Girlfriend was planning to go to university, but now probably not

[cm00]

Another update. She is definitely coming back, she tells me, on the flight she booked. She had already told her dad she is coming back and she has told him she will tell her mother after the holiday (doesn't want to spoil the last few days of it).

 

She is going to tell her mother she is leaving, she is not asking for approval.

[cm00]

She is back in Slovakia now, she has told her dad and the oldest of her two brothers that she is definitely leaving. The mother doesn't know yet, she was going to try to talk to the mother again but has decided not to, no good will come from it, only bad.

 

She talked with her mother about it before. The mother has threatened her, and she ended with "You're not going, accept it".

 

The mother is proving to be very manipulative and controlling. The mother is trying to make my girlfriend feel weak and worthless. For instance, they were sat having dinner at the table, and the mother picked on my girlfriends eating, she said she is cutting her meat differently now, and she doesn't like it, she said you never used to cut it like that. She said don't cut it so small.

 

Her mother also mentioned her dislike about her weight, apparently she is too skinny now. Not that it matters, but her weight hasn't changed, she has been weighing herself since she came to England, 54kg when she arrived, 54kg when she left.

 

Also the mother is guilting her for being unhappy, not being so talkative with her, not giving her hugs like she used to. She has said since you left to be with him you've changed, you're not the same any more, I don't like it. Her mother seems oblivious to the fact that it is her who is responsible, after all, she is trying to force her daughter to stay at home.

 

Her mother even tried to say that I am the reason she is unhappy, that I manipulated her and made her this way. My girlfriend tells me she felt so angry when her mother said this, she said she knows it's not true. The mother is pushing my girlfriend away from her and doesn't see it.

 

My girlfriend was crying to me, in a real state, about the things her mother has been doing or has said since she got back. The same as she was crying to me about all the things her mother has done in the past. Clearly I am not the manipulator here. I've never taken advantage of her.

 

"You're not leaving, accept it" Spoken like a shameless controller.

Her mother is the one who will have to "accept it". She has chosen to leave and she can not force her to stay.

 

The dad is a lot wiser, when he and the mother talked in private, my girlfriend told me what the dad had told her they had said. The mother said to him "If she leaves, we've lost her" He replied "No, if we make her stay, we've lost her" But the mother doesn't see it this way or care, she is blind to everything except for what she wants.

Edited September 2, 2014 by cm00

[justwhoiam]

You know who's causing all this drama? Your "girlfriend".

 

1) She's not a minor and she can leave whenever.

2) Why doesn't she leave home if she wants to? Is she financially dependent on her parents?

3) Why did she go on holiday with them if the atmosphere is so tense and uncomfortable? Sorry, but I don't get that. If you have to make a stand, you need to be firm.

4) She's unable to stand for herself, maybe she won't in the future either, or maybe she will but needs to grow up.

5) How can you make plans with someone who is so emotionally insecure and cannot even stand for herself?

6) Would you consider such person ready to create a family?

7) The more you give us details, the more I need to agree with TMichaels on this. I'm sorry you can't see this clearly and objectively.

[cm00]

I know exactly what is going on with her mother. The mother has become a codependant parent, my girlfriend is enabling it by being the way she has always been. So while you could say they are both to blame, this is all my gilrlfriend has ever known, she was not even aware that the situation wasn't normal.

 

She knows now, she didn't realise how she would feel until she went home. I told her she wouldn't feel good and would start to resent her mother. She needed to experience this for herself. She tells me she doesn't feel the same with her mother any more, she doesn't feel happy there, she doesn't want to hug her, doesn't want to laugh with her. She told me "I know if I stayed only because she wanted me to, it would be even worse." She said you were right about everything. The most ridiculous thing is that her mother is trying to blame me that she is behaving this way, making her feel guilty for being different now, telling her I manipulated her. My girlfriend was hoping her mother would realise she is unhappy and let her go and be happy, but instead her mother said that it was all my fault. It made her very angry at her mother that she said those things about me. She sees the manipulative ways of her mother now.

 

She has had this bad codependant relationship with her mother and now it is coming to an end but she had to see it for what it is for herself. She knows now how a relationship should really be and she doesn't want to live back there with her mother like that again, under her control. Ever since she got back, her mother controls and ridicules her all the time. After living away from that for some time, she can now see it for what it is.

 

It was always going to be a big drama breaking away from the control of her mother, but I believe it is almost over. I realise her mother will have a meltdown, but it doesn't change anything, she will already be safely away from her.

 

She will leave on her flight back to England in one week. She isn't telling her mother she is leaving to avoid the drama that it will cause. We suspect her mother would go to such lengths as fake collapsing and getting herself rushed to hospital just to make her miss the flight, as she has already claimed to have a heart problem and said if you leave my heart won't take it and I will die. She also doesn't want her mother to take it out on the father, which she might if she leaves with them all knowing about. It's harder for her to blame the father if it appears she left of her own accord without telling anyone.

 

This isn't all so bad, it's just the mother, she is the problem. The father is okay with it, even the oldest brother knows and is keeping quiet. They all know the mother has a problem, my girlfriend told me her father has known there is something wrong for a long time.

 

About blaming the drama on my girlfriend. Yes she could take some blame for that but this is all she has ever known. She never saw this from an outside perspective. It's only after being away from that situation that she is finally realising that she is actually the one in control of her life and her mother has no right to control her life. You don't see how she is and the things she tells me, this is all she ever known, and the mother has always gotten her way. We here know it's wrong, but she is only just realising this, having been traumatised by the mother, and living this way her entire life.

 

She realises it is her choice now, and she is leaving. For me to end this relationship with her now would probably mess her up for life. Why would I do such a thing? It is all working out.

Edited September 2, 2014 by cm00

[cm00]

She is pregnant, did a home test three times, all positive.

She is going to wait until after she leaves to tell anyone. She was a bit stressed at first but now she is happy about it. She is going to keep it.

Edited September 3, 2014 by cm00

[justwhoiam]

Good luck. Be prepared to support two other people with a single income. And she might not work in the next 3 years. Or beyond that.

[cm00]

We'll be okay, I have family support and several options. One possibility to get our finances kickstarted is to become a landlord and rent my house out, the rent is equivalent to a second salary. Move back to my parents for a while, they have a big house so we wouldn't be getting in each others way too much.

 

My goal is to save enough to get a mortgage on a second house and live in one house, always renting the other out. The rent covers the mortgage.

 

We've brought our plans forward. She isn't coming on 10th september any more, she is leaving very late at night tomorrow, or early in the morning the next day, whichever way you look at it. It's just a lot easier and more convinient for her come then instead of the 10th.

[cm00]

Everything went as I said, she is back with me now.

[cm00]

Her mum is trying all kinds of manipulation strategies to get her back.

 

First she tried being angry, raging, didn't work.

 

Then she tried playing the victim, didn't work.

 

She tried begging.

 

Next she tried to get us both to go to slovakia to "talk" about this, on the soonest possible flight. Yeah right, i am not that stupid. She will never let her leave. She later gave away this was her plan.

 

She tried a few more things, but the latest thing she is trying is really opening the eyes of my girlfriend.

 

My girlfriend and her mother were talking on facebook. The mother started to say that I couldn't be trusted. She said "A few people came to the house, they said not to trust him". My girlfriend said this seemed weird. A few people came to the house? Who are these people? She said my mother is making this up. She also said I've been sending you messages on facebook, which are marked as "seen" But you didn't reply, I think he is deleting your messages. (in reality she saw the messages but didn't reply because there was nothing she could reply).

 

Suddenly during this conversation, she told my girlfriend to go on skype, your father has sent you a message. My girlfriend checked skype. There was two deleted messages from her father, they were sent and deleted within the past half an hour. During this time I was cooking our dinner in the kitchen and my girlfriend was sat on the laptop within sight of me. I quickly figured out her mother was doing. She wants my girlfriend to think I am logging into her account and deleting her messages. My girlfriend knows this is impossible, due to the circumstances I've already mentioned. I also don't know her password.

 

Next her "dad" supposedly started to send her a message on a skype. It was more like an essay really, it was made to appear that her father wrote it, but clearly it was the mother. It took about 10 minutes to read it all. This was not the dad, it was the irrational thoughts and feelings of her mother. We also noticed her dad was signed in on his other secret skype account, that he uses at work. Yet more evidence that her mum is behind all of this.

 

I've never seen my girlfriend get so angry, she slammed her fists on the table and shouted **** this. She was so angry that her mum was trying to trick her, that she was using her dad, and that she was trying to turn her against me through lies and deceit.

 

We haven't told her mum we know, she can't know, or it could cause problems for her dad, so we are just keeping quiet that we know what she is up to. My girlfriend got an ultrasound today and saw her baby. She is happy here and is staying. She won't go back to slovakia any time soon, and in the future, only if I go with her. (she feels that unsafe around her mother).

 

This helped my girlfriend be more sure she made the right choice, and she feels better about her choice now, after seeing what her mother is capable off. She seems really hurt that her mother is lying to her and trying to trick her to turn her against me.

Edited September 11, 2014 by cm00

[justwhoiam]

You can only delete your own messages on Skype, not other people's messages, and only for a limited time after you sent the messages. Or you can clean your history, but in that case you won't see anything about any deleted messages.

 

I'm sure there are so many other things you haven't seen of your girlfriend.

 

Anyway, how do you think she will be allowed to stay in the country? You do understand that she can't cut her mother off, because she has no other place to go, should she be forced to go back to her country.

[TAV]

Why do you say: She saw her baby. That sounds weird unless the baby is not yours.

[justwhoiam]

Why do you say: She saw her baby. That sounds weird unless the baby is not yours.

Looks like a Freudian slip.........

[cm00]

I said it because I wasn't in the room while she had the scan, so I didn't see it with her. I said "her baby" because it is inside her.

 

Guess I could have said "our baby" but didn't, no big deal.

[cm00]

You can only delete your own messages on Skype, not other people's messages, and only for a limited time after you sent the messages. Or you can clean your history, but in that case you won't see anything about any deleted messages.

 

I'm sure there are so many other things you haven't seen of your girlfriend.

 

Anyway, how do you think she will be allowed to stay in the country? You do understand that she can't cut her mother off, because she has no other place to go, should she be forced to go back to her country.

 

Exactly, you can only delete your own messages. Some messages that came from her dads skype account said "This message has been removed" Which means they were deleted by her mother who was using his account. Like you said, my girlfriend can't delete someone elses messages. The mum first did this within 30 minutes of talking to her and telling her that I am deleting her messages and she shouldn't trust me and that she should go on skype to read her fathers message, only to find it was deleted. It's no coincidence, the mother wanted to frame me, though wasn't very clever about it.

 

They also talk in Slovakian and I can't read slovakian so there is nothing to hide from me. She translates everything.

 

As a member of the EU she is allowed to live and work freely in the UK for as long as she wants. Once she has been here for 5 years she can even apply to become a UK citizen.

 

Her mother has no control over her any more. I've told her this can't go on because it is damaging the relationship. She has chosen to be with me and it seems more certain than ever that she will stay here. I made it clear to her that all this drama and stress with her mother must stop. I can't really explain it in a good way but she realised then that this drama must stop or she will lose this relationship with me.

Edited September 12, 2014 by cm00

[acrosstheuniverse]

Be prepared for a lifetime of struggle with your girlfriend and her family. If they're as awful as you say they are, then they won't give up lightly and especially when she becomes a parent herself she's likely to feel awful for abandoning them and end up missing her mother, she'll be grieving for the family she used to have while trying to get used to being a new mum living in a foreign country. I wish you both all of the best, but this is not going to be an easy ride. It's easy to just hope that now she's in a separate country to them all will be well and calm, but I guarantee you it will not end here.

[TAV]

I said it because I wasn't in the room while she had the scan, so I didn't see it with her. I said "her baby" because it is inside her.

 

Guess I could have said "our baby" but didn't, no big deal.

 

Being a parent for the first time should be something major in your life. You seem to think the drama with her mom is what it is all about. No sign of awareness on your part, also in your last post, that you are going to be a father. I can't help but find that odd.

 

I am not sure why you are still posting on LS anyway, you have her there, there is a baby on the way; what the posters here think should be the furthest thing from your mind.

 

If this is actually happening to you I wonder why you keep threatening your gf to end this relationship if she does not do as you tell her to. Pretty much similar to the manipulation/controlling her mom used to do.

 

Anyway, also in this aspect the baby just seems like a commodity to you since you show no concern over the fact that kicking her out will mean an uncertain future for the unborn child.

 

How old were you again? Around 30 I believe? I'd expected more maturity.

[cm00]

Being a parent for the first time should be something major in your life. You seem to think the drama with her mom is what it is all about. No sign of awareness on your part, also in your last post, that you are going to be a father. I can't help but find that odd.

 

I am not sure why you are still posting on LS anyway, you have her there, there is a baby on the way; what the posters here think should be the furthest thing from your mind.

 

If this is actually happening to you I wonder why you keep threatening your gf to end this relationship if she does not do as you tell her to. Pretty much similar to the manipulation/controlling her mom used to do.

 

Anyway, also in this aspect the baby just seems like a commodity to you since you show no concern over the fact that kicking her out will mean an uncertain future for the unborn child.

 

How old were you again? Around 30 I believe? I'd expected more maturity.

 

Yes being a parent for the first time is something major in your life. But recently the constant drama with her mother has dominated most of our thoughts. Even my own parents agree that it has to stop or she should just go home. I am not blaming my girlfriend for the drama of her mother, it's the way she has been responding to it that was causing problems. Making her upset and stressed all day, every day, after her mum does something new, says stuff to upset her. She is pregnant and all this stress could harm the baby, she more than likely could lose it. All the stress has to stop and her mother is the source of this as she has been constantly trying to get her to go back, mostly through manipulation, guilt, making her feel bad.

 

There's a new development now and I think we can begin to move past this finally. Her mother wasn't getting through to her, so she wanted to speak to me, I guess she thought if the daughter couldn't be swayed, she would try me instead. I told her mother the facts as well as some hard truths. Afterwards, her father called us by himself and apologised for the way her mother had talked to me and he said that after I spoke to the mother today he sees a change in her, he said she needed to hear the things I said to her, things that he just can't say to her. He said that my girlfriends brothers were defending me afterwards, because the mother didn't like what I said, but they were telling her that I did it because I was standing up for her.

 

All of her family support us, it's only the mother who has not accepted this, I am sure she will eventually come round. It will take a while for her to accept this but she will, it's only normal that eventually she will accept this.

 

I find it quite offensive some of the comments being wrote here. Her father and brothers support us, but I suppose you guys on a forum who don't see the full situation know better? No chance. Ususally when I post here I am not holding back on the fact that I feel a bit fed up with the stress her mother is causing and so I write in a way that puts that across. But it really does look like the worst has passed now. Just needs a lot of time for the mother to accept this.

Edited September 13, 2014 by cm00

[cm00]

Be prepared for a lifetime of struggle with your girlfriend and her family. If they're as awful as you say they are, then they won't give up lightly and especially when she becomes a parent herself she's likely to feel awful for abandoning them and end up missing her mother, she'll be grieving for the family she used to have while trying to get used to being a new mum living in a foreign country. I wish you both all of the best, but this is not going to be an easy ride. It's easy to just hope that now she's in a separate country to them all will be well and calm, but I guarantee you it will not end here.

 

Her family support us, it's just the mother with a problem, and it's only because she is having a hard time letting go, not because she has anything against me personally. The mother formed a codepedant relationship with her daughter, that's why this is all such a big problem for her. Right now, she feels that she just can't let go. In time, she will move past that codepenancy and accept his. Her father and brothers are trying to make the mother see sense too. I am sure this will all be okay in the end.

 

She is pregnant, and she is very happy about it.

Edited September 13, 2014 by cm00

[acrosstheuniverse]

I am not sure why you are still posting on LS anyway, you have her there, there is a baby on the way; what the posters here think should be the furthest thing from your mind.

 

If this is actually happening to you I wonder why you keep threatening your gf to end this relationship if she does not do as you tell her to. Pretty much similar to the manipulation/controlling her mom used to do.

 

Anyway, also in this aspect the baby just seems like a commodity to you since you show no concern over the fact that kicking her out will mean an uncertain future for the unborn child.

 

How old were you again? Around 30 I believe? I'd expected more maturity.

 

I think a lot of people here are being really unnecessarily harsh to the poster, why shouldn't he keep posting on loveshack? It often helps to discuss things, helps clear your head and helps you see things more clearly. And his difficult situation is not over by a LONG shot, as I mentioned earlier. The problems are only just beginning now that you have a very young, pregnant girlfriend far away from home, with family drama and tensions. Again, I would be surprised if things run smoothly now. As this baby grows inside her she's likely even more to miss her parents and her family, however they've behaved towards her. She will want to share becoming a mother with her own mother, she will want the baby to have grandparents, she might want to go back and raise the child in Slovakia (even if England objectively is the best place to live, it's still not her home), if she's been emotionally damaged by her mother she might start to feel guilty for what she perceives herself as putting her mother through, she might want to be close to her father who she feels loved and supported by, etc. etc.

 

You've come here for advice but all you seem to be getting is weird posts from that Michaels guy talking about irrelevant stuff, and people slagging off your maturity. Many new fathers don't actually realise the severity of their situation until the baby is in their arms. And I don't think you're controlling or manipulating your girlfriend, unless I've missed anything. You are right to want the right relationship for yourself and to call things off if she isn't even going to be in the same country as you.

 

However: I do think you're not seeing things clearly, when you say things like 'it's just the mother who's the problem, in time she will move past this codependency and accept this'; if this dynamic is entrenched from the start of your girlfriend's life then both of them could find it incredibly difficult to move on. Her mother might play sweet now until she gets to see your girlfriend again, and then start up her games. Your girlfriend, as I already mentioned, probably has a strong bond with her mother, the person that created her, and this is going to hurt her even more when she becomes a mother herself.

 

Also, GCSE C in Maths and English are basically absolute MINIMUM requirements for a job, they won't help her get a job, it's just that the absence of them will definitely rule her out for many. She needs a trade, and quick. Train as a hairdresser or go and do a vocational course, am I the only one thinking that the travel/tourism course might have actually been the best option for her? She's 20, about to be encumbered with a child, she has no education, she has no skills or training, she is going to be looking at bare minimum wage jobs cleaning at best unless she skills up. I think you were both incredibly naive in having this child and not using protection, you may be ready but I don't think she is. You are going to be supporting the three of you for a long time to come.

Edited September 13, 2014 by acrosstheuniverse

[cm00]

I think a lot of people here are being really unnecessarily harsh to the poster, why shouldn't he keep posting on loveshack? It often helps to discuss things, helps clear your head and helps you see things more clearly. And his difficult situation is not over by a LONG shot, as I mentioned earlier. The problems are only just beginning now that you have a very young, pregnant girlfriend far away from home, with family drama and tensions. Again, I would be surprised if things run smoothly now. As this baby grows inside her she's likely even more to miss her parents and her family, however they've behaved towards her. She will want to share becoming a mother with her own mother, she will want the baby to have grandparents, she might want to go back and raise the child in Slovakia (even if England objectively is the best place to live, it's still not her home), if she's been emotionally damaged by her mother she might start to feel guilty for what she perceives herself as putting her mother through, she might want to be close to her father who she feels loved and supported by, etc. etc.

 

You've come here for advice but all you seem to be getting is weird posts from that Michaels guy talking about irrelevant stuff, and people slagging off your maturity. Many new fathers don't actually realise the severity of their situation until the baby is in their arms. And I don't think you're controlling or manipulating your girlfriend, unless I've missed anything. You are right to want the right relationship for yourself and to call things off if she isn't even going to be in the same country as you.

 

However: I do think you're not seeing things clearly, when you say things like 'it's just the mother who's the problem, in time she will move past this codependency and accept this'; if this dynamic is entrenched from the start of your girlfriend's life then both of them could find it incredibly difficult to move on. Her mother might play sweet now until she gets to see your girlfriend again, and then start up her games. Your girlfriend, as I already mentioned, probably has a strong bond with her mother, the person that created her, and this is going to hurt her even more when she becomes a mother herself.

 

Thank you, I thought the same about those posters.

 

She had an ultrasound scan done a few days ago, she couldn't stop looking at the photo and smiling at me, it made her so happy.

 

It was just last night her father called us and apologised for the mother and said that he sees a change in the mother now, although he agrees this will all take a lot of time, the mother hasn't accepted it yet but we all think in time she will. She is just having a very hard time letting go.

 

I understand about qualifications, but this is a good start. She already has a job, and these first qualifications will at least give some more job options. It's especially important for her, being slovakian, to able to prove that she has english at this level.

 

The main thing is that I already own my own house and I own it fully, no mortgage, that will save us hundreds of thousands of pounds over the next 40 years. In fact the average mortgage on a £220,000 house amounts to over £500,000 of debt that needs to be paid back. Many couples in their 50s and 60s are still paying off this huge debt. We won't have this debt. Nor will we ever have to rent, rent would have cost us at least £800 a month. Most of the younger generation is stuck renting or living with their parents due to the high cost of UK housing. Mortgages are extremely difficult to get, even if you do manage to get one, that's a debt you'll be paying for most of your life.

 

I do plan to get a second house in the future so I can rent one of the houses out. The rent will be enough to cover the entire mortgage on a second house. There's a lot of help from the government in the UK too, I've worked out that even if I was on a below average wage and my girlfriend doesn't work at all, we will have more than enough money to get by and save some money too.

 

One other thing, although it's not nice to talk about, I was born when my parents were 40 years old, they are 70 now. They've told me about their will and what I will receive from it. It's enough to buy an entire second house outright. Probably by time that happens we'll be talking about 3 houses. (I plan on purchasing houses to let out as a landlord in the future).

 

I would have preferred to wait a few more years at least before having a child, I didn't want to have one yet. I agree it would have been better. However now it has happened, I feel happy about it, and my girlfriend feels the same way.

Edited September 13, 2014 by cm00

[cm00]

Here's an update, i am not sure this post entirely applies to this forum any more. It might belong in a mental health forum or something considering the way her mother is behaving.

 

All is well between my girlfriend and I, we're well into our college courses and the tutors believe we could get A grades based on what they've seen so far. My girlfriend is actually one of the strongest in the class for English, that's what the tutor told her. Amazing since her native language is Slovakian.

 

Since she left, her mother is still trying to get her to go back to her. By which I mean force her and emotionally blackmail her into going back.

 

The screaming and abuse at the start on skype didn't work. It did however really stress my girlfriend out and that's not good for the baby. In fact my girlfriend has been heavily pressured and stressed by her mother for the entire pregnancy so far (14 weeks)

 

I already posted about how her mother tried to convince her that I was deleting her messages on Skype, but that backfired on her mother, and it made my girlfriend see that her mother has issues.

 

Now her mother stepped things up, now it became full on abuse. Her mother started with threats, threatening that the family is going to full apart if she doesn't come back. She threatened that she will divorce her dad if she doesn't come back. She screamed all of this in extremely nasty ways across Skype. Her mother doesn't care if she loses the baby, she never asks about it, all she does is non stop abuse her.

 

She told her "you're the only one who can save the family". That didn't work, divorce threats didn't work. Next she really stepped it up. Suicide threats, she said she was going to kill herself, she is still threatening this, come back or I will die, only you can stop this.

 

It won't work, to increase pressure, she started using her dad. She is saying her father is ill, and he could die tomorrow, so she must come back right now.

 

She has ordered the dad to tell my girlfriend that her mother tried to commit suicide. She also told my girlfriend herself that her father fell ill and was taking away in an ambulance to the emergency. (it's all bull****, her father is telling her secretly what the mother is up to).

 

She has been opening her mail (back statements) back in slovakia (illegal) looking for anything she can use to get her back. She also was looking through all of her documents, she found a contact for her place of work. Today she forced her father to call her boss and try to cause problems for her.

 

Her father can't take much more of it, but for some stupid reason he has to pretend he is on her side because if he doesn't she will make his life hell.

 

Her mother must have mental issues. The father is talking about getting her to a psychiatrist but she won't go. The mother is an abuser, she even abuses the husband. I think she could have borderline personality disorder.

 

She was trying to scare/force my girlfriend into going back. All of what the mother is doing has had the opposite effect. My girlfriend said this words "I fear my mother" she doesn't want to go back there even to visit now, she is too scared of her mother.