is more like a Greek tragedy.

 

Please Realist! Don't give him any more ideas that he could BS about! Or maybe he could do a Game of Thrones version of his affair....

[AlwaysGrowing]

Please Realist! Don't give him any more ideas that he could BS about! Or maybe he could do a Game of Thrones version of his affair....

 

 

You mean this isn't already a male translation of Cersei's journals?

[conflictedlove]

The reason my situation my be labeled a success is because we are past the dreams of unicorns and rainbows. We accept it for what it is, and what it is not. It is a comfortable agreement. We aren't swept away with wild dreams of some utopian ending; it is more like a Greek tragedy.

 

Hi Realist,

 

Thank you and I would like to ask how EXACTLY did you introduce your w to your ow in terms having your w accept it or leave you? And how did you get both ow and your w to agree to share you?

 

Yes, you are living the dream. 1 man, 2 women, both wiling to share him.....who wouldn't long to have that? Most feedback I've received here on LS folks would stone me knowing I've been with my mow and w on the same night intimately....yet you somehow have ACHIEVED the impossible.. having a open relationship with your w and your ow. There has to be more to this?

[Cressida]

Hi Realist,

 

Thank you and I would like to ask how EXACTLY did you introduce your w to your ow in terms having your w accept it or leave you? And how did you get both ow and your w to agree to share you?

 

Yes, you are living the dream. 1 man, 2 women, both wiling to share him.....who wouldn't long to have that? Most feedback I've received here on LS folks would stone me knowing I've been with my mow and w on the same night intimately....yet you somehow have ACHIEVED the impossible.. having a open relationship with your w and your ow. There has to be more to this?

 

Conflictedlove, is this really you? Did someone steal your username and password?

I find that there has been a huge transformation from the devastated, confused guy who was so in love with his MW and torn between her and the affection and care for his W, and now you seem to be either mocking other people for their own situations, or asking for advice on how to keep 'an open' relationship....

 

Is this what your MW wants? I thought you said she wanted a relationship with you, and being together and all that. Is this what your W wants? To know you're coming home with another woman's vaginal fluids on your man parts? Are you serious?

 

I don't know, I got the feeling that I was one of the very few people who took your story seriously, but I cannot for the life of me imagine what goes on in your mind....what is going on there? Have you made any progress in your relationship and marriage? How did you spend your holidays, with your wife and family, I suppose? And what did you tell the MW?

 

Have you decided on what you'll eventually tell her about your unwillingness to leave your family, as previously discussed by you here? It's been a while since you wrote and time has been flying....any changes?

[Realist3]

Hi Realist,

 

Thank you and I would like to ask how EXACTLY did you introduce your w to your ow in terms having your w accept it or leave you? And how did you get both ow and your w to agree to share you?

 

Yes, you are living the dream. 1 man, 2 women, both wiling to share him.....who wouldn't long to have that? Most feedback I've received here on LS folks would stone me knowing I've been with my mow and w on the same night intimately....yet you somehow have ACHIEVED the impossible.. having a open relationship with your w and your ow. There has to be more to this?

 

I never introduced her to anything. When she found out I had no idea how she would react. She just asked who it was, and that I keep it out of her face. That all that was ever said about it.

 

The background played a significant role in her reaction. Some 14 years ago after 7 years of marriage we started to have some serious discussions about divorce. She ended up getting pregnant, and those discussions ended. Some years later I had a secret admirer/stalker problem, and she flat out said, "If or when you do take one of these women up on their offer, I don't want to know about it and I especially don't want to hear about it in our social circle. Do not embarrass me." So clearly in her mind it was not out of the realm of possibility. While she didn't hear about it from our social circle, the MW is definitely in our social circle.

 

 

As for MW right near the beginning we had a very long discussion about what the A would be and not be. She said she didn't want to be a homewrecker to either of our families, and that was that. We agreed there would never be any plans/hopes/dreams of us leaving our families to be together. While the subject has come up now and again it never goes anywhere beyond idle chit chat. Us being together openly is about the last thing on my mind. I'm more interested to see how we transition in the coming year to several different dynamics loomng on the horizon.

[Cressida]

Realist, you realize that it won't last. Even if she's married, she won't forever be with you in that type of relationship as some women need excitement and plain drama....or just change of decorum...nothing 'good' lasts forever...or one of you will fall for the other one...prepare for that one

[conflictedlove]

Conflictedlove, is this really you?

Have you decided on what you'll eventually tell her about your unwillingness to leave your family, as previously discussed by you here? It's been a while since you wrote and time has been flying....any changes?

 

Conflictedlove, is this really you?

Have you decided on what you'll eventually tell her about your unwillingness to leave your family, as previously discussed by you here? It's been a while since you wrote and time has been flying....any changes?

 

Hi Cressida

 

Yes i'm sorry its me. I apologize. It was late and honestly, you are correct. I lost my mind there for a moment. yes its thrilling to be wiht two women at the moment but its not something i am after long term. forgive me and thank you for shaking me out of it. I really am grieved and i think i was using my choice of words yesterday in a way to help cope but that really doesn't help.

 

Thank you for sincerely thinking about me and the situation. Things are spiraling so fast i can't keep up or keep my head about water anymore.

 

mow has taken a job at a new company. i have really encouraged her to do it so we would not be working at the same place and if we are meant to be, that we will have a higher likelyhood of success not working together and living our lives like most people...away from each other for most of our days during the week. It's like a test....do we have the strength and will to survive for next 6-12 months or will the forces of a new job, being away from each other and being pre-occupied life, kids etc force us to drift away emotionally....to the point of no return

 

It's one thing to have a fall out or disagreement with someone you can see, talk to and reconcile quickly. It's another when you don't see that person that often during the week so settling for disagreeing and not talking is things out is going to be easier to do....and the heart slowly may start to harden.

 

mow will be training for 2 months..so i will still be able to talk to her after work but that's it with her busy schedule....i just felt like this was the best thing for her. To push her to a new career and job that she would find satisfying and feel like she's making progress....knowing it may come at the cost of our relationship. We don't want to say it or even think it...but i know i do..and i'm sure she does too!

 

I do have to share that mow, as i've disclosed here....does want to break the news to her h that she no longer loves him. i asked her to wait until she gets counseling to determine what she wants (she swears she wants her and i and i believe it) but i think she needs to be on her own for at least 6 months (her and i will still be a/p's but not open) so she can get adjusted to being a single parent, dealing with child care, visitation etc. I don't want her to jump into a relationship with me right after her separation if that's the way she chooses.

 

as for my w and i, many things keep coming up in my mind. my kids and the impact on them...how my w would manage....how she would cope....i don't think she would cope well.....and as a decision maker in the home and leader, i feel a strong sense of guilt and letting them down. i keeps me up at night. there's a big part of me that wants to be with mow because we are more aligned from a personality, emotional and affectionate side. We are very close although mow married young so never really had the life expierences of dating like i had during her age (i married later on in life in late 20's whereas mow married pre 20's). mow's relationships took place from school age to shortly thereafter..so a lot of intimate relationships but none with the chance of commitment that such a young age for her and boys she was with really knew.

 

This lack of life romantic relationships is a fear of mine since mow may not know what she really wants or can compare to what she's had so she knows for certain what's out there.

 

As for my w, i can honestly say our kids and her dependency on me has kept me with her all this time. There are benefits to having a spouse who's dependent. There are also a side that's not. If i felt confident my w would land on her own confidently and would be able to support herself, i would be more likely have separated long ago. my w has never known another man except for me intimately so its very difficult to let go of that. I can see her wandering around looking for a man and just stepping on all kinds of traps on dating sites and the like. if my kids were not present, i would not have the concerns i do now. I fear for the implications of what my w would subject them to as she sought out a relationship with no real past experience.

 

my biggest fear......as i have wept alone at night and on the way to work, after leaving mow, is that this is the beginning of the end. Once she gets fully drowning in her new job, that will be the point where we long to keep each other but will know we can't. i can see it happening and maybe that's why im more prepared and really have to think about mow's life and as much as she wants to leave her h, she can do it without me as a backdrop. I would almost feel better if she did.

 

the end is near. very near. its going to be mow or my w. a decision is being made for me if i don't decide. i love both for different reasons...however if i had to be honest at this moment...my heart belongs to mow....the problem is can any relationship really go the distant when its born of infidelity? if we both have the covert ability to hide it over the last 1.5 years, what makes us thing we can't do it again?

[conflictedlove]

Realist, you realize that it won't last. Even if she's married, she won't forever be with you in that type of relationship as some women need excitement and plain drama....or just change of decorum...nothing 'good' lasts forever...or one of you will fall for the other one...prepare for that one

 

Hi Cressida,

 

The relationships with realist is remarkable. Having the commitment from 2 women who both know they will share the same man.....it's as if is a 1 in a million. i only thought it was a blissful thought since he's been able to pull off having an A and being with his w and its clearly open. I never thought it possible but it's happening. He's done something that maybe no one has ever thought about doing..that is never having to worry about losing his loves..plural.

[still_an_Angel]

 

 

 

I do have to share that mow, as i've disclosed here....does want to break the news to her h that she no longer loves him. i asked her to wait until s

he gets counseling to determine what she wants (she swears she wants her and i and i believe it) but i think she needs to be on her own for at least 6 months (her and i will still be a/p's but not open) so she can get adjusted to being a single parent, dealing with child care, visitation etc. I don't want her to jump into a relationship with me right after her separation if that's the way she chooses.

 

Agree, as it is, she wants to leave her M to be with you. I believe she must be of the mindset that she is leaving her M for herself, that this decision is because this is what is best for her. Its like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. If you are not included in the equation, would she leave her M anyway? That she will still walk with or without you as the 'prize' at the end of the separation? You also need to leave her alone after she separates from her H, and you have to tell her this. No point in still being APs if you want her to achieve clarity with her decision.

 

 

as for my w and i, many things keep coming up in my mind. my kids and the impact on them...how my w would manage....how she would cope....i don't think she would cope well.....and as a decision maker in the home and leader, i feel a strong sense of guilt and letting them down. i keeps me up at night.

 

 

For how long do you think you will hold her hand and guide her through her life? You are not her parent and she will never learn how to cope with life if you are always there to tell her what to do. If you die tomorrow, will she sink or swim? Don't underestimate your W's ability to cope, her inner core will come out if she is pushed to the edge.

 

 

 

 

 

As for my w, i can honestly say our kids and her dependency on me has kept me with her all this time. There are benefits to having a spouse who's dependent. There are also a side that's not. If i felt confident my w would land on her own confidently and would be able to support herself, i would be more likely have separated long ago. my w has never known another man except for me intimately so its very difficult to let go of that. I can see her wandering around looking for a man and just stepping on all kinds of traps on dating sites and the like. if my kids were not present, i would not have the concerns i do now. I fear for the implications of what my w would subject them to as she sought out a relationship with no real past experience.

 

 

 

 

If you do separate, you have to accept that what she does is totally out of your control. She has to learn at some point how to deal with that, how else will she gain experience? I think you are being unfair, treating her like a child with no mind of her own. You might be surprised what a girl is capable of once the ocean is opened and her world expands.

 

I understand your concerns as what she does directly impacts on the kids, but you are not out of the picture, you still have parental rights and it is your job to look after their welfare - 50%, just like hers. If something is not right, its your responsibility to sort this out with her, like a proper parent should.

 

 

 

 

 

my biggest fear......as i have wept alone at night and on the way to work, after leaving mow, is that this is the beginning of the end. Once she gets fully drowning in her new job, that will be the point where we long to keep each other but will know we can't. i can see it happening and maybe that's why im more prepared and really have to think about mow's life and as much as she wants to leave her h, she can do it without me as a backdrop. I would almost feel better if she did.

 

 

Once she has a taste of what's out there, the possibilities are endless, she has no commitment to you and can find somebody else who is able to give her what she wants. Again, this will be out of your control. Maybe you have doubts of her love for you? Are you her exit relationship from her M?

 

 

 

the end is near. very near. its going to be mow or my w. a decision is being made for me if i don't decide. i love both for different reasons...however if i had to be honest at this moment...my heart belongs to mow....the problem is can any relationship really go the distant when its born of infidelity? if we both have the covert ability to hide it over the last 1.5 years, what makes us thing we can't do it again?

 

 

Either way it plays out, would you be happy with your M? or ending up with MOW? Since you can't have both, now is the time to decide which way to go, because the decision that will be made for you might not be what you want. Yet you're not doing anything about it.

 

There is a very small percentage of successful relationships borne out of infidelity, but you are already questioning it now, you're not even there yet. I think with your inability to decide and work towards your goal, the success of either relationship is not guaranteed. Sorry to be gloomy about it, but your indecisiveness is frustrating. There are no guarantees in life, your survival depends on your ability to cope with changes and challenges in life.

[Cressida]

conflictedlove, I hope she meets someone new and dumps your ass straight away. No offense but that's what you deserve.

 

You can imagine that her meeting someone else is a high possibility as she changed work and environment. You shouldn't have pushed her to do so, as you had no reason to play God with her life.

 

I am still unsure whether what you're saying is 100% accurate or you're writing a book or something. Seriously, your replies are out of this world. I'm really sorry to say so, but you seem to have some sort of behavioral problems, you could benefit from professional help, therapy or counseling.

[beach]

I think you have an issue with your need to control everyone/everything.

 

Has anyone in your daily life ever told you that?

[anika99]

Hi Cressida,

 

The relationships with realist is remarkable. Having the commitment from 2 women who both know they will share the same man.....it's as if is a 1 in a million. i only thought it was a blissful thought since he's been able to pull off having an A and being with his w and its clearly open. I never thought it possible but it's happening. He's done something that maybe no one has ever thought about doing..that is never having to worry about losing his loves..plural.

 

I doubt that Realist's wife really "knows". He claims she does because of one of the cuff remark she made a long time ago, but if you read his very first thread on Love shack he tells a very different story.

[conflictedlove]

You can imagine that her meeting someone else is a high possibility as she changed work and environment

 

HI Cressida / LS Friends,

 

Well, the time has come. I have been away for a few weeks due to MOW taking a new role at a new company. Yes, its finally done.

 

What does this mean?

 

Well, for starters, its the beginning of the end. As i reflect back over the last 22+ months, my heart is filled with great sadness and joy. The joy of all the time and love we shared. Never to happen again. She really was my biggest supporter and I was hers. That will never change but we will never be who were planned on. That is the great sorrow of all this. Most A's end in the first 3-6 months for lack of depth or commitment. Hitting 1 year is an achievement of its own. Hitting 2 years is def proof that the relationship has the ingredients to go to the next step.

 

Alas, after receiving so much feedback here on LS....I had to make the choice to cut my own heart out at the best interest of mow. We got her a new company to work for so we won't see each other as much as we did. I know that we are going to fade away. I hate to admit it, but there's no way around it. MOW is a great position and pays more, she's much happier and in the end, her new job will give her the satisfaction she needs to fill in the void of us. I know I am so lonely at this thought but i had to do this for her and for me. She needs to decide what she will do with her life, her h, her m and her kids. I suspect that once i'm formally out of the picture, she stays with him or finds another MOM. Knowing that she doesn't leave him absent me is more telling than I would like to admit.

 

The next weeks will be the fade to black. I don't know if I should even tell her or suggest its too hard to her or just let time and her new job fill in the void of us. Either way, this A appears to be ending in a way that I never thought would. I could keep it going, but really, how long can we stay in a situation that we just won't see each other much anymore and i don't know if i have it in me to destroy my w by leaving her. my w probably would be happier elsewhere, but my kids may never forgive me. that guilt i fear may lead to all kinds of problems for them in school and socially.

 

By having mow take another role and work for a different company was extremely hard to do....but here in LS the feedback and comments were so strong about this that i felt like i had to do this. Losing my own heart for the sake of saving someone else's may be noble but in the end, i will end up crushed beyond measure. Deep down, I don't know if there was really any other way.

 

So now, the A ship starts to sink. The hole is at the bottom....i caused it....if only to save mow and her life.....and as the captain.....i will go down with the ship at the expense of sparing mow, her family, my family and the support of LS family here.

[awkward]

So now, the A ship starts to sink. The hole is at the bottom....i caused it....if only to save mow and her life.....and as the captain.....i will go down with the ship at the expense of sparing mow, her family, my family and the support of LS family here.

 

Congrats on saving MOW and her life. Also, on sparing your own family. As the Captain, I am sure it will be hard going down with the ship. Are you steering the ship in any way or just giving up and allowing the water to penetrate the deck?

 

Did you used to post here about trains and offspring under a different name?

[beach]

That's good to hear.

 

What do you plan to do differently so that you feel more connected to your wife and family?

[WakingUp]

Congrats on saving MOW and her life. Also, on sparing your own family. As the Captain, I am sure it will be hard going down with the ship. Are you steering the ship in any way or just giving up and allowing the water to penetrate the deck?

 

Did you used to post here about trains and offspring under a different name?

 

Yes he did, I have been waiting for the sinking ship! Looks like he missed the runaway train this time.

 

 

I have the most bizarre visualisation of the ship going down with conflicted standing to attention on the bow...

 

 

Then grabbing his bag and dashing to meet the runaway train...

 

 

Then being unable to perform in the back of the car (yes its the same guy)

 

 

Can spot him a mile off.