Badsingularity Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 then I remind myself that not every man is "traditionally masculine" and shouldn't force themselves to be if it's a completely contradiction to who they're supposed to be. t! Weather you want to describe these traits as masculine, feminine, or neither the vast majority of women seem to be attracted to men, with confidence, inner strength, and assertiveness at least sexually. The confusion comes in at the fact that many of these same women are logically attracted to men lacking those traits and who are sweet, nice, and passive and do everything they want. When they form relationships with these men who their logic was telling them is perfect. The relationship usually ends up very confused and unhappy, because she does not know why she does not want to have sex with him and neither does he and the resentment, frustration, and confusion runs wild. If a beta guy is on here complaining that he can't attract women I would encourage him to change and develope the traits I mentioned above. It would help him with everything in life. 1
ThaWholigan Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Weather you want to describe these traits as masculine, feminine, or neither the vast majority of women seem to be attracted to men, with confidence, inner strength, and assertiveness at least sexually. I think we can safely agree 100% on that one . The confusion comes in at the fact that many of these same women are logically attracted to men lacking those traits and who are sweet, nice, and passive and do everything they want. When they form relationships with these men who their logic was telling them is perfect. The relationship usually ends up very confused and unhappy, because she does not know why she does not want to have sex with him and neither does he and the resentment, frustration, and confusion runs wild. Which basically emphasizes my original point - she is repressing what she really wants because of what she thinks she's supposed to like, much like the man who is repressing who he is because of who he thinks he's supposed to be. Simultaneously, some of these men end up going the other way and literally ceding any kind of personality or masculine energy that they possess at all. That is just as dangerous as repressing any other intrinsic part of you without even exploring adequate channels. If a beta guy is on here complaining that he can't attract women I would encourage him to change and develope the traits I mentioned above. It would help him with everything in life. I would be backing you up - but I wouldn't necessarily frame those things in the context of traditional masculinity. Being confident, assertive and having inner strength are great attributes to have for anybody. Both masculine and feminine encompass those. It's important however to hone in on what your natural traits actually are. There are positive and negative manifestations of those traits. Perhaps, if I were mentoring a man and he wanted to know how to be more attractive to women, I would encourage him to develop masculine traits that further complement his core character. There are latent characteristics within us that we very rarely call upon until moments of duress or other miscellaneous moments that happen unexpectedly. I'd imagine this is the same for everybody. Finding those traits within and bringing them to the fore - and finding positive ways to manifest that energy - should be the ideal course of action IMO. 1
Badsingularity Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 I would be backing you up - but I wouldn't necessarily frame those things in the context of traditional masculinity. Being confident, assertive and having inner strength are great attributes to have for anybody. Both masculine and feminine encompass those. It's important however to hone in on what your natural traits actually are. There are positive and negative manifestations of those traits. I agree with much of what you're saying. I just have a different view on what traits are masculine and feminine. Testosterone can come in to play with some of them as a bolstering mechanism. Maybe it's not the traits that are masculine or feminine themselves, but at what levels those traits exist or are exhibited in individuals. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Feminism bears part of the blame. In previous eras, men had to go out and make a living, support a family, and take control because women weren't allowed to do it. So, even men who might've been naturally inclined to be more "beta" simply couldn't be because society wouldn't let them. Now that women have equal rights and can go out into the workforce and have bank accounts and credit cards and buy property, men who are more inclined to be "beta" can just be "beta." I also think that there is less pressure nowadays for men to be men, which I think is really unfortunate. (I also think there is less pressure for women to be women, which is equally unfortunate.) We have different genders; we should be allowed to be different. But people don't seem to want that anymore. I also hear you on the lack of basic "male" abilities. I'm amazed at how helpless a lot of young men seem when it comes to basic repairs. I grew up with a father and brother who fixed everything, rebuilt cars, and remodeled the kitchens and bathrooms for fun. Maybe because it's become more common to just call someone in to fix it? I think maybe men of past eras would have felt a blow to their masculinity if they had to call someone in to fix the refrigerator. My brother built a deck on his house a few years ago, and I asked him how he knew how to do it and he looked at me like I was an idiot. He had never built a deck before; he just figured it out. Or maybe because in the days of yore before computers and video games doing things like that were nice ways for fathers and sons to bond together, and people don't do that anymore? I also think that, for whatever reason, jobs like electricians and plumbers are viewed as lower than sitting at a desk, when the reality is that you can make great money doing those jobs and they require a lot of brains. I feel like a lot of young men just don't want to get dirty. I don't know. On the one hand, in my neighborhood it's against the bylaws to change your own oil or do any work on your car. You also have to get all kinds of permits and things signed to build a deck or put a fence in, etc. It's easier, and legal to hire someone over doing something yourself. And I don't think it's bad. Specialization and trade makes us all better off. There's no shame in hiring a plumber or a guy to build your deck or change your oil. You wouldn't perform surgery on yourself, so why do something else that you're not good at? I'm ok with the idea that men can be men and women can be women. But I think we're including too much unrelated stuff in this issue.
thefooloftheyear Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) I don't know. On the one hand, in my neighborhood it's against the bylaws to change your own oil or do any work on your car. You also have to get all kinds of permits and things signed to build a deck or put a fence in, etc. It's easier, and legal to hire someone over doing something yourself. And I don't think it's bad. Specialization and trade makes us all better off. There's no shame in hiring a plumber or a guy to build your deck or change your oil. You wouldn't perform surgery on yourself, so why do something else that you're not good at? I'm ok with the idea that men can be men and women can be women. But I think we're including too much unrelated stuff in this issue. No one is kicking anyone's door in for doing repairs and maintenance and minor home repairs on their own stuff..There isnt a shred of proof of any of that..Id lay a thousand dollars right now that if you changed your own oil and properly disposed of the used oil at the local recycling center or repair shop, that no one would ever say a word to you...I dont care what the law states.. But thats not the point thats being made here.... Of course there is nothing wrong with hiring someone...But that wasn't how most guys of previous generations did things....They may not have been specialists, but most of us could get by doing stuff ourselves..And no state municipality is going to bother a homeowner that is working on his own home...Nowhere..If they were that austere, places like Lowe's and Home Depot wouldnt even exist... Every one of my male relatives/friends in my age group are handy...Some work blue collar jobs and some white...Some more than others, but we all get by...Most of the reason for this is that we all were homeowners and needed to know some of this stuff, for one, because we like to do stuff with our hands and because its just too expensive to hire someone for every little task...especially when you are young and just starting out.. So then the question is.....Are all the younger guys not doing this stuff now because they are scared of the law or are successful homeowners and have great financial independence therefore have no issue supporting the local economy by hiring a plumber and paying him 500 bucks to come out and install a bathroom faucet?.. No cookie for the correct answer..... TFY Edited July 1, 2014 by thefooloftheyear
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 No one is kicking anyone's door in for doing repairs and maintenance and minor home repairs on their own stuff..There isnt a shred of proof of any of that..Id lay a thousand dollars right now that if you changed your own oil and properly disposed of the used oil at the local recycling center or repair shop, that no one would ever say a word to you...I dont care what the law states.. But thats not the point thats being made here.... Of course there is nothing wrong with hiring someone...But that wasn't how most guys of previous generations did things....They may not have been specialists, but most of us could get by doing stuff ourselves..And no state municipality is going to bother a homeowner that is working on his own home...Nowhere..If they were that austere, places like Lowe's and Home Depot wouldnt even exist... Every one of my male relatives/friends in my age group are handy...Some work blue collar jobs and some white...Some more than others, but we all get by...Most of the reason for this is that we all were homeowners and needed to know some of this stuff, for one, because we like to do stuff with our hands and because its just too expensive to hire someone for every little task...especially when you are young and just starting out.. So then the question is.....Are all the younger guys not doing this stuff now because they are scared of the law or are successful homeowners and have great financial independence therefore have no issue supporting the local economy by hiring a plumber and paying him 500 bucks to come out and install a bathroom faucet?.. No cookie for the correct answer..... TFY We got fined for putting our trash out at 4:15, it's not supposed to go out until 5 pm. Home owners associations are no laughing matter. Even more serious than municipal authorities I'd say. Just to put a storm door on, we had to have both neighbors sign the permit and the HOA board had to sign it. It's not a matter of just "doing it" anymore. Anyway, I wouldn't say fear of the law causes people to not do things on their own. Sometimes, yes. But overall I think people just value their leisure time more than they used to. I'll pay for an oil change because I just don't feel like doing it myself. Does that make me less manly? I don't know. I feel like there's more to it than that. I still like sports and lifting weights. I'll stick take care of bugs in the house or change the lightbulbs or other simple things. Hopefully that's enough to keep my man card.... 1
thefooloftheyear Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 We got fined for putting our trash out at 4:15, it's not supposed to go out until 5 pm. Home owners associations are no laughing matter. Even more serious than municipal authorities I'd say. Just to put a storm door on, we had to have both neighbors sign the permit and the HOA board had to sign it. It's not a matter of just "doing it" anymore. Anyway, I wouldn't say fear of the law causes people to not do things on their own. Sometimes, yes. But overall I think people just value their leisure time more than they used to. I'll pay for an oil change because I just don't feel like doing it myself. Does that make me less manly? I don't know. I feel like there's more to it than that. I still like sports and lifting weights. I'll stick take care of bugs in the house or change the lightbulbs or other simple things. Hopefully that's enough to keep my man card.... Ill have to agree on the HOA...yes, some of those things can be a pain in the ass..I suppose I should have qualified my response by stating "in a typical single family home"....There I don't think you would run afoul... Anyway, dont get me wrong...I dont criticise anyone for doing things how they see fit...Its just noteworthy that no(or prohibitively fewer) younger guys want any part of this stuff nowadays, while that really wasnt the case in previous generations... I cant believe its because they can afford it, because id say as 40 somethings we did better than the 20 somethings today when we were their age...So its not that...If I buy the theory that "they value their free time" more...well....you still have to pay for services if you cant/wont do it... So where does the money come to pay for this stuff?? Their parents or girlfriends.???? TFY
Michelle ma Belle Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 It seems more and more young males, mostly from the millenials, are becoming increasingly beta and clingy towards women. I keep seeing tons of posts in the breakup forum "she left me and I can't get on with my life" or "I've lost all motivation." Even worse "can I get her back?" Don't get me wrong, breakups suck and are hard when you love someone. But guys need to stop giving up their man cards to women and move on and live their life like alpha males. That doesn't mean to be a jerk, control freak, or arrogant. It means to be a leader, be confident, and have your own direction in life and not be influenced by women so easily. A woman should add to your life and be someone who you can share it with. Their job isn't to make YOU happy. Amen but this can and should go BOTH ways. I think WOMEN have to stop acting so helpless and needy and naive. I'm also amazed at how many wrap themselves so tightly around their partners that they no longer have an identity of their own. Hopefully being on here and getting some honest feedback and advice will help them both become stronger and more confident men and women. 1
Monm82 Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 I agree with the posters saying it's nothing new. Just more visble via social media. 1
Got it Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Knowledge of computers is a thing that both genders can do equally well....And its a glut of people that do it..thats why my computer guy is nearly broke...he'd be better off a plumber or electrician.. You can say that all you want about a typical blue collar iron worker, diesel truck mechanic, or heavy equipment operator, but Id gladly hire a woman here if she wanted the job and could actually physically do the job as good as a man...But most guys I hire nowadays are barely physically strong enough to do this work...so?? lets face it, when was the last time you saw an accomplished female truck mechanic, tree worker, iron worker, or plumber?? You can say it doesnt define a man, but Its male dominated work...And they(today's men) want no part of it...Despite the fact that these jobs generally pay more than many white collar jobs and the future looks like its going to be bright for the few that do...Supply vs demand... 30 years ago(after the birth of modern feminism and women's lib, btw), you rarely saw a woman drive if they were together(man/woman)...I guess it just seemed like the "male" thing to do.??..Not some macho crap...Certainly not everyone was an Archie Bunker type..*shrug* So what changed?? ..Whats causing guys to be less "traditional male"...(for lack of a better phrase)? TFY The reason why this has been male dominated is because it has been assumed to be male jobs. If you look at WWII women did fill these spots but when the men came back from war the women lost these jobs and had to go back to female assigned roles. I think you are assuming that there was some defined decision by women to take or not take these jobs but that is not the case. It has been assumed to be male. Just like decades early women were not expected to be in many other fields, medical, law, etc. and there was propaganda out that tried to say scientifically women's brains were different, not capable, etc. Same communications and misinformation about blacks, etc. You are assuming there is some valid rhyme and reason for these things and I beg to differ. It has been assumed just like it was assumed that women went into nursing instead of being a doctor because of it being a "lesser" secondary position. It has nothing to do with ability. In regards to women in these fields, it may be your specific area but I am in a very cosmopolitan area and we had a female arborist come out as well as a plumber at one point. Are there some jobs that due to physical capability weed out a large number of men and women, sure. Look at professional football. That is arguably male dominated. Does it mean that no woman could do it? No. but it would be geared to the male sex. But the majority of jobs are not, or should not be, gender based. They are just assumed to be because of history but no scientific data supporting it. And again, you do not see many in the blue collar positions because it has not only not been stressed to rising generations it has been poo pooed for decades now. Being a plumber has not been an applauded position to have for a while now. While it is necessary the rise of white collar positions, especially those in technology has been a larger area of interest. I am in the food/hospitality industry and it is very interesting to see the rise of employees and those that move into executive positions. Women's reproductive years takes a major hit to their livelihood and ability to advance and it is very difficult to get back on track on their original trajectory. I will say it is one of the few industries that an advance degree, or any degree, is not necessarily needed and there is a lot of money in the industry. You see a large number of people starting off in the stores, blue collar, and make their way to high level positions. I will argue there is a lack of polish and advanced thinking though as a result (in many situations). It is a market that has been primarily male dominated once you get to mid management and higher. 2
Got it Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Feminism bears part of the blame. In previous eras, men had to go out and make a living, support a family, and take control because women weren't allowed to do it. So, even men who might've been naturally inclined to be more "beta" simply couldn't be because society wouldn't let them. Now that women have equal rights and can go out into the workforce and have bank accounts and credit cards and buy property, men who are more inclined to be "beta" can just be "beta." I also think that there is less pressure nowadays for men to be men, which I think is really unfortunate. (I also think there is less pressure for women to be women, which is equally unfortunate.) We have different genders; we should be allowed to be different. But people don't seem to want that anymore. I also hear you on the lack of basic "male" abilities. I'm amazed at how helpless a lot of young men seem when it comes to basic repairs. I grew up with a father and brother who fixed everything, rebuilt cars, and remodeled the kitchens and bathrooms for fun. Maybe because it's become more common to just call someone in to fix it? I think maybe men of past eras would have felt a blow to their masculinity if they had to call someone in to fix the refrigerator. My brother built a deck on his house a few years ago, and I asked him how he knew how to do it and he looked at me like I was an idiot. He had never built a deck before; he just figured it out. Or maybe because in the days of yore before computers and video games doing things like that were nice ways for fathers and sons to bond together, and people don't do that anymore? I also think that, for whatever reason, jobs like electricians and plumbers are viewed as lower than sitting at a desk, when the reality is that you can make great money doing those jobs and they require a lot of brains. I feel like a lot of young men just don't want to get dirty. I will say that those lamenting these younger males are in the age bracket that they are raising them. So I would argue, what is different and why are you raising your sons to be "less" masculine? 1
Got it Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Weather you want to describe these traits as masculine, feminine, or neither the vast majority of women seem to be attracted to men, with confidence, inner strength, and assertiveness at least sexually. The confusion comes in at the fact that many of these same women are logically attracted to men lacking those traits and who are sweet, nice, and passive and do everything they want. When they form relationships with these men who their logic was telling them is perfect. The relationship usually ends up very confused and unhappy, because she does not know why she does not want to have sex with him and neither does he and the resentment, frustration, and confusion runs wild. If a beta guy is on here complaining that he can't attract women I would encourage him to change and develope the traits I mentioned above. It would help him with everything in life. An interesting study done a few years back, they found that women who are on the Pill, do not smell testorone in the same manner and actually go for the men who seemed to be more nurturing, etc. than the males described above. Here is an easy article on it: Dr. Laura Berman: The Birth Control Pill Might Impact Your Choice of Mate - Sexual Health Center - EverydayHealth.com
thefooloftheyear Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) The reason why this has been male dominated is because it has been assumed to be male jobs. If you look at WWII women did fill these spots but when the men came back from war the women lost these jobs and had to go back to female assigned roles. I think you are assuming that there was some defined decision by women to take or not take these jobs but that is not the case. It has been assumed to be male. Just like decades early women were not expected to be in many other fields, medical, law, etc. and there was propaganda out that tried to say scientifically women's brains were different, not capable, etc. Same communications and misinformation about blacks, etc. You are assuming there is some valid rhyme and reason for these things and I beg to differ. It has been assumed just like it was assumed that women went into nursing instead of being a doctor because of it being a "lesser" secondary position. It has nothing to do with ability. In regards to women in these fields, it may be your specific area but I am in a very cosmopolitan area and we had a female arborist come out as well as a plumber at one point. Are there some jobs that due to physical capability weed out a large number of men and women, sure. Look at professional football. That is arguably male dominated. Does it mean that no woman could do it? No. but it would be geared to the male sex. But the majority of jobs are not, or should not be, gender based. They are just assumed to be because of history but no scientific data supporting it. And again, you do not see many in the blue collar positions because it has not only not been stressed to rising generations it has been poo pooed for decades now. Being a plumber has not been an applauded position to have for a while now. While it is necessary the rise of white collar positions, especially those in technology has been a larger area of interest. I am in the food/hospitality industry and it is very interesting to see the rise of employees and those that move into executive positions. Women's reproductive years takes a major hit to their livelihood and ability to advance and it is very difficult to get back on track on their original trajectory. I will say it is one of the few industries that an advance degree, or any degree, is not necessarily needed and there is a lot of money in the industry. You see a large number of people starting off in the stores, blue collar, and make their way to high level positions. I will argue there is a lack of polish and advanced thinking though as a result (in many situations). It is a market that has been primarily male dominated once you get to mid management and higher. If thats the case, then why cant I find a woman to work for me?...If she can weld and lift 200 lb truck tires around in 95 degree heat, ill give her $40/hr to start....Heck it a lot more than Wal Mart pays.. Any takers?? Cmon...Im buried with work and REALLY busy... Lets stop the thinking that we are all the same(men and women)....We arent...I think thats the root cause of the problem..,, I live in the most cosmopolitan are in the Country...Or at least close to it.. Im on the front lines as an employer for almost 30 years now..Younger guys no longer want to do this type of stuff anymore, because for a box of chocolate on Valentine's Day and a few ILY's they can get some naive woman to carry their sorry asses...Then they'll sit around and complain that no one will hire them with their Business Admin degree that everyone and their brother has..Its pretty pathetic if you ask me,, BTW, I just texted my cousin...His plumbing and heating business grossed 7.5 mil last year...Not too shabby.. TFY Edited July 1, 2014 by thefooloftheyear
Got it Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 If thats the case, then why cant I find a woman to work for me?...If she can weld and lift 200 lb truck tires around in 95 degree heat, ill give her $40/hr to start....Heck it a lot more than Wal Mart pays.. Any takers?? Cmon...Im buried with work and REALLY busy... Lets stop the thinking that we are all the same(men and women)....We arent...I think thats the root cause of the problem..,, I live in the most cosmopolitan are in the Country...Or at least close to it.. Im on the front lines as an employer for almost 30 years now..Younger guys no longer want to do this type of stuff anymore, because for a box of chocolate on Valentine's Day and a few ILY's they can get some naive woman to carry their sorry asses...Then they'll sit around and complain that no one will hire them with their Business Admin degree that everyone and their brother has..Its pretty pathetic if you ask me,, BTW, I just texted my cousin...His plumbing and heating business grossed 7.5 mil last year...Not too shabby.. TFY Are you purposely trying to be asinine or is it just my lucky day? I believe I addressed your first concern. Are you assuming that women can only work at Walmart? 40.00 an hour is only 43,200. That is just above entry level for an office position. Why would someone want to deal with the physical demands and bad working conditions of your employment and not take a position in an office?
Emilia Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Are you purposely trying to be asinine or is it just my lucky day? You are wasting your time....
thefooloftheyear Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Are you purposely trying to be asinine or is it just my lucky day? I believe I addressed your first concern. Are you assuming that women can only work at Walmart? 40.00 an hour is only 43,200. That is just above entry level for an office position. Why would someone want to deal with the physical demands and bad working conditions of your employment and not take a position in an office? I think you need to go back to school... 40/hr...multiplied by 40/hr work week is 1600....times 52=$$83,200... Add in O/T and everyone makes more than 100K Still want that entry level Dilbert job??? And I am a the dope?? TFY
carhill Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 One thing I have noted, both as an employer and helping friends with employee issues in the blue collar industry/trades, is that the focus and demeanor of the younger males has changed from the older generations, even from when we were that age, mainly in the area of workplace distraction and sick days. Overwhelmingly, my biggest issues have been young men taking sick days off to do stuff with the girlfriends/wives they spend their work hours talking to on their earbuds and texting while they're on the clock. Short of firing them and/or blowing up their phones, it's been hard to find young men with the job focus and imperviousness to pain that was instilled in us. That said, I'm not quite positive of the connection between 'manly' work and being a dominant male in relationships. I noted this most markedly growing up, having a father who knew little to nothing of 'manly' work, being a CPA and pushing paper all day, and paying a gardener and mechanic and plumber and etc., etc and knowing absolutely zero about such matters, and yet being the clear head of the household and dominant male, and that was with a pretty strong-willed wife, or bitch on wheels as my exW often alluded to her as. I personally see, and have seen in my own life, very little correlation between 'manly' stuff and being a dominant man in a relationship. Anecdotes fly all over the place, from guys who are brutal at work but dominated at home to the complete reverse, being a beta out in the world but ruling the house with an iron fist. Are younger men becoming more uniform in this regard and more pronounced 'betas'? IDK. Regarding pay rates, that varies by demographic. Skilled mechanics and machinists around here, and haven't seen a female one yet, make around 20-25 per hour plus benefits. In another, higher cost of living area, or an area with great demand, like in the Gulf states oil industry or up in Canada/Alaska, pay rates for the same work are higher. Still, it's increasingly more difficult to find those head-down work-all-day play after 5 skilled labor people. We old farts are slowing down and the young guys are more interested in doing other things, including while on the clock. Does that translate to relationships? YMMV.
clia Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 I will say that those lamenting these younger males are in the age bracket that they are raising them. So I would argue, what is different and why are you raising your sons to be "less" masculine? It's a good question for people who are raising sons. I'm not one of them. But there could be a lot of factors that may play into why sons are being raised to be "less" masculine -- societal factors pushing toward gender neutrality and away from "let boys be boys", HOA rules and regulations as 49 pointed out, general societal disparagement of blue collar/manual labor jobs as TFY pointed out, feminism, helicopter parents in general, parents allowing their kids to decide what they are allowed to do rather than vice versa, the pervasive entitlement mentality, the decreasing number of two parent homes, situations where boys have no male role model, out of control focus by teens (which is allowed by parents) on technology including video games, porn and texting in lieu of more productive activities, general laziness, etc., etc., etc. And I'm sure I've missed about a hundred other different things that might be contributing.
Bruce Leigh Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Why would someone want to deal with the physical demands and bad working conditions of your employment and not take a position in an office? Ha ha, i am nearly 39, as a man who worked in an office years ago, hated it, much rather prefer a job that requires some physical effort and helps me stay healthier and fitter. Even if it pays less. 2
ThaWholigan Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Interestingly, my mother has been actively discouraging me from taking physical jobs when I have said I can/will do them . Even bar work she wasn't happy with. Her excuse was that because I'm mainly a musician she doesn't want me to hurt my hands . 2
RedRobin Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 The desire to work less and chat more cuts across both genders among millennials. I know of three young women... daughters of friends... who show little or no desire to get driver's licenses. Two of them are over 20. I attribute both to 'helicopter parents' who coddle their kiddos excessively. The guilt of divorced parents also often ends up in a 'battle' to see who gets liked more... not who parents better with the long term in mind. Pair that with an educational system that has practically optimized the elimination of all creative endeavor and thought in the form of standardized tests and robot teaching... and... This is what you get. Young men AND women who can't do a GD thing for themselves. Not physically, emotionally, or intellectually self-sufficient. Nothing to do with gender. 5
aussietigerwolf Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Who said he had to turn into a destroyed crybaby? But acting uncaring and emotionless is going to destroy any relationship. Emotions don't make people weak, just human. Thats just dumb.... So a guy basically has to fall apart and turn into a babbling little crybaby for it to have "meant anything"?? You have no idea what type of pain he might be feeling, just because he chooses to handle it internally...It could be ripping him to shreds..To just make the assumption that the relationship was meaningless because he didnt fall apart over it is ridiculous.... .02 TFY 1
Got it Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 I think you need to go back to school... 40/hr...multiplied by 40/hr work week is 1600....times 52=$$83,200... Add in O/T and everyone makes more than 100K Still want that entry level Dilbert job??? And I am a the dope?? TFY I never called you a dope. I said you were being asinine. And yes, my apologies, I multiplied 1080 instead of 2080. But in regards to why you can't find female workers, though your rant is equally about younger male workers, I addressed that in my prior posts. It seems you have a very specific criteria of candidates and will continue to struggle to fill positions because, regardless of pay, it is not enough to overcome the limitations. It may be quite elementary to you but obvious your potential workforce does not agree. So you/industry may have "jumped the shark" but are not realizing/accepting it. I think with the drawing back into urban areas, work/life balance, etc. younger generations are showing to be more about things outside of work than allowing work to just define them. I think one has to look at Generation X, Millenniums, and more recent generations to address why that is. Even in our industry, we are changing how we are recruiting for positions which used to appeal and be geared towards younger workers. I think you also see many young people who do not work during their teen years. Parents are not making the kids have jobs and many are pursuing other avenues like internships, non paying positions, and sports. Again, how children/young adults behave is tied directly to how they are raised. So the questions posed should be addressing the parents not the kids.
thefooloftheyear Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 I never called you a dope. I said you were being asinine. And yes, my apologies, I multiplied 1080 instead of 2080. But in regards to why you can't find female workers, though your rant is equally about younger male workers, I addressed that in my prior posts. It seems you have a very specific criteria of candidates and will continue to struggle to fill positions because, regardless of pay, it is not enough to overcome the limitations. It may be quite elementary to you but obvious your potential workforce does not agree. So you/industry may have "jumped the shark" but are not realizing/accepting it. I think with the drawing back into urban areas, work/life balance, etc. younger generations are showing to be more about things outside of work than allowing work to just define them. I think one has to look at Generation X, Millenniums, and more recent generations to address why that is. Even in our industry, we are changing how we are recruiting for positions which used to appeal and be geared towards younger workers. I think you also see many young people who do not work during their teen years. Parents are not making the kids have jobs and many are pursuing other avenues like internships, non paying positions, and sports. Again, how children/young adults behave is tied directly to how they are raised. So the questions posed should be addressing the parents not the kids. Ok, fine....and my apologies for being snarky... I guess its kinda hard to for me to try to reason with all of this...There are guys that would give a bodypart(or they say), to make 100K+/yr and cry all the time that they are broke....yet industries like mine, which are flush with business(heck, I NEVER slow down-not even when the banking/real estate crisis looked like it was going to put the average Joe on the bread line), cannot fill 100K+ positions...Or we wind up with a bunch of whining, Prima-Donna crybabies.. I agree that its important to show kids the value of work and how to survive in this world at an early age.. IME, many younger guys now want no part of committment(that includes marriage, job, home ownership, kids, etc)..They are completely happy with being their girlfriends/wives "b!tch" -for lack of a better word..And really dont feel the need to make their own way as a man..(arguably thats maybe a bad choice for characterizing, but I need to get the day going here). It wasnt always this way...And I really can't figure it out..But maybe its what the premise of the OP was in the first place??.....I dunno... Enjoy your day/holiday.. TFY
Keenly Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Ha ha, i am nearly 39, as a man who worked in an office years ago, hated it, much rather prefer a job that requires some physical effort and helps me stay healthier and fitter. Even if it pays less. Office jobs can be incredibly entertaining. Two words... lien claimants. Those are absolutely hilarious.
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