Wants me to love his daughter

[Smilecharmer]

Do you feel he is controlling in other ways? Is the wedding off then because you can't just turn on love for his daughter?

[nittygritty]

Well, isn't that why I asked YOU what YOUR definition of Love is? Because in your last post, you claim she is choosing to not love.....

 

There all different kinds of love. The healthy variety is usually preferred over the unhealthy kind.

[LuckyLady13]

Lacoqueta, I think it's awesome that you're able to look inside yourself and question if what you're doing/thinking/feeling is right or wrong and it's so obvious you care a lot about this kid or you wouldn't have put 2 seconds into this.

 

And you work with at risk kids all week too?

 

Some people have responded having strong emotions from having been the children in these situations and it scarred some deeply. And I know you've seen the horrible situations that happen to these poor kids at times. When I was only about 17-18 I also worked with at risk kids and couldn't believe how some of these kids were treated. It's so shocking and sad.

 

I'm seeing though how a few too many people were quick to say "don't marry him" and "break it off" and I can't help thinking this is exactly what we keep saying we don't want anymore. More divorce and separation and single parents and traumatized, uncared for kids.

 

Kids don't need 3 parents to love and adore them. I think you're pretty well grounded, Lacoqueta! You see the situation for what it is. This kid is not going to be neglected or abused and some people are acting as if that's the case here!

 

I come from a very abusive family. My parents lost custody of me countless times and their marriage was so absolutely toxic (mostly due to my mother) that looking back...if my parents divorced and someone just like you would've ended up my stepmother, my life would have been exponentially easier! I wouldn't have needed more friends than I can count to ground me and a bunch of therapy! I'm doing great now but I do look back once in a while wishing things weren't the way they were.

 

I'm finding some peoples reaction to you really overboard. My parents beat me, locked me in a room for 2 weeks to 2 months at a time and accused me of stealing their drugs and money when I was only about 10 years old (talk about terrifying). If I turned out alright, own a successful business today, have a ton of friends who treat me so well I still pinch myself some days to see if I'm dreaming and deal with people just great on a daily basis, a child with technically 3 caring parents is going to turn out just fine!

 

I wouldn't worry so much about what some people are saying here and it looks like you're grounded enough (seeing your responses) to know when people are making mountains out of molehills.

 

Also, my friends growing up (the few I managed from school) had step parents. Not ONE expected their step parent to love them like their bio parents and not ONE lost sleep over the idea. It was never an issue. They were happy as long as they weren't being treated badly or abused because their bio parents were both there. Just like the situation you have.

[nittygritty]

This could very well be the problem! Maybe I'm not clear on what "love" is. When I called my future sister in law (she's marrying my brother and is bringing in 2 daughters), she cracked up laughing and said "you so love that girl, it's in your actions".

 

So what part of the relationship with his daughter do you know that you don't "love" or want? Is it the obligation? The responsibility? The expectations? Your fiancé?

[Gaeta]

This could very well be the problem! Maybe I'm not clear on what "love" is. When I called my future sister in law (she's marrying my brother and is bringing in 2 daughters), she cracked up laughing and said "you so love that girl, it's in your actions".

 

More I think about it more it feels like a case of poor choice of words (on both parts) that lead to one big misunderstanding.

[nittygritty]

Well, isn't that why I asked YOU what YOUR definition of Love is? Because in your last post, you claim she is choosing to not love.....

 

Everybody has there own definition of what love is or feels like to them. The healthy variety is usually preferred over the unhealthy kind.

[MissBee]

I never said you can't love a child that isn't your own. I said I can only assume that I would love my bio child MORE. Yes, right now I don't have those love feelings yet but no where am I thinking that it will NEVER happen just because she's not mine.

 

I didn't mean to imply that you said it...other posters made those remarks and I was responding to their assertions.

 

Have you told your boyfriend the latter? That you don't love her now but it could happen? Maybe that is more reassuring, as based on the initial post I could see where he gathered you don't love her and never will.

 

If not, you should. Maybe for him that's what he needs to make the plunge. Although for me, if I were as concerned as him, early in dating I'd have a talk with my potential bf/gf on their opinions about step-parenting, loving non-biological kids etc. Just so that I'd have an idea of if we had similar views on it and how likely they were to be in accord with me on it. I wouldn't wait until after an engagement to figure this out if it's a dealbreaker.

 

 

From your own posts it seems like you're someone not naturally good with or fond of children, which isn't a crime. I was that way. I volunteered in the pediatrics section of a hospital in high school and when I would have to play with the kids I found it so awkward...however as I matured things change and I'm a lot more maternal and good with kids. Anyway, that aside, if that's not you it's just not but I do think he slacked off when getting to know you...as how did he not know this before? I can't imagine someone early on in dating disclosing to a parent that they're not particularly good with kids and that person if they want a potential SO to love their child just carry on without being concerned. I think since this is such a priority for him, he should have been more careful about who he dated and should have made dating women who love kids and were of the mind they'd love his a big preference...it only makes sense.

 

It's like dog lovers. I wouldn't be a good match for a man whose dog was like his child if it meant I had to love and treat the dog like my child. I could get used to a dog but I'm simply not a natural dog lover and if that is important to someone they should spell this out as a requirement in dating so that potential partners know and can eliminate themselves and those who feel as they do can step up. Even more so with kids.

Edited July 30, 2014 by MissBee

[MissBee]

This thread gave me another reason to date child-less women.

 

OP, youve gotten some good advice already. I wouldnt be all too thrilled about marrying a hypocrite whos seemingly trying to force to me love their kid when they werent able to do the same in the past for a partner's child.

This.

 

Why are people calling him a hypocrite?

 

He isn't forcing the OP to love his child.

 

He DID NOT marry this other woman. Could it be that perhaps why they broke up had to do with him realizing he didn't/couldn't love her child so walked away from the whole thing because he didn't feel right about being with her if he felt that way??? If that was the case that is sticking to your principles.

 

Assuming hypocrisy is jumping the gun. He wants to marry a woman who loves his child and could be of the mind that if he also didn't love a woman's child he wouldn't marry her...

 

The point isn't loving or not loving the child and being forced to...it's about marriage and it is understandable that the stakes are different when you're talking about marriage.Maybe he was fine with dating a woman and upon realizing he couldn't love her child decided he couldn't marry her...and if that is his requirement that FOR MARRIAGE you have to love the other's child, it's not hypocrisy.

[kaylan]

Yes!! This is the part that I can't get past!! If he knows what it's like to come in as a step parent and he admits he couldn't feel the same love for his step child as he does for his own child, how dare he expect the opposite of me??? Actually, he can expect whatever the heck he wants, how dare he look at me like I'm crazy??

I dont have kids, but I have pets. And my cat is very very much my baby, and Ive always seen him like a furry kid.

 

Now, if I were to date a woman seriously, would I expect her to care about my pets if we got serious (like moving in together or marriage)? Yes I would. I wouldnt expect her to love my pets like she does her own, but I expect her to care about them and be there for them when they may need her.

 

On the flip side, how would I feel about a partner's pets? Well, Ive gotten close a woman's pet before...and despite getting close, its not the same as being close to a pet youve raised and taken care of for their whole life.

 

Ive been around when an ex lost a pet, and it sucked, but I didnt have the same emotions she did. When I lose my cat one day, Ill prolly ball my fcking eyes out and barely function for a week, because Ive had him almost half of my short life. (Im 27 and hes 11). Would I expect my woman to react the same? No, but Id expect her to feel some sort of sadness and to support me.

 

Of course pets can never be the same thing as actual children. But my point is that the feelings you have for blood offspring or "offspring"(pets), will be much different from the feelings you have for non-blood offspring or "offspring". And Id reckon its much easier to get blood-like emotions for offspring that you've raised as your own from a young age.

 

Its hard to get those parental blood emotions for kids when both their parents have always been present. In which case I wouldnt really put myself in the position to be that sort of figure in their life. Its hard to foster a similarly loving bond when they already have a true mother and father figure in their life.

[littleplanet]

This was beautiful, positive, and very helpful! Thank you!!

 

 

You are quite welcome!

Children are the light of the world, you know.

 

(me mum taught me that)

 

Good luck!

Go easy....

be true.

[littleplanet]

Why are people calling him a hypocrite?

 

He isn't forcing the OP to love his child.

 

He DID NOT marry this other woman. Could it be that perhaps why they broke up had to do with him realizing he didn't/couldn't love her child so walked away from the whole thing because he didn't feel right about being with her if he felt that way??? If that was the case that is sticking to your principles.

 

Assuming hypocrisy is jumping the gun. He wants to marry a woman who loves his child and could be of the mind that if he also didn't love a woman's child he wouldn't marry her...

 

The point isn't loving or not loving the child and being forced to...it's about marriage and it is understandable that the stakes are different when you're talking about marriage.Maybe he was fine with dating a woman and upon realizing he couldn't love her child decided he couldn't marry her...and if that is his requirement that FOR MARRIAGE you have to love the other's child, it's not hypocrisy.

 

 

 

brilliant point, BEE.

 

Makes me wonder.......were there Steps back in this man's past?

But even if not......the caring and concern is normal enough.

I was a single dad for awhile......when said offspring was a young sprite.

I used to tell prospective partners to not bother mumming him too much - he already had a powerful one. But to just be his friend. He had many, many of those, and loved some to bits...but the final chapter was reserved forever and always, for the Big One.

Of course........marriage makes a difference.

[Quiet Storm]

People often assume that when a couple divorces, all will be well with the kids because they are loved. Many believe that as long as both parents continue to love the child, it doesn't matter that they live in separate residences. It's part of the broader fallacy "love will conquer all".

 

What people often do not consider, are the change in dynamics that occur when a significant other enters the picture. Simply being nice & going to games and plays won't prevent dysfunction.

 

I am a person that deeply believes that children do best in an intact family, in a household with their mother or father. The exception to this would be abusive, neglectful or hostile situations.

 

So if I found myself divorced, I would be very concerned about my children's future. I would feel that they were already at a disadvantage, simply because their parents live separately. I would think very carefully about my choices as an individual, to ensure that my decisions do not negatively impact my kids. It's not about "what is best for me" or "what is best for my relationship", but "what is best for the family".

 

I understand why the fiancé is reconsidering marriage. He wants a healthy situation for his child and OPs response is rather alarming to him. He wants a household filled with love. Not love that "might" grow. Not love that is conditionally based on the child's DNA. Not love that is biased or quantified. But unconditional & equal love for all.

 

Is that a realistic expectation? Probably not. But we all want the best for our kids. We want to provide an optimal environment for them. Not one that's just OK or livable.

 

The fiancé is mistaken if he believes that this can be resolved by demands & threats. We can't force love. We cannot make a person be interested in children. We cannot talk a person into feeling the unconditional and pure love that we as parents feel for our children.

 

If I were in this guy's situation, there would be no doubt in my mind that I had chosen the wrong person to be in a relationship with. I could not be with a person that was not 100% confident in their ability to love my child as their own.

 

I understand that the OPs feelings are valid & I respect her choice to be honest with her fiancé. I totally understand that she can't create feelings that aren't there, and that feelings of love can grow when nurtured over time.

 

However, my responsibility to my child would take priority over being patient & understanding with the fiancé. I am my children's advocate, and my choices & actions must reflect that. My commitment to the kids would come first.

 

I totally agree with the "package deal" line of thinking. His kid is part of him. If there is doubt about the love for either one of them, OP is not the woman for him. It would be a dealbreaker for many parents.

 

I am not saying people are wrong for feeling this way, or that people should automatically love any child. I'm also not saying that his expectation is entirely realistic (which he probably already realizes due to his own experience as a step parent). What I am saying is that his expectation of unconditional love, along with her uncertainty (whether or not OP will love this child, or if OP even knows what love is), makes the couple incompatible.

[TheBladeRunner]

Don't marry this clown! I am a single dad of one daughter and all I really want is a woman that my kid can look up to and someone willing to be just her friend! You don't need to love my daughter, just like her and be her friend, she has a mom already.

[Quiet Storm]

I dont have kids, but I have pets. And my cat is very very much my baby, and Ive always seen him like a furry kid.

 

Now, if I were to date a woman seriously, would I expect her to care about my pets if we got serious (like moving in together or marriage)? Yes I would. I wouldnt expect her to love my pets like she does her own, but I expect her to care about them and be there for them when they may need her.

 

On the flip side, how would I feel about a partner's pets? Well, Ive gotten close a woman's pet before...and despite getting close, its not the same as being close to a pet youve raised and taken care of for their whole life.

 

Ive been around when an ex lost a pet, and it sucked, but I didnt have the same emotions she did. When I lose my cat one day, Ill prolly ball my fcking eyes out and barely function for a week, because Ive had him almost half of my short life. (Im 27 and hes 11). Would I expect my woman to react the same? No, but Id expect her to feel some sort of sadness and to support me.

 

Of course pets can never be the same thing as actual children. But my point is that the feelings you have for blood offspring or "offspring"(pets), will be much different from the feelings you have for non-blood offspring or "offspring". And Id reckon its much easier to get blood-like emotions for offspring that you've raised as your own from a young age.

 

Its hard to get those parental blood emotions for kids when both their parents have always been present. In which case I wouldnt really put myself in the position to be that sort of figure in their life. Its hard to foster a similarly loving bond when they already have a true mother and father figure in their life.

 

 

I am an animal lover myself, so I do understand that animals are part of the family & are loved like children.

 

What is different for me though, is knowing that a child's environment, experiences and family dynamic will have a significant impact on that child's future.

 

You are correct, our feelings may not be the same for another person's pet or child. But my focus isn't on the adults feelings and their capacity or ability to love. Instead, its about the impact those feelings or lack of feelings will have on the child (or pet).

 

Pets are here with us for a short time & are always in our care, custody or control. Our goal isn't to prepare our pets for the real world. There is no need for them to function in society on their own.

 

Kids grow up and move out. If they are insecure, resentful or angry, it will affect their entire adult life. Which will affect their future children's life, etc. etc.. Our upbringing- from the coping skills we learn, to the relationships that are modeled for us, to the dysfunctional dance of our families, to how love is perceived & expressed- all of that has a huge impact on what kind of people we will grow up to be.

[Eivuwan]

Honestly, both sides have a point. Would there be serious harm done to the child if the OP doesn't care/love her fiance's daughter the same way she would love her own? Probably not. Many children grew up just fine in far worse situations. Compared to what I grew up with this is nothing. Actually, this child's situation sounds like heaven compared to what I grew up with so I don't get what the big deal is. The OP is already doing a good job.

 

However, some people want more for their children and may have an unrealistic standard. That is ok too, but that just means they will take longer to find a partner who can fit into their life that well. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

I do wish that people would not be so quick to suggest that they are incompatible or that they should break up. It seems like this is one heated discussion that did not go well. I would talk about this issue again in a calmer fashion without threats, demands, or arguing about who is right. Like Gaeta was saying, it seems like a misunderstanding + bad communication. The fiance probably overreacted and said some stupid things that he may or may not really mean. We'll see.

[preraph]

It's entirely possible that he is projecting on to you issues he had with his ex-wife about parenting. It's also possible he's trying to get you to make up for his parenting deficit by having you fill in for him to alleviate his guilt and not lose joint custody. He and her bio mom are the parents here who have the real responsibility to show interest in her activities and get her to them, and whatever you do should be considered a bonus.

[lacoqueta]

Why are people calling him a hypocrite?

 

He isn't forcing the OP to love his child.

 

He DID NOT marry this other woman. Could it be that perhaps why they broke up had to do with him realizing he didn't/couldn't love her child so walked away from the whole thing because he didn't feel right about being with her if he felt that way??? If that was the case that is sticking to your principles.

 

Assuming hypocrisy is jumping the gun. He wants to marry a woman who loves his child and could be of the mind that if he also didn't love a woman's child he wouldn't marry her...

 

The point isn't loving or not loving the child and being forced to...it's about marriage and it is understandable that the stakes are different when you're talking about marriage.Maybe he was fine with dating a woman and upon realizing he couldn't love her child decided he couldn't marry her...and if that is his requirement that FOR MARRIAGE you have to love the other's child, it's not hypocrisy.

 

He's being called a hypocrite because his break up had zero to do with her child. It was over her substance abuse. Obviously he needed to be out of that situation but he has said to me that he's glad I didn't have a child because he doesn't think he could fully embrace them as his own. So you can't "deal" with that but expect your significant other to? It's ok if that's a requirement for him, but why is this all of a sudden a problem? He had no complaints before. He only praised me. Now because it was over what I said, he needs to rethink things??

[littleplanet]

Ah, that word... Love. Would you mind defining it for us, precisely please? But PRECISELY.

 

 

Ah, love. Love.

 

(ahem) Let me count the ways.....

 

When you love a kid, they light up your life.

You worry about them.

You fuss over them.

You get pissed off at them, they go to their room -

and after a 20-minute cool-down, you go knock on the door, beg respectful permission to enter, sit on the edge of the bed and have a chat.

And let them know that it matters that they care what you think of them.

 

When you love a kid, you go that extra distance in a thousand thousand ways....even when you're exhausted, even when you're not in the mood, even when you're grinding molars.

You give them enough information to let them know when they're pushing buttons.

You crack jokes for giggle fits.

You remind yourself that that sound.....is a thermometer that takes a certain temperature that lets you know they're all right. Right where they need to be all right the most.

 

When you love a kid you let them go, you give them space, you make room for their happiness without trying to own it, or even take credit for it.

You listen........with all kinds of ears.

You look for signs, with all kinds of eyes.

You dedicate yourself to their freedom, independence, growth in all ways.

You create the warmest space they can relax in.

 

You talk.

and talk

and talk.

(silence is adverse to child-confidence)

Unless they're busy, distracted, daydreaming, pooped.

 

You shower them with stories.

Songs.

(Yeah, well I'm lucky. I can do that rather well!)

 

When you love a kid, one-half of you is relaxed, comfortable, confident, serene.

The other half:

..........is ever watchful, wound like a watch-spring, ready to do every single exact thing that is necessary to their well-being.

And you do all this quite prepared to often enough get little thanks, acknowledgement, or gratitude back.

They're a kid. That's how they do it.

Your greatest reward, is their happiness.

[Thegreatestthing]

Saying you can't love a child is the weirdest coldest thing I've heard,what makes her so unloveable? I hope he finds someone who understands this little person is a part of him,That girl is a part of him and the most central thing in his life besides yourself,you can never expect him to love anyone that doesn't love her.

What a sad story.

[iiiii]

I completely sympathise with the OP.

 

I might love my partner, but I don't necessarily automatically also love every member of his family (no matter how old they are).

 

Because I love him, I do the utmost to care for his family, and find things to appreciate and admire in them.

 

If that's not enough for him, then we're a mismatch. And that wouldn't mean that either of us are wrong, it just means that we just want different things.

 

Some single parents want a partner who is also prepared to be a fully committed parent to their child. Others feel that the child already has two parents, and just need their partner to treat their child with attention, respect and care - if genuine love grows, it's a bonus.

 

Neither is wrong, just different.

[isisisweeping]

I am glad my ex is with someone who loves our child very much.

 

 

I couldn't be with someone who didn't love her.

 

 

But I can love children I did not bear.

 

 

I do wonder if OP in speculation is overthinking it, though I cannot deign to say what she feels.

Even loving a child isn't constant happiness with them or eagerness for every responsibility.

[msmolecule]

Two of the most important lessons any parent can teach a child are:

 

1) How to cope with life situations that don't seem fair, and...

 

2) How to navigate less than ideal interpersonal relationships.

 

What is important is that the child's parents love the child unconditionally. It is also important for this father to model unconditional love so that his child has a clear blueprint for the future. Giving his fiance an ultimatum and holding their marriage hostage over something that should have been discussed and negotiated very early in the relationship is not the example he should be setting for his daughter.

 

This man has a decision to make, not his soon to be wife. HE needs to decide whether or not he is willing to allow the relationship between his fiance and his daughter grow naturally, honestly and without added hostility from him....or if he is going to destroy the bond that has already formed (and will continue to form) because it is not progressing with the speed or in the shape that he would like.

 

This woman has been an integral part of the child's life for a significant amount of time. How will he explain to his child why his fiance has suddenly disappeared from her life? By telling the child that his fiance didn't love her enough? What effect do you suppose that will have?

Edited July 31, 2014 by msmolecule

[MissBee]

I completely sympathise with the OP.

 

I might love my partner, but I don't necessarily automatically also love every member of his family (no matter how old they are).

 

Because I love him, I do the utmost to care for his family, and find things to appreciate and admire in them.

 

If that's not enough for him, then we're a mismatch. And that wouldn't mean that either of us are wrong, it just means that we just want different things.

 

Some single parents want a partner who is also prepared to be a fully committed parent to their child. Others feel that the child already has two parents, and just need their partner to treat their child with attention, respect and care - if genuine love grows, it's a bonus.

 

Neither is wrong, just different.

 

I agree.

 

I don't think the OP is wrong for her feelings neither is he. We all have our priorities and what we need from a relationship.

 

My suggestion is that perhaps if you (lacoqueta) feel as though he is a hypocrite or it isn't really about loving his daughter or there is a misunderstanding or you want to work through things, get some premarital counseling and work this out now and find out if you can move beyond it in a way that honors you both and his child or not...

 

Better now than marry and this same issue resurfaces.

[MissBee]

Two of the most important lessons any parent can teach a child are:

 

1) How to cope with life situations that don't seem fair, and...

 

2) How to navigate less than ideal interpersonal relationships.

 

What is important is that the child's parents love the child unconditionally. It is also important for this father to model unconditional love so that his child has a clear blueprint for the future. Giving his fiance an ultimatum and holding their marriage hostage over something that should have been discussed and negotiated very early in the relationship is not the example he should be setting for his daughter.

 

This man has a decision to make, not his soon to be wife. HE needs to decide whether or not he is willing to allow the relationship between his fiance and his daughter grow naturally, honestly and without added hostility from him....or if he is going to destroy the bond that has already formed (and will continue to form) because it is not progressing with the speed or in the shape that he would like.

 

This woman has been an integral part of the child's life for a significant amount of time. How will he explain to his child why his fiance has suddenly disappeared from her life? By telling the child that his fiance didn't love her enough? What effect do you suppose that will have?

 

I'm sure he doesn't have to tell her that... further the OP doesn't explain her position as being "integral".

 

If he divorced her mom and they found a way to tell her and move on from it I'm sure he can find a way to explain why he and the OP are no longer together should it come to that.

 

The OP has expressed beginning to feel resentful of the little girl because of her father's desires and there isn't any guarantee that she will indeed grow to love the little girl....I can imagine if they separate and he finds a woman whose love for his child is palpable it would be a better situation for all than if he and the OP marry and she never does end up loving her or begins to resent her for other things, which seems an easier thing to do since she isn't her child and she doesn't love her.

 

All that to say that he can choose to break it off with the OP without it being this dramatic case of it will tear the child's world apart. The OP herself has explained that she gets on better with needier kids and her fiance's child is independent and not that needy so she seems a bit confused about her role in the child's life beyond certain casual things....given that I would not describe the relationship as "integral." She of course may be curious about what happened and may even miss her, but doesn't seem like the OP or the girl are emotionally attached to each other in a way that would be devastating if the relationship ends.

[Grumpybutfun]

I agree that it is a control issue but it sounds like she is the one with control issues. Love is a choice. For whatever reason, she is choosing not to love.

 

She loves this child. It is evident in her posts. It isn't always self evident to people when they are new to something. Read the entire thread. She just finds it odd that her fiancé gave her an ultimatum and I do too because it points to bigger control issues. This is definitely about control and micromanagement. She is right to be concerned.

OP, what are his real fears here?

In support,

G

Edited July 31, 2014 by Grumpybutfun